The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Eternally Grateful]

So you and your fellow Once Saved Always Saved traveler gave two different explanations on this text.

Get your stories organized at the very least…

why don;t you prove us wrong, instead of mocking like you usually do.

Your pride is deep my friend. You throw your perfection in everyones face. then mock anyone who disagrees with you instead of looking at what is said.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus’ standard:

“go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11)

All born again Christians begin with no sin (1 John 1:9).

But you have the free will to return to your vomit (2 Peter 2:22) again and tread on your Savior (Hebrews 10:29) and mock God if you choose (Galatians 6:7).

If we say we have no sin, we are deceived.

Your not sinless my friend. You are decieved if you think you are. you are no better than the pharisee who pumped his chest. refusing to acknowledge his sin also. I do not know what sins you commit (except for sin of Pride I have witnessed since I first met you) but I do not need to know.. I just know what God says about those who claim to be without sin.

and you mock Gods standard by even insinuating you are.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He has not met God's perfect, holy standard (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10) and neither has anyone else except for Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 4:15)

What was it Jesus said

Why do you call me good. No one is good but God

I guess jesus did not get the memo that humans can be good

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"I see you" is a phrase used in the film Avatar, about seeing the individual within.

Jesus says many things that are emotional reality not factual reality.
To know someone factually you have had an exchange of information, an encounter.
To know someone emotionally is to have an emotional interplay of reactions and a communion at a deeper level.

The phrase
14 For many are invited, but few are chosen
Matt 22:14

I have heard this statement said many times, "I want God to speak to me"
They have the bible, but if the words are audibly spoken, suddenly it will take new meaning.

Or prophets who say "God loves you and wants to encourage you" is more authoritative than scripture though the words are the same.

Jesus said simply if people will not listen to scripture they will not listen to someone who rises from the dead.
The other way round to this, is people contradict scripture and love, they will contradict everything else.

So to say to believe Jesus and not follow Him is a mark of a believer is pure nonsense and only the spiritually blind would suggest such a thing.

God bless you

Faith produces works, amen

If we claim we trust someone. and never do anything they ask. Well it just proves our claim of having faith is flawed. we are decieved if we think we had faith in that person.

This was James message also.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

why don;t you prove us wrong

I did.

instead of mocking like you usually do.

I don’t do that. I only respond in kind when it’s cast upon me first.

You throw your perfection in everyones face

I throw the Bible in everyone’s faces. Call it what you will.

As for you, EG, I didn’t mock you. I only said that you and @mailmandan should get your rebuttals in order. You both offered a different take on one verse to make it not contradict Once Saved Always Saved.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If we say we have no sin, we are deceived.

Let’s find out who the “we” are (for the upteenth time):

“…if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:7-8)

If we say we have no sin before being cleansed by the blood of Christ we deceive ourselves.

Otherwise John contradicts himself in the next sentence!

Your not sinless my friend. You are decieved if you think you are.

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)

I have been cleansed from ALL unrighteousness. And I have crucified my flesh.

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24)

And without LUST sin cannot manifest itself because:

“…when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin…” (James 1:15)

you are no better than the pharisee who pumped his chest. refusing to acknowledge his sin also

I am.

Because I believe the gospel.

Many of the Pharisees did not.

you mock Gods standard by even insinuating you are.

What is insinuated here EG (since you are good at interpreting insinuations):

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2)

 

[Charlie24]

I did.



I don’t do that. I only respond in kind when it’s cast upon me first.



I throw the Bible in everyone’s faces. Call it what you will.

As for you, EG, I didn’t mock you. I only said that you and @mailmandan should get your rebuttals in order. You both offered a different take on one verse to make it not contradict Once Saved Always Saved.

You should be able to see why many are upset with you!

Phil. 3:12-13

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,"

If Paul didn't claim sinless perfection, how do you think you can?

My friend, you are grossly misinterpreting scripture!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You should be able to see why many are upset with you!

I do.

It’s because a lot of folks here keep sinning and I preach holiness with scriptural backing.

Phil. 3:12-13

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after

I don’t assume perfection. What I do in life outside of defending the truth I keep to myself and the Lord.

I only defend the truth. You then accuse me of outrageous things when the Bible says the same things.

If Paul didn't claim sinless perfection, how do you think you can?

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” (Matthew 19:21)

“…brethren… Be perfect” (2 Corinthians 13:11)

“Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.” (Philippians 3:15)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did.

No you did not. all you did was say we need to get our stories straight.

I don’t do that. I only respond in kind when it’s cast upon me first.

I did not mock you my friend. I gave how I saw that passage interpreted.

I throw the Bible in everyone’s faces. Call it what you will.

I call it arrogance of the 1st degree when you throw it in peoples faces instead of just discussing it.

when either side does that. They are both have serious pride issues.

As for you, EG, I didn’t mock you. I only said that you and @mailmandan should get your rebuttals in order. You both offered a different take on one verse to make it not contradict Once Saved Always Saved.

when you did not answer my response. but just made a strawman. it is called mocking

Own up to it man..

but I understand, You think you are sinless. so you can not admit to the fact you may have sinned against 2 people.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I call it arrogance of the 1st degree when you throw it in peoples faces instead of just discussing it.

Oh my.

Was Moses arrogant:

“These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.” (Exodus 19:6-7)

 

[mailmandan]

“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20)

Now Christ moves from ONE particular group (false prophets) to a general group (off every kind, not just false prophets):

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:21-27)

What else do you got in your Once Saved Always Saved bag of tricks @mailmandan ?

I see that you are only concerned in keeping with your anti-OSAS narrative.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works through your components. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" setting out to do things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone as evidenced by authentic Christianity. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness as evidenced by false religions and cults.

*Only those who truly believe in Christ are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus, perverts the gospel and acts on their own self-righteous works system and confuses that with properly hearing and doing/acting on the words of Jesus.

 

[Charlie24]

I do.

It’s because a lot of folks here keep sinning and I preach holiness with scriptural backing.



I don’t assume perfection. What I do in life outside of defending the truth I keep to myself and the Lord.

I only defend the truth. You then accuse me of outrageous things when the Bible says the same things.



“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” (Matthew 19:21)

“…brethren… Be perfect” (2 Corinthians 13:11)

“Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.” (Philippians 3:15)

So you don't claim that you have stopped sinning altogether?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@mailmandan , I’ll leave you with the last word in this matter. Let the reader decide for themselves.

It’s just a family fight.

Be blessed @mailmandan

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let’s find out who the “we” are (for the upteenth time):

If I say "we went to the market. I am including myself

If I say WE went to church. I am including myself

If I say if we need to get our finances together, I am including myself

there is NO situation that the word WE is used where it does not include myself

If I say, If we claim to have no sin, we deceive ourselves.

1. John is talking present tense
2. John includes himself

You can spin it until your blue in the face. you can post 1000 bible passages to try to twist Johns words.

The fact that John said we and did not include himself is unobtainable

spin away my friend..

Your just hurting yourself

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh my.

Was Moses arrogant:

“These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.” (Exodus 19:6-7)

so now your trying to equate yourself with Moses.

Moses did not twist Gods words. He spoke them

 

[Michiah-Imla]

so now your trying to equate yourself with Moses.

I did not equate myself with him, but Moses was just a man like you and me and the prophets, right?

“Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.” (James 5:10)

“Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are…” (James 5:17)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Moses did not twist Gods words. He spoke them

Let the non-sectarian reader decide who’s doing the twisting here…

 

[Taken]

Many Christians today believe in in Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.
They think that all you need is a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior and your good to go to enter Heaven.

Scripture teaches (without your words, perpetual belief alone in salvation-ism) an enduring belief to the day they physically die;
in God and Jesus, and that Jesus died and rose again, that they WILL BE saved; Which IS true.

1 Thes 4: identifies:
“Others”, with no hope of salvation. Die not believing, no salvation.

“Others”, hope of salvation. Die believing in God, Jesus, and that Jesus died and rose again, God shall save. Raise up, after 1,000 yr. reign.

“In Christ”, believers, already crucified, dead with Jesus. Lord raises up, pretrib, they return with the Lord, reign with Christ, during 1,000 yr.


1 Thes 4;
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did not equate myself with him, but Moses was just a man like you and me and the prophets, right?

Moses was a prophet who spoke Gods word.

Your not

“Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.” (James 5:10)

“Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are…” (James 5:17)

You have to correctly interpret the word first before you can claim to be a spokesman..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let the non-sectarian reader decide who’s doing the twisting here…

they have been doing that since we have been here