The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Taken]

There are other believers like me even in this thread who have a problem with Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism. Just look at the likes on my OP, as well. So what you say does not make sense, my friend.

Edited my post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God accepts Christ's blood and death to accept you., and nothing else... John 14:6
If someone who does not accept that writes Threads and posts that prove it, then ......... they have an issue with God's Salvation.

See, Salvation is not Christ's Cross + your help
And everything that you try to do to stay saved or be saved, that is not simple FAITH in CHRIST that God accepts to save you, is a lie if its taught as anything to do with Salvation.

Reader, do this...
Put your bible knowledge away.

Now...pretend there is no Bible.

Its just you,... a lost sinner......hellbound.
You have not been taught any theology.
You are just LOST, and want to go to heaven.
How do you do it?

= THE CROSS OF CHRIST.

Can you see it?
= There is your Salvation, as that is the ONLY Salvation that God has created to accept you.
Go there, and He will.

See, the issue with too much theology, is that it can ruin simple faith in Christ as proven by about 98% of the legalism/ self saving/ broken faith theology that pollutes all "christian' Forums, and most denominations.

So you are asking people to not use their Bible? Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works (2 Timothy 3:16-17). We are born again when we first hear (obey) the words of Scripture.

1 Peter 1:23
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul was rebuking them for letting others come in with more than Christ Jesus.

I believe the Bible teaches two aspects of salvation (we need to be concerned about).

#1. Saved by God’s grace through faith without works (Initial Salvation) (Ephesians 2:8-9).
#2. Sanctification of the Holy Spirit to live a holy life and be fruitful (Secondary Aspect of Salvation) (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Romans 8:13).

Yes, I agree we are saved INITIALLY by God’s grace through faith without works.
I don’t believe we have to be water baptized or circumcised, or to do any particular major work to be first saved by Jesus.

To be initially saved: A person first believes the gospel message in that Christ died for their sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). They also can call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and seek forgiveness of their past life of sin with Him, as well (Romans 10:9) (Romans 10:12-13). A person can ask Christ into their life (i.e. receive Him) (John 1:12). These are things that are not of works because we are simply believing and throwing ourselves down upon the mercy of the LORD.

But after we are saved by God’s grace, I believe we do have to enter the Sanctification Process and live a holy life and be fruitful as a part of salvation (i.e. as a part of the removal of the penalty of sin).

Paul brings up circumcision several times whenever he condemns the Law or works. He also brings up with the Galatian believers in how they keep days, months, etcetera. This would be the festivals or holy days or sabbaths. Circumcision and the keeping of holy days was a part of the 613 Laws of Moses. So this was what Paul was condemning when he said we are not saved by works or the Law (When he spoke of being saved in our Initial Salvation). Christians are not under the Old Law or the 613 Laws of Moses (even though certain moral laws have carried over or have been repeated in the many Laws of Christ in the New Testament).

If we let more from man come into how or what we think and believe, then whom do we belong to ?

Too many ppl do NOT know about sanctification, for it is seldom taught. Too many others do not care for a WORK IN PROGRESS bibical instruction.

Jesus said " sanctify them by thy TRUTH, thy WORD is truth.

Ppl c/p or use anothers commentary as their own bc they lack taking up the sword and letting it do Gods work !

I agree.

Blessings be unto you in the Lord Jesus.

 

[Taken]

.
.Since He knows when our probation will end, I don't believe God erases and rewrites our names in the book of life over and over. That just seems silly to me. :)
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If we listen carefully there are:
“BOOKS”. Attributed to men.
“BOOKS”, Attributed to God.
“BOOKS”, Attributed to the Lamb of God.

The BOOK of Life from the beginning (I believe is Gods Book of Life), that ALL humans born have their name recorded; AND SUBJECT to being BLOTTED OUT.

The BOOK of Life DURING a mans physical life to the end of his life, who believes IN the Lamb of God (I believe is the Lambs’ Book of Life), and ONCE a name IS Entered into THAT BOOK, that NAME can never be blotted out.

Agree NO writing of a mans name in a book, blotted out, and then rewritten in that book.

 

[Behold]

So you are asking people to not use their Bible? ”

Listen carefully..
Before there was a BIBLE that you twisted into your self saving legalism that you endlessly post ...... there were preachers, the Apostles, namely Paul.
He had no NT, and the Cross of Christ was not in the TORAH, except by prophecy.
Got that, bible-highligher?


So, the preaching of the CROSS didn't need a bible.

The Bible, this blessed book = is the bane of religious people who have no idea what the Blood Atonement is all about, and could not care less.
And to prove they know nothing about it, they endlessly talk about commandment keeping and doing works of self effort to try to go to heaven.
You know that very well, according to 90% of your Posts.

 

[BarneyFife]

So you actually believe in OSAS then.

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Could this question have come about because of my following remarks?

m

What kind of transformation are we talking about?

Once and done?

Because that hasn't worked for me at all.

m
m
However you wish to narrowly view what I say will, of course, be up to you.

But I believe it is unwise to pare down Scripture into canned doctrines, if at all avoidable.

I believe everything the Bible says about salvation.

To say that this could be reduced to "OSAS" would be wildly inaccurate.

It seems to me that I must surely have made that clear by now.

Is there some game afoot that I should know about?
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[Michiah-Imla]

The Bible, this blessed book = is the bane of religious people who have no idea what the Blood Atonement is all about

they endlessly talk about commandment keeping and doing works of self effort to try to go to heaven.

“If ye love me, keep my commandments.” (John 14:15)

I will go with Christ on this…

Thanks!

 

[BarneyFife]

Listen carefully..
Before there was a BIBLE that you twisted into your self saving legalism that you endlessly post ...... there were preachers, the Apostles, namely Paul.
He had no NT, and the Cross of Christ was not in the TORAH, except by prophecy.
Got that, bible-highligher?


So, the preaching of the CROSS didn't need a bible.

The Bible, this blessed book = is the bane of religious people who have no idea what the Blood Atonement is all about, and could not care less.
And to prove they know nothing about it, they endlessly talk about commandment keeping and doing works of self effort to try to go to heaven.
You know that very well, according to 99% of your Posts.
Believe it.

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I'm experiencing some confusion here, Brother B.

When Paul said "All Scripture is..."

What did he mean, exactly?
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[Taken]

There are other believers like me even in this thread who have a problem with Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism. Just look at the likes on my OP, as well. So what you say does not make sense, my friend.

What does not make sense?

Salvation is a promised Gift.
The Gift is Given, Once the requirement to Receive the Gift is Fulfilled.
What is The Requirement that must be Fulfilled?

* Belief IN God AND Christ Jesus on they day of a mans BODILY Death.
* Once the Gift is Given by God and Received by the man...
The Gift IS NEVER Revoked.

A Man Fulfills the Requirement in ONE of TWO WAYS...
1) Bodily crucified with Christ Jesus; Receives Salvation Then.
......IS Saved.
2) Waits until Physical Bodily Death...Receives Salvation Then.
.....SHALL be Saved.

When a man freely chooses to Receive his Promised Gift, is entirely up to the freewill of the individual man.

When a man DOES Receive his Promised Gift of Salvation, he is Saved Once and Forever....the whole inanutshell meaning of OSAS.
(ONCE being the KEY WORD, of having RECEIVED, and not subject to revocation.)

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Mark 16:
[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

AND FYI:
2 Ezra 8:
[3] There be many created, but few shall be saved.



Make sense to you now?

 

[Behold]

“If ye love me, keep my commandments.” (John 14:15)

I will go with Christ on this…

Thanks!

Notice it does not say..>"if you keep my commandments you will go to heaven".

See that yet?
Apparently not.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Notice it does not say..>"if you keep my commandments you will go to heaven".
See that yet?

“He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings” (John 14:24)

See that?

A hater of Christ will not enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Some try to twist Revelation 3:5 to say that it is not referring to spiritual death.

However, people just fail to read and believe the context if they believe Revelation 3:5 is dealing with physical death only.

The whole context is dealing with how this church is spiritually dead.
They live physically, but they are dead spiritually. That is the starting of the context (with verse 1).

Revelation 3:1-6
1 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”

In this passage we see how Jesus will confess the one who overcomes to the Father.

We see a similar thing in Matthew 10.

Matthew 10:32-33
32 “Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”

Again, sounds like a salvation issue here because the contrast of confessing Him before men is denying Jesus before men and if that is the case, Jesus will deny that person before the Father. It does not sound like one is saved if Jesus denies a person before the Father. But I am sure Belief Alone Salvationists have found a way to change this passage beyond what it says plainly.

 

[Behold]

“He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings” (John 14:24)
See that?
A hater of Christ will not enter the kingdom of God.

Are you a hater of Christ?

So, the thing is....if you keep the sayings of Jesus, but are never born again, you get to hear this.. after you die.. "depart from me, i never knew you".
See, for God to "KNOW" you, is not to keep sayings or to give to the poor or talk about commandments and works on a Forum.
Its to become a SON of God....and you do not become one by "keeping sayings".
You become one by becoming born again.

 

[Behold]

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I'm experiencing some confusion here, Brother B.
When Paul said "All Scripture is..."
What did he mean, exactly?
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All scripture is 'given".
Then it has to be "spiritually discerned" so that it can be understood as "instruction" or "doctrine". or "correction", or "reproof".

When its not "rightly divided" you find people trying to work their way into heaven.
You find people trusting in WATER.
You find people talking about keeping commandments to try to go to heaven because they can READ them and they can cut and paste them.... but they can't DISCERN the Scriptures.

So, all scripture is given, but if its not understood, by spiritual discernment, all you end up with are opinions regarding Salvation, that have nothing to do with it., and every opinion is a carnal mind, and never a spiritual discernment.

 

[Taken]

@Bible Highlighter

Salvation is a promised Gift.
The Gift is Given, Once the requirement to Receive the Gift is Fulfilled.
What is The Requirement that must be Fulfilled?

* Belief IN God AND Christ Jesus on they day of a mans BODILY Death.
* Once the Gift is Given by God and Received by the man...
The Gift IS NEVER Revoked.

A Man Fulfills the Requirement in ONE of TWO WAYS...
1) Bodily crucified with Christ Jesus; Receives Salvation Then.
......IS Saved.
2) Waits until Physical Bodily Death...Receives Salvation Then.
.....SHALL be Saved.

When a man freely chooses to Receive his Promised Gift, is entirely up to the freewill of the individual man.

When a man DOES Receive his Promised Gift of Salvation, he is Saved Once and Forever....the whole inanutshell meaning of OSAS.
(ONCE being the KEY WORD, of having RECEIVED, and not subject to revocation.)

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Mark 16:
[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

AND FYI:
2 Ezra 8:
[3] There be many created, but few shall be saved.



Make sense to you now?

@Bible Highlighter
?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Are you a hater of Christ?

No.

I keep his commandments/sayings since I’ve been born again.

if you keep the sayings of Jesus, but are never born again, you get to hear this.. after you die.. "depart from me, i never knew you".

I know.

See, for God to "KNOW" you, is not to keep sayings

Are you aware how heretical you sound?

“…ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:2)

Paul preached the sayings of God!

“…the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37)

 

[Renniks]

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Could this question have come about because of my following remarks?

m
m
m
However you wish to narrowly view what I say will, of course, be up to you.

But I believe it is unwise to pare down Scripture into canned doctrines, if at all avoidable.

I believe everything the Bible says about salvation.

To say that this could be reduced to "OSAS" would be wildly inaccurate.

It seems to me that I must surely have made that clear by now.

Is there some game afoot that I should know about?
.
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You are diverting. That tells me all I need to know, thanks!

 

[BarneyFife]

You are diverting. That tells me all I need to know, thanks!

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You're asking questions I've already answered.

That tells me you're trying to bait me.

It was dark outside when I was born but it wasn't last night.

You're more than welcome!
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[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Many people either believe in one wrong extreme or the other. Some believe it is all a belief alone in Jesus and or the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that saves and that is all we have to do to be saved forever (i.e. Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism). Others wrongfully make it all about works to a point about how we are even saved by works in our Initial Salvation (i.e. Works ALONE Salvationism). This is also false. They think we have to be water baptized to be initially saved (Making it all about works and no grace ever).

We need a healthy balance between being saved by God’s grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-9), and God having chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Some misread the words of Paul like in 1 Corinthians 1:18 as if he was teaching Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism. But if they were to keep reading Paul, he teaches that one can deny the faith and be worse than infidel by not providing for one’s own (See: 1 Timothy 5:8). Paul says if we live after the flesh (sin), we will die (die spiritually), but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, we will live (live eternally) (Romans 8:13). 1 Corinthians 1:18 is dealing with Initial Salvation because generally a person must receive the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 to gain access to the Kingdom. Paul spoke negatively of the Law and works in regards to it replacing being saved Initially by God’s grace. The problem of circumcision for salvation was a heresy that was going around during that time period (See: Acts 15:1).

Belief Alone Salvationists also fail to understand that believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus Christ for salvation but it is also believing in everything He taught said, and did. We also have to keep His words in order to never die. John 8:51 says, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”. So the Belief Alone Salvationist is not believing the whole counsel of God’s Word (pure and simple). They are only reading and believing verses out of context to the rest of God’s Word.

Also, while gifts are free, gifts can also be lost and or forfeited by the person if they don’t take care of those gifts. If somebody gave you a car, that does not mean you cannot lose your car by irresponsible with it.

 

[BarneyFife]

All scripture is 'given".
Then it has to be "spiritually discerned" so that it can be understood as "instruction" or "doctrine". or "correction", or "reproof".

When its not "rightly divided" you find people trying to work their way into heaven.
You find people trusting in WATER.
You find people talking about keeping commandments to try to go to heaven because they can READ them and they can cut and paste them.... but they can't DISCERN the Scriptures.

So, all scripture is given, but if its not understood, by spiritual discernment, all you end up with are opinions regarding Salvation, that have nothing to do with it., and every opinion is a carnal mind, and never a spiritual discernment.

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Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough.

You say there was no Bible before the NT of the apostles because you somehow disqualify the Old Testament, being that it's only prophecy, with regards to the atonement.

So exactly what Scripture is it that Paul was saying is inspired, profitable, etc.?

Basically, what I'm saying is that the following remarks are problematic, at best:

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.

Listen carefully..
Before there was a BIBLE that you twisted into your self saving legalism that you endlessly post ...... there were preachers, the Apostles, namely Paul.
He had no NT, and the Cross of Christ was not in the TORAH, except by prophecy.
Got that, bible-highligher?


So, the preaching of the CROSS didn't need a bible.

The Bible, this blessed book = is the bane of religious people who have no idea what the Blood Atonement is all about, and could not care less.
And to prove they know nothing about it, they endlessly talk about commandment keeping and doing works of self effort to try to go to heaven.
You know that very well, according to 90% of your Posts.

.
.

What of this, then?

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All
Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.

And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up: and, as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written,

The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

And He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him. And He began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.​

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