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The Prophetic Word

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Keraz, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Bible prophecy is a very controversial subject and not easy to understand.
    1 Corinthians 14:22b says that prophecy is intended to inform Christian believers.

    But the many and varied discussions, theories and doctrines point up the disturbing fact of how we Christians often have opposing views of what God has planned for our future.
    There is only one sequence, one Plan that will actually unfold and that could be quite soon. So one view is right and all the rest are wrong.
    Basically; we can say that the right way, is the one that conforms to scripture. But as Isaiah 28:13 says about prophecy: Here a little, there a little..... making it difficult to work out a correct sequence.

    Revelation does give us that in the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls, then the glorious Return of Jesus and after He has reigned for a 1000 years comes the final Judgement, then Eternity.
    Revelation also is the only Book that warns us to not mess around with it. Revelation 22:18-19

    What is described in the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, are things that can and will be literally fulfilled. [Allowing for the few metaphorical descriptions; like locusts in Rev 9:7]
    So; with the Seals, we are told that when Jesus ascended to heaven, He was found worthy to open the Seals and He commenced to do so. Revelation 6:1
    It should be clear to all that the first five Seals are open. We HAVE had wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters aplenty and the proof is the Fifth Seal, where the souls of all the Christian martyrs since Stephen are kept under the heavenly Altar. Revelation 6:9-11

    Therefore, the next prophesied event must be the Sixth Seal. Revelation 6:12-17

    We have been given plenty of warning and details about this sudden and shocking Day that the Lord will instigate. It will change the world and interestingly, Isaiah 29:23-24 says; Then the Lord's children, the work of His hands, [who are born again Christians] will praise Him for their protection and only then, will we all fully understand His plans and purposes.
    Ref: logostelos.info
     
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Actually, the kind of prophecy described in the gathering of believers is to express the will of God or His heart by the Spirit. The hidden things. By revelation. It isn't always telling the future in material terms and events. In fact that is much more rare.
     
  3. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    This is correct. Since the first century, from the OT prophets and the prophesies of Jesus and the Apostles, we have only those who prophecy to individuals or to Church groups. Those ancient prophets gave us all the information we know about our future.
    Unfortunately, many have chosen to believe false teachings, so as we are told in Isaiah 29:9-12, they are locked into those theories and wrong ideas and are incapable of understanding the true Prophetic Word. Isaiah 8:16, Jeremiah 6:10, +
     
  4. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Once again Keraz, you are wrongly teaching the time of the "day of the Lord". It only will occur on the day of Christ's return to end the "great tribulation" He warned of.

    Both Apostle Paul and Peter taught that the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night", pointing to the last day of this world with a "sudden destruction" and the burning of man's works off the surface of this earth by God's consuming fire (1 Thess.5 & 2 Pet.3:10). And our Lord Jesus said on sixth vial that He comes "as a thief", with the seventh vial being the battle of Armageddon when He comes with His army of Rev.19.
     
  5. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion, that I and many others disagree with. Why should Jesus devastate the world at His Return? The 3 plain prophesies that do tell us about that glorious Day are: Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11. None of them support your belief.

    It is evident that there are two separate ‘Days of the Lord’ in which the Lord acts to punish His enemies. The Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, is the next prophesied event that we can expect, of a worldwide judgement/punishment by fire from the sun, which will clear and cleanse His Land. Most clearly described in Isaiah 63:1-6 and Habakkuk 3:12Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.’
    This sudden and shocking event will 'come as a thief', unexpectedly. The Lord will not be seen on that Day: Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11

    Then, much later, at the Return of Jesus, is the Sixth and Seventh Bowl fulfilment, the great Day of the Sovereign Lord, when He disposes of the armies of the Anti Christ. The whole world will see Him.
     
  6. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Prophets and shepherds of the flock: Isaiah 4:16

    Jeremiah 23:1-2 Woe betide those shepherds who let My flock be scattered and lost. You have not watched over them, but I am watching you to punish you for your misdeeds.
    James 3:1, Ezekiel 34:7-10, Jeremiah 16:17, Jeremiah 10:21

    Jeremiah 23:3-4 I, Myself will gather the remnant of My sheep from all the lands to which I have dispersed them. I shall bring them back to their own Land, where they will be fruitful and increase. I will appoint shepherds, who will tend them and they will live in peace and security. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26

    This is the second Exodus, the gathering and resettling of those of His Christian people who are protected during this forthcoming fire judgement. The Lord will raise up righteous leaders for them. The Land will be fruitful and He will protect them from enemies.

    Ezekiel 36:8, Ezekiel 38:8b-9, Zechariah 10:8-10

    Jeremiah 23:5-6 The days are coming when a Righteous Branch will come from David’s line, a wise King, who will maintain justice. Judah and Israel will be kept safe and will live undisturbed in the Land.

    The ‘days are coming’, verses 5-6 refer to a later period, the Millennium reign of Jesus.

    Jeremiah 23:7-8 Therefore, the time is coming when people will no longer praise the Lord for bringing His people out of Egypt, but praise Him for gathering the descendants of the Israelites back from all the lands where He had dispersed them. They will again live on their own soil. [‘Therefore the time is coming’ means – therefore, before the Millennium the Lord will instigate the return of His people back into their inheritance.] Eze. 20:34

    Jeremiah 23:9-15 Of the prophets: I am weak because of the Lord’s Holy Words. For now, the Land is full of godless people, prophet and priest alike are godless and I see their evil deeds. I see things most horrible, adulterers and hypocrites, to Me all the inhabitants of Jerusalem are like Sodom and Gomorrah. Therefore, I shall bring disaster upon them on the Day of Reckoning. Ezekiel 22:26-28, Jeremiah 14:14-16, Jeremiah 10:18, Isaiah 22:14

    Jeremiah 23:16-17 Do not listen to what the so called prophets say, those who buoy you up with false hopes and give voice to their own fancies. It is not the Lord’s Words that they speak. They say to all who follow their false teachings: prosperity will be yours and no harm will befall you. Prosperity theology and rapture theories are the fancies and mistaken beliefs of many Christians today. Isaiah 50:10-11, Ezekiel 13:1-16, Jer.6:13-15

    Jeremiah 23:18 For which of them have stood in the counsel of the Lord and received His Word and taken heed of it, with obedience? Psalm 74:9 A serious indictment against those end time preachers, scholars and authors, who fail to properly discern and understand the prophetic Word, yet they promulgate and make money from their own theories, ideas and incorrect teachings. Psalms 50:16-19, Isaiah 30:10, Micah 3:5-7


    Jeremiah 23:19 See what a scorching wind goes out from the Lord, a furious whirlwind, that whirls around the heads of the wicked. A ‘scorching wind, a furious whirlwind’, is another description that fits a coronal mass ejection, the fire judgement that the Lord will use on His Day of vengeance and wrath. Psalms 18:7-18, Malachi 4:1

    Jeremiah 23:20 The Lord’s anger will not be turned aside until He has fully accomplished His purposes. In days to come, you will truly understand. Hosea 14:9, 2 Peter 1:19

    Jeremiah 23:21-22 I did not send these prophets, yet they go out with a message that is false. If only they proclaim My true message to My people and turn them from their evil ways!

    Jeremiah 23:23-24 Am I a God near at hand only – do I not fill heaven and earth? Can anyone hide in some secret place and I not see them? Amos 9:1

    Jeremiah 23:25-40…An indictment upon false teachers and prophets. Jeremiah 5:30-31, James 3:1

    Deuteronomy 32:28-29 You are a people devoid of understanding. If only you had the wisdom to discern what your end will be!
    Ref: REB some verses abridged.
     
  7. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Gnosticism
     
  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    2 Peter 3:10-12
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
    KJV


    Apostle Paul taught the same event on that "day of the Lord" in 1 Thess.5. He was pulling from the OT prophets, like Isaiah. Paul said when they shall say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them. That "sudden destruction" is the day of God's cup of wrath poured out on the last day of this world when Jesus returns. This consuming fire event is about God's Fire, not man's fire. It is going to melt the works of man off the surface of this earth, but not destroy the earth itself.

    That is the same "day of the Lord" at the start of Zechariah 14 that speaks of The LORD coming to do battle.

    Zech 14:1-2
    14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
    KJV

    That gathering of the nations against Jerusalem is what Jesus showed happens on the 6th Vial, and then the actual battle of Armageddon happens on the final 7th Vial. That's the same "sudden destruction" Paul preached on that day, and the day God's consuming fire will burn man's works off the earth, ushering everyone into the world to come, ending this present flesh earth age. Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 is the same event of Christ's coming on the 7th trumpet and 7th vial to gather His Church on the way to Jerusalem to do battle. He showed there that will happen at the AFTER the tribulation. Same with Rev.19, which Scripture shows the day of Jesus' coming with His resurrected saints, to do battle and start His everlasting reign over the nations.

    Those on a Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine from men also wrongly believe the "day of the Lord" begins when the tribulation begins. I thought you didn't believe their theories?

    The day of vengeance is the "day of the Lord". That is when God's final cup of wrath is poured out on the 7th vial. It is the wrath that Apostle Paul said those in Christ are not appointed to, which Pre-trib wrongly teaches we fly away to escape. But actually per God's Word, He showed how He will protect His Church still alive on earth when that consuming fire ends this present world. We don't have to leave this earth for it to not harm us.
     
  9. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    That these 'Days of the Lord' are different events, is easily ascertained by their descriptions and there placement in the Bible.
    You like to conflate them, but that is error, God does not 'consume the world' when Jesus Returns. That will happen to a degree at the Sixth Seat worldwide disaster, but the final New Heavens and new Earth will come after the Millennium.

    I believe that the end time events will soon commence and it will be as Jesus showed at His first Advent, when He quoted Isaiah 61:1-2a and said: Today this has come true.... The next, still to happen prophecy in Isaiah 61:2b; is the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath.
    Beware, the Lord is about to strip the earth and make it a waste...… Isaiah 24:1-12
     
  10. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    All I did was cite the start of Zechariah 14 about the day of the coming of The Lord Jesus. That's what the first part of Zechariah 14 is about. And linked to it as written there, is the "day of the Lord".

    So if you want to make up fibs and act like a little child as if your intelligence were insulted, then fine. It still won't change that Scripture as written like I showed.
     
  11. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    I will ignore your nasty insinuations. I'm glad to hear that you admit my intelligence.

    Zechariah 14:1-2 is plainly about the conquest of the holy people by the Anti-Christ, as described in Daniel 9:27, Rev 13:5-7.
    The actual Day of the Lord's Return happens after this, as Zechariah 14:3-11 plainly states. 42 months later; Rev 13:5
     
  12. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I find it strange that you appear to be anti-pre-trib rapture, yet you believe one of their false ideas that the "day of the Lord" starts with the great tribulation. Or maybe you do... believe in their 'fly away' pre-trib rapture theory after all?
     
  13. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Actually the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath against the nations, Joel 2:30-32, is not part of the GT, it will happen several years before that. It is the next prophesied event we can expect and no; there is no 'rapture to heaven' then, or at any time.
    This is the given sequence of Revelation, Isaiah 61, Psalms 83, etc, so saying the DoL's wrath comes at the Return, is error.
     
  14. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, God's Word teaches the "day of the Lord" is the destruction from God upon the earth to end this present world. It's what Isaiah and the Minor Prophets were shown, and that is where Apostle Paul and Peter, and our Lord Jesus were pulling from with the "as a thief" metaphor. In 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3, Paul said a "sudden destruction" happens upon those who say, "Peace and safety" on that day, and Jesus warned His Church on the 6th Vial that He comes "as a thief", with the next event there being the battle of Armageddon on the 7th Vial (Revelation 16:15-18).
     
  15. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath by fire from the sun, as is prophesied in over 100 Bible passages, will be devastating and will kill many people. Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, 2 Peter 3:7, +
    But it only lasts for one day, Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 29:5-6, Psalms 50:1-2, Revelation 18:8, and the world will recover from it. In order to re-establish order and control, a One World Govt will be formed, consisting of 10 world regions.
    But we Christians will be motivated to travel to and live in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 107

    The present earth continues on until the end of the Millennium. Only then does God make a New Heavens and a new earth, to remain for Eternity, Revelation 21 - 22
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I don't see that written in God's Word. The Scriptures that declare the "day of the Lord" declare a destruction from The Almighty upon the wicked, and those left of the nations that came up against Jerusalem are then shown having to come and worship from year to year, as per Zech.14. Peter showed that man's works are burned up on that day, so that means no more world government after that destruction (2 Pet.3:10-12).

    And since when is the sun God's consuming fire? There's no Biblical proof of that. In Rev.13 we are even shown the dragon being able to rain fire down from heaven.
     
  17. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    I gave a few of the many prophesies about that great and terrible Day. Isaiah 30:26a is plainly about a sun event.
    2 Peter 3:10-12 is prophecy about the New heavens and the new earth, AFTER the Millennium.
    I suggest that you study the Prophesies more closely and see how the Lord will use His creation to reset our civilization, as He did with Noah's flood. It is very close now to when the Lord will arise and destroy His enemies. Psalms 7:6-16, Isaiah 66:15-17,, Revelation 6:12-17
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  18. Wafer

    Wafer Active Member

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    If you want to know something about prophecy you go to the first occurrence in the bible.

    Matthew 1:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
    22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

    23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    The prophecy is in Isaiah 7 and refers only to immediate conditions, not predicting a savior. That is how God gets around an obvious problem: It is sometimes difficult for a prophecy to come true when the people involved know about the prophecy.

    We conclude that prophecy is whatever God says it is, and we are not authorized to guess beyond what we are told.
     
  19. Pre-Trib Rapper

    Pre-Trib Rapper Member

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    IMO, Jesus wants us to focus mainly on His appearing in the air (Pre-Trib Rapture) to snatch away all real Christians to Heaven. Those of us who have this blessed hope in us through faith, waiting and watching will receive the crown of righteousness for those who love His appearing.
     
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