The Rapture: Harmonizing differing viewpoints.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Justin Mangonel.

Hi Retro,

I absolutly believe that God speaks to us today if we will listen. I think it is not correct to think that God has just given us a set of priciples and expects us to make the best choices possible.

I believe we should live by revelation. And what is revealed to us is His will for us in any particular circumstance. Marriage is one of these very critical junctures in our lives and it is imperitive for us to know His will and to follow it in this choice.

You are preaching living by the knowledge of good. This kills just as surely as the knowledge of evil. God never meant for us to live by either one.

A great number of Christians are married to spouses whom God was never consulted about. Is God bound to bless that which He had no hand in chosing? No...plain and simple. This is a very hard truth but it is the way things actually are.

NO, SIR! You have a false view about God! Think about Howsheea` (Hosea) and his marriage to a prostitute! Did not God ORDER Howsheea` to marry her? Did not God encourage Howsheea` to take her back when she was destitute?

We may THINK that God would like us to marry someone who will give us years of relative bliss and painless life, but that is NOT true in most cases! It doesn't matter if the woman one marries is the biggest slut in school! As long as, once married, he is FAITHFUL TO HER! Oh, sure. There may be many hard times and challenges for them to go through, but God is all about overcoming the challenges! Growing in God's grace is a beautiful thing, especially if there are many things in the way for them to overcome! It shows off God's amazing power!

And, He certainly WILL bless those who remain faithful to their mates, which is a beautiful picture of what God did for Isra'el! IT IS NEVER RIGHT TO DIVORCE THE "WRONG ONE" IN FAVOR OF MARRYING THE "RIGHT ONE!" That is simply ADULTERY!!!

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear Retro,

Well, I must disagree with you. There is not virtue in staying is a relationship that may damage you for eternity. It does not bring God glory to have two people live together when their is not love relationship between them. It seems that you may know a bit about the Old Testament. Did not Nehemiah counsel a group of men to put away their wives?

Marriage is a love relationship. It exists when there is a certain level of love and commitment between a man and woman that warrants intimate repression. It is not a legal document. Where there is not hat level of love between a man and a woman God does not does not consider them married even if the have a certificate. Marriage was made for man and not man for marriage. If that which was intended to be a blessing becomes a cursing then the very reason for it is destroyed.

For further insight on this subject I suggest reading "Generations: Children of God"

 

[Foreigner]

Dear Retro,

Well, I must disagree with you. There is not virtue in staying is a relationship that may damage you for eternity. It does not bring God glory to have two people live together when their is not love relationship between them. It seems that you may know a bit about the Old Testament. Did not Nehemiah counsel a group of men to put away their wives?

Marriage is a love relationship. It exists when there is a certain level of love and commitment between a man and woman that warrants intimate repression. It is not a legal document. Where there is not hat level of love between a man and a woman God does not does not consider them married even if the have a certificate. Marriage was made for man and not man for marriage. If that which was intended to be a blessing becomes a cursing then the very reason for it is destroyed.

For further insight on this subject I suggest reading "Generations: Children of God"

-- Justin, your opinion goes against the very Word of God.

And using the excuse that you could be "staying in a relationship that could damage you for all eternity" completely ignores the fact that God can miraculously address any issue within any relationship if you first seek Him in the matter, then trust Him in the matter.

Retro is correct in what he has shared.

Either God's Word is binding and obligatory or it is not. There is no 'option B'

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hello Stranger in a strange land,

You know I very much believe that God's word is sure and changes not. Yet I am also sure that man's dogma is neither binding nor obligatory.

Many people are not very schooled in the word and simply have accepted a set of basic doctrines from whichever church they belong to. They never examine the foundations of their faith because they are taught not to question what their leaders have said. In fact, not only do the defend what they have been taught with unreasoned zeal but they dispise others who dare to question what they believe.

Oviously, the emporer has no clothes...I am just not afriad to say it. The normative church is a shambles. It is not defensable nor is it's doctrine becasue what they believe has not brought about what they say it will. This means that they are in error. I want to find the error and figure out what is the truth so that i can live the life that Christ promised we would have if we abide in Him.

I am going to climb out of this lobster pot if it is the last thing I do. Nothing is beyond examination. Nothing is inviolate becasue we have gotten something so wrong that we are but a shadow of a shadow of what we read the original church was like in the book of Acts.

In fact, here is the shocking truth of the matter,

Almost every doctrine of the church is either partially or wholly in error.​

Take for instance, something as plain as salvation. Christians are walking around saying that they are born again when that is not really true. The only one that is truly born again is Jesus becasue He was both resurrected and glorified. The truth is that we are born once into this world through the will of the flesh and that we are born again into the next world, i.e. the New Heavens and New Earth through the will of the spirit. Even something as basic as being saved is not generally understood and the list goes on from there.

There are very few seekers of truth but rather most are defenders of doctrine that they have niether examined nor fully understood. Most people who believe in the Trinity have never even read the creed upon which it is based yet they defend it tooth and nail.

False doctrine is merely an indication of how far we are from God. It is the same situaiton that prevailed before the first coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We are so far away from God that if He showed up today we would reject Him just as the religeious establishment did in the first century.

The reason that people cannot understand the things of God is that they do not have ears to hear or eyes to see. We have become dull of spirit until what God says to us seems like false doctrine. We need to stop defending things that are not defensalbe.

You confidently assert that I should not say that it is not wise to stay in a relationship that can damage you for all eternity. God can address the issue. Perhaps you are saying this because your doctrine says there should be no divorce save for adultry or fornication. So, completely ignoring that your position does not hold true for over fifty percent of Chrisitan marriages, you say that I am wrong. On the other hand, recognizing that something is really wrong with Christian marriage, i offer another way of looking at things that does give a reason for the high divorce rate.

The fundimental error that people ignore is that God is not obligated to bless that what He does not author. What needs to happen is that the basic way we approuch marriage must change. Marriage should be only entered into when and if God gives His clear direction to do so. God should select our mates and we should trust His choices. Only in this way will the fundimental dynamic of marriage change for the better.

The basic error in what you say about marraige is that it does not work in the broad scope of the problem. Yes, here and there people experience healing and restoration but that is a very small percentage compared to the whole of the problem.. Until we come to a place where we will admit that basic fact there is no room for the truth.

 

[tgwprophet]

Justin Mangonel wrote:
" In the beginning God had an original plan for mankind that did not include sin. Had Satan not introduced his sin from outside the perfect system God had created Adam and his decedents would have taken a much different path. Here is a truth, "

This would mean you do not believe God knew the end before the beginning, a common concept. As i have pondered the idea that God knew what Satan would do and God expected him to do exactly what he has done and will do... I gave creedence to the validity that God's design is what has ocurred. This is the rightful way to true Free Will that God wanted us to have. For when we excersize true free will then our acceptance of God and Jesus is pure, completely.

and wrote: " What we term as the rapture is just God's way of moving people around "
Quit!
"
and wrote: " Originally, God determined that man should live forever if he ate of the tree of life. "
Surely you jest... we are eternal, just not our current physical bodies.

and wrote: Almost every doctrine of the church is either partially or wholly in error.

Certainly most of the Chritian Church doctirnes are correct.... the erroneous doctrines are those following a false god or even Satan. OR the opposite would be trueand Satan's doctrines would be more correct...

Ok I can't take no more of this...unless it is the humor thread Good Luck Foreigner and Retrobyter It sounds like he learned this in school, came out of school, taught what he learned in school: which is... that school is wrong...

Martin wrote: " It's one thing to know knowledge and another to experience it, that's one thing you would agree with. I may know my wife to the best of my ability, " -- good point Martin - But not applicable to God who created time... For without time... everything is... present.