I'm sorry. Concerning salvation, I missed the part that I had to completly understand everything in the Scriptures.
The Rapture
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Agreed with Kriss.Matthew 24:5 - For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.Matthew 24:11 - And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.Matthew 24:23 - Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.Matthew 24:26 - Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.Matthew 24:12 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
I have done extensive study on this subject with my Bible, online sources ,printed sources and human sources. I have yet to find anyone I know who accepts anything other than a pre-trib rapture. I have consulted with numerous Pastors who beleive pre-trib rapture and have yet to find one who thinks otherwise. I have seen stats where 85% of churches preach pre-trib rapture. I just have a hard time believing that they are all wrong and a handfull of you are right. Are you saying that all the millions of pre-trib thinking Christians will not be saved?
(DONNIE;49994)
I have done extensive study on this subject with my Bible, online sources ,printed sources and human sources. I have yet to find anyone I know who accepts anything other than a pre-trib rapture. I have consulted with numerous Pastors who beleive pre-trib rapture and have yet to find one who thinks otherwise. I have seen stats where 85% of churches preach pre-trib rapture. I just have a hard time believing that they are all wrong and a handfull of you are right. Are you saying that all the millions of pre-trib thinking Christians will not be saved?
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.Those are Christ's words before He died on the cross to die for our sins...if you disagree with Christ who is God...then go follow men and take it up to Him on Judgement Day...
I have done extensive study on this subject with my Bible, online sources ,printed sources and human sources. I have yet to find anyone I know who accepts anything other than a pre-trib rapture. I have consulted with numerous Pastors who beleive pre-trib rapture and have yet to find one who thinks otherwise. I have seen stats where 85% of churches preach pre-trib rapture. I just have a hard time believing that they are all wrong and a handfull of you are right. Are you saying that all the millions of pre-trib thinking Christians will not be saved?
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.Those are Christ's words before He died on the cross to die for our sins...if you disagree with Christ who is God...then go follow men and take it up to Him on Judgement Day...
I understand this dilema Donnie the problem is where did all this come from it was men in 1830 following the visions of a girl who later went insane it was picked up by Darby and then scofield and spread our greart grandparents were not taught this its a mans teaching its not Gods Wordsare these preachers churches all purposely misleading their flocks ?No they were all taught this in school if you do not follow this doctrine you are denied a T.V, ministry you are ostersized in the religious comunity. Remember church is a business money is the bottom line. true they think they are earning their money in doing good. but money still rules.Just 40 years ago there was not one belief in Rapture there was pre,mid,post and No rapture it was an organized move to make pre-trib the current doctrine. It had nothing to do with Gods Word. Many teach it out of peer pressure many just ignorantly believe it reguardless it is not in Gods Word.thats why its still called a "theroy" it comes down to Amos 8:11So the only question one must answer for themselfs is are you going to follow Gods Words or Mens.
I really don't think my salvation is at risk if i don't interpret a passage the same way you do. God only gives good gifts to his children and suffering the wrath of tribulation does not sound like a good gift. To say we will endure that wrath says that Jesus didn't pay for it all on the cross.
(DONNIE;49998)
I really don't think my salvation is at risk if i don't interpret a passage the same way you do. God only gives good gifts to his children and suffering the wrath of tribulation does not sound like a good gift. To say we will endure that wrath says that Jesus didn't pay for it all on the cross.
Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.Just because we're Christians doesn't mean Satan can not deceive Christians to get into his wicked camp.
I really don't think my salvation is at risk if i don't interpret a passage the same way you do. God only gives good gifts to his children and suffering the wrath of tribulation does not sound like a good gift. To say we will endure that wrath says that Jesus didn't pay for it all on the cross.
Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.Just because we're Christians doesn't mean Satan can not deceive Christians to get into his wicked camp.
(DONNIE;49998)
I really don't think my salvation is at risk if i don't interpret a passage the same way you do. God only gives good gifts to his children and suffering the wrath of tribulation does not sound like a good gift. To say we will endure that wrath says that Jesus didn't pay for it all on the cross.
It just depends on where you look Donnie you have to compare the scriptures for yourself and pray for knowlegde. there are many that will tell you the truth. If you are willing to have eyes to seeProverbs 10:30 says "The righteous shall (((((never))))) be removed: but the wicked shall (((not))) inhabit the earth."http://www.nopretribrapture.org/http://www.mindspring.com/~anthonybuzzard/trib.htm
I really don't think my salvation is at risk if i don't interpret a passage the same way you do. God only gives good gifts to his children and suffering the wrath of tribulation does not sound like a good gift. To say we will endure that wrath says that Jesus didn't pay for it all on the cross.
It just depends on where you look Donnie you have to compare the scriptures for yourself and pray for knowlegde. there are many that will tell you the truth. If you are willing to have eyes to seeProverbs 10:30 says "The righteous shall (((((never))))) be removed: but the wicked shall (((not))) inhabit the earth."http://www.nopretribrapture.org/http://www.mindspring.com/~anthonybuzzard/trib.htm
Jesus said Matt 13:30 30 Let both(wicked and Good seed) grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together ((( first ))) the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Matt 13:36-43 BOTH GOOD AND EVIL GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE HARVEST = (The end of this age Matt 13:39) THE ((FIRST)) THING THAT HAPPENS IS THE TARES = (The Wicked Matt 13:38) GET GATHERED TOGETHER TO BURN THEM. THEN WE THE WHEAT = (The righteous children of the kingdom Matt 13:38) GET GATHERED INTO THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM HIS BARN
The word of God clearly states that believers will escape the tribulation bloodbath. "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thes 5:9). "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev 3:10).
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15).
Truth:Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say that the Church will be raptured before the tribulation. Truth:Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say the Church will go through the tribulation.
(DONNIE;50005)
Truth:Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say that the Church will be raptured before the tribulation. Truth:Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say the Church will go through the tribulation.
You're much outdated...Christians today are being persecuted like past Christians are. So we are in a tribulation in a sense. So go after that lie.
Truth:Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say that the Church will be raptured before the tribulation. Truth:Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say the Church will go through the tribulation.
You're much outdated...Christians today are being persecuted like past Christians are. So we are in a tribulation in a sense. So go after that lie.
(thesuperjag;49460)
Don't ever claim men's words as Christ's word or the rest of the Word of God. No Pre-Tribulation Rapture existed in the Word of God, nor a Mid-Tribulation Rapture. As I can prove it by scriptures.John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.Your believe, but I take no comfort in liars.
Wow, I'm sorry... but honestly I come into this with a clean slate wanting to understand the various possitions and I must say that this is entirely out of context with the tribulation spoken of in the end times. You proved nothing with the reference to scripture (John 16:33) in respect to the tribulation of the end times. All it did was show that you fail to grasp what context is. No offense, but I'm just calling it as I see it on this.
Don't ever claim men's words as Christ's word or the rest of the Word of God. No Pre-Tribulation Rapture existed in the Word of God, nor a Mid-Tribulation Rapture. As I can prove it by scriptures.John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.Your believe, but I take no comfort in liars.
Wow, I'm sorry... but honestly I come into this with a clean slate wanting to understand the various possitions and I must say that this is entirely out of context with the tribulation spoken of in the end times. You proved nothing with the reference to scripture (John 16:33) in respect to the tribulation of the end times. All it did was show that you fail to grasp what context is. No offense, but I'm just calling it as I see it on this.
And we are ALWAYS in a tribulation in a sense. Mankind has always been. Whats your point? We will not undergo the wrath of God.
Jesus did say, "Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 24:44). The only time frame I can think of when we believers would not be expecting Jesus to return would have to be before the tribulation.
(DONNIE;49998)
I really don't think my salvation is at risk if i don't interpret a passage the same way you do. God only gives good gifts to his children and suffering the wrath of tribulation does not sound like a good gift. To say we will endure that wrath says that Jesus didn't pay for it all on the cross.
Throwing in two cents here. Your salvation isn't at risk. I don't know if that is what she was intending to say... but if it was, there is really no base or power in that claim. Don't sweat it. We are saved by Christ's work and faith in Him for it, period.
I really don't think my salvation is at risk if i don't interpret a passage the same way you do. God only gives good gifts to his children and suffering the wrath of tribulation does not sound like a good gift. To say we will endure that wrath says that Jesus didn't pay for it all on the cross.
Throwing in two cents here. Your salvation isn't at risk. I don't know if that is what she was intending to say... but if it was, there is really no base or power in that claim. Don't sweat it. We are saved by Christ's work and faith in Him for it, period.
(thesuperjag;49995)
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.Those are Christ's words before He died on the cross to die for our sins...if you disagree with Christ who is God...then go follow men and take it up to Him on Judgement Day...
I agree with Christ's Word... all the tribes of the earth will mourn after the tribulation, when they see Christ coming. What is there to disagree with? Do you think that tribes is somehow referring to Christians? Can you elaborate on your understanding of Jesus' Word here please?
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.Those are Christ's words before He died on the cross to die for our sins...if you disagree with Christ who is God...then go follow men and take it up to Him on Judgement Day...
I agree with Christ's Word... all the tribes of the earth will mourn after the tribulation, when they see Christ coming. What is there to disagree with? Do you think that tribes is somehow referring to Christians? Can you elaborate on your understanding of Jesus' Word here please?
Matthew 24: 29-31 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Need I say more?
(followerofchrist;50019)
Matthew 24: 29-31 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Need I say more?
Right, followerofchrist, that proves there is no such thing as a Pre-Tribulation or a Mid-Tribulation Rapture at all... I know POST means after, but God never uses the word RAPTURE in His Word. (Hebrew, Greek, English)
Matthew 24: 29-31 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Need I say more?
Right, followerofchrist, that proves there is no such thing as a Pre-Tribulation or a Mid-Tribulation Rapture at all... I know POST means after, but God never uses the word RAPTURE in His Word. (Hebrew, Greek, English)
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