the RCC ratlines after WWII

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DPMartin

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from website:

Senior German Nazi criminals escaped prosecution after World War II by the use of different “ratlines “ spread over Europe, which were operated via a network of Vatican contacts. The Catholic Church believed this effort would contribute to the “re-Christianization” of Europe and feared the threat to Europe of paganism and communism. In the pursuit of its political and spiritual interests, it was quick to forgive Nazi war criminals. Welcoming former sinners back to the bosom of the Church seemed a higher calling than turning them over to war crimes investigators. According to many church officials who were questioned about this practice: “You don’t understand us, but we did the right thing,”

It is estimated that 5,000 Nazi leaders managed to escape thanks to this network. They could not have accomplished this without the complicity of the Red Cross as well. Because the Red Cross didn’t do checks – no checks at all, basically, Nazi criminals and their collaborators from all over Europe were able to fraudulently obtain the documents required to make their way to South America.

Vatican Ratlines


and you'd have to be lame to not see that the only way a guy like Mussolini could come into power in Italy is with the Vatican's support and public blessing.
 

aspen

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So are you just passing on information, DP Martin?
 
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epostle1

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The Nazis may have been deemed criminals, but not all were guilty of atrocities. They were running for their lives. Some of your "evil" Nazis helped Jews. Do you want to herd them all into ovens?

As soon as Italian dictator Benito Mussolini was ousted from power on July 25, 1943, Adolf Hitler began hatching a plan to kidnap Pope Pius XII and plunder the Vatican. Clearly, the Fuehrer thought, the “Jew-loving” pope had encouraged King Victor Emanuel II and some rival fascist leaders to overthrow his Italian puppet. Vatican support for Mussolini is a myth.

The following day Hitler called for an urgent meeting of his military leaders. They must liberate Mussolini and return him to power, he cried. And “we must occupy Rome” and “destroy the Vatican’s power, capture the pope, and say that we are protecting him.” The pope might even have to be killed. That's what stupid anti-Catholics call "Vatican support".

About six weeks later, on September 13, SS General Karl Wolff, the SS commander in Italy, received a phone call from his boss, SS Chief Heinrich Himmler, orchestrator of the Holocaust. Himmler, Wolff told me, bellowed that the Fuehrer wanted to see him urgently.

The general, who had previously served as Himmler’s chief of staff, suspected why. Three days earlier, on September 10, German troops had marched into Rome, and German intelligence soon snatched Mussolini from captivity. The Duce was now to regain power in Nazi-occupied northern Italy, and Wolff would be sent to the capital in Fasano, near Salo, primarily to make sure that Mussolini followed the Nazi line. But Himmler had revealed to Wolff that Hitler had an additional secret mission in mind for him.

According to notes that Wolff told me he had taken during and after the meeting, Hitler barked: “I want you and your troops to occupy Vatican City as soon as possible, secure its files and art treasures, and take the pope and the curia to the north,” probably Liechtenstein.

Referring to the threat of an Allied invasion of Italy, he added: “I do not want the pope to fall into the hands of the Allies or to be under their political pressure and influence.”

Wolff promised to do his best but was conflicted, feeling that such an operation could alienate Italy and the entire Catholic world. Besides, he worshipped power, and the pope, like Hitler, was one of the world’s most powerful leaders. The two men, although holding diametrically contrary views, were to the calculating general like earthly gods. Still, he felt, his mission might be useful—if he could sabotage it and obtain a blessing from Pius for saving his life and the Church itself. Wolff could perhaps also save his own life if Germany lost the war and he was tried for his war crimes.

But Wolff, who revered the SS, may have been prompted as well by other more sordid details of the kidnap plot that were later discovered in a letter that one Italian fascist leader wrote to another. It was headed Massacre of Pius XII with the Entire Vatican.

According to this message, which repeated what a high SS official (perhaps Wolff) told the fascist writer, the purpose of the plot was to avenge “the papal protest in favor of the Jews”— apparently referring to an expected papal outcry when the Roman Jews were rounded up.

The plan called for soldiers of the SS Florian Geyer Cavalry, disguised in Italian uniforms, to invade the Vatican shielded by night, kill all members of the curia, and take the pope prisoner. Then troops of the Hermann Goering Panzer Division would surge into the Vatican to “rescue” the pontiff and kill the disguised SS men, assuming they were Italian assassins rather than SS compatriots. Thus, no witnesses.

If the pope tried to escape (or was perceived as trying to), he, too, would be shot. The world, like the panzer soldiers, would be led to believe that the “Italians” were guilty.

Meanwhile, Wolff described Hitler’s order to Rudolf Rahn, the German ambassador to Italy, who was to be transferred from Rome to Fasano as the emissary to Mussolini’s new republic. Rahn then joined in a conspiracy with Wolff and several other like-minded German officials against the plot and went to see Hitler. If the people learned that their pope had been abducted, Rahn told the Fuehrer and his chief lieutenants, they might rise up against the Germans.

Most of Hitler’s men seemed cool to an attack, fearing such a reaction. Even Himmler, who had been meeting secretly with the German Resistance, was uncertain; he had to choose between striking the Church, which he hated, and seeking to improve his image in Allied eyes in case Germany lost the war.
 
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epostle1

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The only one present who strongly supported an attack was Martin Bormann, Hitler’s ruthless secretary, who wanted to replace Christianity with a new religion headed by the Fuehrer. Bormann, Rahn told me, turned beet-red with anger as he, the ambassador, made his plea. But Hitler trusted his secretary most, and it appeared that his advice would be taken.

Meanwhile, General Wolff revealed to the Vatican that Pius was in danger. The pope loathed Hitler. And Hitler loathed him, viewing him as an obstacle to his —and Bormann’s—grandiose plan to capture the minds and souls of much of mankind after a victorious war.

In 1939, realizing what was at stake, Pius had actually joined in a conspiracy by some German generals to overthrow Hitler and, if necessary, a high Vatican official told me, to kill him. The risks, he said, to both the pope personally and the Church were incalculable. But in the end the plot fell through.

In 1943, as the tension between the two men grew, Monsignor Domenica Tardini, the Vatican’s assistant secretary of state, told the cardinals to “keep a suitcase ready because we might be deported at any time.” The pope himself called a meeting of cardinals to choose a possible successor in case he was kidnapped. And friends of the pope prepared a plan for him to flee to Spain if necessary, though he vowed to remain in the Vatican unless he was carried out.

Ernst von Weizsaecker, the German ambassador to the Vatican, another anti-Hitler conspirator, tried to convince Pius that he should remain silent when the Nazis rounded up the Jews of Rome. The Pope, until then, had felt that if he spoke out strongly against the Jewish genocide, Hitler would not only attack the Vatican but would drag out the hundreds of thousands of Jews from the Vatican institutions in which they were hiding throughout occupied Europe, as well as their Christian protectors.

But the German diplomats were afraid that he would nevertheless speak out publicly if the Roman Jews, his neighbors, were deported. If he did, they argued, there was virtually no chance that Hitler would cancel his kidnap plan. And on October 16, the Gestapo in Rome began rounding up the Jews.

That rainy morning, Princess Enza Pignatelli Aragona, a friend of Pius, was awakened by a phone call from a friend, who informed her of the arrests. The princess told me she rushed to the Vatican and, interrupting a papal mass, blurted the news to the pope, crying, “Only you can stop them!”

“But they promised me that they would not touch the Jews in Rome!” Pius exclaimed. He then ordered Cardinal Luigi Maglione, his secretary of state, to summon Ambassador Weizsaecker urgently and protest the action. As the princess departed, the pope promised, “I’ll do all I can.”

When Weizsaecker arrived for a meeting with Maglione, he said he would “try to do something for these poor Jews.” But, he asked, “what would the Holy See do if these things were to continue?”

“The Holy See would not want to be faced with the need to express its disapproval,” the cardinal answered …”If the Holy See were forced to
[protest], it would trust the consequences to Divine Providence.” In other words, he would speak out publicly if the roundup of Jews continued.

Shaken, the ambassador responded, “I think of the consequences that a protest by the Holy See might precipitate.”

Clearly, the word “kidnap” was on both their minds.

Meanwhile, other German diplomats—and, the Vatican would say, the pope’s nephew—urged an eminent priest, whom Berlin trusted, to write an urgent note to a cooperative German commander in Italy that was to be wired to Berlin echoing Cardinal Maglione’s warning.

At the same time, in Germany, General Wolff managed to convince Hitler that he would have a hard time suppressing an uprising in Italy if the pope felt forced to speak out and had to be dethroned. So, finally, Himmler ordered that the roundup stop after only about 1,000 of the 8,000 Roman Jews were picked up. And the pope, who had apparently been prepared to publicly condemn the roundup, felt there was no longer a need to do so now.

Several months later, in May 1944, Wolff secretly met with Pius, who, having learned of the general’s role in helping to sabotage the kidnap plot, felt that the man must have some good in him, whatever his background.

Both men agreed that the war would best end in an Allied-German alliance, without Hitler, to halt the Soviet advance on Europe. And Wolff assured the pope that he would try to frustrate any new plot against him.

Wolff was overwhelmed when the pope then blessed him. He now had the full confidence of both the Vicar of Christ and the Antichrist, an incredible interworld feat. The general rose, clicked his heels together—and raised his arm in the Nazi salute! The pope smiled forbearingly. His visitor had simply confused his gods. But he would eventually betray one of them—surrendering the entire German army in Italy, on his own, to the Americans.

The kidnap plot had failed, but it had helped to shape the policies and attitudes of the pope, Hitler, and their subordinates during a most important segment of World War II history.

Award-winning author Dan Kurzman is the only journalist who ever interviewed General Karl Wolff. His newly released book, A Special Mission: Hitler’s Secret Plot to Seize the Vatican and Kidnap Pope Pius XII, is available from Da Capo Press.
Hitler's Plan to Kidnap the Pope

Do they teach anti-Catholic bigotry in your church, Marty?
 
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epostle1

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The Vatican & the Holocaust: 860,000 Lives Saved - The Truth About Pius XII & the Jews
How does this measure up to your "RCC Ratlines"???

The vindication of Pius XII has been established principally by Jewish writers and from Israeli archives. It is now established that the Pope supervised a rescue network which saved 860,000 Jewish lives - more than all the international agencies put together.

After the war the Chief Rabbi of Israel thanked Pius XII for what he had done. The Chief Rabbi of Rome went one step further. He became a Catholic. He took the name Eugenio.
A big rat by anti-Catholic standards.
 
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epostle1

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Hitler made Lutheranism the state religion. Where are all the anti-Lutherans? Because to point that out would be politically incorrect?

MLMC2.jpg

The above picture from the church shows Nazi Soldiers and Aryan women surrounding a muscular Aryan Christ.

MLMC5.jpg

Adolph Hitler's likeness carved into the baptismal font. He is holding an SS servce cap with a death's head emblem on the brim.

But making anti-Catholic myths about WW2 is ok.

Art of Attack: Springtime for Luther and Germany!
 

twinc

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Hitler made Lutheranism the state religion. Where are all the anti-Lutherans? Because to point that out would be politically incorrect?

MLMC2.jpg

The above picture from the church shows Nazi Soldiers and Aryan women surrounding a muscular Aryan Christ.

MLMC5.jpg

Adolph Hitler's likeness carved into the baptismal font. He is holding an SS servce cap with a death's head emblem on the brim.

But making anti-Catholic myths about WW2 is ok.

Art of Attack: Springtime for Luther and Germany!
 
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DPMartin

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Hitler made Lutheranism the state religion. Where are all the anti-Lutherans? Because to point that out would be politically incorrect?


The above picture from the church shows Nazi Soldiers and Aryan women surrounding a muscular Aryan Christ.


Adolph Hitler's likeness carved into the baptismal font. He is holding an SS servce cap with a death's head emblem on the brim.

But making anti-Catholic myths about WW2 is ok.

well political correctness is propaganda, and historically correct is usually based on facts:

Aryan race - Wikipedia
 

twinc

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Hitler made Lutheranism the state religion. Where are all the anti-Lutherans? Because to point that out would be politically incorrect?

MLMC2.jpg

The above picture from the church shows Nazi Soldiers and Aryan women surrounding a muscular Aryan Christ.

MLMC5.jpg

Adolph Hitler's likeness carved into the baptismal font. He is holding an SS servce cap with a death's head emblem on the brim.


it is not and has not been realised the enormous decision Catholics had to make whether it was going to be religion or King and country especially when Italy was invaded and the bombing and shelling was getting close to Rome and the Vatican - can anyone see where something similar applies today - twinc

But making anti-Catholic myths about WW2 is ok.

Art of Attack: Springtime for Luther and Germany!
 

twinc

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it is not and has not been realised the enormous decision Catholics had to make whether it was their religion or their king and country especially when Italy was invaded by the allies and the bombing and shelling was getting close to Rome and the Vatican - can anyone see where something similar applies today - twinc
 

epostle1

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Blame everything on the Vatican, the ultimate in geopolitical stupidity.
 

BreadOfLife

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from website:
Senior German Nazi criminals escaped prosecution after World War II by the use of different “ratlines “ spread over Europe, which were operated via a network of Vatican contacts. The Catholic Church believed this effort would contribute to the “re-Christianization” of Europe and feared the threat to Europe of paganism and communism. In the pursuit of its political and spiritual interests, it was quick to forgive Nazi war criminals. Welcoming former sinners back to the bosom of the Church seemed a higher calling than turning them over to war crimes investigators. According to many church officials who were questioned about this practice: “You don’t understand us, but we did the right thing,”
It is estimated that 5,000 Nazi leaders managed to escape thanks to this network. They could not have accomplished this without the complicity of the Red Cross as well. Because the Red Cross didn’t do checks – no checks at all, basically, Nazi criminals and their collaborators from all over Europe were able to fraudulently obtain the documents required to make their way to South America.
Vatican Ratlines
and you'd have to be lame to not see that the only way a guy like Mussolini could come into power in Italy is with the Vatican's support and public blessing.
I WAS going to respond to this moronic anti-Catholic Drivel - but epostle1 did such a masterful job as destroying your nonsense - so I'll just sit back and watch you squirm . . .
 

epostle1

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WHAT THE VATICAN RATLINES WEB SITE DOESN'T TELL YOU

Any time a Holocaust memorial does not single out Jews, it is an historical farce: they were the only ethnic group that was exclusively targeted by the Nazis. To that extent, the Holocaust was a Jewish event of monumental significance. But any time Holocaust victims who were not Jewish are simply dismissed altogether, we have another historical farce: Polish Catholics, for example, suffered badly.

Six million Polish citizens were killed in the Holocaust—three million Jews and three million Catholics. Poland was the only country where the Germans gave official death orders for any Pole who helped a Jew. And more Poles were killed for helping Jews than anyone else in the world. The current Broadway play, “Irena’s Vow,” is a dramatic production that accurately tells how Polish Catholics risked their lives to save Jews.

The SS did not take note of the religious affiliation of its prisoners, with the exception of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. But this does not justify dismissing Catholic victims. After all, the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum pays tribute to Polish Catholics, and so should all memorials.

To put all Holocaust victims on an equal plane with Jews is wrong, but it is equally wrong to pretend that Catholics, especially those of Polish descent, weren’t among Hitler’s many victims.
HOLOCAUST PARK SHUNS POLISH CATHOLICS

The "Vatican Ratlines" is wrong and on many other counts. I suppose evil 2 year old Nazis need a war crimes court as well. gimmie a break...

How can a holocaust "expert" overlook 3,000,000 Catholic victims??? It's nowhere on the web site. Wanna know what else is missing?
 
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amadeus

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The SS did not take note of the religious affiliation of its prisoners, with the exception of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. But this does not justify dismissing Catholic victims. After all, the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum pays tribute to Polish Catholics, and so should all memorials.

The numbers were small compared to the others you mention, but the Jehovah's Witnesses suffered terribly in Nazi Germany, but because they stood their ground based on their beliefs openly criticizing the Nazis. Unlike the Jews all they had to do was keep their mouths shut and they would have been spared. They would not.
 
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epostle1

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it is not and has not been realised the enormous decision Catholics had to make whether it was their religion or their king and country especially when Italy was invaded by the allies and the bombing and shelling was getting close to Rome and the Vatican - can anyone see where something similar applies today - twinc
The Vatican is not the Church, it is a center of administration. Rome is a city in Italy, it is not the Church. If you nuke the Vatican, you will still be unable to destroy the Church. Anti-Catholic obsession with the alleged evil Vatican gets tiresome, because it is grounded in stupidity.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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When Rome falls in the book of Revelation, the Vatican falls with her.
The headless horseman, no leader, chaos in the romanist world.
 

APAK

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I learned quite a bit of information about Catholic resistance and the intentions of the CC behind the ratlines on wikipedia - suprising but true

Catholic Church and Nazi Germany - Wikipedia
I would not believe half of what you read on this link. It a sheer distortion of what the original aim and purpose of the Nazi socialist party. In fact the truth of it you won't find on the internet, or it will be very hard to find....is a purposely hidden subject..as the victor always says, move along now, there's nothing to see here...we have told you all you need to know...it is the truth

APAK
 
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