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Featured The real Israel of God

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Keraz, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    You also claim that you respect proper scriptural rebuttals of you understanding of the prophetic word, but when the Hebrew text is translated differently to your translations, you then use the put down as you just have against me.

    Perhaps when you can properly counter my arguments then perhaps my questioning of the veracity of your understanding will become obvious.

    Your view of a CME can be found in the scriptures simply does not stack up when other explanations can explain the Hebrew texts in question.

    Better luck next time with your feeble attempt to justify your theory.

    Shalom
     
  2. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    What is your 'Hebrew' explanation of Isaiah 30:26a?
    That verse says something we know can literally happen. Why should we make it into meaning anything else that an explosion on the suns surface, that will cause the moon to reflect as bright as the sun? As supported by over 70 other prophesies.
     
  3. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    But it did, us, like it or not,

    Rom_11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    And God will save them because God keeps His promises

    Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    He cares not for the wisdom of man which is foolishness.
     
  4. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The original Apostles and disciples did spread the Gospel. But was that a general thing? And do any Jews today, other than a few individuals like Art Katz, Jacob Damkani, evangelize? They do not and Christianity is actually against their Law in Israel.

    Paul makes it clear in Romans 8 to 9, that Jewish Israel was removed from the 'Olive Tree' of Jesus. That HAVE fallen and now their Salvation is only by accepting and being born again in Jesus. Matthew 21:43
    God will NOT save anyone who hates Jesus.

    People have been confused by scriptures like Hebrews 8, into thinking that Jewish Israel is the only Israel. This is a modern error, as the Church has always taught that the true Israelites of God, are His faithful people. As Ephesians 2:11-18, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10 all say: Christians are people from every race, nation and language, the Overcomers for Him; the Israelites of God.
     
  5. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Only one confused here is a man who seems to have something against the Jews,

    Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
    Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
    Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Is it still a mystery to you...
     
  6. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    No.
    But it seems so for you. Does Paul say all, or even any Jews will actually be re-grafted back into the Olive Tree, which is Jesus?
    He say it is possible and God wants to do it, but their re-grafting won't happen until all the Christian non Jews have come into the Kingdom. Even then, we are told in many prophesies that only a remnant will be saved.

    You accuse me, wrongly; of having something against the Jewish people. Conversely, I accuse you of having an unhealthy and unbiblical desire to see a Jesus rejecting people, saved and honored.
     
  7. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Why dont you want them to be, is that an issue with, you is this all you have, rejecting the Jews because they dont fit into your understanding, they give more honor to God than most christians do, they have held onto their faith even with all that persecution, but christians simply reject them out of hand because they dont fit into their understanding,

    God will not break His promise to them simply because you dont get it.
     
  8. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    There is no point in arguing with @Keraz , as he lacks understanding. The Matthew 15:1-20 comes to mind with respect to what he is doing. In his last post, his understanding of when all of the "gentiles comes in," as it is wrongly translated from what Paul wrote in Rom 11:25, is a near future event in his mind, whereas, if we logically consider the implication of when all of the Gentiles and Israelites come into the kingdom of God, this will happen right up to the time of the Great White Throne Room judgement.

    The better translation of this portion of that verse is: - "when the fullness with respect to time of the heathen Gentiles is completed," 26 after this time, all of Israel will be saved.", which is pointing to a near future event which we understand will be the collecting of all of the nations at Armageddon to be judged for their trampling of God's sanctuary and earthly Hosts for a period of 2,300 years.

    Jesus foretold when this event, in a number of the Gospel accounts, when this event will occur. Matt 24:32, Mark 13:28 and Luke 21:29-30 is one common revelation of when Israel will be redeemed.

    Another passage where Jesus reveals when Israel will repent of their sins is found in Luke 19:12, which is the Parable of the Minas, where the timing of verse 12 is when Satan, the lead character of this parable goes off into the abyss, which tradition places on the eastern side of the Euphrates River near, or in the Land of the Chaldeans. The other event spoken of by Jesus, which occurs at the same time as recorded in Isaiah 24:21-22, is found in Luke 14:28-33 where Jesu gives a description of the Armageddon event, where He is judging the Nations of the earth in sight of Jerusalem and He gives them His terms for their repentances where they have to give up by dying all that they are up to and including that time.

    Now I have given three scriptural witnesses to what I am presenting, but keraz will reject these scriptural passages because I have dared to consider and question the English translations that is recorded in Rom 11:25 base on the actual Greek Text in this verse.

    In another thread you made reference to Matt 15 and it is my belief that that chapter is applicable here as well with keraz.

    Shalom
     
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  9. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    What you don't get, is that God does have a secret, He has hidden His faithful Israelite people among the nations. He knows who they all are, Amos 9:8-9.
    Anyone reading the Bible story, can see how the Lord separated the two Houses; Judah and Israel. Judah remained a visible entity, but Israel lost their identity and were scattered around the world.

    The Great Promises of God to His People:
    Ezekiel 28:24-26 The Lord God says: When I gather the House of Israel from the nations among whom they are now scattered and I have been reverenced by them, as the nations will see, then they will live in their heritage, all of the Holy Land that I promised to My servant Jacob.

    They will have security there, building houses and planting vineyards, yes, they will dwell in confidence and safety, when I have executed My judgements upon all their contemptuous neighbors. They will no longer have to fear any threats from ungodly peoples around them and they will know that I am the Lord their God. KJV, CJB, REB.


    This short prophecy encapsulates the truth of what every righteous Christian can expect for their future. Sadly, not many can see this future, because of beliefs in false teachings and inability to discern the prophesies correctly.

    We know from New Testament teaching that Christian peoples now belong to the House of Israel, whether they are true descendants of Jacob or not. But in order for God’s promises to the Patriarchs to be fulfilled, the majority, now ‘scattered among the nations’, WILL, in fact, be their descendants. Only God knows who they all are. Amos 9:9

    All of the Lord’s righteous people will be gathered soon after ‘a Day of cloud and darkness’, Ezekiel 34:12 Ezekiel 20:34-38. That will be the many prophesied and well described ‘Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath’, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster of fire from the sun, Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:7, that will destroy His enemies, Isaiah 66:15-16 and enable God’s plan for His people to ‘display His glory for all the nations to see’, Ezekiel 39:27, to be fulfilled. Proving that all this will happen before the Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.

    The people of the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, having passed through the ‘great ordeal’ of the Day of wrath, Luke 21:35, Revelation 7:1-17, will select their own leaders, Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11, they will build a new Temple, Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:6-9, they will send out 144,000 missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus, and after all that is prophesied before the Return takes place, it is them who say: ‘Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord’!
     
  10. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of videos on you tube about where have they all have gone, quiet amazing, doesnt change what God will do. Stand against Israel you stand against God, you bless Israel you be blessed, you Curse Israel that will fall upon you.
     
  11. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The Bible tells us where Israel has gone. The House of Israel has fulfilled the blessings promised by Jacob and Moses.
    They remain scattered among the nations, a vast multitude. Soon to be gathered into all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5

    The Jewish people will be punished for their continued rejection of Jesus. Only a remnant will survive. Romans 1:18, Hebrews 10:26-27
     
  12. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Ad how do you think christianty will stand for the very same thing, you know this bit,

    Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
    Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

    so many set God limits and expect Him to bow down to their beliefs, HE will not, so many christians, just like the foolish virgins, religion and study but so few find that narrow way, should God reject them too, by your standards you set, He should, than heaven would be so empty, not Gods plan.

    Luk_21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    and still christians tread them down, how can God bless those who despise His people.
     
  13. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    I am an English speaker, and the English Bible is just fine. Some modern translations are atrocious. They come out of apostasy. Most believers today, do not see Revelation as the second earthly ministry of Jesus and a new set of human disciples, the 144K Jewish male virgins. Refusing to see the church is raptured before the 144K are sealed has been the main issue with all eschatology.

    Current teaching wants to lump the church into the judgments and details of Revelation, which has led to many weird conflations. Revelation does not even claim the 144K are on earth during Satan's 3.5 years. John clearly says only 2 literal humans (not the church) will be in Jerusalem for these 3.5 years. There is no peaceful 3.5 years of a one world antichrist led event. That is the false doctrine of the left behind teaching. No one is left behind or moved to Jerusalem. Jesus and the 144K will be separating the sheep from the goats, wheat from the tares. This is not the church, but those who listen to the Lamb's teaching and follow the Lamb. Sheep and goats dealing with Israel. The wheat and tares dealing with the Gentile Nations.

    The church is with God in the temple of God, Paradise. God is on the throne in clear view of all on the earth. Paradise is near God on the throne. The church will have glorified bodies shining like the sun. The stars will be seen as angels.
     
  14. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    How can God Bless those who despise His Son?
    I can post over 20 prophesies that tell us what God will do to Judah, still in their intransigent disbelief and arrogant apostasy.
    It is modern Church teaching that promotes a general Jewish redemption. It is an immutable tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory. Neither is prophesied to happen, they are false doctrines.
    You are another dreamer!
    Unless you can provide proper scriptural proofs of your beliefs, we can dismiss any such nonsense as you post here, as lies from the Devil.
     
  15. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Despise His people you despise Him. You read and you think you know, but you know nothing. What you are saying is that Gods promises are not "yes and Amen". You would have God break His promise to Israel just because you dont like it, know if He broke His promise to them why should he keep His promise to us??, considering most christians have already rejected Him too.
     
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  16. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The truth, which you don't seem to want to know, is that the Jewish State of Israel, is a nation founded on communist and atheistic principals. They reject Jesus and hate Christians, they rely on their own strength, [and Americas!] God is rote worshipped in the synagogues and most Jews do not acknowledge the Creator God of the Bible.

    But they have had some supernatural help, who from? Maybe God for His own purposes, or Satan to support his own.

    God WILL keep His promises to Israel, to the Israelites who believe in Him and are born again in Jesus. Galatians 6:14-16
    The apostate Israelis, He will judge and punish. Only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Romans 9:27
     
  17. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    You cannot seperate Israel the land Given to them by God from Israel the people, there are those that call themselves Jews who are not, just as we have christians who call themselves christain who are not, If you have a beef with Israel, take it up with God, and you go tell Him why you demand that He cannot save them.
     
  18. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Who did God give the holy Land to?
    To Abraham and to his descendants. Genesis 13:14-17
    Who are Abrahams descendants? Galatians 3:7-9 & 3:26-29, Faithful Christian people, from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10 THEY will be the Lord's priests, on earth, where Jesus is: in Jerusalem.

    Your demand that the Jews own the holy Land is contrary to what the Bible teaches. What motivates you to do it?
     
  19. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    The Hebrews the Israleites who do you think, why do you have such a problem with Israel, do you want me to stand against God,

    we put them under one banner so what.
     
  20. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    It isn't me that has a problem with the Jewish State of Israel. It is you who thinks they are God's special people, contrary to all the observable facts and Bible truths. Prophecy plainly states they will be judged and punished. Isaiah 22:1-14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, +

    When the Bible tells about the Blessings for Israel, they are not to apostate Jewish Israel, but for righteous, Godly Christian believers. The true Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16
     
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