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Featured The real Israel of God

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Keraz, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    God divided the ancient Israelites, 1 Kings 12:24. It was His Plan and the Prophets consistently maintain this separation, in about 160 verses.

    There is a destiny for the House of Israel and another destiny for the House of Judah.
    They were and still remain separate entities; Judah as the visible Jewish State of Israel plus those still in Diaspora of about 20 Million people and the Ten Northern tribes, still scattered among the nations, of innumerable peoples and in the main; the Christians of the world.

    People say that Jewish Israelis can be reconstituted into a nation of faith. This idea is purely a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' dispensationalists and is not found in the Bible.
    Amos 2:4-5 tells of the fate of Judah, then: Amos 2:6-16, and all the rest of the Book of Amos, is directed toward My people; Israel. Finishing with Amos 9:13-15, where he foretells the coming time that the Lord will restore His people; the true Israel and plant them again in their own Land.
    Obviously, from this prophecy and many others, this cannot refer to the current Jewish State.

    WE will be the people that God always wanted in His holy Land, WE will fulfil God's Promises to the Patriarchs, of their descendants occupying all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates and being His witnesses, Isaiah 43:8-13, John 15:27, and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16
     
  2. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Who is the nation of Israel to whom God makes a promise in Jeremiah 31?
    Jesus gives us a very clear indication in the parable of the landowner:

    Matthew 21:43 Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
    We do not have to look too far to discover which nation, people group that is: it is the church, the church of Jesus Christ, made up of believing Jews and Gentiles, who are the seed of Abraham, the children of God, the real Israelites of the New Testament.

    I Peter 2:9-10 writes to the church in these words: But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people ... which in times past were not a people, but are now the people of God.
    Holy nation
    is the name given to Israel in Exodus 19:5-6. Peter now applies it to the church! The church is the holy nation, and since the church will never be destroyed, it is in her and not in the modern Jewish State of Israel, that the new Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is fulfilled. Titus 2:14 is also instructive: to the churches in Crete Paul attributes the title "peculiar people," a name taken from Exodus 19:5.

    One more thing must be noticed: in Jeremiah 31:31-34 The promise of the new Covenant is made to the house of Judah and the house of Israel. In this covenant God will: put His law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and will be their God and they shall be His people ... Moreover, God promises to the same house of Israel: I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more. How is this new covenant promise fulfilled, and to whom? The answer is found in Hebrews 8:6-13. This Covenant cannot be with the House of Israel as a separate entity from the church of Jesus Christ. The church of Christ, which enjoys the knowledge of God and forgiveness of sins, is the house of Israel.


    Are there, then, no promises to the political entity of the State of Israel? The answer is an unequivocal no. Will Israel as a political entity ever rebuild her temple and worship God as she did in the Old Testament? That is impossible under today’s conditions, but even if they did build a temple in Jerusalem and institute a priesthood, offer sacrifices and celebrate the feasts, it will be just another sign of Jewish apostasy from God.


    All the promises of God are in Christ. 2 Cor. 1:20 All the promises of God were made to Christ, as the Seed of Abraham. Galatians 3:16 Therefore, there can be no promise of any kind for any unbeliever outside of Jesus Christ.

    The calling of the Jew, as the calling of the Gentile, is to repent and believe in Jesus Christ and join the church of Jew and Gentile, male and female, bond and free, where there is no difference, and as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them and mercy!" For they are the [Christian] Israel of God! Galatians 3:26-29
     
  3. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Why not..

    Zec 8:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;
    Zec 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.
     
  4. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    mjrhealth, does not the meaning of yə·rū·šā·lim have as its meaning the City of Peace where God will reside in the distant future?
     
  5. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Better stated: HISTORY documents that Jewish Israelis have been reconstituted into a nation/state.


    But there's also a reason why beaches have a shortage of sand.
    Bobby Jo
     
  6. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The New Testament makes it clear who are the real people of God. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10
    Here is another prophecy describing the fate of Judah:

    Jeremiah chapter 13:1-10 Jeremiah is instructed to buy a loincloth. He is then told to hide it near a river. After a long time, he retrieved it, but it was ruined.

    Jeremiah 13:11-27 Thus, I shall ruin the enormous pride of Judah, these people with stubborn hearts, who worship other gods – they will become like that cloth, no good for anything. Hosea 8:14, Jeremiah 8:5-12
    ......I bound all Israel and all Judah to Me, so that they should become a source of renown and praise to Me, but they did not listen. Isaiah 31:6-7
    ....I shall make all who live in Jerusalem drunk..... I shall show no compassion nor refrain from destroying them. Obadiah 12-16
    Pay heed, be not too proud to listen, for it is the Lord who speaks.
    Give glory to God, before the light that you look for turns to darkness.

    If in the depths you will not listen, then weep bitterly for the Lords people are carried off into captivity. [Judah conquered by Babylon and again in AD70] Ezekiel 21:14

    Say to the King and the Queen mother; take a humble seat, for your crowns have fallen. Ezekiel 21:25-27
    The towns in the Negev are besieged, no one can relieve them. Judah has been swept clean away. This is paralleled by Ezekiel 20:46-47, Isaiah 9:18-19, Jer 10:18

    Look up and see! Those people who are coming from the North.
    The Lord’s people, all true Christians, migrating to the Land. Isaiah 41:8-10

    Where is the flock that you were so proud of?
    Now; God’s faithful Christian people scattered among the nations.

    What will you say when your leaders are missing? When you wonder why this has happened? It is because of your many sins. Isaiah 3:1-3
    Can a Nubian change his skin? No more can you, [Judah] do good, so accustomed are you to doing evil. Isaiah 38-9

    I will scatter you like chaff, before the desert wind. Jeremiah 33:14
    This is your lot – I have decreed this for you, because you have forgotten Me and trusted in false gods. I will bare your shame for all to see. Isaiah 3:16-26

    For your adulteries and shameful deeds – woe to you Jerusalem. How much longer will you be unclean? Nahum 1:12-15

    This is a clear prophecy about the judgement of Judah in ancient times and again, soon to happen, proved by the unfulfilled prophesies here and throughout the Bible.

    Then, the Lord’s faithful Christian people will enter the Land from the North. Isaiah 49:12 They will live there, in peace and security, to prepare for the Return of Jesus.
    Reference; Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.
     
  7. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 41
    1 Listen to me in silence, O coastlands;
    let the peoples renew their strength;
    let them approach, then let them speak;
    let us together draw near for judgment.
    2 Who stirred up one from the east

    whom victory meets at every step?
    He gives up nations before him,
    so that he tramples kings under foot;
    he makes them like dust with his sword,
    like driven stubble with his bow.
    3 He pursues them and passes on safely,
    by paths his feet have not trod.
    4 Who has performed and done this,
    calling the generations from the beginning?
    I, the Lord, the first,
    and with the last; I am He.
    5 The coastlands have seen and are afraid,
    the ends of the earth tremble;
    they have drawn near and come.
    6 Every one helps his neighbor,
    and says to his brother, “Take courage!”
    7 The craftsman encourages the goldsmith,
    and he who smooths with the hammer him who strikes the anvil,
    saying of the soldering, “It is good”;
    and they fasten it with nails so that it cannot be moved.

    8 But you, Israel, my servant,
    Jacob, whom I have chosen,
    the offspring of Abraham, my friend;
    9 you whom I took from the ends of the earth,
    and called from its farthest corners,
    saying to you, “You are my servant,
    I have chosen you and not cast you off”;
    10 fear not, for I am with you,
    be not dismayed, for I am your God;
    I will strengthen you, I will help you,
    I will uphold you with my victorious right hand.

    I have no clue what "Version" you're using, but I find NO MENTION of any people coming from the north in verses 8-10. Perhaps you mistyped your intended passage? -- Although it appears that the verse 2 "east" is a reference to China.

    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  8. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The quote I used is in Jeremiah 13:20.
    Isaiah 41:8-10 is a supporting scripture.

    That the current inhabitants of all of the holy Land will soon be removed, is well prophesied:
    Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

    This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people:

    1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

    2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

    3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

    The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:4

    This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8
     
  9. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    If you purport the same event, then who is the "east" in 41:2, and why is China involved, when China is reserved for when Russia attacks from the North, and China attacks the Russians from the "east"? Could it be that you can only explain parsed verses, but not compete passages?

    You seem VERY adept at parsing.
    Bobby Jo
     
  10. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Talking about the future of China and Russia, is outside of Bible Prophecy. Pure speculation and worthless guesswork.
    It is what will happen very soon in the Middle East, that is Prophesied, which we should know about and be prepared for.
     
  11. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone notice that Keraz NEVER ANSWERED WHO THE "EAST" WAS? I didn't notice it at all. He completely fooled me, and it wasn't until I thought about his response, reading it over and over and over for some connection to where Isaiah 41:2 said "east" that after about a HOUR of concentration, (actually less than a second), it finally dawned on me the Keraz is as dishonest in defending his purported "wisdom" as all the other bombastic nincompoops.

    As "Gomer Pyle" used to say: SUPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE.
    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  12. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Bobby Jo, your confrontational attitude discredits you.

    Isaiah 41:2 refers to Jesus as the One raised up from the East.
    Proved by Isaiah 41:1, where He is accepted by to peoples of the coasts and islands; the Western peoples.

    Jesus is the Lord who scatters His enemies and makes the world tremble. Isaiah 41:3-5 Which He will soon literally do on His forthcoming terrible Day of fiery wrath.
     
  13. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 42:1 Listen to me in silence, O coastlands;
    let the peoples renew their strength;
    let them approach, then let them speak;
    let us together draw near for judgment.

    2 Who stirred up one from the east
    whom victory meets at every step?
    He gives up nations before him,
    so that he tramples kings under foot;
    he makes them like dust with his sword,
    like driven stubble with his bow.
    3 He pursues them and passes on safely,
    by paths his feet have not trod.

    Regard Verse 3: It seems to me that China has never ventured outside it's own borders for defense of international stability, like the U.S. did in WWI, WWII, the Korean Conflict, Vietnam, Kuwait, Syria, and Afghanistan. And now in Dan. 11 we find:

    Dan. 11:44 But tidings from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go forth with great fury to exterminate and utterly destroy many.

    ... where "east" specifically is identified with CHINA, although we also know that "GOD's Glory enters the Temple from the east". So now one has to determine which subject is referenced, -- and in a simple rendering of the verses, it appears there's an unstoppable army which lays waste to everything in it's path. And so where YOU cite "north", so too "north" is cited along with "east" in Dan. 11:44.

    So I would propose that Isaiah and Daniel are citing the same event.

    Bobby Jo
     
  14. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    ... and to continue the above premise, we can turn to Dan. 7 to discover that when Jesus returns, HE brings PEACE, STABILITY (albeit with an Iron Rod), and a 15 Month long CONVERSION to the Millennial Kingdom Empire:

    Dan. 7:12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

    He doesn't "... trample kings under foot ...".
    Bobby Jo
     
  15. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    You confuse the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, with His Return in glory, to reign peacefully.
     
  16. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    You disbelieve Scripture which depicts the conversion from the Image of Metal's model, into the Millennial Kingdom model. And certainly satan will attempt to destroy the earth through nuclear weapons, -- he will fail and Jesus will return and rebuild our civilization into a thousand years of peace.

    Perhaps if you removed your CME tinted glasses, you could read Scripture as presented.
    Bobby Jo
     
  17. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The Lord will destroy all weapons of war, on His Day of fiery wrath:
    Hosea 2:18 ...I shall break the bow and all weapons of war and sweep them off the earth.

    Micah 5:5-11 On that Day, I will destroy your military fortifications.

    Zephaniah 1:16 A Day of battle cries against the fortified cities and towns.

    Isaiah 30:25b On the Day of massacre, when fortresses fall.

    Amos 5:9 Destruction will flash forth onto the mighty, against their strongholds.

    Jeremiah 50:27 Put all warriors to the sword, lead them to slaughter, for their time has come.

    Perhaps if you read the prophesies as Written, you would see that the Lord cannot allow nukes to pollute His holy Land.
     
  18. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    And you are just denying Gods promise to Israel, if it was not for Israel we would have nothing yet christians cant even give them teh credit due to them, even today they still hold onto God even if it is the wrong way, how many christians could suffer such abuse and oppression and still stand for God, You are here denying God His right to save whom He will save while the devil insists in trying to wipe them out so God cannot keep His promise, seems christians are willing to take his side on that,

    Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    even forgiven

    Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

    Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
    Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    Deny them all you like you stand in opposition to God.
     
  19. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. It'll all transpire due to a CME.

    Bobby Jo
     
  20. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    If you weren't so deceived, you would see that the current Jewish State of Israel is not the people God wants in His holy land.
    Nowhere does the Bible say they will all be redeemed. Only a remnant will survive their forthcoming punishment. Romans 9:27

    Paul says: they are not all Israel who claim to be Israel.
    So who is the other Israel? Here is a clue; John 10:1-17, Matthew 15:24, + The born again Christian people.
     
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