The Resurrection is for all people (thank you Yeshua!)

[stunnedbygrace]

Im not gonna discredit Jesus though.

Of course not. I guess…since you believe the gospel being preached to all the world really means only in Jerusalem, to your mind it would be discrediting Jesus to think it means the whole world. And to my mind, since I think when He said the whole world it means the whole world, and so it would be discrediting Jesus to say He came again before that happened.
But yeah, no one wants to discredit Jesus, that’s for sure!

 

[MatthewG]

Okay @Earburner thank you for participating in the thread. Like I said before no one should believe anything anyone is saying here and they should be encouraged to read the scriptures.

I could be lying to you and everyone here. I’m a falliable human being just like every other teacher or preacher one may listen to on the radio or the tv or in person.

At the end of the day it boils down too these three things.

Faith, Hope, Love.

Our knowledge while it’s great to have and we can learn and grow and mature in knowing God and knowing the scriptures, doesn’t mean anything if one can’t love with agape love.

May all be encouraged as I’ve always stated to read the scripture faith comes by hearing and hearing from the word of God, the Bible is the only way to renew the mind and the heart, by the Holy Spirit, If you so desire that in your life.

Pray for all people, even your enemies, do good to those who mistreat you or misuse you, and trust God through everything in this life no matter what you may go through.

It’s not as bad as the first century Christian’s but we wrestle with our soul (mind/will/emotions), and Jesus is the only one whom can help purge the darkness out.

Keep faith, be encouraged and don’t become disappointed when others accuse you for the sake of Jesus, because you have faith on Him, continue to believe and not lose hope and love God and love others.

God bless.

 

[Earburner]

Come on @Earburner do we have to do anything at all? No prayer, no asking God to help us? No labor in the word? No anything everything will just come to you if you believe? No need to check historical contexts? No hearing of the word that builds faith?

I never said that we cannot examine "the [scholarly] wisdom of men". But, I am saying that the Mind of Christ within us, has the final interpretation of our human words/languages, that God must use, in order for Him to convey the meanings of His own higher thoughts.
2Tim.3[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
"Inspiration"
Strong's Number - G2315
Greek: θεόπνευστος
Transliteration: theopneustos
Pronunciation: theh-op'-nyoo-stos
Definition: From G2316 and a presumed derivative of G4154; divinely breathed in: - given by inspiration of God.
KJV Usage: given by inspiration of God (1x).
Occurs: 1
In verses: 1

In other words, His higher thoughts/meanings are inserted among the word(s) of our OWN human meaning.
Isaiah 55:8-9

 

[MatthewG]

I never said that we cannot examine "the [scholarly] wisdom of men".

Never said anything about that. You seem highly against anything that may be written by man. Do you not believe the Holy Spirit can work through people to put things together that perhaps me or you cannot? There is no limit on what the spirit can do through another person who allows the Holy Spirit to work with them, through prayers and reading the word.

But, I am saying that the Mind of Christ within us, has the final interpretation of our human words/languages, that God must use, in order for Him to convey the meanings of His own higher thoughts.

You mentioned the before how “we use our words to convey the Holy Spirit has to say” I’m not saying the Holy Spirit can not do such a thing but it’s not going to contradict what is learned from the Lord Jesus which is to love God and to love others.

2Tim.3

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
"Inspiration"
Strong's Number - G2315
Greek: θεόπνευστος
Transliteration: theopneustos
Pronunciation: theh-op'-nyoo-stos
Definition: From G2316 and a presumed derivative of G4154; divinely breathed in: - given by inspiration of God.
KJV Usage: given by inspiration of God (1x).
Occurs: 1
In verses: 1

In other words, His higher thoughts/meanings are inserted among the word(s) of our OWN human meaning.
Isaiah 55:8-9

Did you know when Paul was writing to Timothy he was only speaking of the Old Testament scripture?

I don’t believe that Gods thoughts our our thoughts or Gods ways our ways so I believe your wrong in sharing a scripture that talks about God.

We are not God, we have the Holy Spirit from God within us however we are still human beings. Gods thoughts are higher than ours and our ways his ways.

Im start to distrust you highly for the way they you are using scriptures to benefit you yourself, as though you may speak for God himself? It’s really weird sir.

I only know what Jesus has said and what the apostles have said, and know a little bit about the Old Testament scripture.

Earlier you had;
You also deemed me as though my ways are man’s ways of thinking when I point out how scripture needs to be take contextually and not ripped apart to fit some miscommunicated doctrine someone may hold on to…

So no I don’t believe what you are putting out at this point, but I love you either way.

 

[Earburner]

Of course not. I guess…since you believe the gospel being preached to all the world really means only in Jerusalem, to your mind it would be discrediting Jesus to think it means the whole world. And to my mind, since I think when He said the whole world it means the whole world, and so it would be discrediting Jesus to say He came again before that happened.
But yeah, no one wants to discredit Jesus, that’s for sure!

Very true! When Jesus told the Jews that the KoG/HoH would be taken from them, and given to another NATION, He was referring to the Born Again Saints, who would come through the preaching and epistles of the Apostles**.
And of course, Jesus, the KoG/KoH Himself, did just that, as evidenced by choosing Saul/Paul for that very mission to the Gentiles.
Matt.21[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God [Jesus Himself] shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof.

**Note: 1Pet.2[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy NATION a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Edit:
Don't you see, Jesus is STILL IN His Second appearance, but patiently looking for that day of His third appearance, when ALL of His Saints will be Glorified into the likeness of His Immortality, being finally with Him forever.

 

[Earburner]

Never said anything about that. You seem highly against anything that may be written by man. Do you not believe the Holy Spirit can work through people to put things together that perhaps me or you cannot? There is no limit on what the spirit can do through another person who allows the Holy Spirit to work with them, through prayers and reading the word.

Am I wrong in adhering to John 16:13 and the Holy Spirit's instruction of 1 Corinthians 2:5?
I don't think so at all, in fact I do it all the more.

 

[MatthewG]

Do you mind if I ask you what denomination you are from @Earburner ?

Jesus was talking to his disciples at this point in John 16

““But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:5-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

1 Corinthians was written to the church or Corinthians,


“

Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭1:1-3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

And there is a lot of context you’re not fully sharing,

“And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭2:1-14, 16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

What does the Holy Spirit cause people to do?

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:22-26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So you should be able to allow all of these things flow through opposed to the two types of wisdom there is.

Earthly wisdom that deals with the flesh and spiritual wisdom.

“Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.”
‭‭James‬ ‭3:13-18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I may be a fool to some people but not when it comes to the Bible.

 

[Philologos]

Valid points here thank you for sharing Philogos.

Just people don’t believe everyone is resurrected. Some believe they just die and that is it. It becomes very confusing but your points here are good to note.

I suppose that's the case here. Perhaps its an invitation to those who simply do not understand or believe Scripture. Thanks, I may have been seeing this from a different perspective.

 

[MatthewG]

I suppose that's the case here. Perhaps its an invitation to those who simply do not understand or believe Scripture. Thanks, I may have been seeing this from a different perspective.

Hey Philologos,

You are right, that was why this thread was made so people could see the scriptures in which confirm that all people will be raised from the dead. Somehow along the way many objections and things have come about from others about these things in which eschatology tends to come up. Thank you for your points and sharing as well, be encouraged to start your own thread if you desire and share with others on the forums.

 

[Earburner]

You are right, that was why this thread was made so people could see the scriptures in which confirm that all people will be raised from the dead. Somehow along the way many objections and things have come about from others about these things in which eschatology tends to come up. Thank you for your points and sharing as well, be encouraged to start your own thread if you desire and share with others on the forums.

Do you know where the OT Saints of Malachi 3:16 are right at this minute, what condition they are in and how they got there?
Most Christians don't know.
Try Revelation 6:9-11.
If you received God's understanding about it, then you know that "level" of thinking is very contrary to the way the biblical scholars think about Rev. 6:9-11.

 

[MatthewG]

@Earburner,

Malachi 3:16

The book of remembrance was the royal archives where the most significant events of a king's reign were recorded (Ezra 4:15; Ezra 5:17). As Mordecai was rewarded on the basis of the royal archives (Ester 2:23; 6:1-3), ,so it will be for all who fear God and treasure His name. Whether or not such heavenly records exist literally, the many biblical references to them show that God knows and will reward this those who belong to Him (1 Kings 19:18; Psalms 56:8; Isaiah 34:16; Daniel 7:10; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 20:12). God has already marked a day on His calendar when he will come with compassion to retrieve His people, His precious jewels (see Exodus 19:5; Deut. 7:6; Deut. 14:1-2; 26:18; Psalms 135:4), all who serve Him in faith (Ezekiel 34:11-31; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 1:14)

Revelation 6:9-11

The phrase under the altar and the mention of blood recall the sacrificial blood poured at the base of the alter in Exodus 29:12. Those who had been slain may refer to believers killed during the removal of the first four seals (6:2,4,8) or generally to "the blood of prophets and saints, and all who were slain on earth" (18:24). Their being killed because of the word of God and their testimony for Christ os the same reason given for John's imprisonment on the island of Patmos (1:9). Since the "hour of trail" (I/e/, the tribulation period; 3:10) is focused on "earth dwellers," the deli here implies the "hour of trial" has not yet begun. The Lords just vengeance (Romans 12:19) for the martyrs begins in earnest in Revelation 16:4-7 and is not completed until 19:2. On the white robe, see note at 3:4-5. It is not known when the number of their fellow martyrs is completed.

- These two notes are from Study Bible Holman NKJV edition.

 

[Earburner]

Never said anything about that. You seem highly against anything that may be written by man. Do you not believe the Holy Spirit can work through people to put things together that perhaps me or you cannot? There is no limit on what the spirit can do through another person who allows the Holy Spirit to work with them, through prayers and reading the word

Lol. Apparently I must believe in the ability and power of the Holy Spirit to interpret the Bible to/me us, because I quote it all the time to people.

Unfortunately, most don't follow the directive of how we are to learn His thoughts and ways.
Prov.3[5] Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Nor do they know how to "lean on" the Mind of Christ within them, but instead they look to OTHERS to teach them, which of course most are scholarly taught themselves.

 

[Earburner]

@Earburner,

Malachi 3:16

The book of remembrance was the royal archives where the most significant events of a king's reign were recorded (Ezra 4:15; Ezra 5:17). As Mordecai was rewarded on the basis of the royal archives (Ester 2:23; 6:1-3), ,so it will be for all who fear God and treasure His name. Whether or not such heavenly records exist literally, the many biblical references to them show that God knows and will reward this those who belong to Him (1 Kings 19:18; Psalms 56:8; Isaiah 34:16; Daniel 7:10; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 20:12). God has already marked a day on His calendar when he will come with compassion to retrieve His people, His precious jewels (see Exodus 19:5; Deut. 7:6; Deut. 14:1-2; 26:18; Psalms 135:4), all who serve Him in faith (Ezekiel 34:11-31; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 1:14)

Revelation 6:9-11

The phrase under the altar and the mention of blood recall the sacrificial blood poured at the base of the alter in Exodus 29:12. Those who had been slain may refer to believers killed during the removal of the first four seals (6:2,4,8) or generally to "the blood of prophets and saints, and all who were slain on earth" (18:24). Their being killed because of the word of God and their testimony for Christ os the same reason given for John's imprisonment on the island of Patmos (1:9). Since the "hour of trail" (I/e/, the tribulation period; 3:10) is focused on "earth dwellers," the deli here implies the "hour of trial" has not yet begun. The Lords just vengeance (Romans 12:19) for the martyrs begins in earnest in Revelation 16:4-7 and is not completed until 19:2. On the white robe, see note at 3:4-5. It is not known when the number of their fellow martyrs is completed.

- These two notes are from Study Bible Holman NKJV edition.

In your understanding of Malachi 3:16, I agree with it, since much of it is historical, but as to your understanding of Revelation 6:9-11, I strongly disagree.

 

[MatthewG]

@Earburner,

Whatever you agree with me, or you may not agree with me on. Our knowledge doesn't mean nothing if we do not have love. So perhaps you have better understanding than me on things than other, not everyone is the same part of the body. Even still, it is for us to get along through the differences, regardless.

Not sure what else you wanna talk about but I rather just walk away and end the conversation because the knowledge doesn't matter as much as having love according to Paul and what He stated in 1 Corinthians 13.

13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Thank you and take care,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[Earburner]

1 Corinthians was written to the church or Corinthians,

But the Holy Spirit "inspired" it for all generations following, until the Lord makes His third and final appearance, to bring His people to be where He now is.

 

[MatthewG]

@Earburner


Through out the Bible there are principles that I am not against people learning about. Yes, the Holy Spirit resides with-in us today, and teaches us to be humble, gentle, kind, forbearing, long-suffering, faithful, it causes us to have love as expressed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13.

Whatever else you may have to say it is fine, however I am going to walk away now because there is nothing more to discuss, and if you would like to make your own topic about what you believe there is the Eschatology threads you can post here in the forums sir.

Thank you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I suppose that's the case here. Perhaps its an invitation to those who simply do not understand or believe Scripture. Thanks, I may have been seeing this from a different perspective.

@Philologos, can I ask a question? Are you midtrib in your end times view?

 

[Earburner]

Whatever you agree with me, or you may not agree with me on. Our knowledge doesn't mean nothing if we do not have love. So perhaps you have better understanding than me on things than other, not everyone is the same part of the body. Even still, it is for us to get along through the differences, regardless.

Not sure what else you wanna talk about but I rather just walk away and end the conversation because the knowledge doesn't matter as much as having love according to Paul and what He stated in 1 Corinthians 13.

Concerning those whose names were written in God's book of Remembrance, they are now asleep in Jesus, having been given the Gift of the Holy Spirit also on the Day of Pentecost, which is Jesus' 2nd appearance unto salvation for every man, symbolized as "white robes", for those who receive Him (the Holy Spirit). Revelation 3:20.

And though they are asleep, hid and resting in Christ, they are still waiting for the 3rd appearance of Jesus, of which Christ will bring with Him, because their names are now written in the book of Life.

BTW, did you know that the word "altar" is both synonymous and symbolic for the word "remembrance"?

 

[MatthewG]

No sir, I did not know that, @Earburner.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

if you would like to make your own topic about what you believe there is the Eschatology threads you can post here in the forums sir.

Lol. I don’t think there’s a single thread you could post anywhere in here about what you believe that you wouldn’t wouldn’t get into a debate. If the rule was you could only post if you agreed with the op, it sure would cut down on the number of posts though!
But then again, it wouldn’t help you to examine what you believe very critically with scripture. It would just help to cement you in place and to not see more and more in the word.