The Sabbath Day

[Enoch111]

If Paul was anti-Sabbath as "Christians" make him out to be, he would've insisted that his Gentile audience in Acts 13 hear him preach on Sunday instead of Sabbath.

Paul was not "anti-Sabbath" at all. He simply made it clear that under the New Covenant, Sabbath-keeping, as well as all the feasts, festivals, holy days, and ceremonial observances under the Law of Moses (including circumcision), were not applicable to Christians, particularly Gentile Christians. However, in those days, if Hebrew Christians still felt they should observe these things, they were told to regard them as "shadows" since the reality was (and is) Christ.

As to Paul insisting on preaching on the first day of the week (what is now known as Sunday) see Acts 20:7.

 

[GEN2REV]

As to Paul insisting on preaching on the first day of the week (what is now known as Sunday) see Acts 20:7.

That passage depicts Paul preaching to a crowd on the first day of the week.

It is not at all a proof text that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday.

 

[BarneyFife]

Make no mistake Dan, Christians are under law as well, a different covenant, but remember God doesn't change. Many of the laws of the law covenant we are still obligated to observe.

Rob, this is very confusing to me. Can you see why it might be a little perplexing?

In fact that is the basic meaning of sin, missing the mark of God's law. We now call it the law of the Christ.

But it was Christ who gave the law at Sinai.

Jesus made it rather clear at Mat 7:21 that it would only be those who does Jehovah's will that will receive salvation sir.

Jehovah's will is the law of Christ. God doesn't change. My head hurts, Rob. (just ribbin' ya a little)

It might be interesting to note that out of the 10 Commandments, observing the Sabbath is the only one that we are no longer obligated to obey.

It sure is interesting since I can't find that change anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Bob Estey]

Then you do not deserve to eat. And that is in Scripture.

Well, if I work really hard on the seventh day?

 

[Enoch111]

Well, if I work really hard on the seventh day?

That will not make up for six days of loafing.

 

[Enoch111]

That passage depicts Paul preaching to a crowd on the first day of the week.It is not at all a proof text that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday.

If Paul waited SEVEN DAYS to meet on the first day of the week, that automatically makes it a proof text (for those with spiritual discernment). He could have asked them to meet him the very next day, just as Christ could have met with doubting Thomas the very next day. But Jesus also waited seven days to teach you a lesson. But if you will not learn, then the lesson is meaningless. The Lord's Day was established by the Risen Lord. Take careful note.

 

[GEN2REV]

... it was Christ who gave the law at Sinai.

Yes, my dear brothers and sisters.

Yes.

 

[GEN2REV]

If Paul waited SEVEN DAYS to meet on the first day of the week, that automatically makes it a proof text (for those with spiritual discernment). He could have asked them to meet him the very next day, just as Christ could have met with doubting Thomas the very next day. But Jesus also waited seven days to teach you a lesson. But if you will not learn, then the lesson is meaningless. The Lord's Day was established by the Risen Lord. Take careful note.

Wow.

NONE of that is true.

Paul waited 7 days to preach on the 7th Day Saturday Sabbath.

Not on the 1st Day Sunday.

 

[Bob Estey]

That will not make up for six days of loafing.

Five days of loafing. We're not allowed to work on the sabbath.

 

[Enoch111]

Five days of loafing. We're not allowed to work on the sabbath.

That still leaves six days of loafing. Not a very promising prospect.

 

[BarneyFife]

No human can make a day holy. The OT holiness was really about a shadow of future things. Human efforts or lack of effort does not fulfill the deepest intentions of the law.

That future is now. Although the future is not what it used to be! Now we can obey the Sabbath commandment by entering into Christ...to rest in His life.

First comes the natural and then the spiritual.

Every law of God is fulfilled by entering into Christ. The true Sabbath is to rest from even our own thoughts...and ways of thinking. There is a spiritual alternative now to living according to the flesh...and this fulfills the words of the Lord...

"If you turn away your foot from the sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shall honour him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words:" Is. 58:13

The Sabbath rest of the Lord is a delight....walking in the light...walking in His presence. When we abide in Christ we don't do our own ways, neither do we speak our own words.

A keen mind can make quite a case for any doctrine. I once, many years ago, on the website of a ministry one would never think capable of such a feat, read an absolutely brilliant refutation of the perpetuity of the fourth commandment. It had me shaking in my boots. That was before it had occurred to me how brilliant the spirit was who inspired it.

99+% of Christians get their doctrines from teachers. The days of sitting at a desk and praying long and wrestling with God and prevailing with just a Bible and dictionary and/or concordance are long gone. We haven't exchanged hardly at all, but I suspect you've done a substantial amount of honest searching.

People say they study these things out for themselves but then I see them recommending the same teachers over and over. Now everyone is a Hebrew and Koine scholar and Interweb theologian. And you can have fries and a large Coke with your beliefs package.

Back as recently as the '80s and '90s the reasons given today for non-observance of the fourth commandment were never heard from laymen. When I was a youth in the Southern Baptist culture, no one ever talked of commandments being nailed to the cross; no one thought that Colossians 2, Romans 14 (oops), and Hebrews 4 meant that it was okay to mow your lawn on Sunday. The stores were closed. Even today, 11 states have laws prohibiting car sales, with 7 others allowing only limited hours.

The proliferation of anti-sabbatic theories would seem to be cause for confidence, one would think. To me, personally, it just seems like a virtual recurrence of the Tower of Babel.

I can't help but wonder, though, if, back during the post-Reagan years when blue laws were really starting to wind down, how many folks thought you could keep the Sabbath (which was believed to be Sunday) by "entering into Christ."

You'd think no one knew anything about Christianity back then. I sure had never heard of it.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

That passage depicts Paul preaching to a crowd on the first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 DOES NOT <depict Paul preaching to a crowd on the first day of the week.>
First, there is NO <crowd>; just 8 "waiting companions" plus 1 only "certain young man Tychicus who fell asleep" in the window in the THIRD and upper loft, the smallest room of the house!
Did Paul <preach> to the <crowd> while sitting with the 7 companions, bent over ON THE FLOOR where there were many lights needed because of the DARK, discussing their itinerary?!

NEVER COMPROMISE GOD'S TRUTH WITH THE DEVIL'S LIES! WHAT HAVE YOU GAINED? MULTIPLYING LIES BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID OF ANTICHRIST'S SUNDAY GO TO CHURCH MEN!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

That passage depicts Paul preaching to a crowd on the first day of the week.
It is not at all a proof text that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday.

Acts 20:7 DOES NOT <depict Paul preaching to a crowd on the first day of the week.>
Two, there is NO <preaching> mentioned, only IMPLIED.

What a joke that Luke uses "dialoguing" the word picked out by Sunday worship protagonists par excellence to 'PROVE' the apostles 'NEVER preached' but ONLY 'argued disagreement' on the Sabbath! The bigots!

Three, the 'preaching' definitely IMPLIED in Acts 20:7 exists through Luke's using NO FINITE VERB for to preach the Gospel but only the Church-ACTION-of "having been assembling together" in worship of course AT SOME POINT IN TIME, in this instance Acts 20:7 and Luke's use specifically of the in Greek PERFECT Participle which strictly designates the Moment of Beginning in the PAST continued in the PRESENT. In Acts 20:7, 7 Ἐν δὲ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων συνηγμένων ἡμῶν κλάσαι ἄρτον ὁ Παῦλος διελέγετο αὐτοῖς, μέλλων ἐξιέναι τῇ ἐπαύριον, παρέτεινέν τε τὸν λόγον μέχρι μεσονυκτίου

On the First Day of the week : Ἐν δὲ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων
us having assembling together STILL after having had assembling together BEFORE : συνηγμένων
to of us break bread (or to observe the Lord's Supper) : ἡμῶν κλάσαι ἄρτον.

It was before the First Day started (sunset Saturday) the disciples had come together and had had the Lord's Supper with some preaching of course; but it was on the First Day of the week when being together assembling STILL, that Paul dialogued with the group in the upper room.

 

[mailmandan]

Could you possibly give a reference to a post in which someone teaches that we are saved BY our works or that our works are meritorious toward justification (which is the entire means of atonement) in any way?

Because, honestly, such a claim would be absolutely ridiculous.

Sanctification or good works are merely fruit, or offerings.

They have no value whatsoever in worthiness for citizenship in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Our holiest thoughts, words, or deeds are all tainted with the filth of selfish motives.

I was recently in a discussion with a Roman Catholic on a different Christian forum site who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works, then afterwards, he contradicted himself by stating this below:

We are saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES:

Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
Eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass (John 6:53-56)
Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
Obeying his commandments (John 15:10)

His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.

Someone else from a different Christian forum site who attends the church of Christ made this statement - It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit.

A SDA made this statement - The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

There are others who teach we are saved by BOTH faith AND works and hold fast to "type 2 works salvation." From this site - We are justified by both faith and works. James 2:24 says we are justified by works and not by faith alone. You are simply double talking your way out of why Abraham was justified by works in James 2:21. James asks the question imply that Abraham was justified by works. It’s not saying faith that underlies works is what really saved him and not the works. James implies that Abraham was justified by works. That is what he is plainly saying that you don’t like. Yes, we are not first justified by works. Works only follow after we are first saved by God’s grace (Which is a process of salvation without works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace). Being saved by God’s grace is how we are first initially saved. But if works in no way saves, then you can not lift a finger for God, and still be saved in this life. In the Parable of the Talents, we learn that the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of His Lord, and yet the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This is just a sample.

 

[Robert Gwin]

To clarify, I was referring to the law of Moses.

In regards to doing God's will in order to receive salvation:

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

In regards to observing the Sabbath day:

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Amen to that Dan'l. We definitely be in agreement sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

No human can make a day holy. The OT holiness was really about a shadow of future things. Human efforts or lack of effort does not fulfill the deepest intentions of the law.

That future is now. Although the future is not what it used to be! Now we can obey the Sabbath commandment by entering into Christ...to rest in His life.

First comes the natural and then the spiritual.

Every law of God is fulfilled by entering into Christ. The true Sabbath is to rest from even our own thoughts...and ways of thinking. There is a spiritual alternative now to living according to the flesh...and this fulfills the words of the Lord...

"If you turn away your foot from the sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shall honour him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words:" Is. 58:13

The Sabbath rest of the Lord is a delight....walking in the light...walking in His presence. When we abide in Christ we don't do our own ways, neither do we speak our own words.

From what I take away from your post E, you do not believe we are under the Sabbath law anymore either. Many people still think we are under that law, yet for some reason choose to ignore it.

 

[Episkopos]

From what I take away from your post E, you do not believe we are under the Sabbath law anymore either. Many people still think we are under that law, yet for some reason choose to ignore it.

Jesus came to fulfill the law. How? By doing it for us as so many unfortunately have been led to believe? OR>>>> by inviting us INTO that fulfillment by abiding in Him?

Being under grace means we are fulfilling the righteous requirement of the law. When we walk as Jesus walked...are we not resting from our own works? ...our own thoughts? ...our own words? This is the purpose of the Sabbath. To rescue us from the pull of this world and from the sin and death that we are destined to inherit if we trust in ourselves to make it through in one piece. No one survives this temporal world. This world dimension is designed as a simulation of eternal reality. As such, we can fail without being eternally condemned. We are given many chances to hear the truth and enter into God's grace provision by faith. That is..until our time is up.

The mind of Christ takes care of the WHOLE law. Everything is now pointing to Christ. Those who take the law at face value are still under the law. Walking in resurrection life puts us above the law as there is no sin in Christ. When we are walking in the light of God's presence there is no law against it...only grace.

 

[Bob Estey]

That still leaves six days of loafing. Not a very promising prospect.

You're not giving me much to work with, brother.

 

[Robert Gwin]

If you put yourself under any of the OT law then you put yourself under all of it. For example, you are still required to sacrifice animals for sin, because that's what the OT law requires.

Matthew 7:21 -- "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven." says nothing about the OT law, but doing the Father's will.

If you believe that you are obligated to obey the OT law, including the 10 commandments, then you are obligated to keep the entire OT law. Galatians 3:10, "For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.”

That's what Scripture clearly says!

Not at all Jim, like I said Christians are not under the Sabbath Law, but there many of the laws in the Law covenant that still govern Christians. You still have to worship and serve Jehovah exclusively Mat 4:10, 22:37 and love your neighbor as yourself v 39. etc

 

[mailmandan]

Not at all Jim, like I said Christians are not under the Sabbath Law, but there many of the laws in the Law covenant that still govern Christians. You still have to worship and serve Jehovah exclusively Mat 4:10, 22:37 and love your neighbor as yourself v 39. etc

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete by the new covenant, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God has made obsolete the old covenant to put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8-10) Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3