--
You are being disingenuous by replying to my response sentence by sentence and not listening to all that I’ve said in context. Though to give you credit you did reply to my response below. This is what you deleted:
“It (the Sabbath) was intended as a day of rest and blessing. The Jews corrupted that holy day and Christ demonstrated that we can still observe it following His example as God originally intended.”
That is a far cry from teaching “nothing”.
Mark 2:27 is structured in such a way as to illicit certain questions of the Word/Jesus. Why did Jesus flip the emphasis of the Sabbath on the Pharisees? Could it be that they had made the Sabbath day into something it was never designed for?
The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath
Cmp.
Man was made for the Sabbath and not the Sabbath for the Man
One must look behind his teachings to better comprehend their meaning.
--
“It was intended as a day of rest and blessing. The Jews corrupted that holy day and Christ demonstrated that we can still observe it following His example as God originally intended.
--
God may have had other motives but you're not substantiating that claim with scripture. There is a much more practical approach to discerning Christ’s words in Mark 2:27 regarding the Sabbath than over-spiritualizing a 6000 year historical precedent. The Apostles of Christ continued to observe the Sabbath after the Resurrection and Jesus prophesied that some thirty years in the future that His followers should “pray that their flight from Jerusalem be not on the Sabbath”.
I have seen this dismissive technique
“spiritualizing “ before especially by those who resist “a better understanding” for fear of change.
(Mat 24:20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Which completely contradicts your supposition that the Sabbath is an every day occurrence or was to undergo any major transformation to an everyday occasion.
Certainly, anyone can continue to follow the basic Sabbath tenets each and every day of the week. But the vast majority of us have jobs and families and a multitude of other menial tasks that will naturally take our focus from meditating upon the Word of God & spiritual pursuits to the more mundane tasks like, “Has anyone taken out the trash?, Remember the staff meeting at 9am, Expense Reports due by 3pm, and pickup the kids from soccer practice 6pm, etc.”
--
“One of the best ways to learn about the Sabbath is experientially, i.e., actually practicing it.”
--
Matt 24:20 is a warning to the rebellious Jews who remained within the walls of Jerusalem and eventually perished in AD70.
The gates of the city were closed not allowing anyone to exit or enter the city. Jesus is actually stating should they uphold their "day" over getting out of the city (heeding his wanring) they will perish!!!
This actually works against your argument and not for it.
That may well be fine for full-time Pastors and some dedicated missionaries but for the rest of us Christian believers there are a host of non-spiritual enterprises that make up the bulk of our harried days. Are you a full time Pastor?
Yes and No depending on how you define full time pastor/minister.
I am trying to minister every day.
Yet more patronizing pablum and ‘know it all’ condescension. Do you have any more scriptures to back your wild licentious assertions for completely redefining one of the Ten Commanments? Or is all we have to look forward to from you is an endless stream of rehashes and cut ‘n paste sermonettes? It's been over a dozen posts and you've yet to get to the meat of your message.
I sense in you a strong resolve, which manifests itself through many fleshly and hurtful passions.
You are an intense man.
I like that.
The Sabbath is also a very practical weekly test of our obedience to God’s commandments.
(Exo 16:4) Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
The first recorded Sabbath transgression was Num. 15:32 A man was caught gathering sticks on the Sabbath. According to the express Word of the Lord, he was stoned to death outside the camp of the Israelites. Num 15:35-36 In Ex. 35:2 the death penalty was invoked for Sabbath transgression. Though we are no longer under the “curse of the Law” this former severe penalty should underscore the importance of obeying the Fourth Commandment.
. . . Still waiting for you to address my earlier post in which I listed Sabbath observance throughout history.
James,
I sense you are sensitive to me teaching you anything - I get that – as I said in my OP my students and I studied this subject intensely for twelve months and we entered the study with preconceived ideas which at times we needed to remind ourselves to put to one side, if we were to discover truth.
I have a Seventh Day Adventist friend who I have spoken with extensively over the past 5 years about this subject with some interesting results. He now acknowledges the keeping of the Sabbath is NOT a requirement of the Masters disciples. Though he still adheres to the body and its imposing requirements for the sake of peace – nonetheless he now sees more clearly on this matter.
The first recorded Sabbath transgression was Num. 15:32 A man was caught gathering sticks on the Sabbath. According to the express Word of the Lord, he was stoned to death outside the camp of the Israelites. Num 15:35-36 In Ex. 35:2 the death penalty was invoked for Sabbath transgression. Though we are no longer under the “curse of the Law” this former severe penalty should underscore the importance of obeying the Fourth Commandment.
The actual answer to this question is not as some would expect.
Eve and Adam were the first ones to break the Sabbath Day. Because Adam was the first one who sought to do his own pleasure and when he broke the Sabbath he caused God to BREAK His day of rest and caused him to work once more to restore that Rest.
This decision was not one of being forced out of His rest! He chose out of his great love and mercy for us that He did so.
So the first pair hearing the feet of the Angel walking in the Garden saw God act.
Sin interrupted Gods rest and the blessing of sanctification was broken because of sin.
When you referred to the Law of Moses which was added as a School Master to teach Israel of their need for a savior the Law and Offerings of the Sabbath were also designed to lead them into the Lord of the Sabbath…but sadly as you stated in Matt 24:20 many chose to uphold their days and desire for the temple worship than seek liberty in Jesus Christ.
So the essential lesson for all reading this post is that
Sin and its relationship to the
Sabbath.
This is a key to understanding the true Sabbath in Christ.
This may carry further meaning for you!
--
You are being disingenuous by replying to my response sentence by sentence and not listening to all that I’ve said in context. Though to give you credit you did reply to my response below. This is what you deleted:
“It (the Sabbath) was intended as a day of rest and blessing. The Jews corrupted that holy day and Christ demonstrated that we can still observe it following His example as God originally intended.”
That is a far cry from teaching “nothing”.
Mark 2:27 is structured in such a way as to illicit certain questions of the Word/Jesus. Why did Jesus flip the emphasis of the Sabbath on the Pharisees? Could it be that they had made the Sabbath day into something it was never designed for?
The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath
Cmp.
Man was made for the Sabbath and not the Sabbath for the Man
One must look behind his teachings to better comprehend their meaning.
--
“It was intended as a day of rest and blessing. The Jews corrupted that holy day and Christ demonstrated that we can still observe it following His example as God originally intended.
--
God may have had other motives but you're not substantiating that claim with scripture. There is a much more practical approach to discerning Christ’s words in Mark 2:27 regarding the Sabbath than over-spiritualizing a 6000 year historical precedent. The Apostles of Christ continued to observe the Sabbath after the Resurrection and Jesus prophesied that some thirty years in the future that His followers should “pray that their flight from Jerusalem be not on the Sabbath”.
I have seen this dismissive technique “spiritualizing
“ before especially by those who resist “a better understanding” for fear of change.
(Mat 24:20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Which completely contradicts your supposition that the Sabbath is an every day occurrence or was to undergo any major transformation to an everyday occasion.
Certainly, anyone can continue to follow the basic Sabbath tenets each and every day of the week. But the vast majority of us have jobs and families and a multitude of other menial tasks that will naturally take our focus from meditating upon the Word of God & spiritual pursuits to the more mundane tasks like, “Has anyone taken out the trash?, Remember the staff meeting at 9am, Expense Reports due by 3pm, and pickup the kids from soccer practice 6pm, etc.”
--
“One of the best ways to learn about the Sabbath is experientially, i.e., actually practicing it.”
--
Matt 24:20 is a warning to the rebellious Jews who remained within the walls of Jerusalem and eventually perish in AD70.
Not a good context given the inference Jesus is making. The gates of the city were closed not allowing anyone to exit or enter the city. Jesus is actually stating should they uphold their day over getting out of the city they will perish!!!
This actually works against your argument and not for it.
That may well be fine for full-time Pastors and some dedicated missionaries but for the rest of us Christian believers there are a host of non-spiritual enterprises that make up the bulk of our harried days. Are you a full time Pastor?
Yes and No depending on how you define full time pastor/minister.
I am trying to minister every day.
Yet more patronizing pablum and ‘know it all’ condescension. Do you have any more scriptures to back your wild licentious assertions for completely redefining one of the Ten Commanments? Or is all we have to look forward to from you is an endless stream of rehashes and cut ‘n paste sermonettes? It's been over a dozen posts and you've yet to get to the meat of your message.
I sense in you a strong resolve, which manifests itself through many fleshly and hurtful passions.
You are an intense man.
I like that.
The Sabbath is also a very practical weekly test of our obedience to God’s commandments.
(Exo 16:4) Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
The first recorded Sabbath transgression was Num. 15:32 A man was caught gathering sticks on the Sabbath. According to the express Word of the Lord, he was stoned to death outside the camp of the Israelites. Num 15:35-36 In Ex. 35:2 the death penalty was invoked for Sabbath transgression. Though we are no longer under the “curse of the Law” this former severe penalty should underscore the importance of obeying the Fourth Commandment.
. . . Still waiting for you to address my earlier post in which I listed Sabbath observance throughout history.
James,
I sense you are sensitive to me teaching you anything - I get that – as I said in my OP my students and I studied this subject intensely for twelve months and we entered the study with preconceived ideas which at times we needed to remind ourselves to put to one side, if we were to discover truth.
I have a Seventh Day Adventist friend who I have spoken with extensively over the past 5 years about this subject with some interesting results. He now acknowledges the keeping of the Sabbath is NOT a requirement of the Masters disciples. Though he still adheres to the body and its imposing requirements for the sake of peace – nonetheless he now sees more clearly on this matter.
The first recorded Sabbath transgression was Num. 15:32 A man was caught gathering sticks on the Sabbath. According to the express Word of the Lord, he was stoned to death outside the camp of the Israelites. Num 15:35-36 In Ex. 35:2 the death penalty was invoked for Sabbath transgression. Though we are no longer under the “curse of the Law” this former severe penalty should underscore the importance of obeying the Fourth Commandment.
.
The actual answer to this question is not as some would expect.
.
Eve and Adam were the first ones to break the Sabbath Day (which had no evening and morning!). Because Adam was the first one who sought to do his own pleasure and when he broke the Sabbath he caused God to BREAK His day of rest and caused him to work once more to restore that Rest.
This decision was not one of being forced out of His rest! He chose out of his great love and mercy for us that He did so.
.
So the first pair hearing the feet of the Angel walking in the Garden saw God act.
.
Sin interrupted Gods rest and the blessing of sanctification was broken because of sin.
.
When you referred to the Law of Moses which was added as a School Master to teach Israel of their need for a savior the Law and Offerings of the Sabbath were also designed to lead them into the Lord of the Sabbath…but sadly as you stated in Matt 24:20 many chose to uphold their days and desire for the temple worship than seek liberty in Jesus Christ.
So the essential lesson for all reading this post is that of
Sin and its relationship to the
Sabbath.
This is a key to understanding the true Sabbath in Christ.
Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. [sup]17[/sup] In his defense Jesus said to them,
“My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” John 5:17
So it was that Yahweh began working again to reinstitute the Sabbath. It has taken him thousands of years through his work with Israel and then Jesus Christ and still to come a millennium age before that final Sabbath Rest will be achieved.
So do we find Christ working and performing miracles on the Sabbath?
Jesus was physically and spiritually working with his Father to restore the Rest that was lost in Eden.
You will recall the Scribes and Pharisee often criticizing the Lord and his disciples for working on the Sabbath Day.
We now see his answer in a new light!
John 5:17
“My Father (Yahweh) has been working until now (from when?)
, and I (Jesus)
have been working.” (from his birth)
In fact my Father and I are doing the same work and you are accusing me of breaking the Sabbath when I am actually trying to reinstate it.
Mankind that broke the Sabbath because of sin – these Pharisees failed to realised the Masters whole life work was to assist his Father in restoring the Eden Sabbath.
Insight