The Second Coming of Christ is for JUDGMENT

[Davy]

That has caused me to rethink that passage which has perplexed me.

I used to think that the Beast will only have power during the 7th seal, but since the saints are taken up before the 7th seal is opened, his power must start with the opening of the 1st seal at the very beginning the Tribulation, Rev 6.

The 1st seal is the amalgamation of many nations (Muslim?) enabling them the have significant power in the Middle East. Having power over the saints is revealed with the 5th seal with the martyrdom of the saints. Rev 6:9

I really don't see it that way, because I focus on the 'events', and not the numbers of the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials.

On the 6th Seal, it has two parts. The latter part is about the day of Christ's 2nd coming, which is when He gathers His Church also, and He is revealed to the wicked coming in the clouds. Are we to think then at that point in Revelation, that everything written after that happens when the Church is gone? No, absolutely not. But that's how some men like to teach it.

Rev.6:1-2 about the rider on the white horse doesn't tell us that's the 1st Seal; it is assumed it is the first Seal. But look again, you won't find it mentioned. Instead it simply says The Lamb opens "one of the seals". Why might that be? Why doesn't it say the first seal literally? Well, whats the event our Lord Jesus is showing us there?

It's about a rider on a white horse with a bow of cheap fabric (per the Greek), and wearing a crown. We know that's not about our Lord Jesus, simply because Jesus comes on a white horse wearing many crowns and wielding a sword that cuts both ways, per Rev.19. So the Rev.6 white horse rider represents the coming Antichrist who is coming to try and play Messiah to deceive. But that future false Messiah event doesn't actually happen on the 1st Seal timing. It happens later in the Seal events on a later Seal. Thus the fact that our Lord Jesus opened "one of the seals", is a pointer to try and get us to look deeper at this white horse rider event. That still doesn't explain why He gave that white horse rider event first though. But when we study His Olivet discourse along with the Seals in Rev.6, then it starts to become obvious why He gave that white horse rider event first...

Here's the first Sign our Lord Jesus give us to be watching for the end:

Matt 24:4-5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in My name, saying, 'I am Christ'; and shall deceive many.
KJV

The first Sign He gave there was to not let any man deceive us, and that linked with the idea of a false Christ. This example early in the Matt.24 chapter is about John's "many antichrists" idea, those who only claim to be Christ, but with no power to show it. But the later Matt.24:23-26 verses is actually about a singular Antichrist posing as a false Messiah with the supernatural power to work great signs and wonders to deceive.

The point really being, that the first Seal warning matches the first Sign our Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. If you continue you'll find the rest of the Seals align with the order of the Signs our Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse.

 

[Stan B]

The Antichrist placing the "abomination of desolation" idol indeed will occur in the middle of Daniel's symbolic "one week", and that latter 1260 day period is the actual time of "great tribulation" per our Lord Jesus in Matthew 24.

Although the antichrist will take his seat in the Temple in the middle of the tribulation, He must already be a prominent ruler at the very beginning of the tribulation, because the tribulation begins with him making a 7 year peace treaty with Israel, but at the midst he breaks the treaty.

Also, I wonder what place he might have in the 5th seal martyrdom of the saints.

 

[Davy]

Since the Tribulation is for the Jews (as I have already shown), you can stop opposing the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. The Rapture has always been imminent according to the words of Christ Himself.

You haven't shown anything. You just keep throwing out 'supposed' proofs. There is NO SCRIPTURE written in God's Word that proves a Pre-trib Rapture of the Church.

And that "imminent" idea, the early Pre-tribulationalists got from Jesus' Olivet discourse! They used where He said no man knows the day or the hour of His coming, but The Father only, along with the idea that He comes "as a thief in the night" (from 1 Thess.5). Well, the "thief in the night" idea originated by our Lord Jesus' parable of the thief breaking in given in His Olivet discourse!

So how is it, that the Pre-trib Rapture doctors claim Christ's Olivet discourse is NOT for the Church, but then they pick n' choose parts from it to use in their doctrine? Those men simply show their falseness and playing with the Scripture all over the place. It's funny how some can't see what they do.

 

[Davy]

Although the antichrist will take his seat in the Temple in the middle of the tribulation, He must already be a prominent ruler at the very beginning of the tribulation, because the tribulation begins with him making a 7 year peace treaty with Israel, but at the midst he breaks the treaty.

Also, I wonder what place he might have in the 5th seal martyrdom of the saints.

You mean Daniel's symbolic "one week" begins with the 7 year covenant of Dan.9:27. That's the first 1260 day period of the "one week". The "abomination of desolation" idol is setup after that first 1260 day period, and that is when the Antichrist will demand all to worship it, which is what the time "great tribulation" is especially about.

The "great tribulation" will be great in two ways:

1. for the deceived, they will have it great, chicken in every pot, as they will bow to the coming false Messiah, thinking he is God. But when our Lord Jesus does return... oh boy, they are going to suddenly be in a state of terrible shame! because they didn't wait on Him, but fell away to another in His place.

2. for Christ's elect, they will be persecuted, brow beaten, delivered up to councils and synagogues of Satan, hated by the whole world for staying on Christ and waiting for Him, even persecuted by some of their own loved ones who will not understand why they would reject the standing pseudo-Christ the majority will be accepting as God.

This is why the coming tribulation will great, and thus a time on earth that has never been before, nor ever will be again.

3. there is one more factor that will make it great and time like none before. The coming false-Messiah will be the devil himself, here on earth in person, playing Messiah in Jerusalem. In Isaiah 14 God is mocking Lucifer, as Lucifer said he will sit over the congregation, meaning God's people, and that's what he will do at the end of this world, exalt himself in place of God, which is what Apostle Paul was showing in the 2 Thessalonans 2 chapter.