The Second Coming of Christ is for JUDGMENT

[Enoch111]

Just as the First Coming of Christ was for salvation, the Second Coming of Christ is for judgment and damnation. Just as Christ came in humility and humiliation at His First Advent, He will come WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY at His Second Advent (Mt 24:30).

There are many Christians who have failed to see this truth. Indeed there is much confusion about the Second Coming, with some even imagining that there is no difference between the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming. Some even think that the Second Coming equals the end of the world. Some do not even believe that there will be a battle of Armageddon. Some do not believe that God will gather all Jews from around the world at that time so that they are confronted by their true Messiah in Israel, who will stand on the Mount of Olives and split it in two. Some do not believe that after His Second Coming, Christ will literally establish His literal reign on earth for one thousand years. And the list goes on. Utter confusion when there should be perfect clarity.

It is truly amazing to think that Enoch – the seventh from Adam (who lived on earth around 3400 BC) – prophesied about the Second Coming of Christ to execute judgment: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him. (Jude 1:14, 15)

We see the Second Coming of Christ in Revelation 19:11-21. This is a literal, real, visible, tangible Second Coming with Christ returning to earth with all His saints and angels (called “clouds” because of their white and shining appearance): Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

This verse tells us that (1) every person on earth will see the majestic Second Coming of Christ, and (2) every person – the whole unbelieving and ungodly world – will weep and wail and mourn because Christ is coming to judge them in His wrath.

This is further detailed in 2 Thessalonians 1: 6-10 and Revelation 6:15-17:
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power; When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day...

...And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

In view of the certainty of the Second Coming of Christ, God has given a warning to every person on earth to repent. Indeed He has commanded ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent (Acts 17:30,31): And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him [Christ] from the dead.

 

[Davy]

Christ's 2nd coming will be with power, and with a sword that cuts both ways. He is not coming meek as a Lamb this next time.

And the battle of Armageddon will occur on that day also, along with the gathering of His saints. He is only coming back ONCE more, not a 3rd time.

In Acts 1, Matthew 24, Mark 13, 1 Thessalonians 4, and Zechariah 14 is revealed the hard facts about His coming and gathering of His Church.

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus showed His coming to gather His Church would be immediately AFTER... the tribulation. In the Matt.24 example He showed the gathering of the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him from Heaven. And in the Mark 13 example He showed the gathering of the Church still alive on earth, which is about the so-called rapture of the Church. Both ideas were covered by Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 about Christ's coming and gathering of the Church.

In Zechariah 14, He showed His coming is on the "day of the Lord". He also showed that is the day He gathers His Church per the Revelation 16:15 warning within the 6th Vial timing when He warned that He comes "as a thief".

In the 1 Thessalonians 5 and 2 Peter 3 Scripture, Apostles Paul and Peter showed the "day of the Lord" is the FINAL day of this world when this present world will be over. Peter showed it is when God's consuming fire will be poured out destroying men's works off this earth. In Zech.14, Christ comes to fight the battle on that "day of the Lord", bringing all the saints with Him to Jerusalem where His feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives. That is the same day of the battle of Armageddon. He gathers His Church on that day while He descends to earth in a cloud, and He and His Church go to Jerusalem on earth, as written.

 

[Timtofly]

Christ's 2nd coming will be with power, and with a sword that cuts both ways. He is not coming meek as a Lamb this next time.

And the battle of Armageddon will occur on that day also, along with the gathering of His saints. He is only coming back ONCE more, not a 3rd time.

In Acts 1, Matthew 24, Mark 13, 1 Thessalonians 4, and Zechariah 14 is revealed the hard facts about His coming and gathering of His Church.

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus showed His coming to gather His Church would be immediately AFTER... the tribulation. In the Matt.24 example He showed the gathering of the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him from Heaven. And in the Mark 13 example He showed the gathering of the Church still alive on earth, which is about the so-called rapture of the Church. Both ideas were covered by Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 about Christ's coming and gathering of the Church.

In Zechariah 14, He showed His coming is on the "day of the Lord". He also showed that is the day He gathers His Church per the Revelation 16:15 warning within the 6th Vial timing when He warned that He comes "as a thief".

In the 1 Thessalonians 5 and 2 Peter 3 Scripture, Apostles Paul and Peter showed the "day of the Lord" is the FINAL day of this world when this present world will be over. Peter showed it is when God's consuming fire will be poured out destroying men's works off this earth. In Zech.14, Christ comes to fight the battle on that "day of the Lord", bringing all the saints with Him to Jerusalem where His feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives. That is the same day of the battle of Armageddon. He gathers His Church on that day while He descends to earth in a cloud, and He and His Church go to Jerusalem on earth, as written.

You say Jesus is only coming once at the end of His Second Coming? Are you claiming Jesus did not show up for His Own Second Coming? The vials were not even supposed to happen. It was the middle of a celebration, that Satan inturrupted. Jesus had to withdraw from earth and wait in Heaven for 3.5 years. Then Jesus returns to put an end to Satan's 3.5 years. If the church did her job, that is what 16:15 was warning. The church should be turning all hearts to God NOW!! When Jesus returns as a thief, it will be months, even before the Second Coming. If the world turns to God before the Second Coming, then Satan will not get 3.5 years, and the 7 vials will not have to be used. There will still be Armageddon, because that is the last harvest of lost souls.

Perhaps killing humans sounds too harsh, but all who are not in Christ are killed and sent to hell. It is not getting things better. It is the end of Grace. The church needs to do her job, and even if some refuse, they will not live much longer on this earth. This is a harvest of all on earth one way or the other. The best way is to accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah and accept the Atonement. But it will be like a thief, and after that it only gets harder to accept Christ. The 3.5 years of Satan, if it happens, the only safe thing to do is have your head chopped off. If not the curse of 666 will show on all foreheads. Those humans with 666 are removed from the Lamb's book of life and will go to hell, and after 1000 years, thrown into the lake of fire. Those are the only two choices. The warning is to prevent all that, months before it may happen.

 

[Davy]

You say Jesus is only coming once at the end of His Second Coming? Are you claiming Jesus did not show up for His Own Second Coming?

The pre-trib doctors really have you confused. What I showed you is direct from the Bible Scripture. I didn't pull any punches. You have to have actually studied those Scripture examples and pull them all together in the mind. Allowing men to insert 'fragments' into your thinking like the baskets of fragments gathered up after feeding the five thousand, will keep you from putting all those Scripture points together in your mind. Our Lord Jesus warned us against allowing that, when He told His disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees (Matthew 16:5-12).

Jesus does not return prior to the tribulation, and then again at the end of the tribulation. Is that clear enough for you? John Darby's preaching of a pre-tribulational rapture of the Church was a doctrine of men first taught in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain. It ADDS a false coming of Christ prior to the tribulation that is NOT written in God's Word. Jesus emphatically revealed His coming will be AFTER the tribulation as per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. And there He showed the gathering of His Church also. Those events parallel what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about Christ's coming to gather His Church.

The vials were not even supposed to happen. It was the middle of a celebration, that Satan inturrupted. Jesus had to withdraw from earth and wait in Heaven for 3.5 years. Then Jesus returns to put an end to Satan's 3.5 years. If the church did her job, that is what 16:15 was warning. The church should be turning all hearts to God NOW!! When Jesus returns as a thief, it will be months, even before the Second Coming. If the world turns to God before the Second Coming, then Satan will not get 3.5 years, and the 7 vials will not have to be used. There will still be Armageddon, because that is the last harvest of lost souls.

The Vials happen while the beast system is reigning, which is only for the last days of this world just prior to Christ's coming. And the FINAL Vial is the pouring out of God's cup of wrath upon the wicked on the LAST DAY. That is the specific wrath which Apostle Paul said the Church is not appointed to. It is the "sudden destruction" event upon them which Paul spoke of in that same 1 Thessalonians 5 Chapter.

1 Thess 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
KJV

Haven't you read that? Paul linked the time at the end when those deceived will be saying it's a time of "Peace and safety". And the time he linked that "sudden destruction" that follows is that "day of the Lord" that comes "as a thief in the night".

The "as a thief in the night" is a time marker. It marks the LAST DAY of this world. It is a Sign that Jesus gave for the day of His coming in His Olivet discourse, about the thief breaking in. That is the day Jesus showed when His coming to gather His Church is, and also fight Armageddon:

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV

On the 6th Vial in verse 15 above Jesus is warning His Church that He comes "as a thief". That means His coming to gather His Church has still... not yet happened at that point. The Pre-tribulational doctors try to tell you it has already happened by that point, but they lie against God's Word. The next verse 16 is about Jesus gathering the nations to battle on the last day, for the battle of Armageddon, which is who He will pour out His cup of wrath upon. Then the 7th Vial happens to represent that day of destruction upon the wicked on the "day of the Lord" which will come "as a thief in the night."

Therefore, Jesus coming "as a thief" is not to be a surprise for His Church. That means we are to be expecting His coming and on watch, so we will prevent the symbolic thief from breaking in at midnight. But for the wicked and deceived, they will be surprised on that day, for they will not be expecting Christ's coming, nor that "sudden destruction" on that "day of the Lord", as He will come upon them "as a thief" like He said there in Rev.16. That His coming to gather His Church happens on this particular last day of this world is the Truth is further proven by what Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 5 regarding the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night", and the deceived having the "sudden destruction" happen upon them. It is even further proven by 2 Peter 3:10 when he showed the "day of the Lord" will involve the event of God's consuming fire burning man's works off the earth, which links to the 7th Vial being poured out on the last day.

But what are the Pre-tribulationalist doctors falsely teaching instead? Some of them now really try to confuse this by saying the "day of the Lord" begins at the start of the great tribulation! That idea is totally false. The "day of the Lord" will happen only on the very last day of this world, which is why God said it is a day of destruction upon the earth as He told His OT prophets, which Apostle Paul and Peter preached also.

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus does not return prior to the tribulation, and then again at the end of the tribulation. Is that clear enough for you?

TOTALLY FALSE. Here is the first passage that tells Christians not to be troubled, since the Rapture has nothing to do with the Tribulation. These are the words of Christ Himself:

JOHN 14: I WILL COME AGAIN AND RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [interpretation: don't even talk about the Tribulation]
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Christians need to understand that the Tribulation is for unsaved Jews, and is called "the time of JACOB'S [ISRAEL'S] trouble". It has no connection to the Church.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [THE JEWS]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [THE JEWS] shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1)

JEREMIAH 30: THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE
4And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

ZECHARIAH 13: 8,9: SEVERE PRUNING OF THE JEWS
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people [THE JEWS]: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

 

[Stan B]

Just as the First Coming of Christ was for salvation, the Second Coming of Christ is for judgment and damnation.

WRONG!!

After the sixth seal, the times of the gentiles are over as the 144,000 Jews are sealed, and the saints are taken up to the throne of God. Rev 7. "I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb". “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation. Rev 7:9-14

The Great White Throne Judgement does not take place until after the Millenium.

 

[Enoch111]

The Great White Throne Judgement does not take place until after the Millenium.

This thread has nothing to do with the Great White Throne Judgment. Here is the Second Coming (Rev 19:11)

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

 

[Stan B]

This thread has nothing to do with the Great White Throne Judgment. Here is the Second Coming (Rev 19:11)

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

The Second Coming takes place before the 7th seal is opened and the saints are gathered to the Throne of God. Rev 7:9++

When the 7th seal is opened, the Bowls of God's wrath are poured out up those who remain in earth. But this is all done by the Angels administering the 7th Seal. Meanwhile Christ is celebrating with His Bride in Heaven. Rev 19

Then He brings the Tribulation to a close, as He returns with His saints to set up the Millenial Kingdom, a Kingdom wherein He rules the world with a rod of iron.

 

[Timtofly]

The Second Coming is the Celebration Week that starts the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is the 1000 year reign of Christ.

If Satan gets his 3.5 years, it happens on Wednesday of that week. It splits the week in half. That is the only time that Satan gets any time. The 3 years leading up to the Second Coming is the time of Jacob's trouble and the full harvest of all human souls. Any souls left will determine if Satan even gets 3.5 years. The vials cannot happen until after Satan's 3.5 years. The battle of Armageddon only happens on Sunday at the end of the week. It is the final harvest. Then the Day of the Lord starts, known as the 1000 year millennium reign of Christ.

Jacobs trouble is the Trumpets and Thunderings. Because the 7th Trumpet is sounded the whole celebration week, known as the Second Coming. The 7th Trumpet will also have to sound the whole 3.5 year period, if Satan has souls to turn into 666 slave workers. Yes the 7th Trumpet sounds those last 3.5 days when Wednesday resumes and the rest of the Second Coming week ends. It is these last 3.5 days, during the last half of the 7th Trumpet will the vials be poured out on the 666 people, Satan, and the false prophet. Along with the image, you all call antichrist. Any one left will fight in and be killed during the white horse and Jesus with a sword in His mouth, the battle of Armageddon in the plain of Megiddo. The white horse is the second part of the Second Coming. Only because the first half of the Second Coming was split by Satan. If the church does it's job and a global revival happens where God heals, and all turn to Christ, the Second Coming week will not need Christ to appear twice. The week will not be split in half. Satan will not get his 3.5 years, and no human will have to expose the number 666 past the time it stopped. The Second Coming was the end of Adam's 6000 year punishment of work and labor. Any one on earth past the end, will have to wear 666, because the time has expired, and work can only be done if one has 666 on their foreheads. Those who gladly get their heads chopped off, agree that work and labor are no longer required, and these smart people is the first resurrection after the Second Coming to start their new lives in the 1000 year reign of Christ. However if they accept the Atonement of Christ before the Second Coming, it will be even smarter than taking the chance of being able to get one's head chopped off.

 

[Davy]

TOTALLY FALSE. Here is the first passage that tells Christians not to be troubled, since the Rapture has nothing to do with the Tribulation. These are the words of Christ Himself:

JOHN 14: I WILL COME AGAIN AND RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [interpretation: don't even talk about the Tribulation]
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

What you are saying is what is totally false. You've adopted an old blanket (man's doctrine) from the 1830s with holes in it and gotten comfortable with it. So it's difficult for you to let go of it.

There is NO RAPTURE idea in the John 14 verses. The Father's house is about the future Millennium temple of Ezekiel 40 forward, which will be ON THE EARTH. That is where Jesus will be and will reign from, with His faithful elect.

The 1 Thessalonians 4 Scripture does not teach a rapture to Heaven either. Instead, it teaches that upon Jesus' descending to this earth, He brings the 'asleep' saints with Him, and at the same time His saints still alive on earth are caught up to Him in the clouds on His way to Jerusalem. His feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives like Zechariah 14 says, which goes with 1 Thessalonians 4. Jerusalem on earth is where He will reign from, even as The Father promised per Psalms 2.

The fact that you don't know these things as written in God's Word shows how deep you have succumbed to men's false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture theory.

Christians need to understand that the Tribulation is for unsaved Jews, and is called "the time of JACOB'S [ISRAEL'S] trouble". It has no connection to the Church.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [THE JEWS]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [THE JEWS] shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1)

Christian brethren actually do NOT need to believe the falseness you are spouting from men's doctrines.

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, where that Daniel 12:1 tribulation marker is also given, Jesus was speaking to HIS CHURCH. And amazing how the original Pre-trib Rapture theory included Christ's warnings from His Olivet discourse about His coming being meant for His Church! For what you have said to be true, then you would have to scratch all the Pre-trib Rapture teachings that use Christ's Olivet discourse about the "thief in the night", which is where pre-trib got the idea that Jesus can come at any moment!

JEREMIAH 30: THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE

4And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

You need to catch up your Bible learning, for the old covenant is DEAD. God's people are NOW under the NEW COVENANT JESUS CHRIST, that is, those of them that believe. The time of Jacob's trouble will be upon the whole world, not just one little area of the world. This is easy to know for anyone who studies Christ's Book of Revelation, which tells us the dragon will have power over the saints for 42 months, and the whole world will worship him, excepting those whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world (Rev.13).

ZECHARIAH 13: 8,9: SEVERE PRUNING OF THE JEWS
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people [THE JEWS]: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

For that last two phrases, they are NOT ONLY about Israel that will say that. They include believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus. BOTH together are believers on Christ, making up His CHURCH. You should believe what Apostle Paul showed in Romans 9 when he quoted from the Book of Hosea regarding the Church which includes believing Gentiles.

But your interpretation above shows you are listening to orthodox Jews with that Jew nationality idea.

 

[Timtofly]

What you are saying is what is totally false. You've adopted an old blanket (man's doctrine) from the 1830s with holes in it and gotten comfortable with it. So it's difficult for you to let go of it.

There is NO RAPTURE idea in the John 14 verses. The Father's house is about the future Millennium temple of Ezekiel 40 forward, which will be ON THE EARTH. That is where Jesus will be and will reign from, with His faithful elect.

The 1 Thessalonians 4 Scripture does not teach a rapture to Heaven either. Instead, it teaches that upon Jesus' descending to this earth, He brings the 'asleep' saints with Him, and at the same time His saints still alive on earth are caught up to Him in the clouds on His way to Jerusalem. His feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives like Zechariah 14 says, which goes with 1 Thessalonians 4. Jerusalem on earth is where He will reign from, even as The Father promised per Psalms 2.

The fact that you don't know these things as written in God's Word shows how deep you have succumbed to men's false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture theory.




Christian brethren actually do NOT need to believe the falseness you are spouting from men's doctrines.

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, where that Daniel 12:1 tribulation marker is also given, Jesus was speaking to HIS CHURCH. And amazing how the original Pre-trib Rapture theory included Christ's warnings from His Olivet discourse about His coming being meant for His Church! For what you have said to be true, then you would have to scratch all the Pre-trib Rapture teachings that use Christ's Olivet discourse about the "thief in the night", which is where pre-trib got the idea that Jesus can come at any moment!



You need to catch up your Bible learning, for the old covenant is DEAD. God's people are NOW under the NEW COVENANT JESUS CHRIST, that is, those of them that believe. The time of Jacob's trouble will be upon the whole world, not just one little area of the world. This is easy to know for anyone who studies Christ's Book of Revelation, which tells us the dragon will have power over the saints for 42 months, and the whole world will worship him, excepting those whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world (Rev.13).




For that last two phrases, they are NOT ONLY about Israel that will say that. They include believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus. BOTH together are believers on Christ, making up His CHURCH. You should believe what Apostle Paul showed in Romans 9 when he quoted from the Book of Hosea regarding the Church which includes believing Gentiles.

But your interpretation above shows you are listening to orthodox Jews with that Jew nationality idea.

Satan does not have any saints in his 3.5 years. This time, if it happens, is the midweek interruption told by Daniel that stops the daily sacrifice midweek. The church, the 144K, all the sheep and wheat harvest already happened. No one is left on earth, except those still rejecting God's Atonement. The 6 Trumpets and 7 thunderings have already finished. The only time left will be the last 3.5 days of the Second Coming week, and then the 1000 year reign starts. Either people on earth prepare for Armageddon on the last Sunday, or the last 3.5 days of Armageddon prep, will happen after Satan gets his 3.5 years, known as the Great Tribulation. God only has two witnesses. They will be reigning fire upon those with the 666 mark. They will be telling folks to avoid hell, by getting their head chopped off. No saints, but only the two choices of 666 or decapitation. That is how Revelation plays out.

 

[Stan B]

What you are saying is what is totally false. You've adopted an old blanket (man's doctrine) from the 1830s with holes in it and gotten comfortable with it. So it's difficult for you to let go of it.

Davy, a very well crafted summary. My only objection to what you have said is that you have left nothing for me to pick apart!!

I don't understand what is happening with Enoch lately. He used to be correct right down the line, but it seems that his train has run off the tracks recently. :-(

 

[Stan B]

the dragon will have power over the saints for 42 months,(Rev.13).

That has caused me to rethink that passage which has perplexed me.

I used to think that the Beast will only have power during the 7th seal, but since the saints are taken up before the 7th seal is opened, his power must start with the opening of the 1st seal at the very beginning the Tribulation, Rev 6.

The 1st seal is the amalgamation of many nations (Muslim?) enabling them the have significant power in the Middle East. Having power over the saints is revealed with the 5th seal with the martyrdom of the saints. Rev 6:9

 

[Timtofly]

That has caused me to rethink that passage which has perplexed me.

I used to think that the Beast will only have power during the 7th seal, but since the saints are taken up before the 7th seal is opened, his power must start with the opening of the 1st seal at the very beginning the Tribulation, Rev 6.

The 1st seal is the amalgamation of many nations (Muslim?) enabling them the have significant power in the Middle East. Having power over the saints is revealed with the 5th seal with the martyrdom of the saints. Rev 6:9

No, the first 3 seals have been opened. We are already in the end time events. About 8.5 months of the first 42 month period, or the first half of Daniel's 70th set of years. The second half has been erased from history, Matthew 24:22
"Indeed, if the length of this time had not been limited, no one would survive; but for the sake of those who have been chosen, its length will be limited."

There is no coming Antichrist, and Satan will only be revealed after the harvest. It definitely will not be before the 7th seal.

 

[Stan B]

No, the first 3 seals have been opened. We are already in the end time events. About 8.5 months of the first 42 month period, or the first half of Daniel's 70th set of years.

There is no coming Antichrist

A couple of the weirdest expostulations I have ever heard.

I don't recall the first three seals having been opened. I must have slept in that day. What date it happen??

 

[Timtofly]

A couple of the weirdest expostulations I have ever heard.

I don't recall the first three seals having been opened. I must have slept in that day. What date it happen??

What is the point in dating events, if you are going to sleep through them? The church is asleep and needs to wake up. There is no news yet of people crowding into churches figuring out who Jesus Christ is. Of course the tribulation does not make sense to most people. You are the one claiming seals have been opened according to your own interpretation. The beast is Satan and has already decieved the church and the whole world. That is why no one can figure out when events will happen.

 

[Stan B]

The beast is Satan and has already decieved the church and the whole world. That is why no one can figure out when events will happen.

This is where you get off on the wrong track. The Beast is not Satan!! He is merely a servant of Satan, the one who gives power to the Beast! The Beast appears long before Satan is cast out of Heaven!

 

[Stan B]

What is the point in dating events, if you are going to sleep through them?

That is a disgustingly ignorant response!

Why don’t you just admit that you not only have any information of the dates you claim, but you are merely manufacturing deliberate gross false teaching!!

 

[Davy]

Satan does not have any saints in his 3.5 years. This time, if it happens, is the midweek interruption told by Daniel that stops the daily sacrifice midweek. The church, the 144K, all the sheep and wheat harvest already happened. No one is left on earth, except those still rejecting God's Atonement.

Lot of that is what you've been taught by men, but is not written in God's Word.

The Antichrist placing the "abomination of desolation" idol indeed will occur in the middle of Daniel's symbolic "one week", and that latter 1260 day period is the actual time of "great tribulation" per our Lord Jesus in Matthew 24.

The Pre-tribulationalists wrongly teach that the Church is raptured prior to that time, but that is not true. It is written that Jesus returns only ONCE more, and that is when He will gather His Church. He showed us what timing that will be, emphatically...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

In Mark 13:24-27 is the other gathering version that goes along with what Paul taught in 1 Thess.4. This version is about the 'asleep' saints being gathered from Heaven, which are those Paul said Jesus will bring with Him per 1 Thess.4.

It's up to you what you choose to believe. But you're not going to convince someone like me that has actually studied enough of God's Word to know our Lord Jesus comes to gather us after the tribulation.

The 6 Trumpets and 7 thunderings have already finished. The only time left will be the last 3.5 days of the Second Coming week, and then the 1000 year reign starts. Either people on earth prepare for Armageddon on the last Sunday, or the last 3.5 days of Armageddon prep, will happen after Satan gets his 3.5 years, known as the Great Tribulation. God only has two witnesses. They will be reigning fire upon those with the 666 mark. They will be telling folks to avoid hell, by getting their head chopped off. No saints, but only the two choices of 666 or decapitation. That is how Revelation plays out.

The 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe of Rev.11 is when we are shown Christ immediately takes reign and that represents the time of His 2nd coming and gathering of His Church. When He appears to the wicked is the same day the Church is gathered; that is what God's written Word shows. Apostle Paul and Peter both showed this also when they linked the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night". In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, our Lord Jesus linked the day of His coming for His Church with the "as a thief" idea. In Rev.16:15 on the 6th Vial Jesus is still warning His Church on earth that He comes "as a thief".

Therefore, Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave us the emphatic time of His coming and gathering of the Church on the last day of this world, the "day of the Lord", which is the same day He will end the tribulation and thus Antichrist's reign.

 

[Enoch111]

The Pre-tribulationalists wrongly teach that the Church is raptured prior to that time, but that is not true.

Since the Tribulation is for the Jews (as I have already shown), you can stop opposing the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. The Rapture has always been imminent according to the words of Christ Himself.