The seed of Israel

[robert derrick]

I suggest nothing, I simply opost the Scriptures as written!

YOur proposed teaching (key YOURS) is a mish mosh of literal acceptance and allegorical interpretations and confusing definitions that seem to lead to crazed endings. I am not sure I can understand this well.

I am not sure I can understand this well.

I know you can't, because you won't even try to do that much, so that just maybe you could correct it for me. You are the kind of person who doesn't want to even understand something, that you're not already used to hearing.

then you reject the bible for your own interpretation.

How could you possibly know that, since you acknowledge you have no clue what I'm talking about?

Do you even know what you are talking about?

I insist on mature respect of others. I at least learn what they are trying to say, before rejecting it out of hand. And after learning, if I disagree, I show why point by point.

I don't mind being disagreed with, but in fact welcome it, if it is accompanied with Scripture and sounder reading of Scripture than my own.

In this area of study at least, you are less than useful, but are just an annoyance of disrespect for the study of others.

All you have to show for it, is how you just don't like it, and so you must be the kid in the photo with the big slurpy.

 

[amigo de christo]

Ok. I got a problem here. If Israel was under a covenant relationship with God, and they are going to be saved, just because they are Israel, can somebody tell me why, in the Book of Revelation, are the tribes of Ephraim and Dan missing? Those two tribes were a part of Israel, part of the 10 lost tribes, but they are not mentioned. certainly, there are Danite and Ephraimite descendants out in the world to day. So they won't be saved, or how does that work? Wasn't the covenant made with them, too?

Dan was replaced by mannesah . Dont ask me why , i dont know .
But i noticed the tribe of Dan was not mentioned , yet manessah IS . There is a reason for this . Though i do not yet know why this is the case .

 

[Cassandra]

Dan and Ephraim were idolatrous, so they were removed. But wasn't the covenant God made with Israel before the time of Jeroboam? So not all of Israel that was under the covenant is under the covenant. Anyway, that is what it looks like. God has stern words for Ephraim in Hosea:
4v.17 "
17“Ephraim is joined to idols,
Let him alone."

 

[1stCenturyLady]

In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. (Is 45:45)


All Israel of God is now saved, because all that are of Israel are Israel. No more is there any of Israel that are not Israel, because all of Israel are born of the seed of the God of Israel: the Redeemer out of Sion has come, and the prophecy of His coming is fulfilled.

Actually when the Great Tribulation starts, so will the saving of the rest of national Israel during the first 3.5 years when the two witnesses are prophesying.

 

[robert derrick]

Dan was replaced by mannesah . Dont ask me why , i dont know .
But i noticed the tribe of Dan was not mentioned , yet manessah IS . There is a reason for this . Though i do not yet know why this is the case .

One certain reason for why, is because it is not the 12 tribes of Israel of the Old Covenant, who's names were written in stones upon the high priest's garments.

The tribes in Rev 7 are therefore not the people of those tribes, because they are the people of the 12 tribes written in the NT: Christians. NT Churches of God.

All we have to do is read where they are written down: NT Scripture.

The 12 tribes written in the Old Covenant are not the 12 tribes written in the new, even as the church in the wilderness of old is not the church of Jesus Christ in the New.

The 12 tribes written in the New are also the names of the 12 tribes written upon the gates of New Jerusalem, which is the mother of all the tribes of Israel: the mother of all Christians. (Gal 4)

We now look to that city, who's builder and maker is God. Not the Jerusalem on this earth that is spiritually Sodom and Egypt, along with all them that worship in her false religion.

Now, why Dan is not named for any of them may be due to the evil prophecies for Dan.

 

[robert derrick]

Actually when the Great Tribulation starts, so will the saving of the rest of national Israel during the first 3.5 years when the two witnesses are prophesying.

Actually when the Great Tribulation starts.

The greatest tribulation ever on earth is the great one we are going through now. What does anyone going through great tribulation care about some future tribulation?

The saints have been entering the kingdom of God through much tribulation since the resurrection of Jesus.

So will the saving of the rest of national Israel during the first 3.5 years.

The rest of the unbelieving and and blind children of Abram are being saved now, not later. Today is the day.

Persecution of the world is upon the saints of God, not upon the unbelieving and blind, who reject Jesus as the Christ.

Just how is such a nation on earth supposed to 'convert' to Jesus on pains of death for any who do so?

Christians aren't persecuted for rejecting Christ, but are persecuted for refusing to call Him cursed.

When the two witnesses are prophesying.

Exactly what makes those two witnesses any better in preaching the Gospel of salvation than Jesus was? Or His apostles? Or His faithful ministers today?

NT teaching must always be applied to all prophecy of Scripture: If any believe not Jesus, nor Paul, nor ministers today, neither will any believe one that rose from the dead or breathed fire out of their mouths. And no one will believe Jesus, nor Paul, nor those today, nor those two tomorrow, if they do not believe Moses, the prophets, Jesus Christ, and the apostles:

If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

This is especially true for the wilfully blind and unbelieving children of Abram, who only read Scripture with eyes to crucify Jesus afresh if given opportunity, and will have the two witnesses killed and left for dead in their street, while they enjoy their grotesque corruption of Purim gift giving.

Scripture says we are not appointed unto wrath, and yet you are saying that those 'future' converts will be saved by wrath?

National 'Israel' yesterday since the cross, and today, and up to the 1st resurrection is a name only.

God does not have two different Israel's. Neither does He have two differents seeds of promise: only one seed, which is Jesus Christ, and only one Israel, which is the risen' God of Israel's.

There is only one hope for any children of flesh today, which is Jesus, and if any of them wait to see Him come down out of heaven with power and glory, so that they can believe by sight, then they will have waited too long and will be appointed to the wrath of the Lamb upon the wicked servants of that Wicked one.

 

[robert derrick]

Actually when the Great Tribulation starts, so will the saving of the rest of national Israel during the first 3.5 years when the two witnesses are prophesying.

If this is a reference to the first resurrection being before this time you speak of, then it is in error.

There is always one or two Scriptures that put end all controversy over Scriptural prophecy:

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus' main purpose for coming a second time to earth is to receive His own unto Himself and meet with them in the air: the first resurrection.

There is no second coming and then third some years later.

And this must also be the case, because there are only two resurrections in Scripture: the first for the saints of God before His reign on earth, and the next for all the dead since Adam, including them during His reign, some to life found written in the Lamb's book of life, and the rest to everlasting shame.

Also, the first resurrection is not in 'parts' or phased in. Scripture is clear that it is all at once, all the dead in Christ and all that are alive and remain.

Therefore, the first resurrection is confirmed to be after the saints going thru much tribulation, which will continue even up to the last hour of judgment. (Rev 14:6,13)

The last of the great tribulation on earth is not for any single nation, but is the last of persecution on earth to purify the saints in Christ Jesus. After that resurrection, will then be the plagues of wrath upon them appointed to it, after being left on earth, and that wrath will come from the Lamb in the air.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am not sure I can understand this well.

I know you can't, because you won't even try to do that much, so that just maybe you could correct it for me. You are the kind of person who doesn't want to even understand something, that you're not already used to hearing.

then you reject the bible for your own interpretation.

How could you possibly know that, since you acknowledge you have no clue what I'm talking about?

Do you even know what you are talking about?

I insist on mature respect of others. I at least learn what they are trying to say, before rejecting it out of hand. And after learning, if I disagree, I show why point by point.

I don't mind being disagreed with, but in fact welcome it, if it is accompanied with Scripture and sounder reading of Scripture than my own.

In this area of study at least, you are less than useful, but are just an annoyance of disrespect for the study of others.

All you have to show for it, is how you just don't like it, and so you must be the kid in the photo with the big slurpy.

WoW! Don't go into mind reading! You suck at it. Your arrogant think you can know me attitude notwithstanding, I just found your position a muddle of thoughts without much coherence. No attack, no rejection, just couldn't figure out the point of your "thinking".

YOu are very rude and impolite when you feel slighted.

 

[robert derrick]

WoW! Don't go into mind reading! You suck at it. Your arrogant think you can know me attitude notwithstanding, I just found your position a muddle of thoughts without much coherence. No attack, no rejection, just couldn't figure out the point of your "thinking".

YOu are very rude and impolite when you feel slighted.

Your proposed teaching (key YOURS) is a mish mosh of literal acceptance and allegorical interpretations and confusing definitions that seem to lead to crazed endings. I am not sure I can understand this well. Then you reject the bible for your own interpretation.

No attack, no rejection, just couldn't figure out the point of your "thinking".

Nice revisionism.

So, if you want me to help you figure it out the point, choose one in particular, and I'll do my best.

Otherwise, this has been a useless waste of time for me.

Correct me, or move on.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your proposed teaching (key YOURS) is a mish mosh of literal acceptance and allegorical interpretations and confusing definitions that seem to lead to crazed endings. I am not sure I can understand this well. Then you reject the bible for your own interpretation.

No attack, no rejection, just couldn't figure out the point of your "thinking".

Nice revisionism.

So, if you want me to help you figure it out the point, choose one in particular, and I'll do my best.

Otherwise, this has been a useless waste of time for me.

Correct me, or move on.

Well given teh acidic way you treat people here, I will move on! As you said it is YOUR proposed teaching, not what teh word of God says so I shall leave it at that!

 

[kcnalp]

Woe! unto the Israel wannabees!

Zechariah 14:12 (NKJV)
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

 

[robert derrick]

Between the resurrection of Jesus and the first resurrection of the church, the natural seed of Abraham has no promise of the risen God of Israel, other than that promised to all the natural seed of Adam: the hope of eternal salvation for them that obey Jesus.

Every generation of man since Jesus' resurrection, up to and including the generation of His second coming, all mankind has only that one hope in Christ.

In the generation following His reign on earth, the unbelieving natural seed of Abraham will be given the land from Egypt to Euphrates, as promised to Abram. (Gen 15)

The land of Canaan will be given only to the believing natural seed promised to Abraham. (Gen 17)

That land that was once of Canaan in the days of Abraham's flesh, will become the center of service to the reigning Christ on earth, and His personal servants who see His face will only be them both outwardly circumcised in the flesh and inwardly circumcised of Christ.

The unbelieving circumcision of the flesh will not be allowed to see His face and serve Him, until they repent and obey Him.

And so, Ezek 40-48 will be fulfilled on this earth during Christ's reign, beginning in the generation following His return.

The unbelieving generation left on earth after the first resurrection and His coming will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming.

Even as the unbelieving generation in the wilderness was destroyed, save two, so will it be with that generation of His return.

Their remaining children will have opportunity to obey Him by faith, not by sight, while dwelling in the land promised to Abraham's seed.

Until then, it's either glory or hell for any children of flesh on earth, without respect of persons by God, because at this time the flesh profits nothing.

 

[robert derrick]

At this time, there are only two tribes on earth:

The unbelieving kindred of the earth that wail become of Him, and the redeemed kindred of the Lamb: the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant.

There is no house of Israel that is not a branch of the True Vine of Christ, nor any man of Judah not planted in the likeness of His death.

 

[robert derrick]

Well given teh acidic way you treat people here, I will move on! As you said it is YOUR proposed teaching, not what teh word of God says so I shall leave it at that!

Harumph!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Harumph!

thus endeth the conversation!

 

[robert derrick]

And they went about in Judah, and gathered the Levites out of all the cities of Judah, and the chief of the fathers of Israel, and they came to Jerusalem. (2 Chron 23)

The only division between the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern of Judah was political. It was not a division God saw between His people Israel and Judah.

The northern kingdom only existed because of man's politics, not because of God's promise.

Scripture still spoke of the leaders of Judah and fathers of Israel as one and the same in His covenant at Sinai.