The Self-Life and Reckoning –Miles Stanford

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,352
877
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To be perfectly scriptural, it must be said that the reckoning of Romans 6:11 has nothing to do with the self-life. We are certainly not to reckon the old man to have “died unto sin,” any more than we are to reckon him to be “alive unto God in Christ.” The reckoning of this key verse applies to the “new creation in Christ Jesus.”

It is as a “new man” in Christ that I am to reckon myself to have died to the principle of sin, and to be alive to God in Christ Jesus. While God knew me as a lost individual in Adam, He also foreknew me as a believer in Christ. At Calvary, He not only identified the Lord Jesus with my sins by making Him “to be sin for us” (2Cor. 5:21), but He also identified me, the sinner, with the Lord Jesus. As Redeemer, he died there in payment for the penalty of my sins; as Life, He died to (out from the jurisdiction of) sin. In my identification with Him, the death of the Cross separated me from the power and tyranny of the principle of sin.

As Life, and having paid the penalty of our sins, the Lord Jesus arose from among the dead. Being identified with Christ, I, as an individual cut off from sinful Adam, was created anew in Him. Romans 6:11 calls on me, as a new creation in Christ, to reckon myself alive to God in Him, having died to sin at Calvary. By faith in these facts, I am to rest in my eternal position—alive in the risen Lord—looking on the death of the Cross as separating me from the influence of sin and self.

I am a new creation in the last Adam. Judicially, the old things of the first Adam have passed away, both as to their penalty and their power. “The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. . . . And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly” (1Cor. 15:47, 49). My history in the earthy Adam having been brought to an end at Calvary, I now count on my relationship to the heavenly Adam to conform me to His image.

Our reckoning has to do with our position in Christ, not our condition in the body. Although the Adamic life is not the source of my Christian life, that source is still active in my mortal body. When I fail to reckon on, and abide in, the Lord Jesus as my new life, the old life expresses itself by “the works of the flesh” in my members. Paul’s alternative to this is, “Do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God” (Rom. 6:13). When we yield to sin and the old life, the result is unrighteousness; when we yield our “alive-from-the-dead” life to God, there is righteousness.
“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God that you present your bodies a living sacrifice . . . unto God’ (Rom. 12:1).

“But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching [identification] to which you were committed and having been freed from [the tyranny of] sin, you became slaves of righteousness. . . . But having been freed from [the power of] sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit [of the Spirit], resulting in sanctification” (Rom. 6:17, 18, 22). In reckoning, we are thereby yielding ourselves to our risen Lord and the fruit of His life is manifested in us by growth in His image. When we fail to count on His life, the old Adamic source exercises its sinful influence and power throughout our being, making us carnal, self-centered believers.

Romans 6:6 affirms that the Adamic source of life within was crucified on the Cross: “Knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him.” We may have tried for years in our Romans 7 struggles to overcome and crucify self, but there was only miserable failure. Now we finally stop struggling and begin to trust. We reckon on what was done with that source on Calvary, thereby enabling the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus to free us from the law of sin and death.

When we have sinned, or are about to be overcome by the old man, it is too late then to reckon. No, our reckoning concerning self is to become our heart attitude. We know that the old source was crucified at the Cross and we continually count on that fact—it is to be the set of our mind. We begin the day in that attitude of heart; we do not wait until a need arises. In this way, the influence of the Cross is more consistently applied to self and our resultant emancipation becomes progressively confirmed.

“Christ suffered in the flesh—for us, was crucified for our sin. Therefore arm yourselves with the same purpose (suffer rather that to sin), for he whose mortal nature has suffered has obtained a ceasing from (the domination of) sin. So that he can no longer spend the rest of his natural life living by (his) human appetites and desires, but (he lives) for what God wills” (1Pet. 4:1, 2). In reckoning, our attitude becomes one of a firm stand against self, cost what it may. The price of birth is His death for us; the price of growth is our death with Him.

It is difficult for us to realize and acquiesce to the fact that suffering is one of the main factors on our spiritual growth. In the first place, we are in union of life with a suffering Savior whose earthly ministry was expressed in our spiritual growth. Secondly, there is the suffering we go through when we fail to abide in Him, but walk in the flesh—the suffering of sin and its inevitable consequences. Thirdly, there is the suffering that results from our day-by-day emancipation from the influence of the self-life by means of crucifixion.

Our hatred of self (old self) is actually developed and strengthened during our miserable years of slavery to it. We never realize the necessity and value of Romans 7 failure while we are in its throes. It is normal and healthy to begin the Christian life victoriously, but in those infant days we know little or nothing about self and little enough of the Lord Jesus. To rectify this deficiency, the Holy Spirit reveals the carnality of self---so we may ultimately grow into the maturity of Christ.

Through this practical revelation of the sinfulness of (old) self we gain the knowledge of the holiness of Christ and our need for counting on Him as our life. Until we thoroughly hate and distrust (our old) self, we are not fully able to love and trust the Lord Jesus. Conversely, the more we grow to love Him, the more clearly do we see (old) self for what it is. All through our earthly life, the Holy Spirit will be allowing us to get into situations where we will discover ever deeper manifestations of the old source. For this reason He develops within us the proper “mind”---the mind to suffer in the flesh, rather than yield to the flesh.

This is the heat attitude we, as believers, need today. Many of us unwillingly reckon on the crucifixion of the old man, only to draw back from the Cross when we feel the bite of the nails (discouragement, disappointment, etc.). It takes a real hatred of the old life, coupled with a deep hunger for the new, to be able to glory in the Cross that crucifies.

But when we stand firm in the Lord Jesus, armed with a mind to suffer rather than sin, then it is we are yielded and willing to be “always delivered unto death for Jesus sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh” (2Cor. 4:11). We realize that the practical crucifixion of the Cross is freeing us from the life hated by both God and us, and all that matters is that the life of the Lord Jesus may be seen in and through us. “So then death works in us, but life in you” (2Cor. 4:12). “Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to Him in well-doing, as unto a faithful Creator” (1Pet. 4:19).
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
64
North Carolina
Very good post NC, very readable, like the way you use smaller paragraphs in your posts.

Paul also relates to this in Ephesians 4.
Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.14 Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth.15 Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church.16 He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.
Eph 4:11-16 (NLT)

When looking at verse 13 for the individual, poses the question, must our faith/trust in Jesus be in unity with our knowledge of Jesus in order to grow and become spiritually mature and demonstrate Christ's character?
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,352
877
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jiggyfly, knowledge preceeds experience because we cannot experience or walk in that which we know not of. Our maturity in Christ is commensurate with what we understand in Scripture.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,007
21,591
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Jiggyfly, knowledge preceeds experience because we cannot experience or walk in that which we know not of. Our maturity in Christ is commensurate with what we understand in Scripture.

I see it the other way around. The bible indeed gets us searching. But we don't know what we are really searching for. God shows us the completed picture through a revelation ....then we are left to take the steps in that direction...through His direction.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,352
877
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi Episkopos! It's a true comment you posted, that, "we don't know what we are really searching for". We never fully know what to look for in Scripture but through consistant exposer to the written Word, the Holy Spirit ("God shows us") "guides us into all truth" (Jhn 16:13).

Surely, we cannot expeirence what we aren't familiar with, this is what i meant by Scriputral knowledge preceedes spiritual experience.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,007
21,591
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Hi Episkopos! It's a true comment you posted, that, "we don't know what we are really searching for". We never fully know what to look for in Scripture but through consistant exposer to the written Word, the Holy Spirit ("God shows us") "guides us into all truth" (Jhn 16:13).

Surely, we cannot expeirence what we aren't familiar with, this is what i meant by Scriputral knowledge preceedes spiritual experience.

Faith comes by hearing...or reading! Yes! :)

But where there is a lack of vision the people are brought to nothing. We should take the words of Paul very seriously that say...always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

We can seem to be constantly advancing...but to where? I cannot walk to Europe...there is a huge gulf that is the Atlantic ocean. Once I am translated into or onto the European continent...then I can make my way to say...Vienna.

I think it is like this concerning the things of Christ. We need to abide in Him first...than we can can complete the training in order to attain to the exact measure of Christ.
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
64
North Carolina
My thought is more in line with Episkopos on this, Abraham had faith in God long before there was any canonized scripture. Abraham's faith was founded on his experience(s) with God.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,007
21,591
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
My thought is more in line with Episkopos on this, Abraham had faith in God long before there was any canonized scripture. Abraham's faith was founded on his experience(s) with God.

I realize that many are sceptical about experiences with God seeing we now have the canon contained in the bible. But I see the words from God inviting us into the experience of the saints of old! :)
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
64
North Carolina
I realize that many are sceptical about experiences with God seeing we now have the canon contained in the bible. But I see the words from God inviting us into the experience of the saints of old! :)

Totally agree, That is exactly why Jesus was rebuking the pharisees and scholars, they knew the scriptures yet they wouldn't come to the One in which the scriptures pointing.

Yet there where many throughout Paul's ministry that were not familiar with the scriptures at all yet they felt conviction and were drawn to Christ by HolySpirit.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,352
877
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Many a Christian encounter experiences which they may not understand but the Lord uses His written Word to give us the understanding of all things which He wants us to learn. All our experiences are to be discerned by Scripture, not the opposite, this way we have a "sure word of prophecy" (2Pe 1:19), to guide us in all things. Everyone saved more clearly understands and applied God's drawing when we came to Chist, after knowing and gradually understanding the depths of what salvation is--through first knowing what Scripture teaches concerning it.

Understanding Scripture perpetuates understanding more Scripture, as the Spirit teaches us at our pace, "from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (2Cr 3:18).

The primary goal of the written Word for the saved is first Christ-conformity (Rom. 8:29), then outreach to the lost!

I think this might be semantic to what Episkopos wrote: "We need to abide in Him first...than we can can complete the training in order to attain to the exact measure of Christ."

Jiggyfly, I see Paul's conversion by Christ the most special of all saints because He chose to use Paul in a special way than all others, similar to the fact that the light from Christ at that time was brighter than the Sun at it's zenith ("above the brightness of the sun"; Acts 26:13). Paul's conversion was unique to all others in that he's the only one Christ chose to appear to, post-glorified. Jesus wasn't completely glorified until His ascention to the Father, which He did, after appearing to eveyone else, pre-glorified (Jhn 20:17).

"And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine own Self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was" (Jhn 17:5). I like John Gill's commentary on this one the best; "And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own Self,.... Not with His perfections, these He had, they dwelt bodily in Him; or with His nature, in which He was one with Him; but as Mediator, with His glorious presence in heaven, by setting Him at His right hand, and crowning Him with glory and honour.

God's love for us is the same among us, but He doesn't use all of us the same way!