The Seven Seals / Chart 2/ The First Seal / The Anti-Christ

[guysmith]

With the opening of the first seal we are introduced to a rider on a white horse.

Revelation 6: 1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

This rider represents the Anti-Christ, in possession of a bow, attempting to imitate Christ which rides a white horse but with a sword coming from His mouth.

Copyright by Guy Smith 1997 Fair Use For Educational and Discussion Purposes

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Brothertom]

This rider is the Anti-Christ, & the White Horse represents none other than Mohammed's magic Steed, Lightening, that he rode from the Temple Mount to Heaven to counsel with Abraham, Moses, & Allah.

"According to Islam, the Night Journey took place 10 years after Muhammad became a prophet, during the 7th century. Muhammad had been in his home city of Mecca, at his cousin's home (the house of Ummu Hani' binti Abu Talib). Afterwards,Prophet Muhammad went to the Masjid al-Haram. While he was resting at the Kaaba, the angel Jibril (Gabriel) appeared to him followed by the Buraq. Muhammad mounted the Buraq, and in the company of Gabriel, they traveled to the "farthest mosque".

The location of this mosque was not explicitly stated, but is generally accepted to mean Al-Aqsa Mosque (Temple Mount) in Jerusalem. At this location, He dismounted from the Buraq, prayed, and then once again mounted the Buraq and was taken to the various heavens, to meet first the earlier prophets and then God (Allah). "

As I have testified before; the Anti-Christ is here, risen from the dead. I encountered him in North Africa, on September 26th, 2012....I met him face to face at least twice...Osama Bin Laden, & his witch/prophet friend who called down huge pillars of fires,,,which I witnessed 3 times.

Could it be that the 7 year period begins when he is risen from the sea? It is possible. 1260 days after Sept. 26th, is a day many believe the Anti-Christ will reveal himself; March 26th, 2019.

The [2010-2019] Decade has 3 profound Total Solar Eclipses that bracket the decade’s time-span from end-to-end. The sum number of years happens to be 6.66 years (rounded off) from the beginning Total Solar Eclipse of [Nov 13, 2012] to the end Total Solar Eclipse of [July 2, 2019.] Will the significance of this ‘666’ year count mark-off the reign of the Anti-Christ to come? Maybe. This will make the Total Solar Eclipse of [Mar 9, 2016] the center Focal Points & date of the Decade & the 3.33rd year in relation to the Eclipses. This Center Date also happens to correlate precisely with the midpoint of the Jewish year 5776. Many Biblical Researchers believe that this date corresponds to the Year of Jubilee that is to be traditionally Proclaimed on Yom Kippur the year prior in 2015.
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/dec2011/luisv1217.htm

 

[John S]

Nonsense.

 

[iamlamad]

Nonsense is right!

Before we can understand who the white horse and rider is to represent, we must understand the CONTEXT of the first seal. That would be the vision of the throne room in chapters 4 & 5.

I got hung up on John weeping. I can't explain it: it was just the Holy Spirit. I spent days on that one sentence, trying to figure out why it was even there. After bugging God about it many times, He spoke and said "It shows timing." for a long while, I wondered how those three words were much of a help. So I just switched and started telling God that I could not see timing anywhere there! But finally, after a couple of months of meditating, I saw it. And it has been there in black in white every since John wrote it - I just could not see it. The way the Holy Spirit taught me this chapter, was to ask me questions.

For example, this vision was seen in 95 AD. His first question, that I was not smart enough on my own to ask, was this: "why was Jesus NOT in the throne room, at the right hand of the Father," in this vision of the throne room given about 95 AD? There must be a dozen scriptures that said that is where He went! And Stephen saw Him there. So even though the Holy Spirit ask me this question, I had to start bugging God about why. Why was Jesus not at the right hand of the Father when John saw into the throne room?

Next, God ask me why no man was found worthy to break the seals in a search that John watched end in failure? it was 95 AD. Jesus had been in heaven for years! Why was He not found immediately in this search? (The answer relates to the first question.) We know that the search was completed from the way John wrote. He said, "No man was found." (He would not have said that if the search had not been completed.) So question number two: why was no man found?

The third question: "why was the Holy Spirit seen there in the throne room," in chapter 4, (95 AD) when Jesus said that as soon as He got to heaven, He would send the Holy Spirit down?

So with the help of the Holy Spirit I had three questions from John's vision of the throne room. But I did not have answers!!! I had to keep bugging God about this until He brought wisdom, because I was just not smart enough to figure it out. After about a month of me bugging Him, He sent me to study chapter 12. (again, not words, just a knowing or understanding of what He wanted me to do.)

So I was off to chapter 12. My instructions once there: count how many times Dragon, Satan or pronouns of him were used in that chapter. The answer is 32 times. Then the Holy Spirit said "this chapter me introducing John to the dragon, and in particular what the dragon would be doing during the last half of the week. I also chose to show John what the dragon did when I was born." (Again, I heard His words) I finally got it: God wanted to introduce John to the dragon: specifically what the dragon would do during the 70th week. But John needed a little "history" on the dragon, so the first five verses, I termed a "History lesson." I believe I got these words from the Holy Spirit. This was God showing John what the dragon did when Jesus was born. The whole reason God sent me to chapter 12 is that it is quite easy to see that the first five verses were history to John in 95 AD.

So I came back to chapters 4 and 5 with "history lesson" on my mind. Sudden, the three questions without answers seemed to already be answered! Suddenly it made a LOT of sense! Chapter 5 was God introducing John to the scroll - but in doing that, John needed to know that the Father had been holding this scroll for a long time, and a search had been ongoing probably ever since Adam fell, for one worthy to break the seals. God wanted John to see when the first seals were broken. You can be sure that John understood the timing, after what He saw.

So what is the answer to the questions? This entire vision up to and included the first few verses of chapter 6, and a "history lesson" to John!!! You see, God showed John a vision of the throne room, BUT it was the throne room of the past! JOhn was looking into the throne room of perhaps AD 32, to a time just before Jesus rose from the dead. Why was Jesus not in the throne room, at the right hand of the Father? Because He was still on the earth - maybe just before being nailed to the cross!!! Why was no man found worthy to break the seals? Because at that point in time that John was seeing into, NO MAN was worthy! Jesus had not yet become worthy, because He had not yet risen from the dead to become the "Redeemer." Why was the Holy Spirit still there in the throne room? Because Jesus had not yet arrived back in heaven!

So this entire vision was a "History lesson" for John. John knew what Jesus had done on earth, but he had no idea what Jesus would do the moment He ascended - that is - until this vision! God shows John, or let's put it this way: John was privileged to see the very moment that Jesus ascended into the throne room! He suddenly saw someone that had not been there the moment before! This was without a doubt, right after Jesus told Mary not to hold onto Him for He had not yet ascended. As soon as He was finished with Mary, He ascended into the throne room. John saw His arrival!

So what did Jesus do, the very moment that He arrived in the throne room? He walked straight over to the Father and got the scroll, just as if that was the most important thing He could possibly do. (In fact, it was).

So what is the time frame of Chapter 6, verse one, in context? Of course, it is the same time frame as the last verses of chapter 5, where Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room, when He had not been there the moment before. So that was about 33 AD. Therefore, we see that in context, the first seal was opened in 33 AD. In fact, the first verse we see where there might be a wait, is concerning the church age martyrs: that is the 5th seal. When we understand that these are the martyrs of the church age, we see that indeed, there will be a long wait, and we are still waiting, as people are being added to that seal daily these days.

So, what is the first seal to represent? We must first address the color white. John used this color I believe 17 other times in the book of Revelation, each time to represent righteousness. OF COURSE that has to be the meaning here as well. God would NEVER use white for evil. If we wish to see what color God uses for evil, we can look at the color of the Beast in chapter 17.

Therefore, whatever this first seal is to represent, it MUST be righteous. What was on the earth in 33 AD that was righteous? There was only one thing: the CHURCH of Jesus Christ. This first seal isto represent the church, sent out to make disciples of all nations. This happened perhaps 32 or 33 AD. The next three seals are the devil's febble attempt to stop the advance of the church. But they are limited to 1/4th of the earth in their theater of operation. The timing is about 2000 years off for this to be the antichrist. That theory is myth.

Next, when we study all four seals, we see that that this first rider rides alone, while the next three ride together.

In conclusion, if we consider the context of the first seal, the timing is when Jesus ascended into the throne room, about 33 AD.

Lamad

 

[John S]

Iamlamad - Hello again.
God "spoke" to you and actually said "It shows timing".
Let's be honest. God didn't actually "speak" to you.

 

[Trumpeter]

Iamlamad - Hello again.
God "spoke" to you and actually said "It shows timing".
Let's be honest. God didn't actually "speak" to you.

Greetings John S,
God speaks to all those who are his and we can all hear Him if we take the time to listen.
God speaks in a still small voice.



1Ki 19:12

and after the earthquake a fire, [but] the LORD [was] not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

 

[iamlamad]

Iamlamad - Hello again.
God "spoke" to you and actually said "It shows timing".
Let's be honest. God didn't actually "speak" to you.

My friend, and brother, were you there? OF COURSE God spoke, and I heard His words. At times when God has spoken to me, it sounded audible, as if anyone in the room would have heard. But in retrospect, He was speaking only to my spirit - no one else would have heard.

The truth was, first He said, "it shows timing." Next He said, "it also shows the movement of time."

Because I was so slow to learn, He finally had mercy on me and gave me three questions. Yes, I heard His voice and His words. I cannot quote this first part, but He said that until I could answer these three questions, I would never understand this vision of the throne room. So here are the questions He asked me. These will not be an exact quote, for this happened years ago, but they will be close.

1) Why did John not see me at the right hand of the Father in chapter 4, when there are many verses that say I went to be at the right hand of the Father?

2) Why was "no man found" in this search for one worthy to break the seals? If you read ahead, I was found worthy. (there was more, but I cannot quote it. It was about the time that John saw this vision being years after Jesus ascended.)

3) Why was the Holy Spirit still in the throne room, when John first looked into the throne room, when I said I would send Him down as soon as I went up?

This was how God taught me chapters 4 & 5.

But since you doubt, I will tell how this began.

I was just minding my own business, reading in Daniel about the abomination happening in the "midst" of the week, and the Holy Spirit came to me saying, "you could find the exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in Revelation. I was dumbfounded and could not speak, but my spirit man answered Him:
"How would I find that?"

The Holy Spirit answered:

"Whenever I mentioned an event that started at the midpoint, and went to the end of the week, I always mentioned the 3 1/2 years. When you find these mentions of the 3 1/2 years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint. In fact, you could find the entire 70th week clearly marked."

So I studied and meditated on chapters 11-13, where these five mentions of the 3 1/2 years were. I suppose for two or three months. They one day, a "suddenly" happened to me. I was reading chapter 11, and suddenly noticed something very strange. John, in his narrative, is in the "midpoint intermission" in these chapters: he left off with the real-time events of the trumpets, and dropped into the midpoint intermission, to write about the things that must take place before the 7th trumpet can be sounded, and they before the vials can be poured out. (He does this same thing, an intermission, between the 6th and 7th seals also).

So I was reading along, trying to assimilate all that takes place during this intermission, when suddenly I saw that 11:14-15 were VERY unusual: they are real-time events, in the middle of an intermission! Actually, John drops out of the intermission and goes to real time for these two verses, (and the worship that follows), and then John is back in the intermission. These two verses just seemed to leap out at me. I almost shouted: "God is using the 7's as markers!"

(Just before the Holy Spirit left off speaking with me, He ended up by saying, "You could also find the entire 70th week 'clearly marked.'")

So as soon as I realized that the 7th trumpet clearly marked the midpoint, I rushed to the 7th vial, to read: "...it is done (finished)." Then I knew for sure that God had used the 7's as markers. I rushed to the 7th seal, and read about the silence for one half hour. Then I knew that God had marked the entire 70th week with the 7's: the 7th seal starts the week, the 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint, and the 7th vial closes the week. It came to me as revelation knowledge. I was not asking for it, but the Holy Spirit gave it to me.

He has said that when I find the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, I would be VERY close to the exact midpoint. In fact, the 7th trumpet is sounded after two mentions: the Gentiles that trample the court for 42 months, and the two witnesses that testify for 1260 days, and then before three mentions: The woman flees and is protected for 1260 days and for time, times and half of time, and finally, the beast has been given authority for 42 months. In each of these five, is an event that starts at the midpoint, and goes to the end of the week. Each one is therefore, a clue to the exact midpoint, just as the Holy Spirit said to me.

After this, I went to chapters 4 & 5 and begin studying there. That was when God began speaking about those verses.

So, yes, God speaks to me. Does it not say that "my sheep hear my voice?"

With that said, I had been a born again believer for will over 20 years before I ever heard God speak to me with words that seemed audible. But this time of Him teaching me parts of Revelation was very special. I believe it came because I spent much time reading these passages over and over,and much time praying in the Spirit while meditating on them. This, by the way, is the recipe for revelation knowledge.

Lamad

 

[John S]

You heard people talk to you who weren't physically there. - in such detail too. O.K.

 

[Trumpeter]

You heard people talk to you who weren't physically there. - in such detail too. O.K.

Jhn 4:24

"God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

 

[John S]

Trumpeter - If you have ever taken a course in logic, then you are familiar with A + B = C.

Statement A - God ALWAYS speaks the truth.
Statement B - God speaks to "Me".
Statement C - Therefore, "I" ALWAYS speak the correct truth.

If you believe that statements A and B are correct, then you MUST believe that statement C is correct also.

If you believe that one person can claim that God spoke to them but they believe one thing while a second person claims that God spoke to them while believing the complete opposite, then good for you. I don't. God doesn't tell one person one thing and another person the complete opposite.
If you believe EVERYTHING that people on this forum state who claim to speak to God, then good for you. I don't.


I'm Sorry - but I don't believe that statement B is correct.

 

[iamlamad]

You heard people talk to you who weren't physically there. - in such detail too. O.K.

Acts 10
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Acts 9
4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

1 Thes 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,

Paul wrote much of the New Testament. How did he learn all this? I am convinced Paul got more revelation knowledge from heaven than any other New Testament writer. This verse is just one hint of that.

For the readers, the bigger question is, if you are NOT hearing from God, you should be asking why? He has said, "my sheep know my voice...."

Sometimes He has spoken in what seems like an audible voice. Other times in a still small voice. And other times I just get a download, I instantly get an answer I did not have the moment before. Truthfully, I did not hear anything from heaven for the first twenty some years of being born again. But then some verse was really bugging me, and I began to bug God about it. I don't think I missed a day of NOT bugging Him for 6 months....and suddenly one day He spoke and answered my question. I learned a valuable lesson, when we ask God for something, we must be persistent. If we are, He will ALWAYS answer. We serve and awesome God! Lamad

 

[7angels]

iamlamad

i would like to hear more of your ideas of what the seven seals are. your posts above sounded as if they could be true but i need to hear more before i can make a definite decision.

God bless

 

[iamlamad]

iamlamad

i would like to hear more of your ideas of what the seven seals are. your posts above sounded as if they could be true but i need to hear more before i can make a definite decision.

God bless

At least the first five seals were broken the moment Jesus ascended at took the scroll from the hand of the Father......about 33 AD. Go and search, I cannot find any place there where God has hidden 2000 years. It is written just as if the moment Jesus ascended, He got the scroll and began breaking the seals. The first hint of a wait is at the 5th seal - the martyrs of the church age.

The first seal is to represent the church sent out to make disciples of all nations. Since these nations belong to Satan, he is not just going to stand aside. No, the advance of the kingdom of God on earth too conquering and overcoming. It cost many lives to take the gospel into new nations.

The next three seals are the devil's feeble attempts to stop the advance of the church. They were limited in their field of operation to 1/4 of the surface of the earth. I am convinced Israel is at the center of this 1/4. So it would include Europe, the Middle East and Africa, roughly. Here is where both world wars began. Here is where the black plague came. And in Africa they have had famine after famine.

The fifth seal is the martyrs of the church age. They were told they must wait until the very last martyr was killed as they were. But John is not speaking of what killed them for that was many different ways. No, John is saying the last one to die as they died, as CHURCH AGE MARTYRS.

So what will make the last church age martyr? Of course the end of the church age. What ends it? Of course the pretrib rapture. So seal 5 is a HINT to the timing of the rapture. The very next event John writes about is the 6th seal. Shortly after the 6th seal, John saw the great crowd in heaven, which no one could number. They are the raptured church, now in heaven. WHEN were they raptured? As the first event of the 6th seal, but John did not see it so did not write it. The 6th seal is the warning of the imminent start of the Day of the Lord. IT will begin along with the 70th week, at the 7th seal, and with the first trumpet.

There you have it: NONE of the seals are inside the 70th week.

Lamad

 

[veteran]

Christ gave 7 Signs for the end in His Olivet Discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13. ALL 7 signs parallel the Seals of Rev.6 for the very end of this world, the very LAST generation which will see Christ's second coming.

That puts ALL the 7 Seals in the final generation, NOT back in history.

Those same 7 signs make up the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, and 7 Vials of our Lord's Book of Revelation. The very last or 7th sign is the sign of His coming and gathering of His Church, as written in Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:23-27.

Understanding the 7 Seals is about the sealing of His servants for the end. We are to understand each one in a last generation perspective. It's the "tares" mixed in among God's people that create doctrines to try and move those signs and Seals to other times. We are not to follow are listen to the "tares" who follow Lucifer.

On the 6th Vial, our Lord Jesus Christ is still giving a warning to His Church on earth.

That means, His Church is STILL HERE all the way up to the final 7th Vial, the battle of Armageddon, which occurs on "the day of the Lord", which is also the day of Christ's coming to gather His Church.

NO ONE is going anywhere, prior to that final 7th Vial, and Jesus is not coming twice nor three times, but ONLY ONCE, on that final 7th Vial.

 

[iamlamad]

Christ gave 7 Signs for the end in His Olivet Discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13. ALL 7 signs parallel the Seals of Rev.6 for the very end of this world, the very LAST generation which will see Christ's second coming.

That puts ALL the 7 Seals in the final generation, NOT back in history.

Those same 7 signs make up the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, and 7 Vials of our Lord's Book of Revelation. The very last or 7th sign is the sign of His coming and gathering of His Church, as written in Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:23-27.

Understanding the 7 Seals is about the sealing of His servants for the end. We are to understand each one in a last generation perspective. It's the "tares" mixed in among God's people that create doctrines to try and move those signs and Seals to other times. We are not to follow are listen to the "tares" who follow Lucifer.

On the 6th Vial, our Lord Jesus Christ is still giving a warning to His Church on earth.

That means, His Church is STILL HERE all the way up to the final 7th Vial, the battle of Armageddon, which occurs on "the day of the Lord", which is also the day of Christ's coming to gather His Church.

NO ONE is going anywhere, prior to that final 7th Vial, and Jesus is not coming twice nor three times, but ONLY ONCE, on that final 7th Vial.

Veteran, you have missed what Jesus said:

Mat. 24
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Mar. 13
7 But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled; for such things must happen, but the end is not yet. 8 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles. These are the beginnings of sorrows.

Luke 21
9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.”

It was perhaps 32 AD when Jesus gave this discourse. Today it is 1981 years later. Jesus had a lot of years to cover in a very few verses. In Mat. 24 Jesus did not get to "the end" until verses 13 & 14. All verses previous to this was church age prophecy. it is interesting, Jesus totally skipped the first half of the week. When He got to the time of the 70th week, He started at the midpoint.

Sorry, you again misunderstand. Yes, there are believers on earth then, but NOT THE BRIDE. The Bride is removed long before that. Remember the great crowd no one could number? That great crowd is the Bride of Christ in heaven, before John even starts the 70th week.

Lamad

 

[ENOCH2010]

Righteous people have been dieing for the past 2000 years to join that great crowd that no man can number, the rapture hasn't created that crowd, death has.

 

[Trumpeter]

Trumpeter - If you have ever taken a course in logic, then you are familiar with A + B = C.

Statement A - God ALWAYS speaks the truth.
Statement B - God speaks to "Me".
Statement C - Therefore, "I" ALWAYS speak the correct truth.

If you believe that statements A and B are correct, then you MUST believe that statement C is correct also.

If you believe that one person can claim that God spoke to them but they believe one thing while a second person claims that God spoke to them while believing the complete opposite, then good for you. I don't. God doesn't tell one person one thing and another person the complete opposite.
If you believe EVERYTHING that people on this forum state who claim to speak to God, then good for you. I don't.


I'm Sorry - but I don't believe that statement B is correct.

Greetings John,
I don't believe EVERYTHING that people on this forum state who claim to speak to God either.
But I KNOW that statement B is true because it is part of my reality.
Lamad has told you he hears from God, I'm telling you I hear from God, my wife hears from God (ask me for that testimony sometime!), a brother in Christ that I know has the gift of prophecy and hears from God.

So here we have 4 Spirit filled believers who say they hear from God.

2Cr 13:1 This [will be] the third [time] I am coming to you. "By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established."

 

[veteran]

Veteran, you have missed what Jesus said:

Mat. 24
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Mar. 13
7 But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled; for such things must happen, but the end is not yet. 8 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles. These are the beginnings of sorrows.

Luke 21
9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.”

It was perhaps 32 AD when Jesus gave this discourse. Today it is 1981 years later. Jesus had a lot of years to cover in a very few verses. In Mat. 24 Jesus did not get to "the end" until verses 13 & 14. All verses previous to this was church age prophecy. it is interesting, Jesus totally skipped the first half of the week. When He got to the time of the 70th week, He started at the midpoint.

Sorry, you again misunderstand. Yes, there are believers on earth then, but NOT THE BRIDE. The Bride is removed long before that. Remember the great crowd no one could number? That great crowd is the Bride of Christ in heaven, before John even starts the 70th week.

Lamad

Actually, you're the one who missed what our Lord Jesus said, and that because you instead heed men instead of our Lord's Words.

I just love... those fake tirades like, "that was 2000 years ago, we now live 1981 years later." Those kind of statements are like riddles used to get your mind on a certain track away from what the real subject is.

[Like, 3 guys wanted to get a hotel room. The room cost $30; they each paid $10. A mistake was made, the room only cost $25, so the bellhop was given five one dollar bills and told to recompense the 3 guys. On the way up to the room the bellhop wonders how he's going to split the five one dollar bills between the three guys. So the bellhop decides to keep $2 and gives each of the three guys $1. That means each guy only wound up paying $9 a piece for the room, and so... 3 times 9 = 27, and the bellhop kept $2, which makes a total of $29. So where did the other dollar go??? (The Answer: each of the 3 guys actually paid $9.3333... . It's the misleading direction of getting you to add up the $29 figure that's designed to get your mind off track of a mythical missing dollar).]


The main subject of Christ's Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 are the signs of the end of the world which His disciples on the Mount of Olives with Him asked Him to declare. So our Lord Jesus began declaring to them the signs of the very end of this world, and the sign of His coming.

Matt 24:3
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
(KJV)

The end of this world today just so happens with Christ's second coming, His return, which of course is still future to us today. So there's no mistaking what end of the world His disciples asked Him about there, including what the signs of that timing would be.

So right off the bat, the MAIN SUBJECT IS: the sign of Christ's second coming and the signs of the end of this present world. Just that right there puts all the signs in the final generation on earth that will see Christ's return.


Jesus then gives them 7 specific signs that parallel the Seals of Rev.6. They are in the same order in Matt.24 and Mark 13 as they are in Rev.6. So that's a parallel study with those chapters together. The 7th, or final sign He gave there is only partially covered in Rev.6 with part of the 6th Seal about Christ's coming and the wicked seeking to hide from Him.

The 2nd Seal of Rev.6 is what Christ's words about wars and rumours of wars is about. The 2nd Seal is about a red war horse to take peace from the earth. So that is the 2nd Sign Jesus gave in His Olivet Discourse. And the last part of that Jesus said, which many preachers leave out, is that as long as wars and rumours of wars is going on, then the end is not yet. So don't worry about those wars and rumours of wars He said, they don't point to the very end. What kind of time was He pointing to that we do... need to be concerned about then? The time opposite of wars and rumours of wars, which is what kind... of time? A time of peace and safety.

In 1 Thess.5 Apostle Paul gave the endtime sign when all wars will have stopped just prior to Christ's second coming. He said when they shall say, "Peace and safety", then sudden destruction will come upon them, meaning upon the deceived who don't watch and remain sober (i.e., spiritually sober). So for the very end of this world, just prior to Christ's return, there will be a short time of "Peace and safety" the deceived will be proclaiming. Since Christ won't be yet, who do you think will bring in that time of "Peace and safety"? That's right, the false messiah, the final Antichrist that's to come prior to our Lord Jesus' coming.

The Pre-trib doctrinists purposefully forget... to tell their congregations about that time of "Peace and safety" Paul mentioned for the very end of this world just prior to Christ's second coming.

Furthermore, the following Scripture in our Lord's Olivet Discourse make it very clear that ALL those 7 signs are to happen WITHIN the final generation that will experience Christ's second coming...

Matt 24:33-36
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

What? did He say, when ye shall see all these things over a period of 2000+ years? No, He did not say that, nor even imply that idea. The next verse proves He was not speaking of the Apostle's days, but the final generation on earth that will 'see' all those things...

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

What generation won't pass untli all those things are fulfilled? It's simple. The very last sign Jesus gave there is about the sign of His coming and gathering of His Church, both from Heaven and from the earth. Did that happen in His Apostles' days? No. It still has not happened yet today either. So He was definitely not speaking of their generation of time for all these signs. Yet He made it specific that generation there would see... "all these things" (v. 33).

Let's read that v.33 phrase again: "... when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." Did He say when ye shall see SOME of these things? No... He said "when ye shall see all these things", meaning ALL those signs He gave. Did He mean when a generation past sees SOME of those signs, and another later generation sees others of those signs, and a final generation sees the final sign? No, for that would mean THREE generations, two having passed with each only seeing 'some'... of those signs.

Apostle John was captive on the Isle of Patmos when Christ gave him His Book of Revelation to send to the seven Churches in Asia, which was the time of emperor Domitian's reign (approx. 96 A.D.). So Jerusalem and the 2nd temple had already been destroyed by then. Since the Seals of Revelation are directly connected to these 7 signs of the end Jesus gave, that shows were for a later date than 70 A.D.

The first seal covered in Rev.6 is about the rider on a white horse conquering, an antitype of our Lord Jesus. That parallels the coming of a fake (i.e., the Antichrist) in place of our Lord Jesus Who indeed will return upon a white horse per Rev.19. Yet we know that fake does not come on the very 1st Seal. For today, the faithful of Christ's Church are still waiting for the appearance of the final Antichrist upon this earth, coming to work great signs and wonders for the very end to deceive the whole world. Jesus covered that event in the Matt.24:23-26 sign, and also about the setting up of the "abomination of desolation" in a temple in Jerusalem (wasn't setup in 70 A.D. Jerusalem). So that's more proof that all these things, i.e., seven signs, are for the very end of this world in the final generation, and not some time prior.

Further also, the 5th Seal about some of Christ's servants delivered up to councils and synagogues to give Christ's Testimony by The Holy Spirit at the very end prior to His coming has NOT happened yet today either. Christ said for those to not premeditate what they will say, but speak whatever The Holy Spirit gives them to speak. That is a direct pointer to the Joel 2 prophecy for the very end in relation to the cloven tongue of Pentecost (that's right, the Joel 2 prophecy quoted in Acts 2 is about the very end of this world, not the day of Pentecost. The cloven tongue manifesting on the day of Pentecost was an example only). That is the actual event for the very end which Peter was pointing when he quoted from Joel 2, saying, "But this is that...". It's that event in Joel 2 which is meant by The Gospel going out to all nations per the Matt.24:9-14 Scripture, it's linked with His servants in the end being delivered up (see Mark 13:9-11 also). That is another proof those 7 signs are for the final generation on earth.


35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

In what... generation is that above to occur? Obviously, it cannot happen until all these signs are fulfilled in the final generation on earth, the generation that will see Christ's second coming. Peter gave a brief description about it in 2 Pet.3:10 when the end of this world will come on the day of The Lord, when the elements (rudiments) of man's works are burned off this earth, literally.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
(KJV)

Only The Father knows that day of Christ's second coming on the day of The Lord to take direct reign over all nations.

Greetings John,
I don't believe EVERYTHING that people on this forum state who claim to speak to God either.
But I KNOW that statement B is true because it is part of my reality.
Lamad has told you he hears from God, I'm telling you I hear from God, my wife hears from God (ask me for that testimony sometime!), a brother in Christ that I know has the gift of prophecy and hears from God.

So here we have 4 Spirit filled believers who say they hear from God.

2Cr 13:1 This [will be] the third [time] I am coming to you. "By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established."

Our Heavenly Father and The Holy Spirit will NOT contradict His Holy Writ.

But YOU claim Christ is coming PRIOR to the tribulation to gather His Church when God's Word says no such thing.

So I agree with John S, God is not speaking to you, but another spirit is.

 

[iamlamad]

Righteous people have been dieing for the past 2000 years to join that great crowd that no man can number, the rapture hasn't created that crowd, death has.

Sorry, but those that are alive and remain are NOT GOING to DIE to be changed! Where did you ever get that idea? There is not even a hint that those in this crowd without number has died. Instead, they were CHANGED. 1 Thes 4:17

Lamad

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Trumpeter - If you have ever taken a course in logic, then you are familiar with A + B = C.

Statement A - God ALWAYS speaks the truth.
Statement B - God speaks to "Me".
Statement C - Therefore, "I" ALWAYS speak the correct truth.

If you believe that statements A and B are correct, then you MUST believe that statement C is correct also.

If you believe that one person can claim that God spoke to them but they believe one thing while a second person claims that God spoke to them while believing the complete opposite, then good for you. I don't. God doesn't tell one person one thing and another person the complete opposite.
If you believe EVERYTHING that people on this forum state who claim to speak to God, then good for you. I don't.


I'm Sorry - but I don't believe that statement B is correct.

You nailed it John S