The sin of unbelief

[H. Richard]

Richard -----/

I am guessing you also believe that your faith can effect your prosperity and heal the sick? Your prayer carries more weight with God then another Christian who has less faith. You can raise the dead and cast out demons? Because you have 'faith'. You believe and do not doubt...unlike those poor and ill sods who profess to be Christians. Am I right?

Stupid conclusion on your part. Material??? Where? Faith in Jesus is not material.

It is my faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross that Jesus told us, through Paul, pays for all my sins of the flesh.

It is impossible for me to see how you can come up with your conclusion. It obviously can't be seen in what I write

 

[ATP]

How the [removed] can anyone say that Matthew 7:22 is saying we must keep the law? Jesus is blasting the Pharisees who kept the law better than anyone! Your righteousness must EXCEED that of the Pharisees! Yet, these folks want to go back to that which the Pharisees did! But they think they can do it better! BLAAAAHAHA!

Read the bold below... ;)

If our salvation is eternally secure, why does the Bible warn so strongly against apostasy?

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apostasy salvation
Question: "If our salvation is eternally secure, why does the Bible warn so strongly against apostasy?"

Answer: The Bible teaches that everyone who is born again by the power of the Holy Spirit is saved forever. We receive the gift of eternal life (John 10:28), not temporary life. Someone who is born again (John 3:3) cannot be “unborn.” After being adopted into God’s family (Romans 8:15), we will not be kicked out. When God starts a work, He finishes it (Philippians 1:6). So, the child of God—the believer in Jesus Christ—is eternally secure in his salvation.

However, the Bible also contains some strong warnings against apostasy. These warnings have led some to doubt the doctrine of eternal security. After all, if we cannot lose our salvation, why are we warned against falling away from the Lord? This is a good question. First, we must understand what is meant by “apostasy.”

An apostate is someone who abandons his religious faith. It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received Him as Savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not true believers, and they never were.

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares (Matthew 13:24–30) provides a simple illustration of apostasy. In the same field were growing wheat and “false wheat” (tares or weeds). At first, the difference between the two types of plants was undetectable, but as time went on, the weeds were seen for what they were. In the same way, in any given church today, there may be true, born-again believers side by side with pretenders—those who enjoy the messages, the music, and the fellowship but have never repented of their sins and accepted Christ by faith. To any human observer, the true believer and the pretender look identical. Only God can see the heart. Matthew 13:1–9 (the Parable of the Sower) is another illustration of apostasy in action.

The Bible’s warnings against apostasy exist because there are two types of religious people: believers and unbelievers. In any church there are those who truly know Christ and those who are going through the motions. Wearing the label “Christian” does not guarantee a change of heart. It is possible to hear the Word, and even agree with its truth, without taking it to heart. It is possible to attend church, serve in a ministry, and call yourself a Christian—and still be unsaved (Matthew 7:21–23). As the prophet said, “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me” (Isaiah 29:13; cf. Mark 7:6).

God warns the pretender who sits in the pew and hears the gospel Sunday after Sunday that he is playing with fire. Eventually, a pretender will apostatize—he will “fall away” from the faith he once professed—if he does not repent. Like the tares among the wheat, his true nature will be manifest.

The passages warning against apostasy serve two primary purposes. First, they exhort everyone to be sure of their salvation. One’s eternal destiny is not a trifling matter. Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 13:5 to examine ourselves to see whether we are “in the faith.”

One test of true faith is love for others (1 John 4:7–8). Another is good works. Anyone can claim to be a Christian, but those who are truly saved will bear “fruit.” A true Christian will show, through words, actions, and doctrine, that he follows the Lord. Christians bear fruit in varying degrees based on their level of obedience and their spiritual gifts, but all Christians bear fruit as the Spirit produces it in them (Galatians 5:22–23). Just as true followers of Jesus Christ will be able to see evidence of their salvation (see 1 John 4:13), apostates will eventually be made known by their fruit (Matthew 7:16–20) or lack thereof (John 15:2).

The second purpose for the Bible’s warnings against apostasy is to equip the church to identify apostates. They can be known by their rejection of Christ, acceptance of heresy, and carnal nature (2 Peter 2:1–3).

The biblical warnings against apostasy, therefore, are warnings to those who are under the umbrella of “faith” without ever having truly exercised faith. Scriptures such as Hebrews 6:4–6 and Hebrews 10:26–29 are warnings to “pretend” believers that they need to examine themselves before it’s too late. Matthew 7:22–23 indicates that “pretend believers” whom the Lord rejects on Judgment Day are rejected not because they “lost faith” but because the Lord never knew them. They never had a relationship with Him.

There are many people who love religion for religion’s sake and are willing to identify themselves with Jesus and the church. Who wouldn’t want eternal life and blessing? However, Jesus warns us to “count the cost” of discipleship (Luke 9:23–26; 14:25–33). True believers have counted the cost and made the commitment; apostates fail to do so. Apostates had a profession of faith at one time but not the possession of faith. Their mouths spoke something other than what their hearts believed. Apostasy is not loss of salvation but evidence of past pretension.

http://www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html

 

[ATP]

Faith alone is never evidence of anything. You need to read Matt 7:22 (you can be unsaved and the name of Jesus can still have power to do a miracle) and then contrast it with James 1:27. As scripture says '''show faith by my works'' James 2:18.


Note there was no obstruction to the Holy Spirit coming on them. He was able to 'come on them'. Because they were saved.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,.... That is, in the last day, the day of judgment, the great and famous day, fixed by God, unknown to angels and men, which will be terrible to some, and joyful to others; the day in which the faithful ministers of the Gospel shall be owned by Christ, and received into the kingdom of heaven: "many", not of the common people only, but of the preachers of the word, who have filled up the highest station in the church below; not one, or two, or a few of them only, but many of them "will say to me"; to Christ, who will appear then as the judge of quick and dead, to which he is ordained by his Father,

Lord, Lord; not "my Lord, my Lord", as the Syriac version reads it; for they will not be able to claim any interest in him, though they will be obliged to own his dominion, power, and authority over them. The word is repeated to show their importunity, sense of danger, the confusion they will be in, the wretched disappointment they will have; and therefore speak as persons amazed and confounded, having expected they would have been the first persons that should be admitted into heaven. Their pleas follow;

have we not prophesied in thy name? This may be understood either of foretelling things to come; which gift wicked men may have, who have never had any experience of the grace of God, as Balaam, and Caiaphas, and others; or rather of preaching the word, which is sometimes called prophesying, Romans 12:6 and which may be done in the name of Christ, pretending mission and authority from him, and to be preachers of him, and yet be no better than "sounding brass", or "a tinkling cymbal"; yea, nothing at all as to true grace, or spiritual experience.

And in thy name have cast out devils? Diabolical possessions were very frequent in the times of Christ; no doubt but they were suffered, that Jesus might have an opportunity of showing his power over Satan, by dispossessing him from the bodies, as well as the souls of men; and of giving proof of his deity, divine sonship and Messiahship: and this power of casting out devils was given to others, not only to the twelve apostles, among whom Judas was, who had the same power with the rest, and to the seventy disciples; but even to some who did not follow him, and his disciples, Mark 9:38 and some did this in the name of Jesus, who do not appear to have any true faith in him, and knowledge of him; as the vagabond Jews, exorcists, and the seven sons of Sceva, Acts 19:13. An awful consideration it is, that men should be able to cast out devils, and at last be cast to the devil.

And in thy name done many wonderful works? that is, many miracles; not one, or a few only, but many; such as speaking with tongues, removing mountains, treading on serpents and scorpions, and drinking any deadly thing without hurt, and healing all manner of diseases and sicknesses. Judas, for one, was capable of pleading all these things; he had the gift of preaching, and a call from Christ to it, and yet a castaway; he had the power of casting out devils, and yet could not prevent the devil from entering into him; he could perform miracles, do wonders in Christ's name, and yet, at last, was the betrayer of him. These pleas and arguments will be of no use to him, nor of any avail to any at the great day. It may be observed, that these men lay the whole stress of their salvation upon what they have done in Christ's name; and not on Christ himself, in whom there is salvation, and in no other: they say not a syllable of what Christ has done and suffered, but only of what they have done. Indeed, the things they instance in, are the greatest done among men; the gifts they had were the most excellent, excepting the grace of God; the works they did were of an extraordinary nature; whence it follows, that there can be no salvation, nor is it to be expected from men's works: for if preaching the word, which is attended with so much study, care, and labour, will not be a prevailing argument to admit men into the kingdom of heaven; how can it be thought that ever reading, or hearing, or any other external performance of religion, should bring persons thither?

 

[ATP]

However Scriptures warn us: Matt 7:22-23 “Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'” NIV

Driving out demons and performing miracles in the name of the Lord does not necessarily mean that you are saved!

Jesus alluded to this fact in his parable of the seeds and weeds: Matt 13:27 “'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'” NIV

We are astonished as well when we notice some weeds among the “good seed” Christians in our church. We wonder out loud as well “Where then did the weeds come from?" Those weeds do not make sense in a church! Haven’t they all heard the Good News about what Jesus did for us? Why are these weeds among us?

Jesus answer: Matt 13:28 8 "'An enemy did this,' he replied.” NIV

Now we may be tempted to uproot those weeds from among our midst. Wouldn’t we react like the servants: Matt 13:28 "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' “ NIV

Jesus is very clear on that as well: Matt 13:29-30 "'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'" NIV

It isn’t our job to do the weeding among our midst. God wants to give every opportunity to those who are considered “weeds” to get to know Him and accept Him in their life. However a time will come where their time is up, and if they continue in their stubborn streak of remaining “weeds”, they will be uprooted at harvest time, when Jesus will returns to our planet.

Are you a weed or are you a seed? Prayerfully consider this. It isn’t too late to give your heart to Jesus.

http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_questions/Answers/jesus/chosing_judas.html

 

[ATP]

1) IT IS POSSIBLE TO SHOW OUTWARD INDICATIONS OF SALVATION AND YET NOT BE SAVED.

Seven times in the gospels Judas is described as "one of the twelve" (see John 6:71). If you had been one of the other disciples what would you have thought of Judas? Would you have thought that Judas was very different than the other disciples? Or would Judas have fooled you into thinking that he was no different than the rest of the 12?

Did you know that Judas went out and preached God’s Word? We learn this in Matthew 10:4-7. Jesus commanded the twelve disciples (INCLUDING JUDAS) to go forth and to preach the good news about the kingdom. As far as we know Judas actually did this. He went forth and preached this message: "REPENT! FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND!" (see Matthew 10:7).

What is even more amazing is that Judas probably performed miracles! In Matthew 10:1 we learn that Jesus gave His twelve disciples (INCLUDING JUDAS) power against unclean spirits and power to heal all manner of sickness (see also Matthew 10:8). It is very probable that there were people living in the land of Palestine who could say, "I was healed by Judas" or "I had a demon cast out of me by Judas!" When the disciples returned from their mission they did not say, "Lord, in Your Name we were able to heal people and cast out demons. But Lord, something is wrong with Judas. He was not able to heal anyone and the demons would not obey him." No, every indication seems to be that Judas performed miracles just like the other disciples.

Judas preached and performed miracles, and yet in spite of all this Judas was an unsaved man! Consider Matthew 7:22. Perhaps Judas will someday say, "Lord, Lord, Have I not preached in Your Name? and in Your Name have I not cast out demons? and in Your Name have I not healed sick people? and in Your Name have I not done many wonderful works?" What will Jesus’ answer be to him (Matthew 7:23)? ______________________________________________

The same is true today. People can go through the outward motions and still not be saved. Can a person preach and not be saved? Can a person sing hymns and not be saved? Can a person pray and not be saved? Can a person witness and tell others about Christ and not be saved? Can a person read the Bible and not be saved?

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/13bchara/13bible12.htm

 

[ATP]

:) Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

<_< Isa 29:13 NIV The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught.

<_< Matt 15:8-9 NIV “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ ”

 

[KingJ]

How can anyone say that Matthew 7:22 is saying we must keep the law? Jesus is blasting the Pharisees who kept the law better than anyone! Your righteousness must EXCEED that of the Pharisees! Yet, these folks want to go back to that which the Pharisees did! But they think they can do it better! BLAAAAHAHA!

Who are you quoting? Matt 7:22 was used to show that faith without works is a joke. Anyone can believe / have faith that the name of Jesus can cast out a demon.

 

[KingJ]

Excellent posts ATP. Thanks for them. The fact that even Judas had faith to cast out demons clears up a lot of the confusion ^_^.

 

[ATP]

Excellent posts ATP. Thanks for them. The fact that even Judas had faith to cast out demons clears up a lot of the confusion ^_^.

I think you might be missing the point here. In this parable Jesus is speaking of two different types of disciples Matt 13:10 NIV.

Those who never knew Him are those who were never born again and those who did not have a relationship with Him.

True and False Disciples

Matt 7:21-23 NIV “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

- ATP

 

[ATP]

"I never knew them" is referring to nonbelievers...

Matt 13:40-42 NIV “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 5:29 ESV and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

John 6:35-40 NIV Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:54 NIV Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 12:48 NIV There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Rom 2:5 NIV But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

1 Cor 5:5 NIV hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

2 Peter 2:9 NIV if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

2 Peter 3:7 NIV By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

1 John 4:17 NIV This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.

 

[StanJ]

The fact that even Judas had faith to cast out demons clears up a lot of the confusion.

WHERE exactly did you read this?

 

[lforrest]

When Jesus sent out the 12 into the towns of Israel Judas was one of these. Would Julas have gone if he didn't believe?

Do you think Judas went and failed in his mission? I think not, because the Lord said he would drive out demons, so he did.

Does it concern you that Judas betrayed Jesus after all he had done in his name? it should.

 

[FHII]

Who are you quoting? Matt 7:22 was used to show that faith without works is a joke. Anyone can believe / have faith that the name of Jesus can cast out a demon.

KingJ, these people actually HAD works! They had wonderful works and they did them in the name of Jesus (that's what they will say at the white throne judgment).

Its not about doing the works, its about doing the will of the Father.

 

[FHII]

When Jesus sent out the 12 into the towns of Israel Judas was one of these. Would Julas have gone if he didn't believe?

Do you think Judas went and failed in his mission? I think not, because the Lord said he would drive out demons, so he did.

Does it concern you that Judas betrayed Jesus after all he had done in his name? it should.

Yep .. Judas did succeed as much as any other disciple. I dare say he was even as dedicated at some point as the others. I might waver on that because I think Peter, John and James may have been more in the inner circle.

But up to a point, Judas did every thing the others did.

 

[ATP]

When Jesus sent out the 12 into the towns of Israel Judas was one of these. Would Julas have gone if he didn't believe?

Do you think Judas went and failed in his mission? I think not, because the Lord said he would drive out demons, so he did.

Does it concern you that Judas betrayed Jesus after all he had done in his name? it should.

Judas also existed before Pentecost and resurrection, before the seal of God Eph 1:13-14.

 

[FHII]

"I never knew them" is referring to nonbelievers..[/b]

Interesting thought. I said that mat 7:22 was talking about the Pharisees. I was looking at the sermon in the mount as a whole. I stilk believe that he spoke about them quite a bit, but may have to rethink this part of tge sermon. Regardless, I don't see it as a verse that supports faith plus works.

Works of the spirit, sure.... but not works of the flesh.

 

[ATP]

Interesting thought. I said that mat 7:22 was talking about the Pharisees. I was looking at the sermon in the mount as a whole. I stilk believe that he spoke about them quite a bit, but may have to rethink this part of tge sermon. Regardless, I don't see it as a verse that supports faith plus works.

Works of the spirit, sure.... but not works of the flesh.

You can actually see Matt 7:21-23 parable through multiple lenses; historic, future, bema seat and the great white throne. Before resurrection and after resurrection. Do you see it?

Matt 7:21-23 NIV “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[StanJ]

When Jesus sent out the 12 into the towns of Israel Judas was one of these. Would Julas have gone if he didn't believe?
Do you think Judas went and failed in his mission? I think not, because the Lord said he would drive out demons, so he did.
Does it concern you that Judas betrayed Jesus after all he had done in his name? it should.

That why I asked that specific question, which you didn't answer either. Matt 10 does not show Judas did any of what Jesus commanded, even though he had the power to do so. I think it's a big problem when one assumes something that is not evident in Scripture. I really try not to do that.

 

[ATP]

It would be a fair assumption to say that Judas did perform miracles. Otherwise God is in contradiction John 6:47 NIV.

 

[FHII]

You can actually see Matt 7:21-23 parable through multiple lenses; historic, future, bema seat and the great white throne. Before resurrection and after resurrection. Do you see it?

Matt 7:21-23 NIV “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I don't see it as a parable, but as prohecy. A parable in my understanding is a story (an actual event or not) to illustrate a point. I think this is literally going to happen.

No matter. Your point is pretty good. When Solomon said there is nothing new under the sun, and that the OT is a shadow. .. I can understand your point.