Is it possible to lose salvation?

[David Lamb]

Paul is the "Church Doctrine" teacher.

He taught the other 11 , when He met them in Acts 15.

Well, I have just had another look at Acts 15. Certainly we read of Paul describing the conversion of Gentiles, but there is nothing as I see it saying that Paul taught the other apostles church doctrine.

 

[Behold]

Well, I have just had another look at Acts 15. Certainly we read of Paul describing the conversion of Gentiles, but there is nothing as I see it saying that Paul taught the other apostles church doctrine.

Did you read Acts 10, and discover that Peter didnt know that Gentiles could be saved?
Acts 10 is 10 yrs after Jesus is back in Heaven.
Did you ever ask yourself why Jesus chose an {outside) apostle to bring the Church its Doctrine and its Gospel?
You should think about that.
So that means that Peter had no idea of "the time of the Gentiles" or the reason for the Cross, nor could have have understood Paul's Gospel.

In Acts 15, Paul showed Him, and the rest of them.

 

[David Lamb]

Knowing about Jesus and The Cross does not save you.

Sorry, I must have been unclear. I fully agree that merely knowing about Jesus and the cross does not save anybody.

So, Jesus knew He was going to The Cross, but he never told the Jews.....He only told the Apostles., at the end of His ministry to the Jews.

See, until Jesus has shed His Blood and died for your sins......you can't be saved.......So, that was why He was not teaching the Jews, about His later Sacrifice.
Also, you can't be saved unless you can receive the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit was not given to this EARTH, until Jesus was back in Heaven.

So, there was NO CROSS and NO HOLY Spirit, ....when Jesus was ministering to the JEWS......'House of Israel".

There certainly was a Holy Spirit. Are you saying that nobody was saved before Calvary? What about aged Simeon, who held the Infant Jesus in his arms and said to God:

“"Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace, According to Your word; For my eyes have seen Your salvation Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles, And the glory of Your people Israel."” (Lu 2:29-32 NKJV)

How could he be departing in peace unless he was saved?

New International Version
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

New Living Translation
Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep—the people of Israel.”

English Standard Version
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Berean Standard Bible
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Berean Literal Bible
And answering He said, "I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel."

King James Bible
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

New King James Version
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

 

[Behold]

There certainly was a Holy Spirit.

Yes, God is the Holy Spirit and Jesus is the same.
So, when we become "the Temple of the Holy Spirit" that is God and Christ in us, and we are "in Christ" and "one with God".

However, It was during Pentecost, after Jesus was back in Heaven.....that The Holy Spirit was "sent down" here.....
So, until He was......then you can't be this....>"Those that have not the HolySpirit IN THEM, are none of God's".

So, For Salvation to happen, you have to have The Cross of Christ... and the Holy Spriit to birth your spirit, as a "new Creation, in Christ".

You had NONE OF THIS, when Jesus was talking to the Jews, for His 3.5 years.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Again I will pray for you

You can’t take my security from me. And you’re offering me no hope. Only hope in self.

That’s not from God

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

True, His main earthly ministry was to the Jews. Yet He did say:

“"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.” (Joh 10:16 NKJV)

The other sheep are the gentiles who were grafted in as their believed

 

[Wick Stick]

True, His main earthly ministry was to the Jews. Yet He did say:

“"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.” (Joh 10:16 NKJV)

If you go through the gospels and look at where Jesus spent most of his earthly ministry... Jesus was most often found in the areas adjacent to Judea but NOT actually in Judea itself. Galilee, Perea, Trans-Jordan, etc.

His forays into Judea proper seem to be only for the purpose of keeping the feasts required by the Law, and it appears that He sometimes hid the fact of His travel there during those occasions.

I guess what I'm saying is... Jesus ministry was mostly to "lost" Israel, rather than the Jews who were not lost. The restoration of Israel seems to have been a primary goal of His ministry.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Paul didn't have his own gospel. He preached the gospel of Christ:

“For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers,” (Ro 1:9 NKJV)

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.” (Ro 1:16 NKJV)

“in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.” (Ro 15:19 NKJV)

“But I know that when I come to you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.” (Ro 15:29 NKJV)

“If others are partakers of [this] right over you, are we not even more? Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ.” (1Co 9:12 NKJV)

“What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.” (1Co 9:18 NKJV)

“For we are not overextending ourselves (as though [our authority] did not extend to you), for it was to you that we came with the gospel of Christ;” (2Co 10:14 NKJV)

“and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith,” (1Th 3:2 NKJV)

David, Paul saying he preached the Gospel of Christ does not prove he did, the differences in gospels are major you have to kook at all Paul said to see it. Do not forget Paul said on 3 different occasions that he preaches ""MY GOSPEL" this is a serious matter and it should not be taken lightly. Also the 12 chosen by Jesus were with him 3 plus years they were instructed what to preach which or, repentance, the kingdom of heaven and anything else that Jesus did and said and they did. I hear this so often, that it is the same gospel but facts found in scripture say something else. paul received his gospel in secret with absolutely no witnesses to corroborate a single word except perhaps what Paul saw on the road to Damascus, even then 3 different statements that do not say the same thing, this part at least I do believe. but we have to be cautious if we find differences in the message of Paul compared to the words of Jesus and there are significant ones. I know with certainty Jesus never changed his mind about what he said and all he said remain totally valid today but some argue with this.

Blessings.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Paul's Gospel is specific.
It only deals with "the time of the gentiles".
Jesus, on earth......didn't deal with gentiles.

what about the Samaritan woman by the well, do not forget Jesus came first to his people and sent the 12 to teach to all the world as i have written to you before with the proper verses

Jesus is Lord.

Paul is the "teacher" of NT Church Doctrine.

Yes Jesus is Lord but Jesus is also The Teacher ( also called Master) , this is what he said in scripture he is also the cornerstone of the church and he appointed PETER not paul to take care of His church as I explained with the verses that proves it as w wrote to you yesterday.

The MaryCult is built on Peter and Mary.

the Mary cult is built on mary I am not aware of a peter cult, but it could be. The mary cult is certainly false doctrine.

Christianity, is Built on The Cross of Christ and Paul's Doctrine for the "body of Christ"

True Christianity is built on the words and doing ( yes the cross also!) of our lord and Messiah Jesus Christ as it should be. What Christ said and asked of us is Most important, he IS the mose excellent teacher and shephears and the only one we must follow if we are his sheep, we will hear only his voice. if we know him, we will do His and His father's will and not our own.

 

[Wick Stick]

David, Paul saying he preached the Gospel of Christ does not prove he did,

I think this is observable/provable from Scripture.

Jesus taught

• the kingdom of God has arrived, but is internal rather than external
• the unity of God and man
• baptism for adoption of proselytes under the auspices of the Abrahamic covenant

Paul teaches all those same things. He doesn't use precisely the same words, and he certainly fleshes out some concepts more fully, but they're all there.

The major additional content in Paul is that he also preaches the death and resurrection of Jesus, which is something that Jesus Himself only hints at in the gospels until it actually happens.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Did you read Acts 10, and discover that Peter didnt know that Gentiles could be saved?
Acts 10 is 10 yrs after Jesus is back in Heaven.
Did you ever ask yourself why Jesus chose an {outside) apostle to bring the Church its Doctrine and its Gospel?
You should think about that.
So that means that Peter had no idea of "the time of the Gentiles" or the reason for the Cross, nor could have have understood Paul's Gospel.

In Acts 15, Paul showed Him, and the rest of them.

Paul NEVER meat Jesus face to face in person but the 12 spend 3 1/2 years and lived with him daily, does this not count?

Paul was a servant, Jesus was the master and Jesus teached us the student is never greater than the master, Jesus also says the perfectly trained students ( the original 12) what training Paul did recieve? a few visions in secret? with ZERO witnesses?

Luk 6:40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

As for peter not knowing at that time ( acts 10) it was certainly God's plan that he stayed bit longer for the people in that region.

Peter did say He, Peter was chosen by GOD to preach to the gentiles do not forget this. this corroborated Jesus words that Peter would build Jesus Church! also it is false to say Peter did not know about the cross, the 12 were told by Jesus before it happened ( last supper) Peter know very well Jesus was about do die, there are evidence of this in the gospels.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I think this is observable/provable from Scripture.

Jesus taught

• the kingdom of God has arrived, but is internal rather than external
• the unity of God and man
• baptism for adoption of proselytes under the auspices of the Abrahamic covenant

Paul teaches all those same things. He doesn't use precisely the same words, and he certainly fleshes out some concepts more fully, but they're all there.

The major additional content in Paul is that he also preaches the death and resurrection of Jesus, which is something that Jesus Himself only hints at in the gospels until it actually happens.

I disagree. it is too far off the opening post to discuss here but if you start a thread I will explain.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Paul saying he preached the Gospel of Christ does not prove he did

So your claim is that Paul is a liar.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Paul NEVER meat Jesus face to face in person

That's not what Paul said.

Paul was taken by the Lord up to Heaven and spent Time with Jesus

Whether it was in a vision or an actual trip to Heaven matters not, what matters is Paul did see and speak with Jesus

 

[LoveYeshua]

So your claim is that Paul is a liar.

no you said so you concluded I did say it

 

[LoveYeshua]

That's not what Paul said.

Paul was taken by the Lord up to Heaven and spent Time with Jesus

Whether it was in a vision or an actual trip to Heaven matters not, what matters is Paul did see and speak with Jesus

what did they discuss, for how long, a minute an hour? the mistery? what is this mistery kept since the begining of time?

What did paul teach jesus did not or the 12?

do not forget the witnessing principle jesus said;

Jhn 5:30 I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Jhn 5:31 If I testify about Myself, My testimony is not valid.

Jhn 5:32 There is another who testifies about Me, and I know that His testimony about Me is valid.

Jhn 5:33 You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth.

Jhn 5:34 Even though I do not accept human testimony, I say these things so that you may be saved.

Jhn 5:35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you were willing for a season to bask in his light.

Jhn 5:36 But I have testimony more substantial than that of John. For the works that the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works I am doing—testify about Me that the Father has sent Me.

Jhn 5:37 And the Father who sent Me has Himself testified about Me. You have never heard His voice nor seen His form,

Jhn 5:38 nor does His word abide in you, because you do not believe the One He sent.

Paul had no withesses!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Paul saying he preached the Gospel of Christ does not prove he did

Here's what you said: see quote above

Either Paul is a liar or he's a false teacher.

Which is it?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

what did they discuss, for how long, a minute an hour? the mistery? what is this mistery kept since the begining of time?

Either Paul is a liar or he is not.

What did paul teach jesus did not or the 12?

The Lord Jesus continued His teaching ministry thru Paul and expounded in more detail upon the things that He was teaching to the 12 which is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[bro.tan]

Again I will pray for you

You can’t take my security from me. And you’re offering me no hope. Only hope in self.

That’s not from God

Paul say in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation. Also in (Colo. 1:22-23) (v.22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (v.23) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settle, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

You must continue in the faith and not be moved by the cares of the world. It’s more than confessing the name of Jesus, salvation is a work in progress you must take it one day at a time. It is a sad thing to believe that once you say that you believe on Christ your journey is done. You have only taken the first steps toward learning about the true and living God.
Yes it's from God coming through Paul

 

[bro.tan]

Are you trying to get people to live under the Law of Moses? The Levitical Law?

We would have to do what the Galatians did and turn away from Jesus and go back to living under the law

Not the Levitical Laws, pay attention to what Paul is saying in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

To sum up what going on here in Galatians, Paul is explaining that Christ came from Abraham seed, and remove the animal Sacrificial law. But in the days of Abraham that animal Sacrificial law never was on the table, and was not needed for Abraham to obey and have faith in God. But the Commandments was always on the table.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. (Paul breaks down more of this law in Hebrew 10th Chapter)

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.

Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law