The Sinners Prayer?

[Jim B]

If one were saved by reciting some "sinner's prayer" then that would be a work, something done and it would make salvation conditional upon one's work in saying a sinner's prayer. But salvation is conditional, not upon saying a sinner's prayer, but upon obedience in doing what God says in believing, repenting of sins, confessing woth the mouth and submittion to baptism. And obedience to God is not a work of merit.

The Bible speaks of different kinds of works...good works, wicked works, works of righteousness, works of unrighteousness, works of the OT law, works of merit, works of obedience in doing God's will, etc but no verse eliminates ALL works of ALL kinds.

Romans 4:5-6, Eph 2:8-9. NOTHING in either the immediate or remote contexts of these passages eliminates all works for that idea is assumed into the verses with no proof given to back it up. No verse(s) at all eliminates obedience to God's will. Nowhere in the first 4 chapters of Romans does Paul ever eliminate obedience to God's will but in chapter 6 makes obedience necessary in order to be justified...."obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine then being made freed from sin", verses 17-18....Paul spoke of "obedience unto righteousness" verse 16. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a person to ever be righteous (right doing) apart from obedying God's will for God never made one righteous while one continued to live in rebellion, disobedience to God's will. Rom 4:5 is speaking of Abraham and when it says Abraham "worketh not" that cannot exclude obedience for Abraham did for a fact have obedient works (Heb 11:8,17) and was justified by those works, James 2. Trying to get Rom 4:5 or Eph 2:8-9 to eliminate obdience creates a myraid of contradictions within the Bible that the faith onlyist can never clean up.

---obedience to God is not a work of merit
--no one was saved while continuing to live in disobedience to God's will
--obedience to God's will is the only solution to being dead to sin
--man has been given commands to obey in order to be saved
--no one was ever told to think out your salvation but work out your salvation for doing nothing has never saved anyone.

Faith onlyist continue to cite Roms 4:5 and Eph 2:8-9 out of context and isolated these verses by themselves from all other verses and then ASSUME faith only into these verse by assuming these verses eliminate all works of all kinds including obdience to God but never give proof to back those assumptions up.

You're "all over the place" and "flying off the handle", to use two idioms. Calm down!

a) Nobody can earn salvation by doing "works". That is clear in the Bible.

b) We are saved solely by God's grace and enabled to do the work that He requires of us. He gives us various gifts to accomplish His purposes.

Romans 6:13b, "... present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead and your members to God as instruments to be used for righteousness." Instruments to be used by God as He sees fit. God chooses what we must do and how we should act. Nobody is saying anything about eliminating all work, i.e., loafing and self-indulgence, but neither are we to "work" to earn God's favor. Claiming that "man has been given commands to obey in order to be saved" is simply not true.

 

[Jim B]

Well the term sinners prayer is a colloquial term used to describe a prayer that one should ( not must) pray in a church to receive Christ. I knwo there are vast variations to it. but if it is a prayer doen in faith, God knows and accepts.

When I was healed and saved by Jesus Christ in the hospital as the result of a pastor's prayer for that healing, the next things she requested was that I recite the "sinner's prayer". I refused, because I God's eyes I was no longer a sinner.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You're "all over the place" and "flying off the handle", to use two idioms. Calm down!

a) Nobody can earn salvation by doing "works". That is clear in the Bible.

b) We are saved solely by God's grace and enabled to do the work that He requires of us. He gives us various gifts to accomplish His purposes.

Romans 6:13b, "... present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead and your members to God as instruments to be used for righteousness." Instruments to be used by God as He sees fit. God chooses what we must do and how we should act. Nobody is saying anything about eliminating all work, i.e., loafing and self-indulgence, but neither are we to "work" to earn God's favor. Claiming that "man has been given commands to obey in order to be saved" is simply not true.

Obedience is how one is saved, (Heb 5:9; Rom 6:16-18; Acts 2:38; etc) not by reciting some 'sinner's prayer' and obedience is not a work of merit.

 

[Jim B]

Obedience is how one is saved, (Heb 5:9; Rom 6:16-18; Acts 2:38; etc) not by reciting some 'sinner's prayer' and obedience is not a work of merit.

Really? You need to read your Bible more carefully.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast."

Want more? John 3:16-18, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world but in order that the world might be saved through him. Those who believe in him are not condemned, but those who do not believe are condemned already because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Clearly you are wrong. God can't be bribed by obedience.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Really? You need to read your Bible more carefully.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast."

Want more? John 3:16-18, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world but in order that the world might be saved through him. Those who believe in him are not condemned, but those who do not believe are condemned already because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Clearly you are wrong. God can't be bribed by obedience.

The BIble requires obedience to God in order to be saved (Heb 5:9; Rom 6:16-18; 2 Thess 1:8; Acts 2:38; etc) and the BIble does not contradict itself. You cannot cite a single example of one who was continually living in disobedience, rebellion to God's will but God unconditionally saved that person while remaining in that disobedient state.....whosoever continues to not do righteousness continues to not be of God, 1 Jn 3:10.

Eph 2:8-9
saved by grace through faith...God attached a condition to His grace, that condition being faith, Paul did NOT say faith alone. Faith in the NT that saves is an obedient faith that obeys God's will in beliving Jn 8:24 repentance Lk 13:3 confession Mt 10:32-33 and baptism Mk 16:16. Obediently meeting the condition, meeting God's terms on His free gift does not earn the gift.

and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God....the word 'that' refers to salvation and man cannot devise his own plan of salvation to save himself but must be obedient to God's plan of salvation to be saved.

Not of works, lest any man should boast....works here refers to works of merit NOT obedience. If one could merit his own salvation then that would be something to boast about. Obedience is not a work of merit and obedience is not something one can boast about Lk 17:7-10....."when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."
----------------------------------------

Jn 3:16 Jesus requires one to believe to be saved
Lk 13:3 Jesus requires repentance to be saved
Mt 10:32-33 Jesus requires confession of Him to be saved
Mk 16:16 Jesus requires baptism to be saved

Obviously Jesus never required belief alone to be saved. All the belief only in the world can never save an impenitent person.

 

[Jim B]

The BIble requires obedience to God in order to be saved (Heb 5:9; Rom 6:16-18; 2 Thess 1:8; Acts 2:38; etc) and the BIble does not contradict itself. You cannot cite a single example of one who was continually living in disobedience, rebellion to God's will but God unconditionally saved that person while remaining in that disobedient state.....whosoever continues to not do righteousness continues to not be of God, 1 Jn 3:10.

Eph 2:8-9
saved by grace through faith...God attached a condition to His grace, that condition being faith, Paul did NOT say faith alone. Faith in the NT that saves is an obedient faith that obeys God's will in beliving Jn 8:24 repentance Lk 13:3 confession Mt 10:32-33 and baptism Mk 16:16. Obediently meeting the condition, meeting God's terms on His free gift does not earn the gift.

and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God....the word 'that' refers to salvation and man cannot devise his own plan of salvation to save himself but must be obedient to God's plan of salvation to be saved.

Not of works, lest any man should boast....works here refers to works of merit NOT obedience. If one could merit his own salvation then that would be something to boast about. Obedience is not a work of merit and obedience is not something one can boast about Lk 17:7-10....."when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."
----------------------------------------

Jn 3:16 Jesus requires one to believe to be saved
Lk 13:3 Jesus requires repentance to be saved
Mt 10:32-33 Jesus requires confession of Him to be saved
Mk 16:16 Jesus requires baptism to be saved

Obviously Jesus never required belief alone to be saved. All the belief only in the world can never save an impenitent person.

You cite John 3:16, then contradict it! "“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

Don't forget to whom Jesus spoke on the Gospels. And taking single verses out of context from each of the gospels (including one from the diputed "long ending" of Mark) to prove doctrine is the epitome of eisegesis.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You cite John 3:16, then contradict it! "“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

Don't forget to whom Jesus spoke on the Gospels. And taking single verses out of context from each of the gospels (including one from the diputed "long ending" of Mark) to prove doctrine is the epitome of eisegesis.

Jesus said more than Jn 3:16. Jesus required repentance in Lk 13:3 confession in Matt 10:32-33 and baptism in Mk 16:16 to be saved. Jesus did not contradict Himself. The verb "believeth" as used in Jn 3:16 and some other places is used as a synechdoche, a figure of speech were the part (believe) includes the whole (repentance, confession, baptism).

In Acts 2:44 those that were said to have "believed" were the ones who accepted Peter's gospel sermon and were baptized. Therefore "believed" of v44 cannot mean 'believe only' but includes being baptized. John 12:42 there were those who believed on Christ but would not confess Him. Belief void of confession will not save, therefore "believeth" of Jn 3:16 includes repentance, confession and baptism.

No salvific text can be isolated from others salvific texts for the WHOLE of the NT must be considered before one can determine how one can be saved. Salvific texts do not contradict each other as faith onlyists would have us think. It is illogical, bad interpretation and misleading to cite Jn 3:16 then claim 'belief alone' saves apart from repentance, confession or baptism. Likewise it is just as illogical, bad interpretation and misleading if one were to cite 1 Pet 3:21 and claim baptism alone saves apart from belief repentance or confession...or cite Lk 13:3 then falsely claim repentance alone saves apart from belief, confession and baptism.

 

[Jim B]

Jesus said more than Jn 3:16. Jesus required repentance in Lk 13:3 confession in Matt 10:32-33 and baptism in Mk 16:16 to be saved. Jesus did not contradict Himself. The verb "believeth" as used in Jn 3:16 and some other places is used as a synechdoche, a figure of speech were the part (believe) includes the whole (repentance, confession, baptism).

In Acts 2:44 those that were said to have "believed" were the ones who accepted Peter's gospel sermon and were baptized. Therefore "believed" of v44 cannot mean 'believe only' but includes being baptized. John 12:42 there were those who believed on Christ but would not confess Him. Belief void of confession will not save, therefore "believeth" of Jn 3:16 includes repentance, confession and baptism.

No salvific text can be isolated from others salvific texts for the WHOLE of the NT must be considered before one can determine how one can be saved. Salvific texts do not contradict each other as faith onlyists would have us think. It is illogical, bad interpretation and misleading to cite Jn 3:16 then claim 'belief alone' saves apart from repentance, confession or baptism. Likewise it is just as illogical, bad interpretation and misleading if one were to cite 1 Pet 3:21 and claim baptism alone saves apart from belief repentance or confession...or cite Lk 13:3 then falsely claim repentance alone saves apart from belief, confession and baptism.

This is clearly sophistry. You take a verse from one gospel, a verse from a second gospel, a verse from a third gospel -- all out of context -- to "prove" some false doctrine that you have decided is "true". This is a classic example of eisegesis: the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases.

Your sentences that follow are even more preposterous! John 12:42 means one thing, and John 3:16 means something else. It is dangerous to play around with the clear meanings of Scripture, to distort God's word to reinforce your false doctrine!

I will continue to believe what the Bible clearly says. If you don't believe the Bible, may God have mercy on your unbelieving soul.

I will not discuss this with you further, and am putting you on ignore status.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
I was christened an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944, and
eventually attended catechism to complete First Holy Communion and
Confirmation.

My siblings are Catholic, my mother was Catholic, my eldest brother entered
the priesthood and made it to Friar before succumbing to cancer in 2018. My
wife is a former Catholic, her dad was Catholic, his wife was Catholic, my
aunt and uncle were Catholics, and my wife's cousins are Catholic; one of
them is an ordained Deacon.

I was loyal to Rome at first till one day in Feb 1968 I was approached at
work by a Protestant who asked me if I was prepared for Christ's return.

Well; I must've been either asleep or absent the day that the nuns in
Catechism talked about Jesus coming back because that man's question was
the very first time in my whole life that I can remember somebody telling
me. I was 24 and hadn't a clue what he was talking about.

My initial reaction was alarm because I instinctively knew that were I called
on the carpet for a sit-down with Christ, it would not go well for me
because I had a lot to answer for. Well; I don't like being made to feel afraid
so I became indignant and demanded to know why Jesus wanted to come
back. That's when I found out for the very first time that it was in the plan
for Christ to take over the world.

Then the man asked me if I was going to Heaven. Well; of course I had no
clue because Catholics honestly don't know what to expect when they pass
away. I was crossing my fingers while in the back of my mind dreading the
worst.

Then the man said; "Don't you know that Jesus died for your sins?"

Well; I had been taught in Catechism that Jesus died for the sins of the
world; that much I knew; but honestly believed all along that he had been a
victim of unfortunate circumstances. It was a shock to discover that Jesus'
trip to the cross was deliberate, and that his Father was thinking of me when
His son passed away, viz: my sins were among the sins of the world that
Jesus took to the cross with him.

At that very instant-- scarcely a nanosecond --something took over in my
mind as I fully realized, to my great relief, that Heaven was no longer out of
reach, rather, well within my grasp!

That was an amazing experience. In just the two or three minutes of
conversation with that man, I obtained an understanding of Jesus' crucifixion
that many tedious years of Catholic masses and Catechism classes had
somehow failed to get across. Consequently, my confidence in the Roman
Catholic Church was shattered like a bar of peanut brittle candy dropped to
the sidewalk from the tippy top of the Chrysler building.

Long story short: I eventually went with that man to his church and, along
with him and a couple of elders, knelt at the rail down front and prayed a
really simple, naive prayer that went something like this:

"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's
death"

My prayer wasn't much to brag about; but was no doubt the smartest
sixteen words I'd ever spoken up to that time because seeing as how Jesus
gave his life for the whole world, then God couldn't very well refuse my
request; now could He.

• Rom 5:6-8 . . Christ died for the impious. Very rarely will anyone die for a
righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.
But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still
sinners, Christ died for us.

( A really eerie moment happened while I was saying my naïve little prayer.
I got a vivid mental impression of someone there with us. I couldn't see
anything or hear anything, or make out a face or a form. Whatever that
impression was hung around for every last syllable of my prayer, and then it
was gone. I'm not a big fan of paranormal activity but I'm telling you,
something was there; and I hadn't been drinking, wasn't taking any
medications, nor have I ever used drugs of any kind. )

Anyway, the man encouraged me to purchase a Bible and begin reading it
for myself; which I did and anon became an on-going student of the Bible
for 55 years via sermons, seminars, lectures, Sunday school classes, radio
Bible programs, and the various authors of a number of commentaries and
special topics.
_

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

This is clearly sophistry. You take a verse from one gospel, a verse from a second gospel, a verse from a third gospel -- all out of context -- to "prove" some false doctrine that you have decided is "true". This is a classic example of eisegesis: the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases.

Your sentences that follow are even more preposterous! John 12:42 means one thing, and John 3:16 means something else. It is dangerous to play around with the clear meanings of Scripture, to distort God's word to reinforce your false doctrine!

I will continue to believe what the Bible clearly says. If you don't believe the Bible, may God have mercy on your unbelieving soul.

I will not discuss this with you further, and am putting you on ignore status.

There is not but one gospel. And in that one gospel Christ requires belief (Jn 8:24) repentance (Lk 13:3) confession (Mt 10:32-33) and baptism (MK 16:16) to be saved.

Therefore one cannot isolate one verse by itself as Jn 3:16 and proclaim belief only saves while ignoring all other salvific verses contained in that one gospel. Jn 12:42 shows belief alone, that is belief not accompanied by confession of Christ cannot save. Luke 13:3 shows that belief apart from repentance cannot save.

This can only mean that the verb "believeth" in Jn 3:16 must include repentance and confession else Christ contradicts Himself. Jn 3:16, Lk 13:3, Mt 10:32-33 and Mk 16:16 do not contradict each other but all harmonize with each other. No on can make Jn 3:16 teach salvation by belief only no more than one can take Mt 10:32-33 teach salvation by confession only.

 

[marksman]

If you take it as part of the whole, it is just another aspect of a church that virtually ignores the teaching of scripture, substituting it with man-made ideas and rituals. We seem to avoid what is shown and taught in scripture and formed a body of opinion to fit a church that is not the church and once you deviate from scripture in one thing you will deviate from scripture in anything.

So what is the teaching/experience of scripture? Acts 2 v 38. Then Peter said to them, Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (not the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit) for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

v41. Then those who gladly received his word were baptized, NOT said the sinner's prayer.

Anything other than this is not approved by God and to tell someone to say the sinner's prayer is to lie to them.

 

[Jim B]

If you take it as part of the whole, it is just another aspect of a church that virtually ignores the teaching of scripture, substituting it with man-made ideas and rituals. We seem to avoid what is shown and taught in scripture and formed a body of opinion to fit a church that is not the church and once you deviate from scripture in one thing you will deviate from scripture in anything.

So what is the teaching/experience of scripture? Acts 2 v 38. Then Peter said to them, Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (not the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit) for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

v41. Then those who gladly received his word were baptized, NOT said the sinner's prayer.

Anything other than this is not approved by God and to tell someone to say the sinner's prayer is to lie to them.

I totally agree. Minutes after I was healed and saved by Jesus Christ, the pastor asked me to recite the sinner's prayer. Since I was no longer regarded as a sinner by God I (correctly) refused.

 

[DJT_47]

The sinners prayer, so-called or anything similar, is not found in the bible and will not save your soul.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The sinners prayer, so-called or anything similar, is not found in the bible and will not save your soul.

What if the penitent are sincere?

 

[Lambano]

I wouldn't get hung up on this. Like any sacrament, the "Sinner's Prayer" is (or should be) an outward and visible sign of the inward reality of realization of our sin, a change of heart towards God, and trust in Jesus and trust in God's forgiveness.

 

[Jim B]

What if the penitent are sincere?

If s/he is sincere then s/he is probably a believer and considered righteous, i.e., no longer considered a sinner.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If s/he is sincere then s/he is probably a believer and considered righteous, i.e., no longer considered a sinner.

Okay, I just didn't want to dismiss or discount the possibility that God might work through a "sinners prayer" spoken by someone who doesn't know much about anything.

I'm thinking of myself as a teenager. When I came to Jesus Christ, I didn't know anything at all about "the correct" way of doing things. All I knew was that I was a sinner and I wanted to be saved. My first prayers were very clumsy and filled with incorrect theology but God responded to me anyway. He is like that. He met me where I was, which was really nowhere.

But I'm not disagreeing with you though.

 

[David in NJ]

Just a little food for thought.

The LAST thing any of us ever want to hear is "Away from me, you evildoer! I never knew you". Personally I tremble before Him, and trust in His mercy big time and ALL the time!

It seems that the "sinners prayer" is used almost always throughout todays church's. Reading up on some things and thinking on others has kind of got me to thinking...is the so called sinners prayer even biblical?? Think of the emotion connected to some of these alter calls like, how the music will go with the flow...they get very subdued and gradually raise the volume and beat during some calls...this to me reeks of "emotion". Perhaps this is why many who come to Jesus strong in the beginning, but peter out quickly (been there) because that emotion that was first connected to their "choice" has run it's gamut, there is no TRUE power working in them. Yet, they are told over and over again that that is all they have to do to be saved...Jesus knocks, we open. What we should remember is how the gospel was ushered in by JTB...REPENT, BE BAPTISED, THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NEAR!!

Another thing...Jesus knocking at the door of our...heart? Or the church? Hmmm. If read in context it seems more that He is knocking on the door of the church since it is the church's in Rev. that He is speaking to.

“Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends."
Rev. 3:20

It's not just the schools that kicked Jesus out but, the churchs also. The organized churchs for the most part IMHO, are made by, for, and of men. Men have usurped the power of The Holy Spirit. We have so much to answer for.

Any comments?

Nancy - you are correct.

What does JESUS say to each of the churches = "to him who overcomes" = no longer as a group but now HE speaks to individuals

This does not mean that we are to go solo but rather even the more each of us are responsible to Christ = to Hear His words.

As we seek Him individually, He will impart more Grace by which we long for each other in true fellowship in the Holy Spirit.

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. - Hebrews 10:25

The more our desire for the LORD grows = the more we SEE

 

[Nancy]

Nancy - you are correct.

What does JESUS say to each of the churches = "to him who overcomes" = no longer as a group but now HE speaks to individuals

This does not mean that we are to go solo but rather even the more each of us are responsible to Christ = to Hear His words.

As we seek Him individually, He will impart more Grace by which we long for each other in true fellowship in the Holy Spirit.

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. - Hebrews 10:25

The more our desire for the LORD grows = the more we SEE

Thank you for the reply brother! All true but I fall short with fellowship as, there are no church's near me that I will attend. I've been searching for years and went to three over the years only to find their doctrines to be some thing I could not sit under hence, no real fellowship. Actually 4 churchs. One was Calvanist and very cold. I do not at all agree with their doctrines and made not one good friend there, stayed for 3 years too trying to rise above but, was not a fulfilling place. Another was WAY to big and even their small groups were robotic with already written out questions and "correct" answers. Tried two of them and they dwindled down to like three people so, they did not go so well.
Two other church's (the last two I tried) were too liberal for me and they "winked" at sin so, they both were short lived. We have a Catholic church on just about every corner...I am living in the Catholic capitol of Buffalo Ny, lol. So, I simply pray for Him to send me good Christian friends

 

[Ghada]

Good job. It's always a good thing to at least question long standing traditions that sound good, but may be no good with God at all. If the hearer hasn't repented in the pews, then going up front, or having someone saddle of beside them isn't going to help. No is some long prayer that is not from a changed heart.

And it certainly won't help to repeat after me.

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Reading up on some things and thinking on others has kind of got me to thinking...is the so called sinners prayer even biblical??

No. It's only gospel in sinners churches.

And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

It's not for sinners to pray, but to repent, so the newborn saints can now pray to God and be heard.

“Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends."

Repenting of sinning is opening the door. Faith without repenting is calling on Jesus to come on in anyway.

It's not just the schools that kicked Jesus out but, the churchs also.

By kicking out repenting of sinning from the gospel, Jesus is stiff armed at the door.

Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

Jesus doesn't come into any unrepented sinners ditch to have supper with the devil.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?