The snake pit

[JellyJam]

In the mind of the true believer, I am a non-believing lost soul who's only destination is hell. But then there I was walking down some back alley at 1.24am early morning night.

Then I heard a woman crying out, help! Instantly fear attacked me, but my instincts kicked in. I started running to this womans voice, finding some guy trying to have his way with her.

And even though I was afraid, I jumped on him and told the woman to run away.

Who cares what happened after that, so long as that girl escaped her fate.

So my question is, if I was not there that early morning night. Would your God have stepped in all by himself?

 

[JellyJam]

 

[JellyJam]

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

 

[lforrest]

Even non-believers are used by God to achieve his purposes. While you may give yourself credit for the intervention, she may very well thank God for it. All creatures are God's to use as he pleases, and they usually don't even know they were willing participants. So God did step in, in this situation. Had you not been around, yea the woman would likely have been raped.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24) clearly distinguishes between rape and adultery.

 

[JellyJam]

Even non-believers are used by God to achieve his purposes. While you may give yourself credit for the intervention, she may very well thank God for it. All creatures are God's to use as he pleases, and they usually don't even know they were willing participants. So God did step in, in this situation. Had you not been around, yea the woman would likely have been raped.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24) clearly distinguishes between rape and adultery.

Indeed you'd say that, ah!. But then if God used me or someone like me, who was against his very will. How did he use me?

 

[JellyJam]

Even non-believers are used by God to achieve his purposes. While you may give yourself credit for the intervention, she may very well thank God for it. All creatures are God's to use as he pleases, and they usually don't even know they were willing participants. So God did step in, in this situation. Had you not been around, yea the woman would likely have been raped.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24) clearly distinguishes between rape and adultery.

: Revisited.

I did not get my last response out in totality.

All I can say in this revisited rebuttal is, I am far to drunk at the moment to create a coherent opinion.

But that doesn't mean I don't have one, it's just means I have to drink in order to survive in here

 

[lforrest]

Indeed you'd say that, ah!. But then if God used me or someone like me, who was against his very will. How did he use me?

By making sure you were in the right place at the right time.

 

[JellyJam]

By making sure you were in the right place at the right time.

But then what of those who were not, does your God make preparations for those who are brutally mistreated.

Take Cherish, a young girl no more than 11 or 12 I guess. Who was lured into a man's house she thought was a young boy she met online.

She was raped and murdered in the isolation of that man's house.

Think!

Did your God find me at that time, to storm that guy's house and rescue that child.

Or anyone, for that matter.

Eh.

 

[JellyJam]

 

[lforrest]

But then what of those who were not, does your God make preparations for those who are brutally mistreated.

Take Cherish, a young girl no more than 11 or 12 I guess. Who was lured into a man's house she thought was a young boy she met online.

She was raped and murdered in the isolation of that man's house.

Think!

Did your God find me at that time, to storm that guy's house and rescue that child.

Or anyone, for that matter.

Eh.

God's ways are higher than our own. Our ways are concerned with this temporal life. God is more concerned with eternal implications, upon which temporal things can have an impact.

No one but God is able to judge when and where to intervene to achieve the best results for his purposes while not directly countermanding free agency.

 

[Vince]

God's ways are higher than our own. Our ways are concerned with this temporal life. God is more concerned with eternal implications, upon which temporal things can have an impact.

No one but God is able to judge when and where to intervene to achieve the best results for his purposes while not directly countermanding free agency.

Yes, your god is ok with a child being raped without him intervening for some “higher” purpose that you cannot justify. Christianity makes suffering noble. Most people are more moral than this.

 

[Dave L]

In the mind of the true believer, I am a non-believing lost soul who's only destination is hell. But then there I was walking down some back alley at 1.24am early morning night.

Then I heard a woman crying out, help! Instantly fear attacked me, but my instincts kicked in. I started running to this womans voice, finding some guy trying to have his way with her.

And even though I was afraid, I jumped on him and told the woman to run away.

Who cares what happened after that, so long as that girl escaped her fate.

So my question is, if I was not there that early morning night. Would your God have stepped in all by himself?

Unbeknownst to you, God placed you there and had things work out for the better.

“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” (Jeremiah 10:23)

 

[lforrest]

Yes, your god is ok with a child being raped without him intervening for some “higher” purpose that you cannot justify. Christianity makes suffering noble. Most people are more moral than this.

If you know better how should God have intervened?

 

[Vince]

If you know better how should God have intervened?

Maybe step in to stop horrible things that are going to happen to someone.

 

[JellyJam]

God's ways are higher than our own. Our ways are concerned with this temporal life. God is more concerned with eternal implications, upon which temporal things can have an impact.

No one but God is able to judge when and where to intervene to achieve the best results for his purposes while not directly countermanding free agency.

Vince answered that one.

 

[JellyJam]

Unbeknownst to you, God placed you there and had things work out for the better.

“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” (Jeremiah 10:23)

The problem with that theory (If you can call it that) Is first, the Bible doesn't really say that's what your God does. And second, the Bible states that your God is impartial.

Right?

So if your God says his motives are the same across the board, then we really shouldn't ever see any woman or girl raped. Since he does step in on some level (As you are all saying) when in actuality he is picking and choosing who to help or not to help.

That's not impartial, is it.

 

[lforrest]

Vince answered that one.

I was looking for more than a repeat of the question. But actual suggestions.

Due to Jesus' resurrection the Girl would end up with the Lord. The man then has the rest of his life to repent. If the man doesn't, God gets the glory for his patience. If the man does, God gets the glory for his mercy as well as a soul snatched from the devil. Jesus setup a Win win situation.

Should God have struck down that Rapist? Would you have had a problem with a God who does that? Why not punish the man for eternity for what he was planning to do as well. That would be a Win, lose. But perhaps it would be better if the girl goes on to add many souls to the Kingdom, assuming God knows the man would never repent... who can know?

Or God could preempt the temptation, go into the Rapist's mind, and fix it so he would no longer be tempted to sin. But then God would be the Rapist, in a spiritual sense. That is not in his character.

 

[JellyJam]

I was looking for more than a repeat of the question. But actual suggestions.

Due to Jesus' resurrection the Girl would end up with the Lord. The man then has the rest of his life to repent. If the man doesn't, God gets the glory for his patience. If the man does, God gets the glory for his mercy as well as a soul snatched from the devil. Jesus setup a Win win situation.

Should God have struck down that Rapist? Would you have had a problem with a God who does that? Why not punish the man for eternity for what he was planning to do as well. That would be a Win, lose. But perhaps it would be better if the girl goes on to add many souls to the Kingdom, assuming God knows the man would never repent... who can know?

Or God could preempt the temptation, go into the Rapist's mind, and fix it so he would no longer be tempted to sin. But then God would be the Rapist, in a spiritual sense. That is not in his character.

Doesn't your God strike people down anymore? That's Old Testament, right? Yeah, well what about this.

Ananias and Sapphira
1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”

“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”

9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

 

[lforrest]

Doesn't your God strike people down anymore? That's Old Testament, right? Yeah, well what about this.

Ananias and Sapphira
1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”

“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”

9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

God struck down these two for lying, and he continues to reap the rewards from that example. Same as those of Israel who died in the wilderness.

 

[JellyJam]

God struck down these two for lying, and he continues to reap the rewards from that example. Same as those of Israel who died in the wilderness.

I'm losing it Jerry!