The song of Mary- an unorthodox perspective

[BreadOfLife]

"Waiting on Him" is the problem. He just wants to be argumentative.

Sounds like it . . .

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He is shown in spirit (in a dream) that his wife to be is pregnant. In that same dream he thinks to put her away privately. The whole thing is troubling to him (because it’s a dream) -and while he’s still thinking about all of it (contemplating it) he has another dream where an Angel tells him not to be afraid -and to go ahead and take her as his wife. -Which is exactly what he does.

He was shown in a dream. I get it. But still if a man betrothed is shown in a dream, knowing the consummation act would he think it is strange his betrothed is pregnant in the dream? Or excited and happy?

What seems out of place in the dream: is Joseph …to not openly shame her, he thought of putting her away secretly.

I would think even Joseph would ask why in the dream of his betrothed pregnant…had him contemplating not shaming her but putting her away secretly.

Would he also think it isn’t odd to have a dream of your betrothed pregnant…knowing a consummation is coming. But it is odd that in the dream Joseph is considering consequences of what should be done? I would think, he would be disturbed and ask “why? Why Am I contemplating that?” Of my betrothed?

 

[Jim B]

Took her where, Disney land?

INFANTILE!!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Took her where, Disney land?

The Greek word par-al-am-ban'-o means to take, accept, or acknowledge.
Are we done with this foolishness?

 

[Mr E]

Matt. 1L25
He took his wife, but did not have marital relations with her until she gave birth to a son, whom he named Jesus.

What's the problem??

Read the thread. Or don't. It's up to you. All your questions have already been posed and addressed. I shan't be bothered repeating myself. My aim was to present, not convince. Convince yourself, or let yourself remain convinced by others-- even when those others directly contradict logic, common sense, biology and scripture itself.

Believe it or not.... I've got bigger fish to fry.

 

[Waiting on him]

Sounds like it . . .

To be an institution in the eyes of God they had to share the marriage bed. The only plausible answer to the scripture is they had sex once and then abstained till the child was born.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Read the thread. Or don't. It's up to you. All your questions have already been posed and addressed. I shan't be bothered repeating myself. My aim was to present, not convince. Convince yourself, or let yourself remain convinced by others-- even when those others directly contradict logic, common sense, biology and scripture itself.

Believe it or not.... I've got bigger fish to fry.

Sounds to me like you're creating controversy where NONE exists.
That's how many denominations came into existence . . .

 

[Waiting on him]

He was shown in a dream. I get it. But still if a man betrothed is shown in a dream, knowing the consummation act would he think it is strange his betrothed is pregnant in the dream? Or excited and happy?

What seems out of place in the dream: is Joseph …to not openly shame her, he thought of putting her away secretly.

I would think even Joseph would ask why in the dream of his betrothed pregnant…had him contemplating not shaming her but putting her away secretly.

Would he also think it isn’t odd to have a dream of your betrothed pregnant…knowing a consummation is coming. But it is odd that in the dream Joseph is considering consequences of what should be done? I would think, he would be disturbed and ask “why? Why Am I contemplating that?” Of my betrothed?

Could be that Joseph had common sense and knew that women become pregnant through actual sexual relations?

 

[Waiting on him]

He’d probably witnessed the animals on the farm procreate?

 

[BreadOfLife]

To be an institution in the eyes of God they had to share the marriage bed. The only plausible answer to the scripture is they had sex once and then abstained till the child was born.

God made an exception in this case.

Hebrews 9:27 assures us:
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment

What about Enoch and Elijah? Scripture tells us they were taken up to God.
Did God make an exception in their case?
OR, is it as YOU believe - just a "myth"?

 

[Mr E]

He was shown in a dream. I get it. But still if a man betrothed is shown in a dream, knowing the consummation act would he think it is strange his betrothed is pregnant in the dream? Or excited and happy?

What seems out of place in the dream: is Joseph …to not openly shame her, he thought of putting her away secretly.

I would think even Joseph would ask why in the dream of his betrothed pregnant…had him contemplating not shaming her but putting her away secretly.

Would he also think it isn’t odd to have a dream of your betrothed pregnant…knowing a consummation is coming. But is odd that in the dream Joseph is considering consequences of what should be done? I would think, he would be disturb and ask “why? Am I contemplating that?” Of my betrothed?

Fair questions.

Let's say you and your husband are the characters. Except he's not your husband yet. You are engaged to be married and he has this dream wherein he is aware (in the dream) that you are pregnant.... VERY pregnant, like 9 months pregnant. And in the dream, he has a mind to call off the wedding, to call off the engagement and walk away. And in the dream he considers all this. Does that make sense?

But then, that same night-- or sometime later while he remains disturbed by all that above-- he has another dream. And in that dream an angel comes and talks to him and the angel says- 'Don't be afraid to take her as your wife. She really is going to get pregnant-- take her as your wife (HAVE SEX-- it's what take her as your wife means) and she will indeed bear you a son... a descendant through you and your line-- through David, through Judah and so on.....

So he did. When he awoke-- he did as the angel had told him to do and he went and took her as his wife. And they didn't enjoy any subsequent marital relations until after the baby was born.

I suspect your apprehension is not with scripture, but with the narrative you've been taught to believe.

 

[Waiting on him]

Ruth 4:13 KJV
[13] So Boaz took Ruth, and she was his wife: and when he went in unto her, the Lord gave her conception, and she bare a son.
This is how it was done before the third century.

 

[Mr E]

He’d probably witnessed the animals on the farm procreate?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Fair questions.

Let's say you and your husband are the characters. Except he's not your husband yet. You are engaged to be married and he has this dream wherein he is aware (in the dream) that you are pregnant.... VERY pregnant, like 9 months pregnant. And in the dream, he has a mind to call off the wedding, to call off the engagement and walk away. And in the dream he considers all this. Does that make sense?

But then, that same night-- or sometime later while he remains disturbed by all that above-- he has another dream. And in that dream an angel comes and talks to him and the angel says- 'Don't be afraid to take her as your wife. She really is going to get pregnant-- take her as your wife (HAVE SEX-- it's what take her as your wife means) and she will indeed bear you a son... a descendant through you and your line-- through David, through Judah and so on.....

So he did. When he awoke-- he did as the angel had told him to do and he went and took her as his wife. And they didn't enjoy any subsequent marital relations until after the baby was born.

I suspect your apprehension is not with scripture, but with the narrative you've been taught to believe.

As I have already posted - the Greek word used here for "take" (par-al-am-ban'-o) means to take, accept, or acknowledge. "Take" doesn't mean "sex".

They were NOT speaking in Old English . . .

 

[Waiting on him]

God made an exception in this case.

Hebrews 9:27 assures us:
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment

What about Enoch and Elijah? Scripture tells us they were taken up to God.
Did God make an exception in their case?
OR, is it as YOU believe - just a "myth"?

Please don’t start pleading talking snakes to me. I’m listening to the song about the birds and the bees!

 

[Mr E]

As I have already posted - the Greek word used here for "take" (par-al-am-ban'-o) means to take, accept, or acknowledge. "Take" doesn't mean "sex".

They were NOT speaking in Old English . . .

Great!

Now do gennao. And then do gune.

What do those mean? And as @Waiting on him has asked repeatedly.... HOW does one take a wife? When does a woman become a wife? When does a virgin conceive?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Great!

Now do gennao. And then do gune.

What do those mean? And as @Waiting on him has asked repeatedly.... HOW does one take a wife? When does a woman become a wife? When does a virgin conceive?

Joseph took Mary into his home.
That is the final phase of marriage other than consummation.

I've already explained how God made an exception as He sometimes does.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Please don’t start pleading talking snakes to me. I’m listening to the song about the birds and the bees!

I know that was a tough one for ya . . .

 

[Mr E]

Joseph took Mary into his home.
That is the final phase of marriage other than consummation.

I've already explained how God made an exception as He sometimes does.

Not OTHER than consummation. In addition to consummation.

No consummation? She's not yet your wife. Read Levitical law.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Could be that Joseph had common sense and knew that women become pregnant through actual sexual relations?

Exactly. That is the point. If he does indeed know what happens during consummation. Then why the shock. I think of Joseph’s brothers in the OT. They were told they would bow. Would NT Joseph not know the nature of dreams as prophetic and the first thought be “Hey. It is prophesied I will consummate with my betrothed, and God will bless us with a baby!”

Instead …how can I put her away secretly without shaming her.