"The spirit of the Holy One shall come over you..."

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

belantos

New Member
Nov 12, 2010
184
3
0
"The spirit of the Holy One shall come over you..."
by Shmuel Playfair
[edited for easier reading]

In Luke chapter one the messenger Gabriel informs Mary that she will conceive and bear a son who will be given the throne of his father David. She then questions, "How will this be, since I do not know a man?". [1:26-38] Why would a young lady who was already legally married to a son of David and who has just been told that she would soon conceive a son who will be given the throne of his [patrilineal] father David be objecting that she has not yet "known a man"? At that time she was not living together with her husband and consequently she had not yet had an opportunity to know him sexually. In any case, there is nothing in the messenger's reassuring response which negated Mary from getting to know her legal husband, Joseph, and conceiving a son before she left for three months to visit her relative, Elizabeth, in Judea.

From a Jewish perspective, saying that "the spirit of the Holy One will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you" does not negate this young woman actually "knowing" her husband. In Jewish thought every birth is considered to be a miraculous affair involving three parties, the mother, the father, and the power or presence of the Holy One, blessed be He. While the mother and father give the child its physical form, God implants the soul or divine spark within this body. [cf. Talmud Bavli, Kiddushin 30b]. The answer which God's messenger gave to Mary regarding "the power of the Most High overshadowing" her does not negate Mary getting to "know" her husband, Joseph, a patrilineal son of King David, before they actually began to live together. Also, the sign she was given that her relative, Elizabeth, who was called barren had also conceived a son in her old age would not indicate in any way that Mary would not "know" her husband, Joseph.

Mary was not the only woman who conceived a son by the Holy One's power. After Kain was born, Eve said that she had "acquired a man from HaShem". [Gen. 4.1] Also, remember what God said to Avraham: "I will bless her (Sarah), and moreover I will give you a son by her; I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall come from her." [Gen. 17.16] Also, don't forget Hannah's vow to the Almighty: "If You will really look on the misery of Your maidservant, and remember me, and not forget Your maidservant; but if You will give Your maidservant a male offspring (zerah anasheem זֶ֣רַע אֲנָשִׁ֑ים), then I will give him to the LORD all the days of his life...." [1 Samuel 1:11] And, we read in Ruth that "the LORD made her conceive and she bore a son". [4:13] Notice, finally, what Zacharias' wife, Elizabeth, said after she conceived a son: "the LORD has done this to me in the days when he looked on me, to take away my reproach among people." [Luke 1:25]

This special birth story originates in a Jewish milieu where births were considered to be amazing or extraordinary without being "virginal" as we commonly find in various pagan environments. But, since there was no indication given that Mary was infertile at the time, why would this conception be considered astonishing? Apparently, it was considered incredible for a maiden who was not yet living with her legal husband and who has been physically separated from him for three months to have still been impregnated by him.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
"The spirit of the Holy One shall come over you..."
by Shmuel Playfair
[edited for easier reading]

In Luke chapter one the messenger Gabriel informs Mary that she will conceive and bear a son who will be given the throne of his father David. She then questions, "How will this be, since I do not know a man?". [1:26-38] Why would a young lady who was already legally married to a son of David and who has just been told that she would soon conceive a son who will be given the throne of his [patrilineal] father David be objecting that she has not yet "known a man"? At that time she was not living together with her husband and consequently she had not yet had an opportunity to know him sexually. In any case, there is nothing in the messenger's reassuring response which negated Mary from getting to know her legal husband, Joseph, and conceiving a son before she left for three months to visit her relative, Elizabeth, in Judea.

From a Jewish perspective, saying that "the spirit of the Holy One will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you" does not negate this young woman actually "knowing" her husband. In Jewish thought every birth is considered to be a miraculous affair involving three parties, the mother, the father, and the power or presence of the Holy One, blessed be He. While the mother and father give the child its physical form, God implants the soul or divine spark within this body. [cf. Talmud Bavli, Kiddushin 30b]. The answer which God's messenger gave to Mary regarding "the power of the Most High overshadowing" her does not negate Mary getting to "know" her husband, Joseph, a patrilineal son of King David, before they actually began to live together. Also, the sign she was given that her relative, Elizabeth, who was called barren had also conceived a son in her old age would not indicate in any way that Mary would not "know" her husband, Joseph.

Mary was not the only woman who conceived a son by the Holy One's power. After Kain was born, Eve said that she had "acquired a man from HaShem". [Gen. 4.1] Also, remember what God said to Avraham: "I will bless her (Sarah), and moreover I will give you a son by her; I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall come from her." [Gen. 17.16] Also, don't forget Hannah's vow to the Almighty: "If You will really look on the misery of Your maidservant, and remember me, and not forget Your maidservant; but if You will give Your maidservant a male offspring (zerah anasheem זֶ֣רַע אֲנָשִׁ֑ים), then I will give him to the LORD all the days of his life...." [1 Samuel 1:11] And, we read in Ruth that "the LORD made her conceive and she bore a son". [4:13] Notice, finally, what Zacharias' wife, Elizabeth, said after she conceived a son: "the LORD has done this to me in the days when he looked on me, to take away my reproach among people." [Luke 1:25]

This special birth story originates in a Jewish milieu where births were considered to be amazing or extraordinary without being "virginal" as we commonly find in various pagan environments. But, since there was no indication given that Mary was infertile at the time, why would this conception be considered astonishing? Apparently, it was considered incredible for a maiden who was not yet living with her legal husband and who has been physically separated from him for three months to have still been impregnated by him.


That's more works from Satan himself, denying the virgin birth prophecy God Himself gave in Isaiah 7, and that Jesus of Nazareth IS The Christ, Immanuel ("God with us", per Isaiah 7 & 9 and Matthew 1.)

 

belantos

New Member
Nov 12, 2010
184
3
0



That's more works from Satan himself, denying the virgin birth prophecy God Himself gave in Isaiah 7, and that Jesus of Nazareth IS The Christ, Immanuel ("God with us", per Isaiah 7 & 9 and Matthew 1.)


There is no virgin birth prophecy. Isaiah 7 is a sign given to Ahaz and he was to see its fulfilment. The name "God with us" simply means God is with the Jewish people, it doesn't mean that the person called Immanuel is God in the flesh. Lots of people in the bible have "God" in their name. Were they all deity?