The Standard Millennial Positions

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Willie T

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I just thought some of you might appreciate some clarification of the multitude of terms thrown around here.... And, though I intend to post others, I thought I would start with the most obvious.

In developing a systematic eschatology, the standard evangelical viewpoints have tended to be sorted out along millennial lines. The term "millennium” is used in association with prefixes that tend to modify the Second Coming of Christ as to its relation to the millennium: a-millennial, pre-millennial, and post-millennial.

The privative a in "amillennialism” emphasizes that there will be no earthly millennial kingdom as such. The prefix pre indicates that system of eschatology that expects there to be a literal earthly millennial kingdom that will be introduced by the Return of Christ before (pre) it. The prefix post points to the view of the millennium that holds there will be a lengthy (though not a literal thousand years) earthly era of righteous influence for the kingdom that will be concluded by the Return of Christ.

Puritan era postmillennialism tended to expect a literal thousand-year millennium introduced by the conversion of the Jews (rather than the Return of Christ) as the last stage of Christ's earthly kingdom. Modern postmillennialism tends to see the thousand years as a symbolic figure covering the entirety of the Christian era.
 
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Truth7t7

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I just thought some of you might appreciate some clarification of the multitude of terms thrown around here.... And, though I intend to post others, I thought I would start with the most obvious.

In developing a systematic eschatology, the standard evangelical viewpoints have tended to be sorted out along millennial lines. The term "millennium” is used in association with prefixes that tend to modify the Second Coming of Christ as to its relation to the millennium: a-millennial, pre-millennial, and post-millennial.

The privative a in "amillennialism” emphasizes that there will be no earthly millennial kingdom as such. The prefix pre indicates that system of eschatology that expects there to be a literal earthly millennial kingdom that will be introduced by the Return of Christ before (pre) it. The prefix post points to the view of the millennium that holds there will be a lengthy (though not a literal thousand years) earthly era of righteous influence for the kingdom that will be concluded by the Return of Christ.

Puritan era postmillennialism tended to expect a literal thousand-year millennium introduced by the conversion of the Jews (rather than the Return of Christ) as the last stage of Christ's earthly kingdom. Modern postmillennialism tends to see the thousand years as a symbolic figure covering the entirety of the Christian era.
Thanks for the post Willie, I believe?

No place in Revelation 20:1-6 does it show a kingdom on this earth with "Mortal Humans Present" as many believe and teach.

The scripture presented represents the Lord's spiritual realm of eternity, no time.

Angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ, 100% the Lord's spiritual realm of no literal time.

There is no kingdom on earth, with mortal humans present as many claim.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Jesus Christ Returns In the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, as he clearly taught below.

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

"ETERNITY BEGINS"!

Matthew 25:31-46KJV
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus Christ returns, then "The End Comes" Can't be more "Clear" than that.

There is no 1000 year kingdom on earth hidden between verses 23-24 below.

"Then Cometh The End"

1 Corinthians 15:20-24KJV
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7
 

Andre

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(John 5:28 [KJV])
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Two distinct resurrections. The first taking place at the end of the great tribulation. Matthew 24 relates events, spoken of by Jesus, in response to questions received from His disciples, that are due to come to pass here on earth in a very short while. Including the run up to the tribulation period and the tribulation period itself. And finally His second coming. He makes particular mention of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet marking the beginning of the great tribulation.
(Matt 24:21 [KJV])
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
At the end of this three and a half year period Christ will return to this earth to set up the Kingdom of God on earth.
(1Thess 4:16 [KJV])
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
If the Lord descends from heaven, where does He descend to if not to the earth? Every person who ever lived and died in Christ since Adam will be resurrected here. First the dead in Christ and then those who are alive at that time.
(1Cor 15:51 [KJV])
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
(1John 3:2 [KJV])
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
At this time Satan will be bound and a thousand year period will begin without the influence of Satan. The people who survived the tribulation period will enter the millennium period under these conditions. They will be given the opportunity to know the Lord and I should imagine that after surviving the tribulation period many but not all will believe and repent.
(Rev 20:1 [KJV])
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
At the end of this thousand year period Satan will be loosed again and the second resurrection will take place. On this occasion every soul that never had the opportunity to know God will be resurrected in physical form and taught the Gospel. They will have exactly the same opportunity that you and I have today, under the same circumstances. In the end Satan will deceive many as he gathers them to do battle against Jesus. But he will not prevail.
(Rev 20:6 [KJV])
Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
There is nothing in this scripture that indicates that this all takes place in heaven. On the contrary. The nations that Satan deceives are not in heaven and fire does not come down from heaven to heaven. The camp and the beloved city refers to Jerusalem in Israel. Finally the last and general resurrection is described as follows:
(Rev 20:12 [KJV])
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 

ScottA

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Thanks for the post Willie, I believe?

No place in Revelation 20:1-6 does it show a kingdom on this earth with "Mortal Humans Present" as many believe and teach.

The scripture presented represents the Lord's spiritual realm of eternity, no time.

Angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ, 100% the Lord's spiritual realm of no literal time.

There is no kingdom on earth, with mortal humans present as many claim.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Jesus Christ Returns In the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, as he clearly taught below.

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

"ETERNITY BEGINS"!

Matthew 25:31-46KJV
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus Christ returns, then "The End Comes" Can't be more "Clear" than that.

There is no 1000 year kingdom on earth hidden between verses 23-24 below.

"Then Cometh The End"

1 Corinthians 15:20-24KJV
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7
This does not state the truth accurately.

The timing is as stated: "every man in his own order," meaning, not a mass worldly event, but rather over the course of many people's lives until "the end."

The "thousand year reign" refers to these times when Christ reigns upon the earth - in and through His body. The term "a thousand years" is purposely vague because "no man knows the day or the hour." But also (as you elude to) time does not pertain to matters of the kingdom, even while men continue to keep time in the world. Otherwise, the clock has already stopped when Christ said "It is finished." Thus, when Paul refers to "then comes the end", he is not referring to an actual time when eternity begins, as such, but rather when time runs out for "each in his own order."
 
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Truth7t7

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This does not state the truth accurately.

The timing is as stated: "every man in his own order," meaning, not a mass worldly event, but rather over the course of many people's lives until "the end."

The "thousand year reign" refers to these times when Christ reigns upon the earth - in and through His body. The term "a thousand years" is purposely vague because "no man knows the day or the hour." But also (as you elude to) time does not pertain to matters of the kingdom, even while men continue to keep time in the world. Otherwise, the clock has already stopped when Christ said "It is finished." Thus, when Paul refers to "then comes the end", he is not referring to an actual time when eternity begins, as such, but rather when time runs out for "each in his own order."
What ya gonna do with Matthew 25:31-46 below, at the return of Jesus Christ, final judgment and eternity begins, you skipped right over this like it wasn't presented.

Jesus Christ Returns In the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, as he clearly taught below.

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

"ETERNITY BEGINS"!

Matthew 25:31-46KJV
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

ScottA

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What ya gonna do with Matthew 25:31-46 below, at the return of Jesus Christ, final judgment and eternity begins, you skipped right over this like it wasn't presented.
Quit going on like a broken record, plugging your own fixed and misconstrued agenda.

It is you who have missed a very key point: that the timing of these events is "each in his own order." All of Matthew 25:31-46 is true when and to "each" person every time "anyone hears His voice and opens the door" ("each in his own order").
 
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Truth7t7

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Quit going on like a broken record, plugging your own fixed and misconstrued agenda.

It is you who have missed a very key point: that the timing of these events is "each in his own order." All of Matthew 25:31-46 is true when and to "each" person every time "anyone hears His voice and opens the door" ("each in his own order").
So you don't believe in a literal future "Final Judgment" to the eternal lake of fire and eternal life in the kingdom?

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Jesus Christ Returns In the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, as he clearly taught below.

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

"ETERNITY BEGINS"!

Matthew 25:31-46KJV
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

Truth7t7

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Quit going on like a broken record, plugging your own fixed and misconstrued agenda.

It is you who have missed a very key point: that the timing of these events is "each in his own order." All of Matthew 25:31-46 is true when and to "each" person every time "anyone hears His voice and opens the door" ("each in his own order").
Do you dent a future "Bodily" resurrection of the believer at the second advent of Jesus Christ, as seen below?

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
 

Willie T

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To the casual reader here:

Isn't the "reaction" to mentioning just three little schools of thought amazing? And the laughable part is that "you ain't seen nutin' yet." Just wait till some of the others catch wind of this thread, and weigh-in.

Then comes the sad part.......... the very real probability that NONE of these notions (nor those that will soon be espoused by people eager to tell us the REAL future) are anywhere near correct.
 

ScottA

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So you don't believe in a literal future "Final Judgment" to the eternal lake of fire and eternal life in the kingdom?

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Jesus Christ Returns In the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, as he clearly taught below.

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

"ETERNITY BEGINS"!
There you go again harping on your agenda...

But, to answer your question: What is "literal" except that which is of the Lord? You seem to assume that the things of this world are what is literal, and therefore you error in all your agenda positions, not fully considering that God has spoken of His own dealings in His own kingdom and not those of the world.

So, then, I will state it plainly: The judgement by fire is that fire which is between this world and the kingdom of God - that flaming sword, and has nothing to do with the world, but rather with its passing away.
 
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Helen

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To the casual reader here:

Isn't the "reaction" to mentioning just three little schools of thought amazing? And the laughable part is that "you ain't seen nutin' yet." Just wait till some of the others catch wind of this thread, and weigh-in.

Then comes the sad part.......... the very real probability that NONE of these notions (nor those that will soon be espoused by people eager to tell us the REAL future) are anywhere near correct.

I can't read many of these kind of posts/ threads.
I used to get involved...then I came to know that everyone EVERYONE says..they believe " they, and only they" have it all nailed down in order.
Yet I bet not half of it is correct...and then anyway, we know that really everything is nothing more than 'an opinion' maybe right, but could well be 100% wrong.
I believe much more is "Types, Shadows, and Symbolic" than literal .... I no longer believe much, if any of it , is literal at all.

:)
 

Truth7t7

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There you go again harping on your agenda...

But, to answer your question: What is "literal" except that which is of the Lord? You seem to assume that the things of this world are what is literal, and therefore you error in all your agenda positions, not fully considering that God has spoken of His own dealings in His own kingdom and not those of the world.

So, then, I will state it plainly: The judgement by fire is that fire which is between this world and the kingdom of God - that flaming sword, and has nothing to do with the world, but rather with its passing away.
Scott I have no agenda as you claim.

As it stands it appears you deny the bodily resurrection of the believer in 1 Corinthians 15, correct me if I'm wrong?

You deny a future literal destruction of this heaven and earth by fire as seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13, with the claim this fire is spiritual warfare between the kingdom of this world and God's kingdom.

I strongly disagree, as the believer will see a bodily resurrection, and this existing earth will go up in smoke, literally as scripture clearly teaches.

When Jesus returns, it will be in fire and "Final Judgment", dissolvong this earth by his fire, 2 Peter 3:10, Malachi 3:2, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Nahum 1:5, 1 Corinthians 3:13

God has created a New Heaven and Earth, as Identified in Revelation 21:1-5, 2 Peter 3:13, Isaiah 65:17-19, and throughout scripture.
 
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ScottA

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Scott I have no agenda as you claim.

As it stands it appears you deny the bodily resurrection of the believer in 1 Corinthians 15, correct me if I'm wrong?

You deny a future literal destruction of this heaven and earth by fire as seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13, with the claim this fire is spiritual warfare between the kingdom of this world and God's kingdom.

I strongly disagree, as the believer will see a bodily resurrection, and this existing earth will go up in smoke, literally as scripture clearly teaches.

When Jesus returns, it will be in fire and "Final Judgment", dissolvong this earth by his fire, 2 Peter 3:10, Malachi 3:2, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Nahum 1:5, 1 Corinthians 3:13

God has created a New Heaven and Earth, as Identified in Revelation 21:1-5, 2 Peter 3:13, Isaiah 65:17-19, and throughout scripture.
Your stated agenda is to claim no 1000 year reign on earth. Which is only partially correct because your explanation is incorrect (while the scripture is correct). In other words your interpretation is without understanding.

It is correct that there is no "1000" year reign...because it is not earth-time, but stated as a "thousand years" indicating that it is rather God's-time, which is not time at all, but eternal. Meaning the reign...is forever.

It is also not of this world...but is witnessed on this old earth, until the end.

As for a bodily resurrection, I do not deny it...but do deny it in the way that most wrongly understand it. Most consider the resurrection of Christ to be the standard, and this is correct. But then most consider the resurrection and the ascension of Christ to be one and the same, all "bodily" - which is not true. The resurrection was indeed bodily, but the ascension was not, for Jesus did not commend His body to the Father, but His spirit only, saying, "This is my body, take, eat", making the church His body. Which body, after being born again of the spirit of God does not ascend to the Father but in spirit also, just as He himself did. This we know to be true, because the scriptures tell us that "the body returns to the dust, and the spirit to Him who gave it." Thus, a "bodily" entry into the kingdom (of flesh and blood) is not correct.

As for a future destruction of the [old] heavens and earth, I do not deny it. But you look to a future mass event of the destruction, while the scriptures, namely Paul, tell us that the kingdom comes to men, "each in his own order." Thus, when it/he says, "Then comes the end", he refers to that time when "each" passes from death to life, which in the end leaves nothing of what this old world was a manifestation of, having been consumed by holy fire.
 
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Helen

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It is correct that there is no "1000" year reign...because it is not earth-time, but stated as a "thousand years" indicating that it is rather God's-time, which is not time at all, but eternal.

Yay!!!
About time that someone said it that clear.
I should have done it....but your posts hold more weight than mine do! :D
 
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Truth7t7

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Your stated agenda is to claim no 1000 year reign on earth. Which is only partially correct because your explanation is incorrect (while the scripture is correct). In other words your interpretation is without understanding.

It is correct that there is no "1000" year reign...because it is not earth-time, but stated as a "thousand years" indicating that it is rather God's-time, which is not time at all, but eternal. Meaning the reign...is forever.

It is also not of this world...but is witnessed on this old earth, until the end.

As for a bodily resurrection, I do not deny it...but do deny it in the way that most wrongly understand it. Most consider the resurrection of Christ to be the standard, and this is correct. But then most consider the resurrection and the ascension of Christ to be one and the same, all "bodily" - which is not true. The resurrection was indeed bodily, but the ascension was not, for Jesus did not commend His body to the Father, but His spirit only, saying, "This is my body, take, eat", making the church His body. Which body, after being born again of the spirit of God does not ascend to the Father but in spirit also, just as He himself did. This we know to be true, because the scriptures tell us that "the body returns to the dust, and the spirit to Him who gave it." Thus, a "bodily" entry into the kingdom (of flesh and blood) is not correct.

As for a future destruction of the [old] heavens and earth, I do not deny it. But you look to a future mass event of the destruction, while the scriptures, namely Paul, tell us that the kingdom comes to men, "each in his own order." Thus, when it/he says, "Then comes the end", he refers to that time when "each" passes from death to life, which in the end leaves nothing of what this old world was a manifestation of, having been consumed by holy fire.
We agree 1000 years figurative in the spiritual, you appear to be Ahmillennial as myself.

You suggest that Jesus didn't ascend to heaven in a body of "Flesh And Bone"?
Luke 24:39, No Blood Mentioned.

Just as the Angels in Sodom ate with lot, in spiritual bodies that were tangible and seen, Jesus glorified body is the same, a tangible body of "Flesh And Bone" that could eat and drink, in the eternal spiritual.

The eternal kingdom isn't female angels floating around, with long hair and harps.

Luke 24:39-43KJV
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

You suggest that Jesus Resurrected Body Returned To The Grave?

Gods word shows he was the first born of the resurrection, with a tangible body of "Flesh And Bone", As We Will See Him In This Body , And Will Be Like Him At The Future Resurrection.

Revelation 1:7KJV
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

1 John 3:2KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I disagree with your interpretation of "Then Comes The End" as being a spiritual explanation of salvation, passing from spiritual death to life.

The entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 15 is given to the end of this world, as death will be swallowed up in victory, as mortal becomes immortal, "The Last Enemy Is Destroyed, Death" Eternity begins.
 
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ScottA

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You suggest that Jesus didn't ascend to heaven in a body of "Flesh And Bone"?
Luke 24:39, No Blood Mentioned.
1 Corinthians 15:50
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption."

...Two rights don't make a wrong.
Just as the Angels in Sodom ate with lot, in spiritual bodies that were tangible and seen, Jesus glorified body is the same, a tangible body of "Flesh And Bone" that could eat and drink, in the eternal spiritual.
You are looking at this passage backwards. The angels were manifest in the world, but not of the world. They were the likeness of men, and therefore do not qualify as an example of men being the likeness of angels.
You suggest that Jesus Resurrected Body Returned To The Grave?

Gods word shows he was the first born of the resurrection, with a tangible body of "Flesh And Bone", As We Will See Him In This Body , And Will Be Like Him At The Future Resurrection.
No, not back to the grave. That is not what I said, nor did He. But rather, that we have become His body. Therefore, Paul claimed, "To live is Christ."

But no, "flesh and blood" nor "bone" can inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Revelation 1:7KJV
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Here you need to turn your "figurative in the spiritual" eyes on. "Clouds" is a reference to the heavens, wherein, "every eye" will indeed see Him thereafter in the judgement.
1 John 3:2KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
John was confessing that he did not yet know, yet knew that the same would occur with us as with Christ - and it does.
I disagree with your interpretation of "Then Comes The End" as being a spiritual explanation of salvation, passing from spiritual death to life.

The entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 15 is given to the end of this world, as death will be swallowed up in victory, as mortal becomes immortal, "The Last Enemy Is Destroyed, Death" Eternity begins.
The use of "Then comes the end", simply indicates that what Paul was talking about came just before that, meaning that "those who are Christ’s" and "His coming" are "the last" (whom are "the first").

But again, you have quoted the timing, but surely you do not even know what you have said...which, according to this word, means: "Death" is "the end", to which "each comes in his own order."
 
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