The Tabernacle Experience..Is it really new?

[Rex]

In Justin's own words:

I feel lead by the Spirit to lay out the framework for what needs to be done to help bring about the restoration of the spiritual fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles. This is by no means an exhaustive treatise on this subject but rather just a broad sketch of the steps that I believe we should take to accomplish this goal.
To begin with, the reason why we, as ministers of the full gospel of Christ, need to work towards the restoration of this feast is that this third and final spiritual experience is necessary to bring about the perfection of the saints.

Justin FEELS led. He FEELS led to usher in the perfection of the saints through a mystical experience.

And this from his website:

To reiterate, the main points of our plan to restore the spiritual fulfillment of the third and final Feast of Tabernacles to the Body of Christ are as follows.
1. We will concentrate on evangelism of the un-churched so that will can write this vision on a blank canvas.
2. We will restore the office and authority of the apostle and prophet to our movement.
3. We will teach the restored first century Tabernacle theology to our new converts
4. We will seek converts who currently practice or are from polygnist families near areas of conflict where the normative church is not as active.
5. We will seek to make disciples of young adults ages 18 to 25 years old to form the core of our first wave of Tabernacles saints. When they have been taught and become disciples we will send them out as God leads to raise up a second wave of Tabernacle saints.
6. We will seek to keep this movement decentralized so that if one part is hindered the rest of it can continue to function and carry on our vision.

Quite a plan. Number 3 is particularly enlightening.

Perhaps he would also like to rewrite the gospels and the New Testament.

Here's Justin's first outline of the "Tabernacle Movement" dated Dec 28 2012 I'll highlight the points I found troubling , which was everything LOL.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17342-the-tabernacle-movement/
You may have already seen it.

Justin wasn't to happy, and made some excuses about not being finished, I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO SEE HIS FIRST PUBLIC DRAFT
It reads like a, how to start a cult hand book to me. :wacko:

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Dear All,

I must disagree with D's assertion that Christianity is all about self-control. It is written,

" I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." So what your saying is you don't exercise any volition whatsoever, right.

Galatians 2:20

It is hard to have "self" control if you are crucified and Christ lives within you. Does that not mean that Christ controls you? How does Christ control you? He controls you through yeilding to the Holy Spirit. This is what I'm refering to when talking about mystical and gnostic roots in so-called christianity.

Justin, you have lost the plot.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is 'SELF-CONTROL'. Secondly, you or I are not free to MAKE UP our own mind at all. Rather the scriptures command us to bring every thought into obedience to Christ. This is Bible 101.

Monday, April 29, 2013


THE MESSIANIC TABERNACLE EXPERIENCE HOSTED BY DEBRA GROLLER MINISTRIES AT CAMP HALUWASA, HAMMONTON, NEW JERSEY




The interest in Messianic/Hebraic roots, history and experiential religious practices such as the Seder meal has grown tremendously. Its popularity can be credited no doubt to the desire of postmodern Christians and others for the next great mystical experience, signs and wonders, and of course non-doctrinal, non-dogmatic, non-judgmental religion, devoid of the Biblical focus on Jesus Christ alone, or anything else related to the Protestant Reformation, or the constraints of the five solas.

Debra Groller Ministries ....Pentecostal/Word of Faith


More here

It has been suggested that this is a new experience during which the participant(s) ask to have a spirit enter them that they are referring to as the Holy Spirit. Great emotions are said to follow...love and feelings of ecstasy

There is more of course, but this should be examined under the light of the true Gospel, emotional hysteria aside, and one should question if this is really the Holy Spirit or some other spirit

Open to discussion...scripture is of course very welcome with reference please and all articles should have a link if quoted







I don't believe in hiding anything. Bring it all into the Light. Discuss it all....

My personal opinion is that people are acting as mediums when they allow these spirits to speak through them. This is not in keeping with the
gifts of the spirit and not in keeping with the NT Christian church .

Love it! Punch it out sister.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

Seems everyone is missing the point somewhat. You all seem to advocate "self control" so that you do the commandments of God and do not sin. What I advocate and what I believe "walk in the Spirit" means is that we yield our members to the Holy Spirit so that we do not want to sin. There is a difference. Self control originates with you while Spirit control originates with God. The first is weak because it comes from our flesh while the second is strong because it comes from God.

Why are people afraid of the Holy Spirit? Why are people gnashing their teeth?

Blessings,

Justin

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Seems everyone is missing the point somewhat. You all seem to advocate "self control" so that you do the commandments of God and do not sin. What I advocate and what I believe "walk in the Spirit" means is that we yield our members to the Holy Spirit so that we do not want to sin. There is a difference. Self control originates with you while Spirit control originates with God. The first is weak because it comes from our flesh while the second is strong because it comes from God.

Why are people afraid of the Holy Spirit?

That's not what I'm advocating at all. I am saying exercise self-control so as to walk in the spirit. Self-control enables us to remain separate from the defilements of the world and flesh, which allows the spirit to remain with us. Yielding to the spirit is a fruit of faith, not to be mistaken for faith itself.

You're projecting by implying that we are afraid of the holy spirit. Based on your recent comments, it now does appear to me that you are, or are on the verge of, misinterpreting what you have experienced, or are experiencing.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear C,

It looks like you do not get what I am saying becuase you may have not experienced what I am talking about. It is kind of like trying to explain speaking in other tougnes to a person who has never done so and believes it is unscriptural.

Walking in the Spirit has little to do with self control and everything to do with Holy Spirit control. The first is through you will the second is yielding your will. Every try to push a cat? That is a good example of yielding. However you push on the cat it usually yeilds. Self control is working out your salvation in the flesh. God control is yielding to His Holy Spirit such that you naturally do the things that are contained in the law.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It looks like you do not get what I am saying becuase you may have not experienced what I am talking about. It is kind of like trying to explain speaking in other tougnes to a person who has never done so and believes it is unscriptural.

I'm assuming that you would put the best of what you've experienced on your website in order to highlight the excellencies of it. If that's the case, then I can assure you that you have not experienced things that I have experienced. I don't talk about those things, or glory in them, because they are past and were for the edification of those involved.

 

[Niki]

Love it! Punch it out sister.

.................. ^_^


The truth is always something to celebrate! I get excited about scripture and how God performs the word He has spoken. The Bible is alive!

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts
and attitudes of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

I don't think you can do this ^^^^ with an experience! God's word is also a firm foundation upon which we can stand and upon which we base our faith...God
honors His word and it does not return to Him void! This is great news! God does not change from one hour to the next...He is always the same..steadfast in
His love and full of mercy and compassion to us down here on planet earth. (Lamentations)

You can't get that out of an experience either because only ONE person has the experience...we can break the bread of the Word together and SHARE that
experience as we focus on Christ and all God has done for us. I don't need to work up emotions...they come naturally when I read God's word as He makes
that word alive to me by His Spirit.


Rex:

Justin wasn't to happy, and made some excuses about not being finished, I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO SEE HIS FIRST PUBLIC DRAFT
It reads like a, how to start a cult hand book to me. :wacko:

yes...I'll have a look...thanks! I have read some of yr thread regarding your findings (and quoted as you prob have seen) and I will continue to read...good research

I am finding the same as I look into it


"J"

Seems everyone is missing the point somewhat. You all seem to advocate "self control" so that you do the commandments of God and do not sin. What I advocate and what I believe "walk in the Spirit" means is that we yield our members to the Holy Spirit so that we do not want to sin. There is a difference. Self control originates with you while Spirit control originates with God. The first is weak because it comes from our flesh while the second is strong because it comes from God.

Why are people afraid of the Holy Spirit? Why are people gnashing their teeth?

Are you perhaps afraid of the T experience spirit because I am certainly not afraid of the Holy Spirit! I don't care for the Tabernacle spirit you write of.....but the Holy Spirit
is wonderful !

Aren't you turning up the rhetoric just a bit? Gnashing teeth? you forgot the wailing.............. <_<

Self control originates with you while Spirit control originates with God

That is not what the book of Galatians states:


But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

I found this note on the above scripture:

In looking at Galatians 5:22,23 it quickly becomes evident that by reserving the mention of self-control to last, the apostle Paul is deliberately emphasizing it as the capstone of all the graces of the Spirit. While the fruits reflect the maturing work of the Spirit in an individual’s life, they also become apparent in relationships with other people.

• “So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature” (Galatians 5:16).
• “For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose” (Philippians 2;13).
• “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ” (Romans 8:9).

This is not control as in "I have no choice and must act in obedience to something that has taken me over", as we always have a choice. The sinful nature has a choice.....a person
can still choose what they will do unless they are out of their mind and it is the same with the Holy Spirit...He does not force us or compel in such a manner that we feel we MUST
do such and such or else! People are taught such things and it is not biblical!

I think it is quite concerning, Justin, that you either did not know or perhaps have forgotten, that self-control is indeed a fruit of the Holy Spirit and not something that we work up
ourselves but attain as the Spirit of God works within us to conform us to the image of Christ as we surrender our lives to Him.

As far as a spirit actually controlling anyone, that should only originate if one is a practitioner of voodoo....where they also invite spirits to enter them, or a fortune teller,
or a practitioner of kundalini yoga. The control of a human body by a foreign spirit is not a biblical concept UNLESS the narrative is dealing with the demonic. That, is'the only
place we see people falling over, acting out of control and falling down with harm to the self. Even when the Holy Spirit fell on the day of Pentecost, we do not read of
people who are out of control...Peter was quite in control when he spoke to the gathered crowd and explained what was going on.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I found this note on the above scripture:

In looking at Galatians 5:22,23 it quickly becomes evident that by reserving the mention of self-control to last, the apostle Paul is deliberately emphasizing it as the capstone of all the graces of the Spirit. While the fruits reflect the maturing work of the Spirit in an individual’s life, they also become apparent in relationships with other people.

I have to disagree with this persons commentary. Do notice that Peter mentions self-control as 3rd in a sequence of 7 leading to agape.

and [for] this same [reason], and [by] applying all diligence, supply with your faith excellence of character, and with excellence of character, knowledge, and with knowledge, self-control, and with self-control, patient endurance, and with patient endurance, godliness, and with godliness, brotherly love, and with brotherly love, love. 2 Peter 1:5-7

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear C,

Thanks for assuring me. I was worried for a bit...smile.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Dear All,

Seems everyone is missing the point somewhat. You all seem to advocate "self control" so that you do the commandments of God and do not sin. What I advocate and what I believe "walk in the Spirit" means is that we yield(Define yield) our members to the Holy Spirit so that we do not want to sin. What members are they? There is a difference. Self control originates with you while Spirit control originates with God). The first is weak because it comes from our flesh(define flesh in your context) while the second is strong because it comes from God. NB: The will(volition) is a function of the spirit/soul of man and is not corrupted but enslaved before regeneration & it too comes from GOD.

Why are people afraid of the Holy Spirit? We are not afraid of God but satan's ministers who appear as men of righteousness. We are particularly concerned with those who major on the Holy spirit, so as to bypass Christ and his commands and this is done with great subtlety and stealth.

Moreover you people talk much about the "holy spirit" & you worship the "holy spirit" and give him precedence over God the Father and in particular the LORD JESUS CHRIST his son. You will claim that you don't and all you do is for his glory but you're liars and deceivers. Why, for where your treasure is so will your heart be. My treasure is Jesus himself and he is the first and the last on my lips.

I find it interesting to note that Peter said show us the Father and Jesus sorted that out but not once was it asked show us the Holy Spirit. Rather scripture states he does NOT talk about himself but only that he hears. i.e. NO FOCUS at all except not to grieve GOD. Why are people gnashing their teeth? The only people that will gnash their teeth apart from the sinners and the ungodly will be FALSE TEACHERS, who're assured of their punishment.

Blessings,_ This is not a benediction or a blessing but a curse!

Justin

NB: What's most on our lips is reflective of where our affections and energy lie's. So again, where your heart is there will be your treasure also - JESUS.

Personally, I think 'holy spirit" chasers are serving their own hedonistic self and serving self, period. Moreover they're mediums for the doctrine of devils.

 

[Niki]

I have to disagree with this persons commentary. Do notice that Peter mentions self-control as 3rd in a sequence of 7 leading to agape.

and [for] this same [reason], and [by] applying all diligence, supply with your faith excellence of character, and with excellence of character, knowledge, and with knowledge, self-control, and with self-control, patient endurance, and with patient endurance, godliness, and with godliness, brotherly love, and with brotherly love, love. 2 Peter 1:5-7

It's not my commentary, it's a quote...as I noted.

That doesn't really matter though, because my reference is to Galatians listing THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT which is not what you have referenced. You have referenced
another book entirely and another context entirely.

Did you fail to see that? Without a doubt, self control comes about in different ways, but it IS listed as one of the fruits of the spirit which Justin does not seem to agree with

What we have is Paul writing about one thing and Peter writing about another. We also have me pointing out one thing and you pointing out something else and appearing
to state that they are the same.

That could be confusing which is why we have these convenient references in our Bibles.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

That, is NOT control of the person the way the T experience is being put forth.

It simply means that the believer will exhibit these traits...it does NOT mean the Holy Spirit or any other spirit is controlling them.

To state, as has been stated in this thread, that God controls anyone, is devilish and VERY misleading. No one should allow control by a spirit. That is not
how God operates in the lives of believers....that is exactly how demonic spirits operate

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It's not my commentary, it's a quote...as I noted.

I realized that was not your quote. That's why I said 'this persons' instead of 'your'.

My point was that Peter describes a specific sequence of sanctification which leads to love; one fruit grows out of the other into a fullness of love. Paul was just listing various fruits of the spirit; no specific order. So I don't think the commentator's conclusion is merited.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear J,

Wow, that was quite a rant for you. Usually you are more even in your replies.

Holy Spirit chaser? Is that evil in your sight? I suppose your concept of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit influence your comments a bit. However, your zeal is misplaced if you denigrate those who wish to experience God.

Your fox hole is very deep and should have a sign that read, "approach with caution."

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rex]

What do expect Justin, your fox hole smells a lot like a lost Mormon looking to round up a bunch of fillies as a prophet and send the boys out in black pants and white shirts.

You exhibit the same type of false humility and persistence as well and instead of professing the book of Mormon or the pearl of great price you have nothing except follow me and a dead web page.

Why don't you go get your thoughts together and write a book like Smith did, it's pretty apparent there's not many here willing to put on a black and white uniform and ride around on a bicycle evangelizing your vision. Your first post"s" "in the polygamy thread" and my first impression of you were spot on.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17342-the-tabernacle-movement/

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I wish all the "Tabernacle promoters" would quit beating around the bush and come right out and say what exactly they are wanting to accomplish.

Everything they present is in riddle-speak with vague references to vague tabernacle exercises.

 

[Niki]

I realized that was not your quote. That's why I said 'this persons' instead of 'your'.

My point was that Peter describes a specific sequence of sanctification which leads to love; one fruit grows out of the other into a fullness of love. Paul was just listing various fruits of the spirit; no specific order. So I don't think the commentator's conclusion is merited.

Sorry...wasn't sure. Thanks for explaining.

Well how about the point I made from Galatians? You have to take the Bible as a whole...it does not contradict itself...if what I stated is true and what you
state is true, that is exclusive of each other, then we have a contradiction.

I think you are missing the point by focusing on one aspect here and missing the bigger picture. Self control as a fruit of the Holy Spirit is not control
by God...as someone said and self control, as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, is obviously not a fleshly self help achievement.

 

[logabe]

I wish all the "Tabernacle promoters" would quit beating around the bush and come right out and say what exactly they are wanting to accomplish.

Everything they present is in riddle-speak with vague references to vague tabernacle exercises.

The Feast of Tabernacles is experienced through faith @ the present. As a
believer, you know that in the 2nd Coming of Christ, the Overcomers will be
manifested or seen by the rest of the creation (Rom. 8:19, 22).

Can you imagine seeing someone in the physical doing things just like Jesus
done when he lived on this earth. Jesus said, greater works shall you do,
because I go unto the Father. Do you know anybody that has come close to
what Jesus done? Me neither, but Jesus said, one day the Overcomers will
accomplish his words.

That will happen when the Feast of Tabernacles is historically revealed. Some
day soon, we will see Tabernacles revealed by the Sons of God putting on a
new body of immortality for the purpose of saving the nations (Ps. 2:8). We
can also look @ Ps. 22:27 and Ps. 86:9.

Paul said, know you not that your body is the Tabernacle of the Holy Ghost in
1st Cor. 3:16. God will use that Tabernacle or body that has been sanctified by
this present life, which is called the wilderness, to bring in all flesh (Ps. 65:2).

I was taught the next big thing to happen in the Kingdom was the rapture.
Well... that was invented by man (woman) in the 1800's for the purpose of
deceiving people and causing them to believe a lie. We have to Overcome the
lies in order to qualify for this Tabernacle experience.

In essence, Tabernacles is an experience that hasn't arrived, but we believe in
the near future everything will change for the better. We have hope in the words
of Jesus and we know that hope will come to pass (Rom. 8:24-25). God is bringing
heaven down to earth in an experience the world has never seen. Look up for your
redemption draweth nigh.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[Niki]

I wish all the "Tabernacle promoters" would quit beating around the bush and come right out and say what exactly they are wanting to accomplish.

Everything they present is in riddle-speak with vague references to vague tabernacle exercises.

All you have to do is follow the link the website and do some research for yourself. I'm out of big spoons today.

For that matter, there are many descriptions already in place. Kindly read them to see what you have been missing
Can you imagine seeing someone in the physical doing things just like Jesus
done when he lived on this earth. Jesus said, greater works shall you do,
because I go unto the Father. Do you know anybody that has come close to
what Jesus done? Me neither, but Jesus said, one day the Overcomers will
accomplish his words.

That will happen when the Feast of Tabernacles is historically revealed. Some
day soon, we will see Tabernacles revealed by the Sons of God putting on a
new body of immortality for the purpose of saving the nations (Ps. 2:8). We
can also look @ Ps. 22:27 and Ps. 86:9.




...........or not...........

Itching ears doctrine. That's all it is. I simply cannot believe how you all ignore scripture, twist scripture and do your best to mock those who believe scripture.

God allows you to follow your own course to your destruction. He has already revealed the truth.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

So in other words this is simply a man made religious ritual.

Didn't we at one time fault the RC's for their abundance of religious rituals ?

Isn't the whole concept of Christianity freedom from religious rituals ?

If our bodies are the tabernacle for the Holy Spirit .... and if Jesus replaced and fulfilled the original sacrifice on the altar of the tabernacle .... then you should adapt the RC position that the communion bread and wine are the literal body and blood of Christ.

That way the tabernacles could swallow the tabernacles.

It would be a double whammy religious exercise for those who are so inclined.

 

[Niki]

It is the teaching that the 'sons of God' will be made manifest to the world and will present a super race of Christians, if you will,
which accomplishes greater miracles than Jesus. They believe they will be made perfect without death...which is totally contrary
to scripture as scripture states :"It is appointed to man to die once"...everyone dies...and no one is made perfect. Even Jesus had
a resurrection body but these false prophets and teachers believe they are going to be more than Jesus.

Don't laugh...it is actually a very dangerous and seductive doctrine of devils...part of the falling away and while they are falling away
and pulling others into their whirlpool of deception, people are dying for lack of true knowledge and the true gospel.

They are presenting a false Jesus or what is sometimes called 'another Jesus' and as you may have noted, anyone who points out
the error and false doctrine, is immediately attacked and told they don't have the Holy Spirit or they do not love God or they are not
seeking God. They may actually believe this as they are convinced, by seducing spirits, they they alone have the true doctrine or
mystical teachings of scripture which hide behind the other scripture that regular Joes hold. You have to be special to see the real
thing...which is actually a lie...and this is where I get off that merry go round.

Doctrine is actually something that Justin himself abides by...albeit a false doctrine.

Doctrine is this:

a : something that is taught

b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma

c : a principle of law established through past decisions

d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations

e : a military principle or set of strategies

Doctrine can be any set of beliefs. In fact. The Tabernacle Experience is actually a FALSE doctrine. You see, a person cannot get away
from the word doctrine.