The Tabernacle Movement

[mjrhealth]

Actually JM I nver had a bad day in church, I found Christ, or is it He found me, not that He is Lost in any way, or hiding for that matter,and He is more than enough for Me.

In All His Love

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear M,

Then where are you coming from? I really could not tease out the meaning of your objections other than "Thats bad." Now, perhaps my choice of words is what is bothring or something. I would be interested if you would clarify you objects and reasons if you have the time. Please be specific.

Thanks,

Justin

 

[KingJ]

Dear KJ,

You know...just saying "No Offence" does not mean you can then say offensive things and not be offensive. An alternate way to say the same thing would have been "Your tabernacles teaching is as non-scriptural as keeping the Sabbath holy." You say the same thing but sound better while doing it.



Blessings,

Justin

Agreed. No need to not talk nicely :).

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

The fundamental reason outpourings of the Holy Spirit crash is because our wineskins are not supple enough to contain the new wine of the outpouring of God's Spirit in the first place. Thus, when our old wineskin bursts the new wine spills in various unpleasant ways.

The problem is that people who criticize what God does is that they blame the new wine for the spillage rather than realize that it is the catastrophic failure of the old wineskin that is the source of the problem. Moreover, rather than understanding that the old wineskin is now useless many people still cling to and cherish the broken vessel that once held wine when it has already proven woefully inadequate to the task of accommodating what God wishes to do.

The theology of many churches demands that anything out of the ordinary must be rejected and vilified. Those who hold on to what they are taught only act in accordance with their theology when they call what God does of the Devil. Those steeped in dogma must oppose new moves of His Spirit, such as Tabernacles, because it is the only logical conclusion they can reach given the theological framework they hold as inviolate. Just like the Pharisees of old they rejected the very God they profess to believe in because He does not come in a manner consistent with their belief system.

Here is a truth,

"When faced with a choice between what you believe and what God is obviously doing one has to make a decision: do you accept God and change your theology to fit your experience or do you reject the experience and cling to what you believe."

According to how people handled this question they will either accepted or rejected the coming move of Tabernacles (or anything different for that matter.).

I am sure that right up until 70 AD the various religious institutions of Israel proclaimed that they had acted only in the best interest of their God and nation concerning the crucifixion of Christ. However, no matter how certain they were and no matter how much they believed that that their actions were appropriate God simply did not agree.

Those who oppose the Spirit of God are basically in the same boat with those who rejected Jesus at His first coming. People who reject the move of Tabernacles will believe they have every reason to reject what the Holy Spirit is doing citing scriptural grounds that are no more valid than what the Pharisees possessed against the Son of God in the first century.

A evil and adulterous generation said show us a sign and Jesus did. Those who oppose the moving of God's Spirit say show us scripture and people have. In either case those who opposed God were not convinced because their minds were set like flint and their foreheads were and are as hard as brass. Even the Son of God could not convince the leadership of His own people for they clung to their theology rather than God because their theology had become their God.

As it was then so it is now.

Sincerely,

Justin

 

[mjrhealth]

Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

See Christ does not desire we follow men, we are supposed to belong to Him, His Sheep,. Men love following movements, so easily deceived. We have the Holy Spirit, Christ is teh only way, there is no other way, not ours not theres only Him.The JW's come, lovely people, know the truth (head knowlegde, no revelation) can have wonderfull conversations, than comes the crunch, so than you must belive that Jesus has a church"??, see satan is sly and cunning how many other religions work that way. I can only point people to Christ, anything else brings Him no glory. If they want Christ, He is not hard to find, if they dont want Jesus they can always go to church or follow movements where they can hear what they want to hear. Wont save them.

In all His most bountiful Grace and Love

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear M,

I don't think you really understand where I am coming from. We are discussing two different things I think. Christ was a move of God...the greatest that the world has ever known. Like it or not God does work through men and women to bring about His will here on Earth. Real things have to happen to move the kingdom of God forward. What is important is that those who are being used to do so submit to the Holy Spirit.

All that happens here, on the this forum, is simply text on a screen. I use it simply to sharpen what I think and get feedback from other peoploe. However, it is in our action that we effect the reall world. There is a quote from T.E.Lawerence's book, "The Seven Pillars of Widsom" that I like.

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did."​

 

[mjrhealth]

I do know what you are saying but it troubles my spirit, its by the spirit we test things. As I said, I hope you know what you are doing for you will be responsible for all you deceive even though in the end they too are ultimatly responsible for what they believe.If it not out of Love it is not from God.

In His Love

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear M,

Lets just take the Gamaliel position then.

BLessings,

Justin

 

[veteran]

Rex is very correct in giving warning about that kind of movement. That system is clearly a system some man or group of men devised outside of God's Word. Proof? There is NO such requirement written anywhere in God's Word that a Christian believer must fulfill that Tabernacle Feast idea for this world, for the Feast of Tabernacles is a feast that Jesus Himself will require of us after He returns (per Zech.14). Someone trying to make that a requirement today is like they have put themselves in Christ's place and authority.

I recall a mystical tabernacle movement back in the 1980's, and it was associated with mysticism. Sounds like the same kind of thing. Might be the same movement.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear V,

I am not familiar with such a movement. What was its name?

In truth, you do not understand what I am talking about simply because your theological framework will not allow you to think in ways that are not consistent with your beliefs. I know how it is...you fear to let your mind go in certain directions because you do not want to go against your doctrine.

That is fine with me. I am not here to make disciples but rather just to road test a few doctrines and see how they handle. Aside from a few belligerents others have been quite helpful. some of what has been said here has been useful and even revelatory at times.

I don't read certain individuals posts or replies anymore because they have not comported themselves well. The sky is not falling nor is the world about to end just because I believe a bit differently than they do. This is just a forum where we share ideas, opinions, and perspectives. No need to get nasty about things in my view.

Finally, I am really aware that a lot of people and "movements" have run into trouble when they have become isolated and begin to believe that are the end all and be all of what God is doing. Hurt and pride seem to go together. However, and this is something that Christians might consider, those who persecute people who have different ideas help isolate them. Even though they seek to dissuade them from going astray the way they go about it, by shunning, does not accomplish the end that I think they have in mind.

I think that you, as a person, really do wish to give warning because you do in fact care about Christ and His body of believers. If the caring goes with the warning then that is all well and good. If people just want to burn you in effigy for believing differently then they it does not leave much room for compromise or understanding. The wounds of a friend are faithful...we should all seek to be friends.

 

[veteran]

Dear V,

I am not familiar with such a movement. What was its name?

In truth, you do not understand what I am talking about simply because your theological framework will not allow you to think in ways that are not consistent with your beliefs. I know how it is...you fear to let your mind go in certain directions because you do not want to go against your doctrine.

That is fine with me. I am not here to make disciples but rather just to road test a few doctrines and see how they handle. Aside from a few belligerents others have been quite helpful. some of what has been said here has been useful and even revelatory at times.

I don't read certain individuals posts or replies anymore because they have not comported themselves well. The sky is not falling nor is the world about to end just because I believe a bit differently than they do. This is just a forum where we share ideas, opinions, and perspectives. No need to get nasty about things in my view.

Finally, I am really aware that a lot of people and "movements" have run into trouble when they have become isolated and begin to believe that are the end all and be all of what God is doing. Hurt and pride seem to go together. However, and this is something that Christians might consider, those who persecute people who have different ideas help isolate them. Even though they seek to dissuade them from going astray the way they go about it, by shunning, does not accomplish the end that I think they have in mind.

I think that you, as a person, really do wish to give warning because you do in fact care about Christ and His body of believers. If the caring goes with the warning then that is all well and good. If people just want to burn you in effigy for believing differently then they it does not leave much room for compromise or understanding. The wounds of a friend are faithful...we should all seek to be friends.

The only name it referred to that I recall was The Tabernacle Studies. A friend of mine got ahold of some their monograph teachings. Myself being familiar with the esoteric Kabbalistic movements of old European history, there was a direct parallel to it like the system of initiations inside a masonic temple, moving around from point to point with a specific teaching imparted at each point. Only difference was, replace that temple initiation ritual with the Tabernacle layout.

Because of what you seem to be detailing with the Tabernacle idea, I can't but help see an association.

 

[Rex]

The only name it referred to that I recall was The Tabernacle Studies. A friend of mine got ahold of some their monograph teachings. Myself being familiar with the esoteric Kabbalistic movements of old European history, there was a direct parallel to it like the system of initiations inside a masonic temple, moving around from point to point with a specific teaching imparted at each point. Only difference was, replace that temple initiation ritual with the Tabernacle layout.

Because of what you seem to be detailing with the Tabernacle idea, I can't but help see an association.

Maybe you could persuade Justin to revel who started the movement in this post he claims to not be the author or revelator

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17172-manifestations/page-3#entry179886

Actually, I believe the spiritual fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles will be the finishing work of the body of Christ in this age. I didn't start it but hope to be a part of it.

I've suspected this from reading the pre-canned teachings from his site, many he has posted here as thread starters, they just don't strike me as being written by Justin, I may be wrong but with his statement below It becomes more likely in my mind. He ether has me on ignore or he simply chooses to not respond to my post any-longer nether of which concerns me, I simply felt like sharing some thoughts with you on this subject. The Masons are also believed to be similar in disclosing information and initiations progressively. It's not a new or uncommon theme. I have search for information on the tabernacle source I would be interested in reading what your friend discovered If it available on the web.

 

[veteran]

I've suspected this from reading the pre-canned teachings from his site, many he has posted here as thread starters, they just don't strike me as being written by Justin, I may be wrong but with his statement below It becomes more likely in my mind. He ether has me on ignore or he simply chooses to not respond to my post any-longer nether of which concerns me, I simply felt like sharing some thoughts with you on this subject. The Masons are also believed to be similar in disclosing information and initiations progressively. It's not a new or uncommon theme. I have search for information on the tabernacle source I would be interested in reading what your friend discovered If it available on the web.

Here's one source for it, though I do not agree with a lot of other things on that website...

http://www.biblestudysite.com/tabstud.htm

Here's one of the Tabernacle Studies personal letters posted on that site:


"Our goal for this study is to share patterns in the Tabernacle which will be keys for your progression, step by step, discovery of how to Be [Emphasis in original] all that you are pre-programmed to Be [Emph. in Orig.] in the spirit of "Christ in you" Anointing.

We will focus on the Tabernacle as a parable, (Hebrews 9:9). The hidden truths will help you, in the Anointing to discover the goal of "Manchild". The "Manchild" is a mature Son [capitalization in Orig.] who portrays the attributes of his Heavenly Father.

We have tried to avoid traditions [Emph. in Orig.] which Jesus showed us "rob the word of God of it's Power." (letter from a Tabernacle Studies rep posted on biblestudysite.com).

Simply compare that with what Justin has been pushing.


For those not yet aware of what esoteric mysticism is about, it is a progressive system of revelation imparted through initiation into certain 'mysteries' of the ancient temples of pagandom. It involves ceremonial ritual worship, and the idea of secrets that place the petitioner for illumination above the masses. Using the Kabbalistic Tree as a model, one progresses to attain to levels of illumination by the revealing of certain esoteric secrets that open up spiritual manifestations in order to become 'one' with the so-called cosmic. In essence, it is the practice of eastern paganism. It is a system that promotes the vain attempt to be one's own 'god', here on earth.

What some of these mystical schools of secret initiation teach is like a scientific method towards becoming one's own Christ, literally. How that is meant is like this: they do not recognize the Biblical idea of The Christ as being a specific Person in The Godhead. They recognize Christ in a supernatural 'force' sense ("may the force be with you", exactly like that). In that sense, they believe Jesus of Nazareth attained... The Christ Spirit in order to fulfill His Mission. That is meant like ANYONE likewise can 'attain'... that same Christ Spirit force, and become their own Christ. In that sense they name it "Christ Consciousness" or "Cosmic Consciousness", separating the idea of The Christ apart from the man Jesus. And by attuning to that Christ Consciousness, and learning to progressively develop it within, one can thus attain to perfection, here on earth (which really is meant to become one's own god).

The difference with Christ's Salvation is that we progress in maturity through Faith and the Knowledge of Christ per His Gospel and Word. And He Himself directs every man into that by The Holy Spirit Comforter. That does not require a working behind closed doors nor with progressions with a type temple (or Tabernacle) mystical initiation ritual, but through Faith, prayer, and study in God's Word, and then serving Christ while we are this world.

 

[Rex]

Here's one source for it, though I do not agree with a lot of other things on that website...

http://www.biblestudysite.com/tabstud.htm

Here's one of the Tabernacle Studies personal letters posted on that site:


"Our goal for this study is to share patterns in the Tabernacle which will be keys for your progression, step by step, discovery of how to Be [Emphasis in original] all that you are pre-programmed to Be [Emph. in Orig.] in the spirit of "Christ in you" Anointing.

We will focus on the Tabernacle as a parable, (Hebrews 9:9). The hidden truths will help you, in the Anointing to discover the goal of "Manchild". The "Manchild" is a mature Son [capitalization in Orig.] who portrays the attributes of his Heavenly Father.

We have tried to avoid traditions [Emph. in Orig.] which Jesus showed us "rob the word of God of it's Power." (letter from a Tabernacle Studies rep posted on biblestudysite.com).

Simply compare that with what Justin has been pushing.

Its one in the same.
I find Justin's persistence with this both amazing & alarming when viewed with his testimony of having 5 years of bible collage.
As I'm sure he's probably equally amazed with my persistence as well.

I consider myself quiet not a man of many friends though respected. I take great pleasure in helping others, though I certainly don't have an abundance of worldly wealth or security. In that is not my intent to separate apples from apples but to distinguish the difference between apples and oranges.
Did you know its nearly impossible to distinguish tares from wheat until there mature?
Did you know as well that stressing a tree "wind" makes its limbs strong and its roots go deep. If you come to a tree line and remove the border trees the first good wind will fall dozens that never knew it.

Good night and thank you veteran

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear V,

I read through the writings at the link you gave. It definitely seems like the Tabernacle teachers are going off in a New Age direction. It is interesting that they were finding so much acceptance in the Chapel congregation though. I can see some of the stuff they are getting at but it is very fuzzy.

So you are comparing me with them? That is very odd. I think before you go making comparisons you should really take the time to know what you are talking about or don't make them at all. I am not teaching new age philosophy but rather just pointing out that there is a third feast that will have a spiritual fulfillment in the church age.

I think that many Christians are overly gripped by fear of this or that. For people who have the promise of salvation they are sure worried a lot. Some seem to have the ministry of "warning" everyone about everything that they don't think is right whether or not they understand it. At least Rex, my would be disciple, has done due diligence. Here is a clue...we are not hold up in a defensive position...we are more than conquers through Christ Jesus. We don't have to be afraid for the main battle has already been won by Christ and we are assured of victory at this point.

What if Peter would have had a protectionist mentality? What if Paul would have not been as flexible as he proved to be? Really, V, we are not called to be defenders of the faith as much as we are to be heralds of the good news.

 

[veteran]

Dear V,

I read through the writings at the link you gave. It definitely seems like the Tabernacle teachers are going off in a New Age direction. It is interesting that they were finding so much acceptance in the Chapel congregation though. I can see some of the stuff they are getting at but it is very fuzzy.

So you are comparing me with them? That is very odd. I think before you go making comparisons you should really take the time to know what you are talking about or don't make them at all. I am not teaching new age philosophy but rather just pointing out that there is a third feast that will have a spiritual fulfillment in the church age.

I think that many Christians are overly gripped by fear of this or that. For people who have the promise of salvation they are sure worried a lot. Some seem to have the ministry of "warning" everyone about everything that they don't think is right whether or not they understand it. At least Rex, my would be disciple, has done due diligence. Here is a clue...we are not hold up in a defensive position...we are more than conquers through Christ Jesus. We don't have to be afraid for the main battle has already been won by Christ and we are assured of victory at this point.

What if Peter would have had a protectionist mentality? What if Paul would have not been as flexible as he proved to be? Really, V, we are not called to be defenders of the faith as much as we are to be heralds of the good news.

I'm not comparing YOU, I'm comparing what you preach with what they preach. I don't even know if that movement from that link is even still active or not, don't really care either, since these things are just another trap happening in the last days, which gives greater meaning to our Lord's and His Apostle's warnings for us to remain 'sober' and 'watching'.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear V,

Well, my point is that you don't really understand what I am teaching and so saying I am like them is unwarranted. I don't understand why you gravitate towards the "sober" and "watching" thing. When I am in the African bush I know there are hyena's but I am not continually worried about them. I know you are saved but have you experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit? It really helps a lot! When I asked for the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in other tongues it was like God turned on a light in the scriptures and I could see clearly things which were kid of fuzzy to me before.

 

[justaname]

Justin,

What is your eschatological view?

 

[veteran]

Dear V,

Well, my point is that you don't really understand what I am teaching and so saying I am like them is unwarranted. I don't understand why you gravitate towards the "sober" and "watching" thing. When I am in the African bush I know there are hyena's but I am not continually worried about them. I know you are saved but have you experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit? It really helps a lot! When I asked for the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in other tongues it was like God turned on a light in the scriptures and I could see clearly things which were kid of fuzzy to me before.

Based on what you've written about it as per the earlier posts is enough to see a direct association. So I don't know who you're trying to fool, certainly not me, nor Rex either.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

That is ok with me V. Each of us is free to make their own assessment of each other's positions as we feel led.

Usually, in my experience anyway, people either immediately take to my teachings or these precepts just do a fly by and they totally do not get it. This is precisely why I do not wish to deal with "churched" people because they are usually so indoctrinated that it is fairly impossible for them to venture much outside their particular box.

Rex, though, I have high hopes for...grin.

Blessings,

Justin