Ah, wellllllll.... yes, buuuuuuuut.... <smile> Our God is a consuming fire.
Grace and peace to you.
The taken and the left
- Thread starter Matthias
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Can fire burn itself...? <chuckle>
Right, of course not, but nothing in all of creation is going to literally burn up, either. <smile> I think of the "fire," 1stCenturyLady ~ and I say we all should ~ in the sense of God purifying all of creation... making it new... as He says in Revelation 21:5.
Grace and peace to you.
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Shows they were briefly left behind.
Then martyred and in heaven.
They had to wash their dirty foolish virgin robes.
But since your faith is not with the bride, but the arrival of the AC, we are waiting at the same train station.
You await the evil one.
I await Jesus the groom.
You remind me of Peter." I will never deny you".
Did not play out well at all.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Amen.
He is coming and vividly portrayed in Rev 19.
There are 2 resurrections.
The dead in Christ rise BEFORE the living.
You have the dead in Christ RISING AFTER THE LIVING HARVEST of rev 14;14....(which is during the trib.)
That makes what? 5 or 6 IMPOSSIBILITIES of a postrib rapture.
The bible rules.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
I always know that postribber hatred of bible hounds is crouching and ready to strike once the bible gets in the picture.
The hatred is in every single one of you.
Sad.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
When I showed you Jesus interpretation of the tares parable was opposite of your spin, it did concern me somewhat.
I am "afraid" your teachers have duped you.
Yes indeed.
Bible = thread killer.
Lol
Neither God nor Jesus ~ Who says, "in this world you will have tribulation" and "lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age" ~ ever promises to remove Christians from trouble, or tribulation, or trial, but to walk with them... us... through it, to deliver them/us. Over and over again. This is what Noah's flood shows us, this is what the Exodus shows us, and this is what the Gospels, the epistles, and John's Revelation shows us.
Grace and peace to all.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I read this and was going to give you a gold star as not many recognize the "dirty robes" as I have myself, and I was happy to see that you do too! You may have even learned that from me as I have already given by interpretation of Scripture many times on the forums.
But then you kept writing with not only immature fruit but wormy fruit and proved you will be left behind unless you grow more to be conformed into the image of Christ and his love. I read the rest of your numerous posts, and without a shred of evidence of what I know made wild conjectures.
I'm ready, and will be raptured if the rapture is pre-trib. I'm a Philedilphian, and my fruit is mature and I try to help the immature Christians who are full of themselves to ask themselves questions to choose God now, before it is too late. The other three church types must make a choice that they may not be ready for when they get left behind unprotected by God. They must prove their love is for God or just for themselves at which point they will take the mark and will burn in hell. If really for God they will prove themselves by willingly being martyred. Either way it would have been better to be a Philadelphian and obey Christ's last command now and grow up.
If the rapture does happen to be post-trib. I know I will be protected by God if I'm still alive and may even see all the end time traumas, secure in Jesus and alive and remain till I see Him face to face.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
All these promises are for the Philadelphian type Christian. But there are three other types that don't automatically receive the Philadelphian promises you spoke of. Thyatira is even warned if they don't stop giving homage to Jezebel with their idols and rosary to her they will go through great tribulation. Jesus said of Sardis to those at the beginning of the Reformation, "you have a name that you are alive, but you are DEAD." And the lukewarm Laodecians are naked and don't even have a robe to get dirty to wash in Christ's blood.
1stCenturyLady, regarding Revelation 12 ~ specifically verses 13-17, this is what we should "see," along with John:
Having failed to destroy Christ (Revelation 12:4-5), the Dragon (Satan, of course) tries to destroy the people of Christ. He uses his mouth, representing his deceit (Revelation 12:15, 9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10). When deceit fails, he tries persecuting power (Revelation 12:17-13:10). The woman flies to the desert, an image that speaks of the powerful and supernatural care of God active on behalf of his people. No one is "left behind," but His people experience powerful protection even in circumstances where it may seem impossible that they would be delivered:
“For nothing is impossible with God” (Luke 1:37)
"Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life..." (Psalm 23).
By speaking of the desert and the period of three and a half years, Revelation here expands on the earlier summary in verse 6. The protection applies to the entire inter-advent period, the period between Christ's first coming (His life, death, and resurrection) and His second coming (His return). The earth comes to the help of the woman. The very structure of God’s created world restricts and frustrates Satan’s plans. Since Satan cannot wipe out the church as a whole through his deceit, he tries another plan: to war against the rest of her offspring. Revelation 13:1-18 exposes the character of this war, indicating that it involves raising up earthly instruments of persecution. This is what Paul speaks to in Ephesians 6 when he exhorts us to:
"...be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God..."
There is no "rapture" in the sense of what many think it to be. When Jesus comes, He will seize... "harpazo" ...what is His, once and for all, and... after the final Judgment, heaven will come down to us, and all will be made new, as I said. No one will be "left behind," but the wicked, the unrepentant, unbelievers, will depart, at Jesus's command, to... <shudder> Um, well, away from here, away from the One Who is life (Jesus, of course), away from the New Heaven and New Earth.
Hmmmm, yeah, about that... <smile>
The seven churches addressed in the first few chapters of Revelation... As Christians, we can fall into all of those... categories... at any given time during this present age. So in all of these addresses, Christ speaks to us all. Revelation 1:4 is relevant, here, of course; John is addressing all seven churches at once. Christ shows care for the churches by addressing each one according to its needs, with encouragement, rebuke, exhortation, and promise. He shows detailed knowledge of their condition (“I know”). Each of the messages contain allusions to circumstances or traditions of the city, some of which we are doubtless still unaware of. At the same time, all the churches are caught up in a universal calling to faithfulness and endurance until the promises reach their fulfillment in the heavenly Jerusalem. Their struggles contrast with the peace and satisfaction pictured in Revelation 21:1-22:5. The exhortations are reinforced in all but one case (Laodicea) by an opening allusion to some element of the majestic vision of Revelation 1:12-20. The exhortations therefore have universal bearing. Moreover, the churches in view number exactly seven, the symbolic number of completeness. They stand for all the churches of that time and ours. In fact, the triumphs and failures and struggles of these churches are a kind of miniature catalogue of the sorts of things that we can expect to find in other churches throughout history. Yes, some interpreters have (erroneously) assigned the seven churches to seven successive ages of church history in order. But Revelation gives no warrant for this; according to God’s point of view, not all churches are equally healthy. Their faithfulness or laziness or complacency or tolerance of false doctrine are important to Him (of course), and make a difference both in how they should respond and how they are judged. We likewise need Christ-like discernment, illumined by the Spirit and by these examples, if we are to evaluate our own church situation accurately and respond faithfully.
Grace and peace to you.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
The letters to the seven churches are what is called a three-fold prophecy. To those when John was alive it was to those particular churches. And I agree with you that the second fold are people types throughout the New Covenant Church. It is only now that we can look back at church history and see that they are a revelation of the seven church ages in order before the second coming of Christ. To miss this last revelation leaves one in ignorance instead of as Peter said "Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
Do what things? Mature in all the fruit of the Spirit. "For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins."
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
By the way, in Rev. 12:1 who do you see as "the woman" that gives birth to the Child?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Actually it says you will not be protected.
It says power is given the AC over the saints.
It says all take the mark or die.
It says they overcame the AC by the blood of the lamb, and the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death.
All martyred.
So everyone refusing the mark dies and there's no christians "going through" the tribulation
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Great improvement of intelligent conversation.
Since you see me as personally defective and low character, there can only be shall discussion.
You are now conveying " half nastiness", which is a little better than your previous, all out personal assault, which i know is one great banner of the postrib workbook.
Never mind how you see me as irreparably defective.
Stop all that silliness.
Try on bible vs bible.
Concept vs concept.
Take the hate to Jesus. Leave it at the cross.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
QUOTE
"I'm ready, and will be raptured if the rapture is pre-trib. I'm a Philedilphian, and my fruit is mature and I try to help the immature Christians who are full of themselves to ask themselves questions to choose God now, before it is too late."
And this QUOTE;
"Yep! You're shaking in your boots. You're not prepared to loose your head and die for Christ. You'll probably take the mark for sure."
Thanslation:
When rebuilder pushes back against this silly nonsense, you can't take it.
Then pretend the one you target is the instigator.
Oh the irony.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I agree about the three denomination types that still need to "overcome." But the Philadelphians will not have to be martyred, "10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown."
I can see how this looks like there will be in a pre-trib. rapture for them, and I am open to that interpretation. But it could also be a natural death, instead of martyrdom by beheading. When looking at the whole picture, that is seven years before the actual second coming of Jesus to the earth, and unfortunately there are no Scriptures that actually explains the difference in the same passage. There is always a problem with the interpretation of stand alone verses that people use to base their belief on, because there is another verse that contradicts whatever view is being paraded as their proof text. Dissing people and saying, "we are looking for the Antichrist, not Christ, that is foolish to diss. Jesus says to do so, you shall be in danger of hell fire. That is why I am not dogmatic in any one of the verses regarding pre-trib., post-trib., post-wrath, or even post-Millennium. But I do recognize one at the second coming, but of martyrs only, and one after the Millennium of everyone else. The one before is only martyrs for Christ and is called the first resurrection, so there went the pre-trib. theory; that could be from only the GT, or for the past 2,000 years (not clear). There may be a verse that sounds like the second coming comes at a time of peace and safety, where they are eating and drinking without a care in the world in the gospels, but you then have to wonder how they missed the world being in a state of pure chaos as Revelation shows the horrors right before the second coming.
The point is, there is no passage that explains them both in the same passage, clearly defining there are two times of resurrection of the dead before Christ comes, except in Revelation that shows only martyrs will be resurrected and rules and reigns with Christ for the thousand years, and then after that, it is called the second resurrection, not third or fourth when everyone else, good or bad will be resurrected, and all that will save them is if their name is written in the Book of Life. Therefore, accordingly not all Christians will see the leadership of Christ in His 1,000 year reign on earth. But doesn't every eye see Him? You can have your dog fight, but I just preach be ready for anything, including dying for Christ. As for us "ruling and reigning" with Christ for those thousand years, that would be a billion or more rulers, but Scripture says there are only 24 thrones, and Paul says there will be 12 thrones for the Apostles to judge the tribes of Israel, not for every Christian.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
It was done out of love. Have fun with your passages out of context of the whole. But NO DISSING YOUR BRETHREN about any of this out of malice and rotten fruit. Jesus dissed the Pharisees, but it was for them to look at themselves - for their own good, and He did win some over. Jesus also said, calling your brethren a fool you shall be in danger of hell fire.
Hmm, well it is layered, as much of prophecy throughout the Bible is. But I'm not sure we... understand that in the same way. <smile> I think probably not, but maybe... <smile>
Sure, but not really to just those particular churches. In the same way as, oh, when Jesus spoke to His disciples, generally speaking what He said to them was just as relevant to us today.
Hmmm, "second fold"... But okay, good...
Hmmm, "in order..." DIsagree. As I said above, the churches in Revelation 2 and 3 number exactly seven, the symbolic number of completeness (which is a great theme of John's Revelation, applying in several ways), and thus stand for all the churches of that time and ours (and at all times in between). The triumphs and failures and struggles of these churches are what we find in other churches throughout history. And so, as Christians, we ~ and any one church body ~ can fall into all of those... categories... at any given time during this present age. So yes, this was true at the time John received and related his revelation to us, and today, and at any time in between. To be very succinct, I would just point out what John says at the outset of the book, particularly Revelation 1:3... There is no specific time frame in view; it is for all: "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near."
<chuckles> Scripture is not dispensational. To be very succinct (again), God's Word is not... cannot be... divided up into, oh, eras, or distinct time periods. And that's true of God Himself; He is the great I AM, and, well, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
You know, as I was writing my last post, I just knew you were going to ask me about that... <chuckles>
Revelation 12 begins the third cycle of judgments, which... well, you may not understand what I mean by that... The first cycle runs from Revelation 6:1-8:1, and the second runs from Revelation 8:2 through Revelation 11. There are seven cycles, by the way, and this is very related to what I said above regarding the seven churches of Revelation 2-3. Like the churches, the cycles are not sequential, but concurrent. So, to answer your question here... <smile> ...this is what I would say:
This third cycle depicts in depth the nature of the great spiritual conflict. Characters appear in symbolic form to represent the forces on the two sides of a cosmic spiritual war. God himself has already been revealed in Revelation 4:1-5:14. Here, opposing God, are Satan (the Dragon) and his "agents," the Beast (Revelation 13:1-10) and the False Prophet (Revelation 13:11-18; see 16:13). On God’s side are His people, portrayed as a light-bearing woman (Revelation 12:1-6, 13-17).
Mary is also in view here, particularly in verse 5, where "(t)he woman (gives) birth to a son," in fulfillment of Micah 5:3. Christ is born, and his triumphant rule over the nations is certain to be established (I think you might agree on that, but I'm not sure...). This is parallel to Revelation 20:1-3... "Then I saw an Angel coming down from heaven, holding in His hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended."
So... again, Mary (the mother of Jesus, of course) is included in this group, but as an outstanding member of the whole. The later history shows that the New Testament saints also are included (Revelation 12:13-17). The light-bearing character of the woman foreshadows the glory of the new Jerusalem (Revelation 21:11, 22-27). She has her citizenship in heaven (Philippians 3:20). As such, Christ's church ~ all we who are in Christ ~ even in this present time of tribulation, now already partake in the blessings of what is to come.
<smile>
Grace and peace to you, 1stCenturyLady.
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