The taken and the left

[Brakelite]

In 1976 I received the Lord as my Saviour. I visited a few churches before settling for a vibrant young AOG church in the city. This was not my hometown. I had transferred there 12 months previously from across the other side on the country. This was well before cell phones texts, the only means of communication being either phone or snail mail. I didn't have a phone. And I didn't write often, so lost touch with all former friends except for my mum. I was 23 at the time.
A friend who witnessed to me a month previous to my conversion, came up to me one day, apologising for her forwardness, and stated she believed God was telling her to tell me that i was to go back home in order to witness to my new found faith. I replied somewhat dubiously, but promised to pray about it, which I did, asking God for confirmation from another source. A week later the church was holding an evangelistic series, with meetings running every night for the week. Being a new Christian I revelled in those meetings and my faith deepened.
On the last night, the visiting preacher was about to begin his address, and paused, saying he believed there was someone in the congregation (of 350odd, so there may be several he was referring to) that were living away from home, had recently received Christ, and God was calling them home. I was seriously convicted that I was being singled out. This was a Sunday night. That evening at home I wrote a resignation letter for my work, effective the following Thursday, with Good Friday following with Easter weekend. I then informed the pastor who had some very serious doubts about a brand new Christian being called away so soon. I remained utterly convinced. My prayers included a request for work of course. I was fully convinced that if God was doing the sending, He would also do the providing. I even had a specific job in mind, at a specific place. The same place where I had previously worked 13 months previously, but a different job. I had told no-one I was leaving except for a very few, and no one I was coming.
I arrived at my mother's doorstep in the evening of Good Friday. She was elated to see me, but horrified I had resigned from a very good job on the whim of what she later described as a cult. Even more horrified that I needed a place to stay. She was a widow, enjoying her solitude, in a small flat. She did not believe my assertions that God would supply a job. I checked the local paper for situations vacant the next day, Saturday. The exact job I asked for was advertised. The next working day was Tuesday, and I rocked up to the establishment that morning to announce my homecoming as my fiormer boss was leaving. We chatted briefly, me explaining why I was there and he asked me when I would like to start. I started the next day. Mum didn't know what to think.
God has never let me down since. Miracle? Intervention? I don't care what you call it. God was faithful.

 

[PinSeeker]

What do you think happened to the brass screw?

No telling, but probably a very ordinary explanation.

There are all kinds of miracles…

Hmmm, well I agree, but would say rather that things that seem miraculous to us… <smile> …happen.

…I never put God in a small box like cessationism demands.

<chuckles> Yeah, God certainly can’t be put in any kind of box… <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

In 1976 I received the Lord as my Saviour. I visited a few churches before settling for a vibrant young AOG church in the city. This was not my hometown. I had transferred there 12 months previously from across the other side on the country. This was well before cell phones texts, the only means of communication being either phone or snail mail. I didn't have a phone. And I didn't write often, so lost touch with all former friends except for my mum. I was 23 at the time.
A friend who witnessed to me a month previous to my conversion, came up to me one day, apologising for her forwardness, and stated she believed God was telling her to tell me that i was to go back home in order to witness to my new found faith. I replied somewhat dubiously, but promised to pray about it, which I did, asking God for confirmation from another source. A week later the church was holding an evangelistic series, with meetings running every night for the week. Being a new Christian I revelled in those meetings and my faith deepened.
On the last night, the visiting preacher was about to begin his address, and paused, saying he believed there was someone in the congregation (of 350odd, so there may be several he was referring to) that were living away from home, had recently received Christ, and God was calling them home. I was seriously convicted that I was being singled out. This was a Sunday night. That evening at home I wrote a resignation letter for my work, effective the following Thursday, with Good Friday following with Easter weekend. I then informed the pastor who had some very serious doubts about a brand new Christian being called away so soon. I remained utterly convinced. My prayers included a request for work of course. I was fully convinced that if God was doing the sending, He would also do the providing. I even had a specific job in mind, at a specific place. The same place where I had previously worked 13 months previously, but a different job. I had told no-one I was leaving except for a very few, and no one I was coming.
I arrived at my mother's doorstep in the evening of Good Friday. She was elated to see me, but horrified I had resigned from a very good job on the whim of what she later described as a cult. Even more horrified that I needed a place to stay. She was a widow, enjoying her solitude, in a small flat. She did not believe my assertions that God would supply a job. I checked the local paper for situations vacant the next day, Saturday. The exact job I asked for was advertised. The next working day was Tuesday, and I rocked up to the establishment that morning to announce my homecoming as my fiormer boss was leaving. We chatted briefly, me explaining why I was there and he asked me when I would like to start. I started the next day. Mum didn't know what to think.
God has never let me down since. Miracle? Intervention? I don't care what you call it. God was faithful.

Providence, certainly. The Lord ~ Jehovah Jireh ~ provides for His people.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

What do you think happened to the brass screw? God had told me twice where the ring would be and those drawers were across the room from where I had laid the ring. Also, it was 15 months before I moved, and it was on that day I found it, exactly as God had told me, and the brass screw had disappeared. No one else knew about it. I don't speak Spanish so Maria didn't know, only that it was still lost, that's all. There are all kinds of miracles, but I never put God in a small box like cessationism demands.

Well, God gives gifts and they are to be used for His Glory and for the edification of the Body of Christ.

Since you have a gift from the LORD you can pray this for myself = which is for my family

We have items that we need to sell to pay off some bills.
These items are priced to sell and yet there has been little interest.
Lift UP prayer for God to send buyers as the money is needed to pay bills.

Thank You

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Well, God gives gifts and they are to be used for His Glory and for the edification of the Body of Christ.

Since you have a gift from the LORD you can pray this for myself = which is for my family

We have items that we need to sell to pay off some bills.
These items are priced to sell and yet there has been little interest.
Lift UP prayer for God to send buyers as the money is needed to pay bills.

Thank You

David, I will be listening for God's voice (His will) how He wants to provide for your present need. I will let you know if He speaks to me and not you and what His will is. But then you must agree and put your faith in what He says. Supernatural faith, which is different from our measure of faith to accept Jesus, is a supernatural gift in 1 Cor. 12: given to us from rhemas, instead of the logos. A rhema is a specific spoken word from God to us personally. This kind of "word" is different than the logos. Greek has two words for our one word, "word" (logos and rhema). This gift of supernatural faith is the type of faith in Romans 10:17, "(Supernatural) faith comes by hearing (so listen as I do constantly!) and hearing by the word (rhema) of God.

As you read the Bible through, as we all should be doing, a passage will seem to jump off the page at you and give you goose bumps. That is a rhema and you receive a gift of faith and be in awe that God just spoke to you. Rhemas like that when reading the logos (the whole word) can also be given to correct your doctrine. God spoke to me back in 2000 while I was driving alone in the desert of Arizona and said He was giving me the office of Teacher. Since that time God has corrected my doctrine many times because I am to teach only what He's taught me. Sometimes it causes a vision of what really happened. Like the thief on the cross which many pastors teach was not baptized (though it doesn't say that). The truth as God has shown me is he used to be a thief, but became a Christian knowing the truth about Christ's kingdom, that it was spiritual and had nothing to do with overthrowing Rome, had repented and was already baptized.

 

[doctrox]

The "ones taken" in the Greek is translated "taken to a good place"

This falsehood is without scriptural support; it's recklessness born of a searing of the conscience and it compromises everything that follows it.

From the OP:

Who did God leave and who did God take?

God left righteous Noah and his family on the earth and took away the wicked from the earth.

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!

Yes, this is the resurrection to eternal life. But there will also be those resurrected to judgment, as Jesus says in John 5:28-29

If you want the answer to the "rapture" question, simply study the RESURRECTION.

The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain preconceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be “gathered” at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn’t in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn’t even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God The Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says “He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 6:24, 28, 29) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those “that have done good,” and a resurrection for those “that have done evil.”

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall “be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.” (Luke 14:14) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, “that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” (Acts 24:15) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to “the first resurrection.” (Rev. 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says “the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Rev. 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, “when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged...” (Rev. 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are two resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall “reign with him a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:6)

 

[David in NJ]

This falsehood is without scriptural support; it's recklessness born of a searing of the conscience and it compromises everything that follows it.

From the OP:

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!


If you want the answer to the "rapture" question, simply study the RESURRECTION.

The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain preconceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be “gathered” at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn’t in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn’t even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God The Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says “He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 6:24, 28, 29) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those “that have done good,” and a resurrection for those “that have done evil.”

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall “be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.” (Luke 14:14) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, “that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” (Ezekiel 33:8, 4) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to “the first resurrection.” (Rev. 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says “the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Rev. 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, “when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged...” (Rev. 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are two resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall “reign with him a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:6)

@rebuilder 454

There are THREE MAIN lies spoken against the Prophecy of the LORD Jesus Christ.

The LORD Says HE is Coming AFTER the Tribulation
pre-trib rapture directly speaks against the LORD's Prophecy given in the Gospel

The LORD Promised that HE will never leave nor forsake us.
pre-trib directly speaks against the Promise/Prophecy of CHRIST with the threat of being "left-behind"

All who are in CHRIST are God's Elect
pre-trib directly speaks against this by saying the 'elect' are the Jewish people and not the Church of CHRIST

And there are many more lies that come out of the mouth of pre-trib rapture

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The "ones taken" in the Greek is translated "taken to a good place"

If you like being eaten by eagles, then I guess its a good place for you, but I'd rather be left with Jesus through the Millennium.

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Well, God gives gifts and they are to be used for His Glory and for the edification of the Body of Christ.

Since you have a gift from the LORD you can pray this for myself = which is for my family

We have items that we need to sell to pay off some bills.
These items are priced to sell and yet there has been little interest.
Lift UP prayer for God to send buyers as the money is needed to pay bills.

Thank You

David, has He spoken to you? I haven't heard a word about it, but will keep listening.

 

[amigo de christo]

I've had two that matched the water into wine. A creation type miracle.

kinda like when pharoahs magiciains could also turn water into blood .
OH YES dear dear sister , there are such that can perform certain miracles
and yet by such things ONLY DECIEVE the people .
In fact
IT was by the means of those miracles he had decieved them .
Oh yes . Many lack serious knowledge of the scriptures , for they lack knowledge of HE who did inspire them .
But let us look again at deuteronmy as well .
Many are very familiar with chapter eighteen which says IF the sign or wonder that the prophet has said
DOES NOT come to pass , IT is a false one .
BUT GUESS what many are not aware of
DUET chapter thirteen , nor apparently revelation either .
IF a prophet arises and shows signs , and dreams and visions
And EVEN IF IT DO come to pass , YE shall not follow that prophet that came to seduce you to other gods .
I THE LORD do TEST YOU to see IF YOU LOVE ME .
OH yeah . nor do many realize
IF the prophet has BEEN decieved , I THE LORD GOD have DECIEVED it .
I WILL ANSWER it according to THE IDOLS of its heart .
We better all beware that all inclusive ecumiencal whore and her inclusive love
and interfaith in tererligous dialgoue . And many now do her bidding . OH YES sister , i say again
AND that even many IN WOOL now do her bidding .

 

[rebuilder 454]

If you like being eaten by eagles, then I guess its a good place for you, but I'd rather be left with Jesus through the Millennium.

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

As if Jesus never used symbolizm

 

[rebuilder 454]

As if Jesus never used symbolizm

The postribber model can never work.
1) in the "one taken" in mat 24, they need it to be half the world's population is taken, but the believers ( the other 50% ),stay behind BEFORE THE FLOOD.
(A PRETRIB RAPTURE OF UNBELIEVERS.)



SMH

 

[rebuilder 454]

This falsehood is without scriptural support; it's recklessness born of a searing of the conscience and it compromises everything that follows it.

From the OP:

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!


If you want the answer to the "rapture" question, simply study the RESURRECTION.

The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain preconceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be “gathered” at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn’t in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn’t even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God The Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says “He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 6:24, 28, 29) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those “that have done good,” and a resurrection for those “that have done evil.”

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall “be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.” (Luke 14:14) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, “that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” (Acts 24:15) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to “the first resurrection.” (Rev. 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says “the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Rev. 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, “when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged...” (Rev. 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are two resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall “reign with him a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:6)

rebuilder 454 said:
The "ones taken" in the Greek is translated "taken to a good place"

Your reckless respose;
"This falsehood is without scriptural support; it's recklessness born of a searing of the conscience and it compromises everything that follows it."

Investigation is an obvious enemy to you.
Let me do your homework for you.
Mat 24 "taken" in the Greek
paralambanetai
G3880 (strongs reference)
IS-beING-BESIDE-GOTTEN.
paralambanō


1) to take to, to take with one' s self, to join to one' s self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaphorically

1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience

2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers (used of disciples)

Let me also help you on the word "took" (as in wicked destroyed in the flood)
(That is strongs reference g142)

"To take from among the living, either by a natural death, John 17:15 (ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου take away from contact with the world), or by violence, Matthew 24:39; Luke 23:18; John 19:15; Acts 21:36; with the addition of ἀπό τῆς γῆς, Acts 22:22; αἴρεται ἀπό τῆς γῆς ἡ ζῶν αὐτοῦ, of a bloody death inflicted upon one, Acts 8:33 (Isaiah 53:8).
i. of things; to take out of the way, destroy: χειρόγραφον, Colossians 2:14; cause to cease: τήν κρίσιν, Acts 8:33 (Isaiah 53:8).

You were sayin????

Interesting the Holy Spirit used 2 different words, authenticating meaning.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This falsehood is without scriptural support; it's recklessness born of a searing of the conscience and it compromises everything that follows it.

From the OP:

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!


If you want the answer to the "rapture" question, simply study the RESURRECTION.

The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain preconceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be “gathered” at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn’t in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn’t even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God The Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says “He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 6:24, 28, 29) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those “that have done good,” and a resurrection for those “that have done evil.”

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall “be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.” (Luke 14:14) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, “that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” (Acts 24:15) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to “the first resurrection.” (Rev. 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says “the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Rev. 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, “when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged...” (Rev. 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are two resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall “reign with him a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:6)

QUOTE
"Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!"

Always keep in mind postrib teachers are the worst at simply reading what is there.
That starting place is absolutely horrible.
Let's see what it really says.
Mat 24...the pure unmolested Word;
"37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

1) Before the flood....(pretrib.)
2) normal life, everyday life, buying and selling, planning for the future, and commerce.( pretrib setting)
3) judgement suddenly in the pretrib setting (before the flood) ( pretrib)
4) in the same pretrib( preflood) setting, half of some group are taken and half left behind.
What group?...it CANNOT be the world's population! ( half saved will NEVER HAPPEN)
5) in this preflood setting, Jesus tells HIS FOLLOWERS, to watch and be ready.

Postribber spin is EXACTLY OPPOSITE Jesus words.( EVERY SINGLE POINT IS OPPOSITE)
In fact, you guys can not possibly get anything out of that to support your own doctrine.
There is ZERO SUPPORTING a pretrib wicked people rapture that postribbers are selling. ( How bizarre is that?)
Huh?? A pretrib wicked rapture?????

Also there is Zero, supporting every human on the planet killed, in any doctrine.

Zero supporting half the world is righteous, and half wicked.
Then, postrib doctrine has wicked people warned they are removed pretrib.
("41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.")

Absolutely none of that fits postrib rapture.
....nor does spinning scripture line up with the bible.
Always present the pure word and don't be pulled in by false postrib teachers.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This falsehood is without scriptural support; it's recklessness born of a searing of the conscience and it compromises everything that follows it.

From the OP:

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!


If you want the answer to the "rapture" question, simply study the RESURRECTION.

The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain preconceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be “gathered” at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn’t in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn’t even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God The Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says “He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 6:24, 28, 29) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those “that have done good,” and a resurrection for those “that have done evil.”

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall “be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.” (Luke 14:14) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, “that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” (Acts 24:15) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to “the first resurrection.” (Rev. 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says “the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Rev. 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, “when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged...” (Rev. 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are two resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall “reign with him a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:6)

The ones left behind are in a pretrib setting.
So yes, if you are praying to be left behind pretrib?....well that won't be good at all.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

As if Jesus never used symbolizm

Of course, but it is still saying TOOK/TAKEN is bad. Do you think they willingly walk into the lake of fire? No! They are taken there by force!

 

[PinSeeker]

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to “the first resurrection.” (Rev. 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says “the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Rev. 20:5)

Hmmm... The first resurrection is Jesus's, of course, now over 2000 years in the past. Christians come to "share in that resurrection" (Revelation 20:5), each at his own appointed time in his or her life... this is when we, individually, are born again and "made alive together with Christ⁠ ~ by grace, saved⁠ ~ and raised up with Christ and seated with Christ in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus," as Paul says in Ephesians 2:5-6. This resurrection in Christ is only for believers (NOTE: we are not born again because we believe; we believe because we are born again).

By the way, regarding that "until the thousand years were finished" should be understood ~ rather than "all the rest of the dead in their entirety were raised at the end of the thousand years" ~ as the rest coming to life individually over the course of the thousand years, and then, yes, at the end of the thousand years all of them having been raised... in Christ, as per above. You may not accept this, and that's fair enough, but one does have to admit, at least, that the latter is a valid way of "seeing" it (as John did). Both "ways" are valid ways of reading it, but only one is accurate. <smile>

The same kind of thing is true with the "reigning with Him a thousand years" in verse 6... none of them for the entirety, or from the very beginning to the end of, the thousand years, but all of them over the course of the thousand years... in the sense of this is what is ~ is ~ happening over the course of the thousand years. Again, one does have to admit, at least, that this is a valid way of "seeing" it (as John did). Here again, both "ways" are valid ways of reading it, but only one is accurate. <smile> It is synonymous with what Paul says in Romans 11:25-26, that "a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in... (a)nd in this way all Israel will be saved..."

Later in the chapter John says, “when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged...” (Rev. 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are two resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

This is a conflation of two things. Regarding believers and unbelievers, that physical resurrection will be for all people upon Jesus's return and the final defeat of Satan. And the two will not be separated by any significant amount of time... although it will be for those who are in Christ first, and then for those not. But Jesus Himself says ~ in John 5:28-29 ~ "an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." That will be the one general "second resurrection" of Revelation 20, but with two different outcomes, or, to put it another way, what some are resurrected to (eternal life) and others resurrected to... something else very different (judgment).

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years...

No, see above. And "the thousand years" is not a literal one thousand 365-day periods... period... <smile> ...but a fullness, or a completeness, of time that God takes in building His Israel... so really a period of unknown length to anyone other than God Himself. 'Thousand' is used that way throughout the Bible. This is ~ is, as we are in the midst of it now ~ God's millennium.

Grace and peace to you, doctrox.

 

[PinSeeker]

Do you think they willingly walk into the lake of fire? No!

Ahhh, well, not really willingly, but obediently... per Jesus's command. He will tell them, "Depart from Me, for I never knew you..." They will be able to do no other. <shudder>

They are taken there by force!

Weeeeeeeeeellllllllllll, sorrrrrtaaaaaaa... <smile> It's not like they will be able to fight against Jesus's word and God's final judgment... <shudder>

Grace and peace to you, 1CL.