The temptations those not of the 144,000 will face during the Tribulation, very soon

[holyisthelord]

There is no pre-Tribulation rapture. There is a mid-Tribulation rapture of the 144,000 virgin Christians ("real Jews" are the ones with "circumcised hearts [Romans 2:28]) who will witness in pairs in the great cities of the world, be killed/beheaded, be resurrected after 3 days, & ascend into Heaven, according to Revelation 11 (see link above for more on this). Then there is a post-Tribulation rapture of other Christians soon before Christ & the Church destroys the Antichrist & his armies.What the "Laodicean" ("people is judged," representing our Church age and a portion of the seven churches of Rev. 2-3 which comprise all professing Christians in any age including John's) "lukewarm" Christians of Rev. 3:15 who are not virgins will have to face:-Rev. 8: hunger due to many animals dying on land (b/c of lack of grass) & sea; water which tastes like wormwood -Rev. 9: tormented for 5 months and you "will seek death but not be able to find it", 1/3 of the Earth's people will die around you-Rev. 12: in the "wilderness" for the 3 1/2 years following the 3 1/2 years ministry of the sets of 2 witnesses amounting to 144,000 total; to get a good picture of the hunger & thirst you will experience there, see Exodus 16-17, Matthew 3 (John eating locusts & honey only in the wilderness) & 4 (Jesus' temptation by the Devil in the wilderness); Zechariah 13:8 indicates that 2/3 of these "Christians" will fall and end up in Hell, as is foreshadowed by the creation of the golden calf in Exodus 32.-Rev. 9, Job 1, Lamentations: loss of loved ones-beasts attacking man, including birds, dogs, & locusts/lice entering your house: Ezekiel 5:17 & 14:15, Rev. 9, Exodus plagues in Egypt, Jeremiah-lack of warmth: Haggai 1, Rev. 8 where 1/3 of sun is smitten-crying "without intermission": Lamentations 1 & 3The plagues of Revelation 16 are for Antichrist worshippers only, fortunately. Purpose of Tribulation for people who will be saved: to produce "fruits of righteousness" by getting a taste of Hell (see Hebrews 12, Malachi 3), for "fear of the LORD causes a man to depart from evil." (Proverbs 16) "Those whom I love, I discipline." (Hebrews 12, Revelation 3)Signs that the Great Tribulation (World War III) & Jesus' Second Coming will come "upon the whole habitable Earth" during Obama's presidency: 1) phony Christs, 2) resurrection of Israeli state in 1947/48, 3) Obama, 4) 9/11 often mentioned in the Bible in connection with "the dreadful day of the LORD", 5) the European Union (originated in 1948)'s connections with the Roman Empire: (see http://www.primaryproofsofchristianity.com/signs.html for discussion of the other signs listed here) "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many [including everyone in Part Three during at least some of their lives, unless they repent[ed] as Paul, a former type of the Antichrist, did] there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matt. 7:13-15)"If any man worship [love] the beast [the Antichrist] and his image [foreshadowed by many t.v./movie/music/video game stars worshipped worldwide], and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:9-11)please see my next post for more on how the Bible directs us to live so as to avoid Hell & gain eternal happiness...

 

[holyisthelord]

"Unless you abandon all your possessions, you cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:33): Those possessions are distractions from the far more satisfying (provided you "pray without ceasing" [1 Thess. 5:18] to God for understanding, seeing Him as the source of every good, since "the natural man cannot understanding the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him" [1 Corinthians 2:14]) Holy Bible and doing good works for the glory of God. The Bible is an inexhaustible treasure, so don't think that reading it once is enough."Ho [like Santa the impostor], every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread [all the books/music/movies etc. of Part Three]? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David." (Isaiah 55:1-3)"The greatest commandment: love God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, and all your strength!!!" (Matt. 22:36-40) "Rejoice in the Lord [not in the television, books which don't bring us to glorify God, etc.] always!!! I say rejoice!!!" (Phillippians 4:4) "Happy is the man...his delight is in the teaching of the Lord & he meditates on it [not on the television] day & night." (Psalm 1)"Do not love the world (Gk. "kosmos" can mean the way things are ordered or governed, and the things of this world are governed by Satan [1 John 5:19]; thus, God means here to not love the things which come from Satan rather than God) or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Because all that which is in the world is the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, & the boasting of life. It is not of the Father, but is of the world." (1 John 2:15-16)"Unless you repent ("get a new mind" or be born again), you will perish." (Luke 13:3)

 

[Jordan]

Every single people, Both believers and unbelievers will go through the Tribulation. Why? Cause Christ said so. John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.There is no Pre-Tribulation at all. There is no Mid-Tribulation Rapture in God Words either. In fact there is no Rapture in God's Words. Period.

 

[holyisthelord]

I called the taking up of the 144,000 into Heaven in Rev. 11 a "rapture" because "rapture" means "to take." For the same reason, I gave the name "rapture" to the taking up of the purified survivor Christians right after the 7-year Tribulation ends & soon before the Antichrist & his armies are destroyed, as described in 1 Thessalonians 4, Revelation 19, & Revelation 7 which appears between the 6th (post-Tribulation) & 7th seal (the last one).The 144,000 will have "tribulation" but not "trial/testing" (Rev. 3:10) for they will all testify and end up in Heaven. They will have less physical pain than the others according to Rev. 7-9, but they will certainly have great mental suffering due to all the insults they will constantly experience while witnessing to many many people.

 

[Jordan]

QUOTE (holyisthelord;67527)
I called the taking up of the 144,000 into Heaven in Rev. 11 a "rapture" because "rapture" means "to take." For the same reason, I gave the name "rapture" to the taking up of the purified survivor Christians right after the 7-year Tribulation ends & soon before the Antichrist & his armies are destroyed, as described in 1 Thessalonians 4, Revelation 19, & Revelation 7 which appears between the 6th (post-Tribulation) & 7th seal (the last one).The 144,000 will have "tribulation" but not "trial/testing" (Rev. 3:10) for they will all testify and end up in Heaven. They will have less physical pain than the others according to Rev. 7-9, but they will certainly have great mental suffering due to all the insults they will constantly experience while witnessing to many many people.
The whole world is going through the tribulation.Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.Mark 13:22 - For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.Matthew 24:22 - And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[Christina]

(holyisthelord;67527)
I called the taking up of the 144,000 into Heaven in Rev. 11 a "rapture" because "rapture" means "to take." For the same reason, I gave the name "rapture" to the taking up of the purified survivor Christians right after the 7-year Tribulation ends & soon before the Antichrist & his armies are destroyed, as described in 1 Thessalonians 4, Revelation 19, & Revelation 7 which appears between the 6th (post-Tribulation) & 7th seal (the last one).The 144,000 will have "tribulation" but not "trial/testing" (Rev. 3:10) for they will all testify and end up in Heaven. They will have less physical pain than the others according to Rev. 7-9, but they will certainly have great mental suffering due to all the insults they will constantly experience while witnessing to many many people.
Baloney ...............................

 

[precepts]

I wonder if there's such a thing as christian propaganda (views w/o merit), and how would it affect christianity? Would it be called heresy, no, no..no..no, no! God's word, no, no..no..no, no! False teachings/itchy ears etc.., yeah, yeah..yeah..yeah, yeah!

 

[holyisthelord]

are you accusing me of Christian propaganda, friend? Kindly tell me what you disagree with instead of unkindly vilifying me, I pray you.God bless,George

 

[precepts]

holy's
are you accusing me of Christian propaganda, friend?
Yes, you and everybody else. Why not apply for the Noble Peace Prize with your religious breakthrough.

 

[Jordan]

Gee, you sit there in judgment on everybody. Let God be the Judge. Judge the doctrine, not the sinner. You accuse everybody and you're right? Says who? Men or God...?

 

[Christina]

Holyisthelord if your scenrio was true whats the point of the 144.000 ??? where is your documentation. ?Where you go wrong is you tell us your interptation then throw out some scripture you think proves it ...give us the scripture tell us what you think its saying otherwise we can not discuss anything all we are getting is your words ..not GodsThis is not how to interpt or share scripture all we have is your words ..anyone can make scripture say anything taken out of context ... You cant just make these interptations say Im right ...If you are so right show it in the scripture first then show how you came up with this if you cant start doing so .... then you are just posting your own doctrine ... And that is not what this site is we study scripture not your interptation of scripture. This does not mean your interpitations are wrong or right but we need to see the scriptures and the process of thought that brings you to a conclusion We cant not just accept your conclusion as fact because you say so...

 

[holyisthelord]

The Two Witnesses of Rev. 11=144,000 Christians who will witness in pairs Rev. 1:26: "the seven lampstands are the seven churches" ANDRev. 2-3: Smyrna & Philadelphia ("brotherly love") are the only two of the seven churches (which represents all people professing to be Christians today, throughout history, and in John's day) not rebuked by Jesus in Revelation 2-3 and threatened to all be "cast" into terrible "Tribulation" ANDRomans 11:17: the Gentiles are called an "olive tree" ANDLuke 10:1: "The Lord sent them [seventy disciples] out two and two [to witness the Gospel] before his face into every city and place, whither He Himself would come [foreshadowing of events preceding Jesus' Second Coming]." BUTRev. 11:4: the "two witnesses" are "the two lampstands" & "the two olive trees" which represent God the Father & God the SonTHEREFORE the Two Witnesses of Rev. 11 are Christians who will witness in pairs in many cities Furthermore, many facts show that the 144,000=the sets of Two Witnesses.* For instance, consider -that the 144,000 are called "the firstfruits" (Rev. 14:4) as Christ is called "the firstfruit of those fallen asleep" in reference to his rising from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:20) along with the fact that the people martyred (including the witnesses) and ONLY the people martyred are said in Revelation 20 to partake of the "FIRST resurrection."-that the 144,000 are pictured in Heaven in Revelation 14 & 15 BEFORE the rest of the Christians arrive, for during this time the Christians are in the "wilderness" (Revelation 12, Exodus 16-17, Matthew 3 & 4) hungering & thirsting in order to undergo purification from sin & thereby be made pleasing to God's taste after He had spit them out (Rev. 3:16)-the wall of the New Jerusalem is "144 cubits, a MAN's measure, that is, an ANGEL's" (Rev. 21:17); this verse echoes the "measuring" of the "temple" and of the "altar and them that sacrifice in it" in Rev. 11:1 in the chapter about the two witnesses, for true Christians like the 144000 martyrs are "the temple of the Holy Spirit" (1 Corinithians 3) and the 144K are pictured worshipping under an "altar" in Rev. 6. *Exodus 4-10 (Moses & Aaron causing plagues) & Rev. 11:6 ("they smite the Earth with PLAGUES as often as they will") suggest that the 144000 witnesses are actually the agents through which the seven trumpet judgments of Rev. 8-9 take place! This hypothesis is confirmed by the facts that the ANGELS are said to perform the plagues.the 144,000 who are sealed in Revelation 7 are "spiritual Israel," not ethnic Jews (at least not altogether), who are said by Jesus to be of the "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2,3 in the passages about the two churches of Smyrna & Philadelphia which will have members witnessing in pairs):-"The real Jew" is the person who is "circumcised in the heart" (Romans 2:28) -Christians are children of "the heavenly Jerusalem" (Galatians 4), which represents the "city" (association) of true Christians. -Israel means "has prevailed with God" [in gaining the "blessing" of eternal life which Jacob/Israel strove with Jesus "the angel of the LORD" for in Genesis 32] -"Jew" means of the tribe of Judah, which is only one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Ten of the twelve tribes were scattered throughout the whole Earth by Assyria in the 8th century BC in accordance with prophecy as early as Deuteronomy 28. Britain & the USA originated from Ephraim and Manasseh respectively: http://britam.org/great.html , http://www.britam.org/USAManasseh.htmlThese two witnesses will be witnessing about Jesus in all "the great cities" (Rev. 11:8)- i.e. the Babylons "the great city" (Rev. 17:18)- of the Earth, including Rome, New York City, Hollywood Babylon, Paris Babylon, San Francisco ("Babylon by the Bay"), etc. They will have miraculous powers like Moses & Aaron to testify to their truth! They will be resurrected to show the whole world that Jesus really rose from the dead! Many cities including Paris currently or in the past have fit the description of Mystery Babylon, including Paris which was the capital of Napoleon Empire & was thereby a foreshadowing of "the great city which rules over the kings of the Earth." (Rev. 17:18) This site discusses the many Babylons throughout world history: http://primaryproofsofchristianity.com/bible.htmlThe Bible indicates there are many Babylons by applying the language of Rev. 17-18 to many cities in the Bible, including Jerusalem (Deut. 4:6, Lam 1:1), Nineveh "the great city" (Jonah 1, Zeph. 2:15), Babylon, Tyrus/Tyre (Ezekiel 26-27), etc.Only these people (who are equal to the 144,000) will be sealed so that they won't be harmed by the locusts (Rev. 7,9) and won't suffer in the wilderness of famine and thirst (Rev. 12) like the Jews & Jesus did (Exodus 16-17, Matt. 4). "Pray at all times that you may be worthy to escape these things" (Luke 21) that "are about to come upon the whole habitable Earth" (Rev. 3:10), which you can only do if you "keep My Word of endurance" (Rev. 3:10) by meditating on God's holy Bible "day and night" (Psalm 1).They will have the spirit of Elijah as John the Baptist was said to have had by Jesus, who even equated John with Elijah (Matthew 11).* That is the meaning the last sentence of the Old Testament in Malachi 4 that "I will send Elijah before the great & terrible day of the LORD."As there are types of Christ & the Antichrist, so there are Types (foreshadowings) of the two witnesses (144,000=12x12,000) who all symbolize God the Father & Jesus having the same divine nature:-Moses who is "like God" to Aaron & Aaron his "prophet"-Elijah "the lord" & Elisha-Zerubbabel the governor & Joshua the priest-Paul & Barnabas-Paul & Silas-the 12 Apostles-the 12 minor prophets-the 4 major prophets-the 24 elders (which include some of the above-mentioned people)

 

[Christina]

All I see is you mixing facts with your own conclusions you are taking what scriptures you chose as types mixing it with facts and coming up with conclusions that are not nessairily what the scriptures says ... believe what you will but 144.000 are not the same as the two wittness's who will be in Jerusalem the 144,000 are the Elect ... you want to make them all the same you lose the entire context This argument of the two wittness's being groups or being two has been argued by scholars for many years ... your argument is the old ...it doesnt stand up thats why it is disputed ... there are to many liberties taken ... to many verse's to the contrary that you ignore ... The Word wittness or wittnesses occur 188 times in scripture yet you pull out a few that you think support your view ... and then apply it where you decide .. I agree the 144,000 will wittness but that doesnt mean they are the same as the two ... Two because they are differnt ..seperate ... 144,000 because they are one the same

 

[precepts]

Jordan's
Gee, you sit there in judgment on everybody. Let God be the Judge. Judge the doctrine, not the sinner.
Maybe if there were more judges like me, there wouldn't be so much false doctrines and teachers. Maybe if more people were like me and zealous for the word, we could stomp out the lies, and see the antichrist doctrine operating in christianity with their false miracles and crusades. Go figure!!Jordan's
You accuse everybody and you're right? Says who? Men or God...?
Don't you have a brain? We all know what's wrong or right or what is factual and what's not but some choose to ignore the facts.Like I said before, the media is in a uproar but christianity is undisturbed by what is going on. The "Mark" and "Beast" system is in full effect. Death threats are being sent thru out the air ways with the public unstirred. These must be the days of Noah, eight souls saved.