The testimony of an ex Jehovah's witness Elder.

[David H.]

I Posted this in another thread, but wanted to give this its own space in the Apologetics forum for those who may be struggling with or know someone in the Jehovah's witnesses. This is in an interview format and has a lot of Great hands on information about the topic. (Just a note, I am NOT the "David" in the article)

I was a Jehovah's Witness Elder - David Reed (adam.com.au)

There are many Cults and sects out there like this, and you may want to do some research on the methods of Mind control that they use. Here is another link that has 8 parts, but i will link you to the 2nd part as this is the "hinge of the door" as the link describes, which needs to be unhinged if you are involved in an intervention.

Eight Ways to Identify Religious Brainwashing: Mystical Manipulation (Part 2 of 8) | Liberty for Captives

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I Posted this in another thread, but wanted to give this its own space in the Apologetics forum for those who may be struggling with or know someone in the Jehovah's witnesses. This is in an interview format and has a lot of Great hands on information about the topic. (Just a note, I am NOT the "David" in the article)

I was a Jehovah's Witness Elder - David Reed (adam.com.au)

There are many Cults and sects out there like this, and you may want to do some research on the methods of Mind control that they use. Here is another link that has 8 parts, but i will link you to the 2nd part as this is the "hinge of the door" as the link describes, which needs to be unhinged if you are involved in an intervention.

Eight Ways to Identify Religious Brainwashing: Mystical Manipulation (Part 2 of 8) | Liberty for Captives

And most of all: flee the cult of the "anti-cult", which foundationally operates on fear.

Instead operate out of love of Christ, Truth, and fellow man. Trust in Him. I wanted to better know about JW teachings, so I walked into a JW kingdom hall, not with a pitch-fork, but with *listening ears*. Listen to the individuals there, hear about Bob's love of Christ, Sally's struggles, Mike's quirky sense of humor, etc. Know and love individuals, as Christ did/does. And do not fear.

I spent several months as part of my time better understanding Mike, Sally, Bob, etc. And I am glad of that time, and the better love/understanding I gained. No, I did not become a JW- I have no interest in those beliefs for myself and passionately disagree on many points. But I did better learn and can now better converse with those individuals and other individuals I meet.

I have likewise studied many many different belief systems over the years.

 

[David H.]

Instead operate out of love of Christ, Truth, and fellow man. Trust in Him. I wanted to better know about JW teachings, so I walked into a JW kingdom hall, not with a pitch-fork, but with *listening ears*. Listen to the individuals there, hear about Bob's love of Christ, Sally's struggles, Mike's quirky sense of humor, etc. Know and love individuals, as Christ did/does. And do not fear.

I spent several months as part of my time better understanding Mike, Sally, Bob, etc. And I am glad of that time, and the better love/understanding I gained. No, I did not become a JW- I have no interest in those beliefs for myself and passionately disagree on many points. But I did better learn and can now better converse with those individuals and other individuals I meet.

As Did I, I did my research in the Soc. Of Religion on the JW's, Part to of this was going to meetings reading the literature, interviewing the people. They were all very much like my little Baptist church I grew up in, having singing the same (or similar songs), the structure of their service the same, and their friendliness and demeanor were very similar. Most honestly believe in what they are taught.

That is why I posted the link, as it is a testimony of one who came out of that Cult. An Elder and a teacher within their ranks, that shows us what they are missing. How they manipulate, and mind control.

Intervention is not an easy thing to do. It begins by unhinging the door that has closed the person involved to hearing the Truth. This interview does this, As opposed to beating the person up with anticult language. All Intervention needs to be motivated by Love for the individual, not hatred for the cult, But in many cases that cult is abusing their victims and part of this intervention is exposing this abuse, in order to set them free.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

As Did I, I did my research in the Soc. Of Religion on the JW's, Part to of this was going to meetings reading the literature, interviewing the people. They were all very much like my little Baptist church I grew up in, having singing the same (or similar songs), the structure of their service the same, and their friendliness and demeanor were very similar. Most honestly believe in what they are taught.

That is why I posted the link, as it is a testimony of one who came out of that Cult. An Elder and a teacher within their ranks, that shows us what they are missing. How they manipulate, and mind control.

Intervention is not an easy thing to do. It begins by unhinging the door that has closed the person involved to hearing the Truth. This interview does this, As opposed to beating the person up with anticult language. All Intervention needs to be motivated by Love for the individual, not hatred for the cult, But in many cases that cult is abusing their victims and part of this intervention is exposing this abuse, in order to set them free.

I'm sorry, but I find "anti-cult" stuff to be everything it accuses others of: abusive, manipulative, afraid of truth, hate-filled, and enslaving.

I am a disciple of Christ. I have no need to be "anti" anything or watch "warnings of how bad this group is". Instead I'm just pro-Christ. Faith without fear.

 

[David H.]

I'm sorry, but I find "anti-cult" stuff to be everything it accuses others of: abusive, manipulative, afraid of truth, hate-filled, and enslaving.

I am a disciple of Christ. I have no need to be "anti" anything or watch "warnings of how bad this group is". Instead I'm just pro-Christ. Faith without fear.

Then why are you commenting on an apologetics forum?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Then why are you commenting on an apologetics forum?

Because I believe passionately in the importance of being able to explain one's own beliefs, which is proper apologetics. Pro-Christ and faith without fear.

 

[David H.]

I'm sorry, but I find "anti-cult" stuff to be everything it accuses others of: abusive, manipulative, afraid of truth, hate-filled, and enslaving.

I am a disciple of Christ. I have no need to be "anti" anything or watch "warnings of how bad this group is". Instead I'm just pro-Christ. Faith without fear.

Then why are you commenting on an apologetics forum?

Because I believe passionately in the importance of being able to explain one's own beliefs, which is proper apologetics. Pro-Christ and faith without fear.

a·pol·o·get·ics
(ə-pŏl′ə-jĕt′ĭks)
n. (used with a sing. verb)
1. The branch of theology that is concerned with defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines.
2. Formal argumentation in defense of something, such as a position or system.
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.

Apologetics deals with pointing out errors and defending Christian doctrine. It is vital to the Truth, as it defends those truths. Every Believer should have some ability to defend their faith, this is known as Spiritual discernment. There according to the Word of God, all of the following out there trying to disuade you from the Truth, "Wolves in sheep's clothing", "Seducing spirits", False teachers and false prophets, false apostles, Satan Himself, Gainsayers, Leaders seeking to enrich themselves, etc. To Not be ready for these sorts of people is an open invitation for manipulation and abuse in your life, I sincerely Hope you realize this?

 

[mjrhealth]

Because I believe passionately in the importance of being able to explain one's own beliefs, which is proper apologetics. Pro-Christ and faith without fear.

I have had many a good conversation with JW's, lovely people, got lots of truth, it just all indoctrinated, all in their head, you can see it when you say something and they pause for a moment and than go looking in the bible to respond. But always ends the same, so you than must believe that Jesus built a church and its ours, than when I tell them sorry no he didnt, sounds just like another group,. And when they think they have you, next visit is mum dad and Kids to show the "family"approach, than when they really think they have you along comes an elder. Last time I spoke to that group, many years ago, dont seem to have any where I live currently, they knocked on my door, and I invited them in, always up for a chat, seems they must of being told off, so they wouldnt come in, but did thank me as they said im one of the few that did, but I did suggest to them the reason why people dont listen is because all you have to offer them is your religion, as many on this forum do, but go and find Christ, because when you find Him you will have something to give them. They never came back or I missed them. Had a friend who was a JW too, His wife and I had a wonderfull chat once, she wasnt a JW, but thats another story.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

a·pol·o·get·ics
(ə-pŏl′ə-jĕt′ĭks)
n. (used with a sing. verb)
1. The branch of theology that is concerned with defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines.
2. Formal argumentation in defense of something, such as a position or system.
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.

Apologetics deals with pointing out errors and defending Christian doctrine. It is vital to the Truth, as it defends those truths. Every Believer should have some ability to defend their faith, this is known as Spiritual discernment. There according to the Word of God, all of the following out there trying to disuade you from the Truth, "Wolves in sheep's clothing", "Seducing spirits", False teachers and false prophets, false apostles, Satan Himself, Gainsayers, Leaders seeking to enrich themselves, etc. To Not be ready for these sorts of people is an open invitation for manipulation and abuse in your life, I sincerely Hope you realize this?

Apologetics is about being able to explain what one believes, yes.

Again, with all possible respect, I find "anti-cult" to be the opposite: being focused on why they think somebody else is wrong, rather than explaining what they themselves believe to be correct.

For one example: I explain why I believe in the divinity of Christ. Pro-Christ, pro-explanation. Zero trash talking or fear mongroling. Anti-cult instead focuses on "JW are wrong for their beliefs!" with that negative trash talking approach-- which is fine if the goal is only to be negative and alienate people. But I find it far superior to just explain what I find to be True and let that light shine.

 

[David H.]

For one example: I explain why I believe in the divinity of Christ. Pro-Christ, pro-explanation. Zero trash talking or fear mongroling. Anti-cult instead focuses on "JW are wrong for their beliefs!" with that negative trash talking approach-- which is fine if the goal is only to be negative and alienate people. But I find it far superior to just explain what I find to be True and let that light shine.

Which is what the article does do in the first place. I Do not think you even opened the link and read them? The first is a testimony of a former elder and the process he went through in arriving at the truth of who Jesus truly was. The second is a link that shows how cults manipulate their followers and how they shut the door to the truth of the Word of God, and how that door needs to be unhinged when one is dealing with them. Intervention is something done out of love for that individual and is not always an easy thing.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The second is a link that shows how cults manipulate their followers and how they shut the door to the truth of the Word of God, and how that door needs to be unhinged when one is dealing with them. Intervention is something done out of love for that individual and is not always an easy thing.

^ That attitude itself is trash talking, manipulative, and door-slamming to any truth. It's filled with blindness and hatred, not love of the person or Christ.

Here: I'll run through a practical example to show you a case of how this only hurts. This is an example from people I know closely.

"Mila" marries into a family. She is of a different denomination/faith than her new mother-in-law, "Ella". Ella has heard all of her life of how Mia's faith is a horrible brainwashing cult! Ella's never asked Mia about what she believes (perish the thought!), nor attended her church with her (double perish the thought!), and refuses to engage her about the subject at all (triple perish the thought!). Mia herself is very well studied, reads scriptures daily, has attended church with Ella many times, and is happy to talk about anything.

But Ella knows Mia is in a brainwashed cult and will be damned and will also damn her Mia son Jay and grandchildren! So Mia takes action: whenever Ella leaves the room, Ella tells Jay about all of the evil things "Mia" supposedly believes. Ella hides gifts in anti-cult books she wants Jay to read. She writes birthday cards are full of pushing this agenda etc.

Jay, being a disciple of Christ and interested in facts, asks Mia about these claims. Mia happily chats about things, and resolves fact from fiction. Jay also checks in books, at church himself, etc. And Ella's claims just aren't remotely accurate.

Jay and Mia talk to Ella about this and how her behavior is deeply upsetting to them. Mia defends her actions as "confronting the evil brainwashing cult and intervention must be had!" Ella doesn't have any real foundation of why Ella believes as she does, and can't actually talk about it. She only can parrot about how she's always been told XYZ about how cultists are brainwashed! And when that doesn't hold up... she runs away. Ella has nothing. So she flees.

But that doesn't matter- Ella knows Mia is in a brainwashed cult!




Whom is the real searcher for truth here? Whom is the manipulator?

I mourn how "anti-cult" stuff has robbed Ella of real faith development, driven her to these cowardly hate-filled actions. I mourn how it's denied her chance of ever having a relationship with her daughter in law as a real person (cause she's just brainwashed, you know). I mourn how it destroyed Ella's relationship with her son (who tires of her manipulative antics). It is a tragedy.

And I SO deeply wish that Ella had been exposed to (/embraced) real apologetics: real faith development, pro truth standing with Christ and love. Not the "anti-cult" junk.

 

[David H.]

^ That attitude itself is trash talking, manipulative, and door-slamming to any truth. It's filled with blindness and hatred, not love of the person or Christ.

Here: I'll run through a practical example to show you a case of how this only hurts. This is an example from people I know closely.

"Mila" marries into a family. She is of a different denomination/faith than her new mother-in-law, "Ella". Ella has heard all of her life of how Mia's faith is a horrible brainwashing cult! Ella's never asked Mia about what she believes (perish the thought!), nor attended her church with her (double perish the thought!), and refuses to engage her about the subject at all (triple perish the thought!). Mia herself is very well studied, reads scriptures daily, has attended church with Ella many times, and is happy to talk about anything.

But Ella knows Mia is in a brainwashed cult and will be damned and will also damn her Mia son Jay and grandchildren! So Mia takes action: whenever Ella leaves the room, Ella tells Jay about all of the evil things "Mia" supposedly believes. Ella hides gifts in anti-cult books she wants Jay to read. She writes birthday cards are full of pushing this agenda etc.

Jay, being a disciple of Christ and interested in facts, asks Mia about these claims. Mia happily chats about things, and resolves fact from fiction. Jay also checks in books, at church himself, etc. And Ella's claims just aren't remotely accurate.

Jay and Mia talk to Ella about this and how her behavior is deeply upsetting to them. Mia defends her actions as "confronting the evil brainwashing cult and intervention must be had!" Ella doesn't have any real foundation of why Ella believes as she does, and can't actually talk about it. She only can parrot about how she's always been told XYZ about how cultists are brainwashed! And when that doesn't hold up... she runs away. Ella has nothing. So she flees.

But that doesn't matter- Ella knows Mia is in a brainwashed cult!




Whom is the real searcher for truth here? Whom is the manipulator?

I mourn how "anti-cult" stuff has robbed Ella of real faith development, driven her to these cowardly hate-filled actions. I mourn how it's denied her chance of ever having a relationship with her daughter in law as a real person (cause she's just brainwashed, you know). I mourn how it destroyed Ella's relationship with her son (who tires of her manipulative antics). It is a tragedy.

What You are Promoting here is enabling the person in the cult to remain so. Let us say that Mia is involved in a Cult that has Manipulated her into a sexual relationship with the leader of that Cult. She has now turned away from Ella Who is her biological sister, and no longer talks to her as she is so enraptured by that cult leader, and she is bringing her son into the manipulation of that cult leader as well where he is being groomed into that cult. This is more in line with how cults operate and how they affect relationships and Families. The Only way to Get Mia to see this is to expose the leader of that cult for who he is and the manipulation that he has Mia Under. To do nothing is to enable that manipulation to occur, It is like buying a case of beer for an alcoholic so as not to offend him.

Mystical manipulation is the door, once that person is under the mind control of that cult leader the That door is shut, because the Cult leader has an aura of infallibility, and no amount of "preaching and teaching" will be able to open that door. At this point in time, all you are doing is wasting all your energy and not reaching Mia with the truth. It is not until that aura of infallibility in that leader is drawn into question that she can even begin to be reached. It is not until you tell the alcoholic you will not be buying them their beer, and that they have a problem with drinking that they will even begin to question that they have a problem with drinking.

The reality of cults is far from your example as possible. The reality is that doing nothing will lead Mia even more into the clutches of that cult leader. Exposing that cult leader and his fallibility may not be received with open arms by Mia, but it will plant the seed that will allow her to question that leader later on down the road, If not having an immediate effect on them. this is known as "tough Love". Intervention is never "pretty", but it far outweighs the years lost in the clutches of such manipulation. Mia Then will know that she has someone who is willing to help her should she break free from this cult, and one who will welcome her back as a sister with open arms should she have the courage to question this cult leader. Ella may be seen as the enemy for a time, and their relationship as biological sisters may be affected, but eventually that natural relationship will be the one that restores Mia and brings her out of the cult.

It is the same with intervention with addicts in general, Ultimately they have to want the change and part of that is wanting to have their relations normalized with those that the drugs involved have harmed. Being an enabler will only make them worse off. They will think they can have drugs and those relationships when it should be one or the other.

 

[David H.]

That attitude itself is trash talking, manipulative, and door-slamming to any truth. It's filled with blindness and hatred, not love of the person or Christ.

Taken from link on cult intervention.

Cult Intervention


Cult Intervention is defined as an educational process utilizing a professional consultant. It is not therapy or counseling. Cult intervention should never include hypnosis or other manipulative methods of persuasion and suggestion, which are techniques often associated with destructive cults, groups and/or leaders. Instead, it is a professional presentation and facilitated dialog, regarding the facts and history about a particular group and/or leader. Cult intervention also includes a detailed discussion about the methods of recruitment, indoctrination, persuasion and retention of members, frequently associated with destructive cults, groups and/or leaders. The focus of such an intervention is to inform the subject in an effort to affect their continued involvement with a destructive cult, group and/or leader. This effort not only includes the group-involved subject, but also their family and often others who are concerned. The focus and purpose of cult intervention is to inform the subject, in an effort to help that person reconsider any further involvement with a destructive cult, group and/or leader.



[paste:font size="3"]serious changes regarding someone they are concerned about such as deterioration in self-esteem, finances and physical health. They may see a radical change in personality, typified by obsessive behavior, extreme dependency upon the group/leader, sharply diminished critical thinking, increasing isolation and/or negativity or intensifying hostility towards those outside the group.

Another cause for concern might be a sharp dramatic change in a person's life-style such as suddenly giving up long-held goals, dropping out of school and/or shunning family and/or old friends. Many things, such as the changes previously cited, when done in a consistent pattern that favors the group/leader, may prompt those concerned to consider taking action such as staging an intervention.

Those concerned may also develop reasonable fears based upon their study of the history of a certain group/leader. A group/leader may have a history of violence, sexual and/or physical abuse, financial exploitation and/or medical neglect that cause serious concern.

Intervention (culteducation.com)

Biblical attitude:
And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. (Jude 1:22-23)

 

[Pearl]

Over a few weeks one summer we had a young JW man and his wife visit us. We developed a caring relationship with them by listening and accepting their literature. We told them our stories of how we became Christians and in turn gave them stuff to take away and read. We really felt they were listening - especially the young lady - Alison. She did seem to be taking it in. Then one day the young man - James - turned up with an elder who had a really bad attitude. Ray told him that he had a spirit of religion and wouldn't let him in. Of course James wouldn't come in without the elder. But on parting he hugged me and kissed my cheek but I could see no light in his eyes like you can see the light in a brother's or sister's eyes. Of course they must have had to tell the elder what they were doing and talk about the visits they made to us. I still feel sad for them and pray that they will one day see the truth and get that light in their eyes. I can still see his face and it still saddens me. Ray's cousin is a JW who doesn't want to know. She almost had a panic attack one day when out with us and found herself in a Christian bookshop. She couldn't get out fast enough. Sad

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What You are Promoting here is enabling the person in the cult to remain so. Let us say that Mia is involved in a Cult that has Manipulated her into a sexual relationship with the leader of that Cult. She has now turned away from Ella Who is her biological sister, and no longer talks to her as she is so enraptured by that cult leader, and she is bringing her son into the manipulation of that cult leader as well where he is being groomed into that cult. This is more in line with how cults operate and how they affect relationships and Families. The Only way to Get Mia to see this is to expose the leader of that cult for who he is and the manipulation that he has Mia Under. To do nothing is to enable that manipulation to occur, It is like buying a case of beer for an alcoholic so as not to offend him.

Mystical manipulation is the door, once that person is under the mind control of that cult leader the That door is shut, because the Cult leader has an aura of infallibility, and no amount of "preaching and teaching" will be able to open that door. At this point in time, all you are doing is wasting all your energy and not reaching Mia with the truth. It is not until that aura of infallibility in that leader is drawn into question that she can even begin to be reached. It is not until you tell the alcoholic you will not be buying them their beer, and that they have a problem with drinking that they will even begin to question that they have a problem with drinking.

The reality of cults is far from your example as possible. The reality is that doing nothing will lead Mia even more into the clutches of that cult leader. Exposing that cult leader and his fallibility may not be received with open arms by Mia, but it will plant the seed that will allow her to question that leader later on down the road, If not having an immediate effect on them. this is known as "tough Love". Intervention is never "pretty", but it far outweighs the years lost in the clutches of such manipulation. Mia Then will know that she has someone who is willing to help her should she break free from this cult, and one who will welcome her back as a sister with open arms should she have the courage to question this cult leader. Ella may be seen as the enemy for a time, and their relationship as biological sisters may be affected, but eventually that natural relationship will be the one that restores Mia and brings her out of the cult.

It is the same with intervention with addicts in general, Ultimately they have to want the change and part of that is wanting to have their relations normalized with those that the drugs involved have harmed. Being an enabler will only make them worse off. They will think they can have drugs and those relationships when it should be one or the other.

You completely ignored everything I said....
Ella is the one truly being voluntarily held by a cult here (yes, the cult of the "anti-cult"). Not Mia.
Ella has no interest in truth, change, and is driven by fear. She lives in darkness, sneaking around in darkness, manipulating others, destroying relationship, blindly follows leaders, lack real faith development, etc. Despite her delusions of noble intentions, there's nothing loving or Christ like about it about it. She doesn't want to break free --- this mindset is her security blanket and I've watch her for decades cling tighter and tighter to it. And until she discards such, it's going to continue prevent her from growing in Christ, as a person, and her relationships.



I would urge anyone instead to prayerfully develop faith themselves. Search the scriptures, pray. Ask real questions of yourself and God, really listening to the answers. Walk in love and the light of Christ's Truth, without fear.

 

[David H.]

Over a few weeks one summer we had a young JW man and his wife visit us. We developed a caring relationship with them by listening and accepting their literature. We told them our stories of how we became Christians and in turn gave them stuff to take away and read. We really felt they were listening - especially the young lady - Alison. She did seem to be taking it in. Then one day the young man - James - turned up with an elder who had a really bad attitude. Ray told him that he had a spirit of religion and wouldn't let him in. Of course James wouldn't come in without the elder. But on parting he hugged me and kissed my cheek but I could see no light in his eyes like you can see the light in a brother's or sister's eyes. Of course they must have had to tell the elder what they were doing and talk about the visits they made to us. I still feel sad for them and pray that they will one day see the truth and get that light in their eyes. I can still see his face and it still saddens me. Ray's cousin is a JW who doesn't want to know. She almost had a panic attack one day when out with us and found herself in a Christian bookshop. She couldn't get out fast enough. Sad

Always remember Pearl, that you are planting seeds. God does the growth, each of those seeds you planted will take time to mature. The elder was there to try and convince James otherwise, perhaps some of the discussion you had raising doubts in James about what he was taught, but many times these things take some time.
Thank you for your example, I have had similar conversations as well.

 

[mjrhealth]

Over a few weeks one summer we had a young JW man and his wife visit us. We developed a caring relationship with them by listening and accepting their literature. We told them our stories of how we became Christians and in turn gave them stuff to take away and read. We really felt they were listening - especially the young lady - Alison. She did seem to be taking it in. Then one day the young man - James - turned up with an elder who had a really bad attitude. Ray told him that he had a spirit of religion and wouldn't let him in. Of course James wouldn't come in without the elder. But on parting he hugged me and kissed my cheek but I could see no light in his eyes like you can see the light in a brother's or sister's eyes. Of course they must have had to tell the elder what they were doing and talk about the visits they made to us. I still feel sad for them and pray that they will one day see the truth and get that light in their eyes. I can still see his face and it still saddens me. Ray's cousin is a JW who doesn't want to know. She almost had a panic attack one day when out with us and found herself in a Christian bookshop. She couldn't get out fast enough. Sad

Yes thats what happens

 

[David H.]

You completely ignored everything I said....
Ella is the one truly being voluntarily held by a cult here (yes, the cult of the "anti-cult"). Not Mia.
Ella has no interest in truth, change, and is driven by fear. She lives in darkness, sneaking around in darkness, manipulating others, destroying relationship, blindly follows leaders, lack real faith development, etc. Despite her delusions of noble intentions, there's nothing loving or Christ like about it about it. She doesn't want to break free --- this mindset is her security blanket and I've watch her for decades cling tighter and tighter to it. And until she discards such, it's going to continue prevent her from growing in Christ, as a person, and her relationships.



I would urge anyone instead to prayerfully develop faith themselves. Search the scriptures, pray. Ask real questions of yourself and God, really listening to the answers. Walk in love and the light of Christ's Truth, without fear.

No, I changed the premise of your example to show you what cults are really like. I would rather have my children or new believers in the "anticult" mindset until they can think for themselves and defend their faith, The Cults prey on young believers more than any other group out there. I have seen this many times in my life. You would warn your child not to play around with witchcraft would you not?

You obviously do not understand the gravity of being manipulated by cults and how detrimental this is to the individual, instead your attitude enables a person to remain in their clutches. What does it mean for you to "Break free" from the anticult mindset? To be tolerant of cults? To Enable someone to become a part of a cult? Perhaps you should read what Paul said about seducing spirits. (1 Timothy 4:1-3) Or what Peter says of false teachers, (2 Peter 2:1-3) Or the word of John about testing the spirits and understanding that if they fail they have the spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:1-6). There are countless such examples in scripture.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No, I changed the premise of your example to show you what cults are really like. I would rather have my children or new believers in the "anticult" mindset until they can think for themselves and defend their faith, The Cults prey on young believers more than any other group out there. I have seen this many times in my life. You would warn your child not to play around with witchcraft would you not?

You obviously do not understand the gravity of being manipulated by cults and how detrimental this is to the individual, instead your attitude enables a person to remain in their clutches. What does it mean for you to "Break free" from the anticult mindset? To be tolerant of cults? To Enable someone to become a part of a cult? Perhaps you should read what Paul said about seducing spirits. (1 Timothy 4:1-3) Or what Peter says of false teachers, (2 Peter 2:1-3) Or the word of John about testing the spirits and understanding that if they fail they have the spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:1-6). There are countless such examples in scripture.

You are literally ignoring the real life example I presented.

I’m sorrry, but I find your entire stance here to be extremely hypocritical and cultish yourself. I do not remotely endorse such such tattics and all of the trapped/stunted Ella’s they create. I do acknowledge you don’t want to see this and will just disagree with me.

As for me and my house, I teach Christ. That is salvation, the balm of all ails, and all that is needed.

And I have ran out of things to say within any semblance of politeness.

 

[David H.]

You are literally ignoring the real life example I presented.

I’m sorrry, but I find your entire stance here to be extremely hypocritical and cultish yourself. I do not remotely endorse such such tattics and all of the trapped/stunted Ella’s they create. I do acknowledge you don’t want to see this and will just disagree with me.

And I find your stance here an attitude of enabling cults by not exposing their corruption. In Other words you are not dealing with the reality of what cults are like. The Lives they destroy, how they manipulate, and who they use as their victims.

As for me and my house, I teach Christ. That is salvation, the balm of all ails, and all that is needed.

And I have ran out of things to say within any semblance of politeness.

Again, you would warn your children not to play around with witchcraft, would you not? Just because one has faith does not mean they are immune to manipulation by cults, if you delve into the link on Mystical manipulation, this man was manipulated by a mainline church preacher Not just a known cult, but a leader operating under the spirit of Leviathan. Do You even know what the Spirit of Leviathan is like? How about the spirit of Python or the spirit of Jezebel? How many lives could have been spared if they were taught what these spirits are and how they manipulate so as to avoid them? These spirits operate in churches amongst believers, not outside of them. All the apostles dealt with these false teachers/prophets/apostles in their writings to the churches. Jude even wrote with the desire to speak of their common salvation, but was forced to address "certain men who crept in unawares" (see Jude 1:3-4).

This is the role of apologetics in the first place, not to enable cultish practice but to expose it. You know this is right but your pride just does not want to admit this.

Here is a link on what the spirit of leviathan in a preacher is like:
Charisma Magazine