The thief on the cross misconceptions
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David in NJ
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David in NJ
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David in NJ
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Johann
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Galatians 6:2 states, “Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ” (emphasis added).
What exactly is the law of Christ, and how is it fulfilled by carrying each other’s burdens? While the law of Christ is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9:21, the Bible nowhere specifically defines what precisely is the law of Christ. However, most Bible teachers understand the law of Christ to be what Christ stated were the greatest commandments in Mark 12:28–31, “‘Which commandment is the most important of all?’ Jesus answered, ‘The most important is, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” The second is this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” There is no other commandment greater than these.’”
The law of Christ, then, is to love God with all of our being and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. In Mark 12:32–33, the scribe who asked Jesus the question responds with, “To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” In this, Jesus and the scribe agreed that those two commands are the core of the entire Old Testament Law. All of the Old Testament Law can be placed in the category of “loving God” or “loving your neighbor.”
Various New Testament scriptures state that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament Law, bringing it to completion and conclusion (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15). In place of the Old Testament Law, Christians are to obey the law of Christ.
Rather than trying to remember the over 600 individual commandments in the Old Testament Law, Christians are simply to focus on loving God and loving others. If Christians would truly and wholeheartedly obey those two commands, we would be fulfilling everything that God requires of us.
Christ freed us from the bondage of the hundreds of commands in the Old Testament Law and instead calls on us to love. First John 4:7–8 declares, “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.” First John 5:3 continues, “This is love for God: to obey His commands. And His commands are not burdensome.”
Some use the fact that we are not under the Old Testament Law as an excuse to sin. The apostle Paul addresses this very issue in Romans. “What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!” (Romans 6:15). For the follower of Christ, the avoidance of sin is to be accomplished out of love for God and love for others. Love is to be our motivation. When we recognize the value of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf, our response is to be love, gratitude, and obedience. When we understand the sacrifice Jesus made for us and others, our response is to be to follow His example in expressing love to others. Our motivation for overcoming sin should be love, not a desire to legalistically obey a series of commandments. We are to obey the law of Christ because we love Him, not so that we can check off a list of commands that we successfully obeyed.
I wholeheartedly concur with this.
J.
Johann
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The 10 commandments @David in NJ
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
What was nailed to the cross of our Lord? The 10 commandments?
David in NJ
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Yo
You are My BROTHER Indeed............with the same heart/desire
You said: "Rather than trying to remember the over 600 individual commandments in the Old Testament Law, Christians are simply to focus on loving God and loving others. If Christians would truly and wholeheartedly obey those two commands, we would be fulfilling everything that God requires of us.
You are My BROTHER Indeed............with the same heart/desire
Johann
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David in NJ
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Similiar type of contact sport = which is why we can both be hyper focused at times - lol
Johann
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Most people miss what is being said here beyond what is said.............
What/Who hanged on the Tree for us? = JESUS
JESUS is the Law and the Prophets and on HIM are the TWO Commandments Fulfilled
Commandment #1 Fulfilled = Love God with all your heart
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” - Matt 3:17
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. John 6:38
He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.” - John 8:29
Commandment #2 Fulfilled = Love your neighbor as yourself
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40
David in NJ
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That is me 100% when driving down the highway - it irks my wife
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Johann
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You remind me of myself--hyper--pedal to the floor, me and my Yamaha, good ol' days. Grew up in "plots"--farmland.
J.
David in NJ
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1st Car - 1970 Nova 350
2nd Car - 1970 GTO 400
3rd Car - 1969 Grand Prix 400
4th Car - 1972 Cutlass - not the 442- oh well....
5th Car - 1981 Z28 with T-Tops
27 Points on my license
6th Car - 1980 Nissan 4x4 4cyl - lol
7th Car - 1992 Toyota 4x4 6cyl - upgrade
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Here is what i see from OT to Christ in just a simple approach when looking at the Ark of the Covenant - i will use Ark for short.
On top of the Ark was the Mercy Seat with a Cherubim on both sides facing the Seat with their faces covered by their wings.
YHWH would appear to Moses on/above the Mercy Seat - Exodus 25:20-22
"And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat.
You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.
And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, about everything which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel."
Inside the Ark are the 10 Commandments.
Symbolically JESUS is the Ark of the Covenant and in HIM, in His Heart, in His Being are the 10 Commandments = Living in Him for us.
YHWH appeared above the Mercy Seat = JESUS sits at the Right Hand of God = the True Mercy Seat in Heaven = on our Behalf.
YHWH is the WORD that was God from the Beginning whom Moses saw face to face - Numbers 12:6-8
Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream.
Not so with My servant Moses;
He is faithful in all My house.
I speak with him face to face,
Even plainly, and not in dark sayings;
And he sees the form of the Lord.
JESUS says: "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known."
Psalm 80
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel,
You who lead Joseph like a flock;
You who dwell between the cherubim, shine forth!
Before Ephraim, Benjamin, and Manasseh,
Stir up Your strength,
And come and save us!
Restore us, O God;
Cause Your face to shine,
And we shall be saved!
YHWH is the Good Shepherd - JESUS is the Good Shepherd - JESUS is YHWH who came to save us
“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."
John ch10
If we are in Christ then He is in us and HE preserves our hearts in Him, even when we go astray.
HE is the Good Shepherd that always calls us to Him and HE leads us to good pasture. - Psalm 23
The LORD/YHWH/JESUS is my shepherd;
I shall not want.
He makes me to lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still waters.
He restores my soul;
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.
Peace to ALL whom call upon the Name of YHWH, the LORD Jesus Christ our Good Shepherd - Amen
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Choir Loft
"I did not come to abolish the LAW. I came to fulfill it." (Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17)
The LAW of Moses was established on Mt. Sinai as a gift of GRACE by God to the Hebrew people who were to bear it to all the families of mankind. (Genesis 12:3b) (*)
Fulfill (Merriam-Webster definition) - to put into effect, to meet the requirements of or to bring to an end.
Since the aforementioned statement of Jesus was NOT to bring an end to the LAW of Moses, to NOT abolish it, the action He performed in fulfillment was to meet the requirements of it - of the LAW of Moses. What were those requirements?
The LAW of Moses requires a substitutionary death for the SINs of the nation. It still does. (Ezekiel 18:30) This is the LAW that hasn't been abolished. This is why I wrote the LAW still stands. A death is required for SIN. (Romans 6:23)
Prior to the crucifixion, substitutionary death was provided by ceremonially clean animals. Unfortunately those animals were mortal. Being mortal the sacrifice they provided was TEMPORARY in effect. It had to be repeated. The ritual of animal sacrifice had to be performed continually and constantly. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the lamb of God, IS PERMANENT owning to His immortal nature. It only had to be accomplished once for all and for all time. Therefore it is said in Hebrews that the old LAW (of sacrifice) is obsolete.
We are not here discussing whether it's appropriate for a non-Jew to order and eat a cheeseburger from MacDonald's on Saturday. (A violation of one dietary law and two violations of ceremonial law.) We are here discussing the LAW pertaining to atonement - sacrificial death for SIN.
Since the LAW pertaining to substitutionary death is fulfilled by God when He died on the cross, there is no longer a necessity to sacrifice animals in payment for SIN. When the Jerusalem temple was pulled down by the Romans in 70AD on the 9th day of the month of Av, the sacrifice of animals ended. Animal sacrifice ended, but the permanent sacrifice offered by God upon the cross is still in effect AS IS THE LAW THAT REQUIRES IT and the SAME LAW that justifies those who accept it in their lives.
APART FROM THE LAW NO ONE CAN BE SAVED.
THE LAW of Moses has many aspects other than simple dietary, ceremonial and sacrificial offering. It also serves as a benchmark for prophecy, for doctrine, for moral behavior and for understanding who God (Adonai) is and what He expects of each of us.
Finally it should be understood that LAWLESSNESS was prophesied to multiply in the days immediately preceding the second advent of Jesus Christ. This is not the lawLESSness of criminal violence which has been prevalent all the history of man upon the earth. It is the lawLESSness of departure from God's Holy LAW. It is overt wicked denial of the very character of God and what He expects of us.
"many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved." (Matthew 24:11-12)
Hope this helps.
(*) There are two laws.
The LAW of GRACE, called Torah, was written by God and given to Moses on Mt. Sinai.
The law of works, called Talmud, was written by the Jewish rabbinate during their captivity in Babylon.
Jesus and His apostles lived, preached and died by the LAW of Moses the LAW of GRACE. They constantly preached against Talmud and those who used it to manipulate and indoctrinate the Jewish people. It is this Talmud which Jews consider to be binding upon them today. A growing number of Jews today deny Torah as valid as do Christians. The days of lawLESSness predicted by the apostles have arrived.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Choir Loft
"I did not come to abolish the LAW. I came to fulfill it." (Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17)
Since the LAW of Moses is NOT abolished IT STILL STANDS.
Since it is impossible for God to change, it is impossible for His LAW to change. He made it perfect when He died upon the cross.
What was imperfect? What was made obsolete?
You know not the LAW nor its purpose. But from ignorance you argue against it.
Stay tuned and find out how the LAW was made perfect - NOT abolished......or just read my post #396 above.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Two Adjustments you need to make according to the WORD that was God.
#1 - You have put the "Cart BEFORE the HORSE"
a.) The Law is not Grace
TRUTH - John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.
b.) Grace/Salvation/Gospel is BEFORE the Law - Galatians 3:6-9
TRUTH - just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham..
#2 - ERROR - "Apart from the Law no one can be saved" = FYI, this is a very sinful statement as it stands UNLESS we make Adjustment
TRUTH - Apart from Christ no one can be saved = Matthew 19:23-26
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
TRUTH - Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
YESHUA fulfilled the Law and then nailed it to His Body on the Cross.
The LAW is no longer in effect for those who are Sanctified = it has been abolished and was put to death on the Cross.
ONLY JESUS Rose from the Dead = the LAW remains condemned in death for it is the Law of Sin and Death.
Does this mean we break God's Commandments = ABSOLUTELY NOT = rather we LIVE in them Thru the HOLY SPIRIT and the WORD.
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Choir Loft
"I did not come to abolish the LAW. I came to fulfill it." (Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17)
If Jesus didn't abolish the LAW, then the LAW still stands.
"He who does not live by the LAW will die by the LAW." (Romans 2:12)
You have no idea of the LAW or of GRACE. Beware the leaven of the pharisees for your words speak of having ingested it already.
It's a fallacy of the post-modern church to deny the LAW of Moses and subject itself to lawLESS licentiousness by excusing it as grace, which it most definitely is not.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.
What is the purpose of the LAW of Moses?(*) You obviously don't know.
Here it is for those who have been confused by the rhetoric of licentious churches today.
The PURPOSE of the LAW of Moses is to convict of SIN.
Ever heard of the 10 Commandments? They're part of the LAW of Moses. Those that teach satanic lies and say the LAW has been destroyed or abolished don't tell us which one is revoked. Is it now ok to lie, cheat, murder and steal? Is it ok in God's eyes to commit adultery, covet your neighbor's stuff or disrespect the NAME OF GOD? Which part of the LAW is destroyed? NONE of it. The disciples of satan would have us believe the LAW has been replaced by licentious <fake> grace that allows us to put our hands on any filthy thing we wish. This is an abject LIE and cannot be tolerated either by the LAW or by God who wrote it and gave it to us.
NO ONE CAN BE SAVED APART FROM THE LAW of Moses.
Why do I write these words? The FIRST step in redemption is for a person to understand God's mind and attitude about SIN. God gives us a definition of SIN in His LAW. When we look into the LAW we see the SIN in ourselves and are directed, by the LAW, to seek atonement for it FROM GOD (not from the church). The LAW tells us the act of humility before God is our duty. This act is called REPENTANCE.
There is no substitute for REPENTANCE as is taught by some (who tell us a large donation is sufficient).
It isn't automatic (meaning that the LAW does not save) as some churches insist.
It isn't done for us by a priest (as the largest churches on earth teach).
The LAW says we must each approach God alone - with the appropriate sacrifice in hand SO AS to obtain forgiveness of our SIN - to be cleansed of it.
What's the appropriate sacrifice?
Here's where the rubber meets the road and where many stumble because they've not been taught the LAW appropriately.
In the book of Exodus, God provided a substitute DEATH in atonement for SIN. This death was accomplished by sacrificing animals.
THE PROBLEM with animal sacrifice is that because animals, however ritually clean, are MORTAL. Their sacrifice was TEMPORARY due to their mortal nature. Therefore animals had to be sacrificed constantly and consistently. Read the book of Exodus. This is the Old LAW, the incomplete obsolete LAW regarding sacrificial death for SIN.
THE COMPLETED and PERFECT sacrifice for SIN, required by the LAW, was accomplished AND FINISHED by God when He died upon the cross. Jesus' death provided a PERMANENT sacrifice for SIN due to His IMMORTAL NATURE. Therefore since Christ is God only one sacrifice is necessary for all time. It didn't need to be repeated because it IS permanent.
Therefore it is written that the death of Christ made the LAW perfect.
The LAW is not abolished, as Jesus said, because His death FULFILLED the requirement of the LAW. This is one aspect of the New Covenant - that the sacrifice for SIN is permanent. The old Law, the LAW of animal sacrifice, has been taken away by the more perfect death of God, which cannot be revoked.
Thus neither the LAW nor the DEATH of Christ can be revoked. No one can be saved without it.
This is THE LAW regarding the substitute death for SIN. It has not been changed or abolished. It has been made perfect by One who IS perfect and who died that all may be saved - provided they seize upon it by faith.
Unfortunately most WILL NOT accept Jesus' sacrifice, by the LAW. As a result they shall die and be lost. (Matt 7:14)
It is time to REPENT of our SINs and wickedness knowing that the sacrifice of Christ, by the LAW, will be sufficient for our redemption by the GRACE of God who gave us HIS LAW.
PRAISE GOD FOR GIVING US HIS TORAH.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
(*) Most church types do NOT know there are TWO LAWS.
The LAW of Moses IS the LAW of grace because it was given by God. THIS LAW is called Torah. (1st 5 books of the Bible)
The Law of Works is that which was composed by the Jewish rabbinate during their captivity in Babylon. It's called Talmud.
Jesus and the apostles were JEWS who lived practiced and died by the LAW of Moses all the days of their lives. They constantly argued against the traditional Law of Works and always taught the Tanakh (the Old Testament).
Those of the post-modern church have now established their own TRADITIONS as the Jewish pharisees did before them. They believe they are above God's LAW and are justified by a non-existent licentious grace to put their hands upon any filthy thing they desire - and call themselves holy while they're doing it. They consider themselves above the LAW of God and man - as did the pharisees before them. BEWARE THE LEAVEN OF THE PHARISEES which is already at work in our post-modern churches.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Typical stagnant polluted water from the 'Law keepers' of death and sin................
You can keep your law of Moses BUT i will be kept by the Law of Christ.
Here is a WARNING to all who cling to the Law = You will be judged by it = No one has survived it's Judgment.
It is written: From His fullness we have all received grace upon grace.
For the law was given through Moses; Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.
It is written: A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical.
A man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.
It is written: Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law.
For the law merely brings awareness of sin
It is written: Now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
It is written: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”
Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
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