The Time Frame The Christ Will Come Broken Down

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Vickie

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On war that comes soon is this prophecy's fulfillment:Zechariah 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight "AGAINST IT". The city will be captured. (God is sending the SWORD to go against his nation Israel and Judah) Daniel 12:11 from the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 30 days. During the 30 day period which is the difference of the 1290-1260 (days of the beast in the temple)=30 days that involve the armies surrounding Jerusalem and the people will be fleeing as Matthew 24 describes this event. This is why the wars going on there now will continue till this event is fulfilled, because we are in the birth canal now. We Saints are going into Captivity to go before the beast and false prophet for 1260 days.(Rev 13:7, Dan 7:25) At the end of this 1260 days of opposition we will face, there is a 45 day period occurring, making the 1335 days Daniel spoke of complete and some where in that time frame is where Jesus Returns, though we are not told the day or the hour we are given this time frame. Don't grow weary Our King comes. We are changed ( I Thess 4:15) at the King's coming (if we are alive)and we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. Rev 14:13 Blessed are they who die in the Lord from now on. These two verses go together. Matthew 10:23 Gives us the details of what is happening when we are changed at his coming. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of ISRAEL "BEFORE THE SON OF MAN COMES. The seeds of Jacob have come back with Jesus as Rev 14:1-4 speak of. They have no lie for they have been changed by God while in the desert (Rev 12:6) they are purified by God himself. Isaiah 43 is speaking to Jacob who will pass through the waters the Dragon spews after her Revelations 12:15. This is when their purification starts. This happens in the 30 day period before the 1260 days of the beast in the temple. When the armies are surrounding Jerusalem and the animal sacrifices are stopped. (this is so exciting to me)Then we are put into some rooms that Isaiah 26:19-21 speaks about with the resurrection of the dead. These rooms are the rooms that John 14:2-3 are speaking about. I am just not sure yet, if the time element of the event of Zechariah 14:3 the armies who went against Jerusalem are destroyed by Christ and Judah, as Zech 14:14 proves this, but whether it is before we go into the rooms prepared for us, I am not sure. If anyone can show me in scriptures this answer I would appreciate it. This in Zechariah 14:3 will happen For Judah comes back with Christ as Zechariah 14:14 shows, to fight at Jerusalem. Revelation 14:1-3 is speaking of this same event for John saw that vision of Christ returning with the 144000, who are thosetribes in Rev 7 that had a seal put on them.Judah is with Christ in the destruction of the armies as Zechariah 14:14 declares it. Though the time element of when it takes place before we are put into our rooms or while we are still here is still not clear in the scriptures yet for me. Isa 34 speaks about this event also giving a little more insight to this day of slaughter that Judah and Jesus are bringing in Zech 14. Isa 34:1-3 Come near, ye nations, and listen; pay attention, you peoples! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it.The world, and all that comes out of it! The Lord is angry with 'ALL NATIONS' HIS WRATH is upon all their armies. He will totally destroy their armies, he will give them over to SLAUGHTER. Their dead bodies will send up a stench; the mountains will be soaked with their blood. All the Stars of the Heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. Isaiah 34:1-3 matches up with Rev 14:20 the horse blood risen a distance of 1600 stadia and goes with Zech 14:3,14.This is all end time prophecy that is coming upon Israel quickly and and then against the armies that are going against her is in process now, getting closer to actually being fulfilled. The wars against her will continue until the prophecy of Zechariah 14:2 is fulfilled. Every attack against her is not RANDOM, it is from GOD. HE send the disasters as well as well as prosperity, remember?If anyone knows other scriptures that bring this out more, for I don't believe in books written on this, only scriptures speaking the events itself. I would greatly appreciate it. The part I am still unclear in, is are we are put into our rooms before the slaughter of the armies that came against Jerusalem or after? It is in the bible in one verse some where and I am looking for it. Thanks for letting me share this with you. Look forward to your response. I am in awe of God's words and what they are saying.IN CHRIST PRECIOUS WORDS.Vickie
 

Jordan

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I got a few problems with your post to be honest...Meet Christ in the sky? Not a chance.I Corinthians 15:50-52 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.I Thessalonians 4:16-17 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.Reference: Hebrews 12:1 and the fact the word air in I Thessalonians 4:17 is better translated spirit.And the fact it also makes me think of his scripture.Ezekiel 13:20 - Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.John 14:2-3 is a dwelling place. (IE Heaven)Satan, the son of perdition, is only going to be here for 5 months (Revelation 9:1, 9:5, 9:10) as it is shortened for the Elect's sake. (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20)Yes, God is in control of the nations, but Satan loves to attack Israel... as it is prohecy in the Bible. God is on Israel's side.
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Christina

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Jordan she is talking a Post trib rapture .... I have no problem with this as its really an understanding of the language used The important thing here that we understand we will all be here during the tribulation .... That Antichrist the man of lawlassness ..Son of Perdition ..comes first And our true Christ does not come till the 7th and last trump ... That during Gods wrath not a hair on the head of a believer will be harmed
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 10 2009, 01:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70505
Jordan she is talking a Post trib rapture .... I have no problem with this as its really an understanding of the language used The important thing here that we understand we will all be here during the tribulation .... That Antichrist the man of lawlassness ..Son of Perdition ..comes first And our true Christ does not come till the 7th and last trump ... That during Gods wrath not a hair on the head of a believer will be harmed
Christina, I know that. I also don't have a problem POST-tribulation rapture because it means AFTER.
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But even if there is a small error in her post, does it hurt to even correct some of the details?
 

Christina

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 10 2009, 11:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70514
Christina, I know that. I also don't have a problem POST-tribulation rapture because it means AFTER.
smile.gif
But even if there is a small error in her post, does it hurt to even correct some of the details?
Not at all Jordan but try to give your reason why and what you are talking about .... I wrongly believed you had misunderstood what she was saying because of any lack of explanation as to why you had a problem
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 10 2009, 03:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70522
QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 10 2009, 01:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70514
Christina, I know that. I also don't have a problem POST-tribulation rapture because it means AFTER.
smile.gif
But even if there is a small error in her post, does it hurt to even correct some of the details?
Not at all Jordan but try to give your reason why and what you are talking about .... I wrongly believed you had misunderstood what she was saying because of any lack of explanation as to why you had a problemWell I can admit that I don't know everything in the details. I thought I did explain what I am talking about through scriptures... plus I gave a reference to Hebrews 12:1 and even said that the word air in I Thessalonians 4:17 is better translated spirit after I gave the I Corinthians 15:50-52 and the I Thessalonians 4:16-17 verses. If that doesn't explain what I am talking about... I guess I'll try harder... so I apologize for the lack of explaining things.I can only correct the details of what I am aware of where it's being wrong... I can admit I do not understand some of the things she say... but I'm not the one that likes to post and try to mislead anyone... but I did recognize it was not aiming at Pre Tribulation Rapture nor a Mid-Tribulation Rapture.So no Christina, you aren't 100% wrongly believed you had misunderstood... So again... if I have lack of explanation... I am very sorry Vickie and Christina.
 

Christina

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No need to apoligize Jordan you are correct that we are changed into our new incorubtable bodies at Christs coming ..Now whether we rise to meet him in the air or meet him in the spirit is a matter of how you see the language used.. And to be honest I find it will not be of much importance .We will be changed we will not be harmed by his Wrath ... and he will rule here on earth ...I seriously doubt God's Wrath will take long he doent need much time to care of buisness ... He is Jesus Christ ..
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 10 2009, 05:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70531
No need to apoligize Jordan you are correct that we are changed into our new incorubtable bodies at Christs coming ..Now whether we rise to meet him in the air or meet him in the spirit is a matter of how you see the language used.. And to be honest I find it will not be of much importance .We will be changed we will not be harmed by his Wrath ... and he will rule here on earth ...I seriously doubt God's Wrath will take long he doent need much time to care of buisness ... He is Jesus Christ ..
Well, if it's OK to convince you that I Thessalonians 4:16-17 meeting him in the air is only once... I would never understand why believe meet Him in the air (literally) if it's only said it once. Yes it is a matter of how I see it as the language used... because I can use reference for that too, like Ephesians 2:2.I'm not trying to convince you that I know everything, because I don't. What I'm doing is at least trying to make people think... God would not give us Truth without numbers, as numbers are important to Him... I even see numbers in I Thessalonians 4:16-17 as well."To meet him in the air" (literally) is like making a single scripture doctrine along with "Burning in Hell forever" "Rapture (Pre and Mid)" etc. in my mind. It's OK, if you disagree with me, just try to look for it by using numbers... I firmly believe God would never give us Truth off saying it as a one time only. We see in the bible many, many times, where God uses scriptures for emphasis and/or reminders.That is why I believe it is dangerous to believe anything because it is said in scripture only once. Also dangerous in if possible misinterpretations of scriptures... (in general) This is why I concluded in my studies that in I Thessalonians 4:17 that the word "air" is better translated spirit. Because of emphasis, reminders and numbers, due to I'm a Math person. And Common Sense. (You don't want me to go there)
 

Vickie

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 9 2009, 06:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70484
I got a few problems with your post to be honest...Meet Christ in the sky? Not a chance.I Thessalonians 4:16-17 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Vickie says:You inspired me to examine the word cloud. It brings about a better picture with the word air, which means spirit.. Thanks. Here it is.Cloud strong's ref # 3507 nephele a diminutive of nephos 3509 Eccl. 11:4 the pillar of could in the desert which accompanied supernatural appearances and events in connection with Christ, at his transfiguation, a luminous cloud.Strong's ref # 3509 A cloudy, shapeless mass covering the sky. We will be gathered to him in this luminous cloud. QUOTE
Jordan says:Reference: Hebrews 12:1 and the fact the word air in I Thessalonians 4:17 is better translated spirit.And the fact it also makes me think of his scripture.Ezekiel 13:20 - Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Vickie says:I love what you brought to my attention with the word air. I never gave too much research to rising in the "Air" to meet Christ for I know we are here on earth and never leave it as far as all I have read. Thanks for that pearl! QUOTE
Jordan says:John 14:2-3 is a dwelling place. (IE Heaven)
Vickie says: John 14:1 In my Father's house are many rooms. House is NOT HEAVEN. Greek: oikias Strg. Ref # 3624(I) in the NT oikia is used for an actual HOUSE. (II) It came to figuratively mean family, householdIn John 14:2, which states that, "In my Father's house are many mansions, [mansions is monai, which is a resting place]In 2 Cor 5:1 the metaphorical oikia tou' skenours, "the house of this tabernacle denotes the CORRUPTIBLE BODY. After a careful study of "house" that belongs to the Father it is NOT HEAVEN. This may have reference to individual being the places that the Father dwells in, Us we are the abode of the spirit of God, the temple that the Spirit dwells in. No longer a physical building made by Human Hands. Acts 17:24-25.QUOTE
Jordan says:Satan, the son of perdition, is only going to be here for 5 months (Revelation 9:1, 9:5, 9:10) as it is shortened for the Elect's sake. (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20)
No where is the Rev 9:1 That is not an accurate statement. Let's be factual in this. Revelation 9:3 says: "Out of the smoke "LOCUST" came down upon the earth and were given power like scorpions to sting men, who DO NOT HAVE THE SEAL OF GOD ON THERE FOREHEADS. This is not Satan from out of the Abyss but just Locust let lose by God's angel. These Locust will look just like they are described and they will do just what it says: Sting men for 5 months who do not have the seal of God on them. Satan has given his powers and throne and authority to the Son of Perdition for one hour, or call it 1260 days. Revelation 17:11-14, For ONE HOUR (1260 days) The ten horns are ten kings who have not YET received a KINGDOM, this is because they are to receive Satan's Kingdom for this ONE HOUR, which the 8th King ( Son of Perdition) receives the thrones as Revelation 13:2 confirms. This is the kingdom being formed upon this earth right now and will be bringing forth the 8th King, this Son of Perdition that will make himself known to the earth's people soon. Then the fulfillment of 2 Thess. 2:3 will be fulfilled. We will have a great falling away occur. This is why the Roman empire theory does not hold water, for this kingdom belongs to Satan and is given to these 10 kings for one hour, just as Rev 17:12 says. The is why the earth will be so wicked. For those who worship the beast will be of Satan and filled with demons. We will be subjected to this demonic array of people that won't worship God and still won't repent.For their house is not filled with the Spirit of God, but with the spirit of Demons. A clear picture of why they still won't repent Revelaion 9:20 The rest of mankind that were NOT KILLED by these plagues "STILL DID NOT REPENT" of the work of their hands. "THEY DID NOT STOP WORSHIPING DEMONS." (Pretty clear isn't it?)QUOTE
Jordan says: Yes, God is in control of the nations, but Satan loves to attack Israel... as it is prohecy in the Bible. God is on Israel's side.
smile.gif

Isaiah 27:6-9 In days to come Jacob will take ROOT, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with FRUIT, (in the millennium) Has the Lord Struck her as he struck down those who struck her? Has she been killed as those were killed who killed her? By warfare and exile you contend with her--with his fierce blast he drives her out, as on a day the east wind blows. By this, THEN WILL JACOB'S GUILT BE ATONED FOR. THIS WILL BE THE FULL FRUITAGE OF THE REMOVAL OF HIS SINTheir guilt for their evilness and denying the Lord has to be atoned for by warfare. This is one of the reasons why warfare comes upon the Seeds of Jacob as Zechariah 14:2 proclaims will come on them in the Last Days and is now in process. I have enjoyed conversing with you in this area. We are all learning more quickly as we all have had our eyes darkened by the teachings in the churches, but our Lord is faithful and we are coming out of the shroud that has so easily enfolded the earth's people. Isa 25:7Even if we should not come to complete agreement, let us continue in love and the hope of our Christ that is coming and we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye to serve our great King who has Loved us from the beginning. amen. In Christ's precious words of LifeVickie
 

shutin45

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Hi Y'all.I've wondered if what happened to Enoch and Elijah, and possibly our Savior Jesus as He ascended, is a clue to what will happen to us (chariots aside).Also, while the details aren't clear, after Peter baptized the Ethiopian, he was "transported' a few dozen miles.Jes' wondering.Bless Y'all,Jim
 

Christina

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Vickie Clouds is one of the Words that God also uses as symbolism a cloud can be a group of People not a literal cloud. We still uses this today we might see a cloud of birds fly over our heads ... God interpts his own symbols ... Many fall into listening to mens interptations of his symbols ... If we listen closley God will always tell us what his symbols mean .. the Bible is self interpting Shutin they were transfigured ..Flesh and Blood can not Enter Heaven and yes I think this is exactly what will happen to us our New body is not an invisable Ghost it has substance we will eat live on earth have nations this is all written ...
 

shutin45

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QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 12 2009, 01:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70680
Shutin they were transfigured ..Flesh and Blood can not Enter Heaven and yes I think this is exactly what will happen to us our New body is not an invisable Ghost it has substance we will eat live on earth have nations this is all written ...
Yep. That's what I feel/am led to think from Scripture. That Heaven book by Randy Alcorn has some AWESOME stuff in it about the New Earth. I dogeared the pages in it about the Bride of Christ for another topic I saw here recently. The book is FULL of supportive Scripture that doesn't appear to be wildly interpreted.Bless Y'all,Jim
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (Vickie @ Mar 12 2009, 09:51 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70652
QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 9 2009, 06:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70484
I got a few problems with your post to be honest...Meet Christ in the sky? Not a chance.I Corinthians 15:50-52 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.I Thessalonians 4:16-17 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Vickie says:You inspired me to examine the word cloud. It brings about a better picture with the word air, which means spirit.. Thanks. Here it is.Cloud strong's ref # 3507 nephele a diminutive of nephos 3509 Eccl. 11:4 the pillar of could in the desert which accompanied supernatural appearances and events in connection with Christ, at his transfiguation, a luminous cloud.Strong's ref # 3509 A cloudy, shapeless mass covering the sky. We will be gathered to him in this luminous cloud. QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 9 2009, 06:32 PM) [url="index.php?act=findpost&pid=70484][/url]
Reference: Hebrews 12:1 and the fact the word air in I Thessalonians 4:17 is better translated spirit.And the fact it also makes me think of his scripture.Ezekiel 13:20 - Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Vickie says:I love what you brought to my attention with the word air. I never gave too much research to rising in the "Air" to meet Christ for I know we are here on earth and never leave it as far as all I have read. Thanks for that pearl! QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 9 2009, 06:32 PM) [url="index.php?act=findpost&pid=70484][/url]
John 14:2-3 is a dwelling place. (IE Heaven)
Vickie says: John 14:1 In my Father's house are many rooms. House is NOT HEAVEN. Greek: oikias Strg. Ref # 3624(I) in the NT oikia is used for an actual HOUSE. (II) It came to figuratively mean family, householdIn John 14:2, which states that, "In my Father's house are many mansions, [mansions is monai, which is a resting place]In 2 Cor 5:1 the metaphorical oikia tou' skenours, "the house of this tabernacle denotes the CORRUPTIBLE BODY. After a careful study of "house" that belongs to the Father it is NOT HEAVEN. This may have reference to individual being the places that the Father dwells in, Us we are the abode of the spirit of God, the temple that the Spirit dwells in. No longer a physical building made by Human Hands. Acts 17:24-25.QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 9 2009, 06:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70484
Satan, the son of perdition, is only going to be here for 5 months (Revelation 9:1, 9:5, 9:10) as it is shortened for the Elect's sake. (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20)
No where is the Rev 9:1 That is not an accurate statement. Let's be factual in this. Revelation 9:3 says: "Out of the smoke "LOCUST" came down upon the earth and were given power like scorpions to sting men, who DO NOT HAVE THE SEAL OF GOD ON THERE FOREHEADS. This is not Satan from out of the Abyss but just Locust let lose by God's angel. These Locust will look just like they are described and they will do just what it says: Sting men for 5 months who do not have the seal of God on them. Satan has given his powers and throne and authority to the Son of Perdition for one hour, or call it 1260 days. Revelation 17:11-14, For ONE HOUR (1260 days) The ten horns are ten kings who have not YET received a KINGDOM, this is because they are to receive Satan's Kingdom for this ONE HOUR, which the 8th King ( Son of Perdition) receives the thrones as Revelation 13:2 confirms. This is the kingdom being formed upon this earth right now and will be bringing forth the 8th King, this Son of Perdition that will make himself known to the earth's people soon. Then the fulfillment of 2 Thess. 2:3 will be fulfilled. We will have a great falling away occur. This is why the Roman empire theory does not hold water, for this kingdom belongs to Satan and is given to these 10 kings for one hour, just as Rev 17:12 says. The is why the earth will be so wicked. For those who worship the beast will be of Satan and filled with demons. We will be subjected to this demonic array of people that won't worship God and still won't repent.For their house is not filled with the Spirit of God, but with the spirit of Demons. A clear picture of why they still won't repent Revelaion 9:20 The rest of mankind that were NOT KILLED by these plagues "STILL DID NOT REPENT" of the work of their hands. "THEY DID NOT STOP WORSHIPING DEMONS." (Pretty clear isn't it?)QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 9 2009, 06:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70484
Yes, God is in control of the nations, but Satan loves to attack Israel... as it is prohecy in the Bible. God is on Israel's side.
smile.gif

Isaiah 27:6-9 In days to come Jacob will take ROOT, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with FRUIT, (in the millennium) Has the Lord Struck her as he struck down those who struck her? Has she been killed as those were killed who killed her? By warfare and exile you contend with her--with his fierce blast he drives her out, as on a day the east wind blows. By this, THEN WILL JACOB'S GUILT BE ATONED FOR. THIS WILL BE THE FULL FRUITAGE OF THE REMOVAL OF HIS SINTheir guilt for their evilness and denying the Lord has to be atoned for by warfare. This is one of the reasons why warfare comes upon the Seeds of Jacob as Zechariah 14:2 proclaims will come on them in the Last Days and is now in process. I have enjoyed conversing with you in this area. We are all learning more quickly as we all have had our eyes darkened by the teachings in the churches, but our Lord is faithful and we are coming out of the shroud that has so easily enfolded the earth's people. Isa 25:7Even if we should not come to complete agreement, let us continue in love and the hope of our Christ that is coming and we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye to serve our great King who has Loved us from the beginning. amen. In Christ's precious words of LifeVickieI'm going going to go on some points here. As 1. I am going to highlight some things here. And ask you one question.1. Where do you think our Father is? Our God?John 14:1 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.John 14:2 - In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.John 14:3 - And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.From my understanding... we know that in scriptures that we will not leave Earth at all... so since I know God is in Heaven... Heaven is coming down to Earth.2. How do you get to your idea that the star (Revelation 9:1) is not Satan?The locusts are Satan's angels in Revelation 9. As we know, Satan and his angels are not allow to kill anyone. (Revelation 9:5, 9:10) Their aim to kill them by their lies... their deception.3. Before I go any further, where and how do you explain one hour is 1260 days? (3½ years)Also note what Christina said in her quote in which I'm going to quote in.QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 12 2009, 01:47 PM) [url="index.php?act=findpost&pid=70680][/url]
Vickie Clouds is one of the Words that God also uses as symbolism a cloud can be a group of People not a literal cloud. We still uses this today we might see a cloud of birds fly over our heads ... God interpts his own symbols ... Many fall into listening to mens interptations of his symbols ... If we listen closley God will always tell us what his symbols mean .. the Bible is self interpting
Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.Let's say that Vickie, Christina, and I are gathered in His name... Are we not a Body of Christ? So what I'm getting at is, the Cloud means the Body. Same goes with the Sea.
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Vickie

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QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 10 2009, 01:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70505
Jordan she is talking a Post trib rapture .... I have no problem with this as its really an understanding of the language used The important thing here that we understand we will all be here during the tribulation .... That Antichrist the man of lawlassness ..Son of Perdition ..comes first And our true Christ does not come till the 7th and last trump ... That during Gods wrath not a hair on the head of a believer will be harmed
No I am not taking a post trib. I know I am here with the Elect to face the Son of Perdition. Thanks Christina for you kindness. It is my fault for the way Jordan took my post written. I should go back and fix it. I am in the same boat you all are in.....called tribulation. LOL
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Vickie

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Vickie says:You inspired me to examine the word cloud. It brings about a better picture with the word air, which means spirit.. Thanks. Here it is.Cloud strong's ref # 3507 nephele a diminutive of nephos 3509 Eccl. 11:4 the pillar of a cloud in the desert which accompanied supernatural appearances and events in connection with Christ, at his transfiguation, a luminous cloud.Strong's ref # 3509 A cloudy, shapeless mass covering the sky. We will be gathered to him in this luminous cloud.Vickie says:I love what you brought to my attention with the word air. I never gave too much research to rising in the "Air" to meet Christ for I know we are here on earth and never leave it as far as all I have read. Thanks for that pearl!
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Vickie says: John 14:1 In my Father's house are many rooms. House is NOT HEAVEN. Greek: oikias Strg. Ref # 3624(I) in the NT oikia is used for an actual HOUSE. (II) It came to figuratively mean family, householdIn John 14:2, which states that, "In my Father's house are many mansions, [mansions is monai, which is a resting place]In 2 Cor 5:1 the metaphorical oikia tou' skenours, "the house of this tabernacle denotes the CORRUPTIBLE BODY. After a careful study of "house" that belongs to the Father it is NOT HEAVEN. This may have reference to individual being the places that the Father dwells in, Us we are the abode of the spirit of God, the temple that the Spirit dwells in. No longer a physical building made by Human Hands. Acts 17:24-25.
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Vickie says:No where is the Rev 9:1 That is not an accurate statement. Let's be factual in this. Revelation 9:3 says: "Out of the smoke "LOCUST" came down upon the earth and were given power like scorpions to sting men, who DO NOT HAVE THE SEAL OF GOD ON THERE FOREHEADS. This is not Satan from out of the Abyss but just Locust let lose by God's angel. These Locust will look just like they are described and they will do just what it says: Sting men for 5 months who do not have the seal of God on them.
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vickie says:Satan has given his powers and throne and authority to the Son of Perdition for one hour, or call it 1260 days. Revelation 17:11-14, For ONE HOUR (1260 days) The ten horns are ten kings who have not YET received a KINGDOM, this is because they are to receive Satan's Kingdom for this ONE HOUR, which the 8th King ( Son of Perdition) receives the thrones as Revelation 13:2 confirms. This is the kingdom being formed upon this earth right now and will be bringing forth the 8th King, this Son of Perdition that will make himself known to the earth's people soon. Then the fulfillment of 2 Thess. 2:3 will be fulfilled. We will have a great falling away occur. This is why the Roman empire theory does not hold water, for this kingdom belongs to Satan and is given to these 10 kings for one hour, just as Rev 17:12 says. The is why the earth will be so wicked. For those who worship the beast will be of Satan and filled with demons. We will be subjected to this demonic array of people that won't worship God and still won't repent.For their house is not filled with the Spirit of God, but with the spirit of Demons. A clear picture of why they still won't repent Revelaion 9:20 The rest of mankind that were NOT KILLED by these plagues "STILL DID NOT REPENT" of the work of their hands. "THEY DID NOT STOP WORSHIPING DEMONS." (Pretty clear isn't it?)
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Vickie says: Isaiah 27:6-9 In days to come Jacob will take ROOT, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with FRUIT, (in the millennium) Has the Lord Struck her as he struck down those who struck her? Has she been killed as those were killed who killed her? By warfare and exile you contend with her--with his fierce blast he drives her out, as on a day the east wind blows. By this, THEN WILL JACOB'S GUILT BE ATONED FOR. THIS WILL BE THE FULL FRUITAGE OF THE REMOVAL OF HIS SINTheir guilt for their evilness and denying the Lord has to be atoned for by warfare. This is one of the reasons why warfare comes upon the Seeds of Jacob as Zechariah 14:2 proclaims will come on them in the Last Days and is now in process. I have enjoyed conversing with you in this area. We are all learning more quickly as we all have had our eyes darkened by the teachings in the churches, but our Lord is faithful and we are coming out of the shroud that has so easily enfolded the earth's people. Isa 25:7Even if we should not come to complete agreement, let us continue in love and the hope of our Christ that is coming and we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye to serve our great King who has Loved us from the beginning. amen.
Jordan says:I'm going going to go on some points here. As 1. I am going to highlight some things here. And ask you one question.1. Where do you think our Father is? Our God?QUOTE
vickie says: Well, first of all God dwells in those who are his, me and you, not in temples made by hands. Acts 17:24 and I Cor 3:16. God is omnipotent.
Jordan says: John 14:1 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.John 14:2 - In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.QUOTE
vickie says:We are God's HOUSE which has many rooms. We are these individual rooms. Christ has gone to prepare a place forthe household of God, that he will come back and receive us. This is where I stand on these verses, as the other verseshave convinced me. So, this may sound strange to your ears. For in God's house consist of the Israelites and Christians, which are many people, we are these rooms in the House of God.
Jordan says: John 14:3 - And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. QUOTE
vickie says: Yes, Jesus is coming to fulfill these words, his receiving us, that we will be with him in the fullness and completeness with him. To receive eternal life here on earth and to live in Jerusalem with him over us forever.
Jordan says: From my understanding... we know that in scriptures that we will not leave Earth at all... so since I know God is in Heaven... Heaven is coming down to Earth.QUOTE
Vickie says: The New heavens and new earth are the reconstruction of the old earth that has been destroyed through the earth quakes that shake the cities down and the heavens being rolled back at his coming is just another way of saying a new earth will be rebuilt never to be destroyed again. The heavens too have been destroyed as Isaiah speaks it below.Isa 24:18 last part: The floodgates of the heavens are opened, the foundations of the earth shake. Isa 24:19-22 The earth is broken up, the earth is split asunder, the earth is thoroughly shaken. The earth reels like a drunkard, it sways like a hut in the wind: so heavy upon it is the guilt of its rebellion that it falls--never to rise again. In that DAY the Lord will punish the powers in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below. They will be herded together like prisoners bound in a dungeon: they will be shut up in prison and be punished after many days. The moon will be abashed and the sun will be ashamed.
Jason says: 2. How do you get to your idea that the star (Revelation 9:1) is not Satan?The locusts are Satan's angels in Revelation 9. As we know, Satan and his angels are not allow to kill anyone. (Revelation 9:5, 9:10) Their aim to kill them by their lies... their deception. QUOTE
vickie says: The trumpets are beginning to come forth as Rev 9:6 points out. These are from God, not Satan. The first angel sounded his trumpet and hail and fire mixed with blood comes down. A third of the earth is burned up. Then the 2nd Angel sounds his trumpet and a 1/3 of the sea turns to blood, and so on, each angel has brought this by God's command. The Locust is sent by the command of God also from the trumpet sound of the 5th angel. This is why I know it is from God and it is not SATAN.
Jason says: 3. Before I go any further, where and how do you explain one hour is 1260 days? (3½ years) QUOTE
Vickie says: The Saints are handed over to the beast (Daniel 7:25 for times time and a half, which is 1260 days while he is in the temple.Rev 13:2 says the beast is given the throne of Satan, his power and authority he has been given for 1260 day while in the temple. The beast is a comes from the 10 kings that haven't received this kingdom yet for one hour they are allowed by God to hold the powers of Satan, administered through this beast and his false prophet for the time alloted called one hour, 1260 days or times time and a half time. It all fits into the time element they are allowed to hold it and reign. This is the kingdom coming upon the earth that makes the earth's people wicked and full of demons. This is what we will be subjected to during our allotted time till Christ comes and removes him.
Jason says: Also note what Christina said in her quote in which I'm going to quote in.Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.Let's say that Vickie, Christina, and I are gathered in His name... Are we not a Body of Christ? So what I'm getting at is, the Cloud means the Body. Same goes with the Sea.
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Vickie says: Matt 18:15-20 is speaking about restoring a brother, discipline and prayer, reproving another, all Christ is speaking is how the body of believers are to gather, behave, and handle matters between them. He was establishing that in these verses. The Cloud can mean many things depending on the verse it is being used in. Cloud — The Hebrew so rendered means “a covering,” because clouds cover the sky. The word is used as a symbol of the Divine presence, as indicating the splendour of that glory which it conceals (Ex. 16:10; 33:9; Num. 11:25; 12:5; Job 22:14; Ps. 18:11). A “cloud without rain” is a proverbial saying, denoting a man who does not keep his promise (Prov. 16:15; Isa. 18:4; 25:5; Jude 1:12). A cloud is the figure of that which is transitory (Job 30:15; Hos. 6:4). A bright cloud is the symbolical seat of the Divine presence (Ex.29:42, 43; 1 Kings 8:10; 2 Chr. 5:14; Ezek. 43:4), and was called the Shechinah (q.v.). Jehovah came down upon Sinai in a cloud (Ex. 19:9) You will have to explain more to me in what you are asking on this last question I kinda lost it...sorry.
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In Christ's precious words Vickie
 

Vickie

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 9 2009, 06:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70484
I got a few problems with your post to be honest...Meet Christ in the sky? Not a chance.John 14:2-3 is a dwelling place. (IE Heaven)Yes, God is in control of the nations, but Satan loves to attack Israel... as it is prohecy in the Bible. God is on Israel's side.
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Hi Jordan.I'm not getting what your referring to about a post trib. Where have I given that birth in my post? What part of the post?The end of the 1335 days at some point will Christ return. We are here through the entire tribulation. Being perfected byChrist in it. Thanks, sorry if I have put that understanding into your mind, for it was not intentional. In Christ's loveVickie
 

Vickie

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QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 12 2009, 01:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70680
Vickie Clouds is one of the Words that God also uses as symbolism a cloud can be a group of People not a literal cloud. We still uses this today we might see a cloud of birds fly over our heads ... God interpts his own symbols ... Many fall into listening to mens interptations of his symbols ... If we listen closley God will always tell us what his symbols mean .. the Bible is self interpting Shutin they were transfigured ..Flesh and Blood can not Enter Heaven and yes I think this is exactly what will happen to us our New body is not an invisable Ghost it has substance we will eat live on earth have nations this is all written ...
Hi Christina, I wanted to make a comment with your comment for Shutin.We have been translated just like Enoch. We are translated because we have been given the Holy Spirit.Colossians 1:12-13 Giving thanks to the Father, WHO HAS QUALIFIED YOU to share in the inheritance of the saints in the Kingdom of light. For he has rescued us from the dominion of Darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of God [/u]he loves.We who have the Holy Spirit have been translated. It is not a future thing for us. What we overcome or accomplish now will be taken with us into the kingdom of God when it is set up here on earth. Enoch, like the rest of the House of Israel drank from the ROCK. Enoch is in the ground sleeping waiting for the resurrection. I Cor 10:3 They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink: for they drank from the spiritual ROCK that ACCOMPANIED them, and that rock WAS CHRIST. I Peter 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spike of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to fine out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ IN THEM was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. Enoch, had the spirit of Christ in him and he was translated that he would not see the SECOND DEATH. You and I if we are translated now we either will not see the 2nd death. that was the Death being spoken of in Hebrews 11. What is Faith? faith is being SURE of what we have hope for, Enoch had hope to be in the coming kingdom resurrected to eternal life and he has it, for he did not see it come for Christ has not returned and brought Enoch up from the ground. Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith, looking to receive the promise they did NOT RECEIVE. If they didn't receive the promise as this verse tell us, they are waiting in the ground to receive it at Christ's coming. We have all been translated just like Enoch. Enoch, Elijah, Moses, none have received the promise of eternal life yet. They were all translated just like you and I are now. Colossians makes this very clear for us. If these scriptures say they have not received the promise, then, this verse would be a LIE if Enoch was translated into heaven, would it? John 5:24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word (Enoch heard it and we do) and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will nto be condemned; HE HAS CROSSED OVER FROM DEATH TO LIFE. All of us, just like Enoch have been translated for we have crossed over from death to life, now as we walk with Christ. Our reward of eternal life comes with Christ at His coming. We have been translated just as Colossians 1:13 says. This is what Enoch has been given for he will not see death, meaning the 2nd death. In Christ precious and life giving words. Vickie
 

whirlwind

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QUOTE (Vickie @ Mar 14 2009, 11:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70854
Hi Christina, I wanted to make a comment with your comment for Shutin.We have been translated just like Enoch. We are translated because we have been given the Holy Spirit.Colossians 1:12-13 Giving thanks to the Father, WHO HAS QUALIFIED YOU to share in the inheritance of the saints in the Kingdom of light. For he has rescued us from the dominion of Darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of God [/u]he loves.We who have the Holy Spirit have been translated. It is not a future thing for us. What we overcome or accomplish now will be taken with us into the kingdom of God when it is set up here on earth. Enoch, like the rest of the House of Israel drank from the ROCK. Enoch is in the ground sleeping waiting for the resurrection. I Cor 10:3 They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink: for they drank from the spiritual ROCK that ACCOMPANIED them, and that rock WAS CHRIST. I Peter 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spike of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to fine out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ IN THEM was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. Enoch, had the spirit of Christ in him and he was translated that he would not see the SECOND DEATH. You and I if we are translated now we either will not see the 2nd death. that was the Death being spoken of in Hebrews 11. What is Faith? faith is being SURE of what we have hope for, Enoch had hope to be in the coming kingdom resurrected to eternal life and he has it, for he did not see it come for Christ has not returned and brought Enoch up from the ground. Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith, looking to receive the promise they did NOT RECEIVE. If they didn't receive the promise as this verse tell us, they are waiting in the ground to receive it at Christ's coming. We have all been translated just like Enoch. Enoch, Elijah, Moses, none have received the promise of eternal life yet. They were all translated just like you and I are now. Colossians makes this very clear for us. If these scriptures say they have not received the promise, then, this verse would be a LIE if Enoch was translated into heaven, would it? John 5:24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word (Enoch heard it and we do) and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will nto be condemned; HE HAS CROSSED OVER FROM DEATH TO LIFE. All of us, just like Enoch have been translated for we have crossed over from death to life, now as we walk with Christ. Our reward of eternal life comes with Christ at His coming. We have been translated just as Colossians 1:13 says. This is what Enoch has been given for he will not see death, meaning the 2nd death. In Christ precious and life giving words. Vickie
This was a very, very interesting post....You have opened my eyes to a new truth. I never saw the "translation" in the way you have shown. Thank you....Whirlwind
 

Christina

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A very nice description of translation Vickie One I think many can learn from:)However in the post I was not referring to translation but transfiguration a physical change. trans·fig·u·ra·tion a. A marked change in form or appearance; a metamorphosis. b. A change that glorifies or exalts.Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.Transfiguration is a change in appearance: a glorifying, This event in Jesus life appears in three of the Gospels: Matthew , Mark and Luke. Jesus was transformed,(transfigured) or glorified, by God, and His face was shining like the sun, and his clothes became white as light . Other miraculous signs followed. Moses and Elijah appeared,Matthew 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him."I cor.15 1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. We are talking flesh and Blood bodies here in following the subject We shall not all sleep (thats is die) 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, the flesh blood will be changed (transfigured) 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the Last trump that is the 7th trump that is when Christ returns 1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. These versers in 1 Cor. are about transfiguration not translationP.S. Another reason no pre trib. rapture can happen as we must be transfigured (changed) and that will not occur until the 7th (last trump)
 

whirlwind

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QUOTE (Vickie @ Mar 14 2009, 11:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70854
Hi Christina, I wanted to make a comment with your comment for Shutin.We have been translated just like Enoch. We are translated because we have been given the Holy Spirit.Colossians 1:12-13 Giving thanks to the Father, WHO HAS QUALIFIED YOU to share in the inheritance of the saints in the Kingdom of light. For he has rescued us from the dominion of Darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of God [/u]he loves.We who have the Holy Spirit have been translated. It is not a future thing for us. What we overcome or accomplish now will be taken with us into the kingdom of God when it is set up here on earth. Enoch, like the rest of the House of Israel drank from the ROCK. Enoch is in the ground sleeping waiting for the resurrection. I Cor 10:3 They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink: for they drank from the spiritual ROCK that ACCOMPANIED them, and that rock WAS CHRIST. I Peter 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spike of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to fine out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ IN THEM was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. Enoch, had the spirit of Christ in him and he was translated that he would not see the SECOND DEATH. You and I if we are translated now we either will not see the 2nd death. that was the Death being spoken of in Hebrews 11. What is Faith? faith is being SURE of what we have hope for, Enoch had hope to be in the coming kingdom resurrected to eternal life and he has it, for he did not see it come for Christ has not returned and brought Enoch up from the ground. Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith, looking to receive the promise they did NOT RECEIVE. If they didn't receive the promise as this verse tell us, they are waiting in the ground to receive it at Christ's coming. We have all been translated just like Enoch. Enoch, Elijah, Moses, none have received the promise of eternal life yet. They were all translated just like you and I are now. Colossians makes this very clear for us. If these scriptures say they have not received the promise, then, this verse would be a LIE if Enoch was translated into heaven, would it? John 5:24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word (Enoch heard it and we do) and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will nto be condemned; HE HAS CROSSED OVER FROM DEATH TO LIFE. All of us, just like Enoch have been translated for we have crossed over from death to life, now as we walk with Christ. Our reward of eternal life comes with Christ at His coming. We have been translated just as Colossians 1:13 says. This is what Enoch has been given for he will not see death, meaning the 2nd death. In Christ precious and life giving words. Vickie
Hi Vickie,
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I agree with Christina in that there is a difference in being transfigured and translated. Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Translated - carry over, remove. change sides, transferTransfigured - metamorphose...change, transfigure, transformBullinger said that "being taken was being translated without dying as Elijah 2 Kings 2:9"​
11 Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, "Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee." And Elisha said, "I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me."2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.2:12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, "My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof." And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes and rent them in two pieces.
That hasn't happened to us...yet. But, the chariot of Israel I'm sure is the same mode of transportation Enoch had. They, I would assume, took both of them to where God is and that is heaven. So, there is a difference in us receiving His Holy Spirit and in being translated. Too, I don't believe anyone is in the ground waiting to be awakened. All souls go to Him upon our physical death...flesh goes back to dust.What was fascinating, to me, about your post is your comment...."This is what Enoch has been given for he will not see death, meaning the 2nd death." For some reason that never occurred to me. I had two trains of thought. First, when I just began to study, I thought that he was taken and would never physically die.
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Secondly, that he was taken so he wouldn't see death...see what was going to happen in Noah's flood. See humanity dying. A third could be....death is one of Satan's names. He was taken so he didn't have to face death, Satan.But...I believe you are absolutely correct. He was taken and given assurance of spiritual life. He would not see the second death.​
 
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