The Tree Of Life

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

newnature

New Member
Mar 24, 2011
53
1
0
Hi everyone, just reasoning out that life Yahweh has within himself, which is the same life the tree of life produces, that life is cool stuff. Thanks for any reasoning insights one has on this tree of life series.

Post 1 of the tree of life series

If one really thinks about it, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. After all, that’s what the serpent omitted in his speech, before Eve ate off the tree of knowledge of good and bad. The serpent said, “You are not going to die, but Yahweh knows that as soon as you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings, who know good and bad.” It’s true in one sense, but false in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out, that its the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. For Adam and Eve to have true freedom of will, Adam and Eve have to have the freedom to rebel. This is why this tree is in the garden, next to the tree of life; instead, evil will come about as a result of the clash of the will of Yahweh, and the will of humans, who happen to have the freedom to rebel. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Yet, evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior. The drama of Adam and Eve’s life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, nor preoccupation with immortality; it was not in Yahweh’s design for this kind of drama. It was Yahweh’s design for the tree of life to have been eaten of, there was no danger to Adam and Eve going on eternally, being immortal. The eating off the tree of knowledge of good and bad, has caused a moral conflict and tension between Yahweh’s good design for creation, and the free will of human beings that can corrupt that good design. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. Man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. Human freedom can be at one and the same time an omen of disaster, and a challenge, and opportunity.

So despite Adam and Eve’s newfound mortality, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. They’re unpredictable to the very Yahweh who created them. Yahweh has to modify his plan, by barring access to the tree of life; that was not something presumably Yahweh planned to do. Adam and Eve had access to this tree up to that point, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal. Once they discovered their moral freedom, once they discovered that they could thwart Yahweh and work evil in the world, and abuse and corrupt all that Yahweh had created, then Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life. That would be tantamount to creating divine enemies, immortal enemies. So Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. And Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden. The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So it might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad did bring death to human race.

http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=12
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
Towards a more perfect understanding, I offer the following comments...

If one really thinks about it, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. After all, that’s what the serpent omitted in his speech, before Eve ate off the tree of knowledge of good and bad. The serpent said, “You are not going to die, but Yahweh knows that as soon as you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings, who know good and bad.” It’s true in one sense, but false in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out, that its the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good.

I kind of grasp your meaning, but would choose another way to say it. Per Ezek.28, God originally created Satan (that old serpent) good. Satan was originally perfect in his ways until he sinned in wanting to be God. So the temptation in the Garden he threw at Adam and Eve was about his own sin when he first rebelled in coveting God's Throne for himself. In that sense, knowledge of evil did not even begin to exist until Satan first sinned, which was the very first sin against God ever. For God's Eternity, He has promised to make our hearts anew without a chance for a second rebellion. This is why He sent The Gospel by His Son into this world, each is to make a choice whether they want to continue with Him for eternity or not. Evil won't exist in that future time, nor will we have knowledge of it. God is going to remove the evil, which is difficult for many to understand, since today's world seems so dependent upon the manifesting of opposites.

Those in Christ Jesus now are "the sons of God", and that means children of God, their not actually becoming little gods. It's not dependent upon knowledge of good and evil. It's dependent upon following God as His children.


Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Yet, evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior.

Actually, Satan is the source of all evil. It stims from him, since he sinned in the beginning like God's Word says. Sin as defined in the NT is the transgression of the law. A good question is which laws of God did Satan break when he rebelled? Also note, our human nature of today did not exist when Satan first sinned and did evil. So evil and sin actually first began in the heavenly realm with Satan's sin, not the flesh. That's something to think about. Because of the sin in God's Garden, sin has been assigned to all born flesh so that Salvation would come through Faith on The Saviour Jesus Christ (Gal.3:22). Evil stems from disobedience to God. All evil is sin against God.


The drama of Adam and Eve’s life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, nor preoccupation with immortality; it was not in Yahweh’s design for this kind of drama. It was Yahweh’s design for the tree of life to have been eaten of, there was no danger to Adam and Eve going on eternally, being immortal. The eating off the tree of knowledge of good and bad, has caused a moral conflict and tension between Yahweh’s good design for creation, and the free will of human beings that can corrupt that good design. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. Man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. Human freedom can be at one and the same time an omen of disaster, and a challenge, and opportunity.

God created flesh Adam and Eve in His Garden without sin. It was their disobedience against God's commandment that caused them to sin, and thus brought Satan's death upon themselves and us. I choose to think that it was destined to happen, so Christ's Salvation could be offerred. There's a mystery involving that, which I won't go into here. Immortality really is... what Christ's Salvation is about. To have eternal life through Christ means to never die (not by the flesh, but by The Spirit to our spirit and redemption bodies when He returns). And once again, once Satan and the wicked are destroyed, the principle of evil will no longer exist in God's Eternity. It won't even come into the minds of the saved then. That's a very important part of God's Promised Salvation through His Son, evil no longer existing nor being thought of.


So despite Adam and Eve’s newfound mortality, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. They’re unpredictable to the very Yahweh who created them. Yahweh has to modify his plan, by barring access to the tree of life; that was not something presumably Yahweh planned to do. Adam and Eve had access to this tree up to that point, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal. Once they discovered their moral freedom, once they discovered that they could thwart Yahweh and work evil in the world, and abuse and corrupt all that Yahweh had created, then Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life. That would be tantamount to creating divine enemies, immortal enemies. So Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. And Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden. The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So it might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad did bring death to human race.


Before the foundation of this world, God's Plan of Salvation through Christ had already been ordained. That's why I believe Adam and Eve were setup for failfure, and never were to retain their original state in God's Garden with access to the Tree of Life. The Devil is who brought the cause of it, not Adam and Eve, nor their human nature.

Some have asked why God didn't just go ahead and destroy Satan and those who rebelled with him at the first, and not having brought today's world. It's because God is long-sufferring, not wanting anyone to perish with Satan in the lake of fire. It's about making a choice, that's what today is for. It's not about the human condition, because these vessels God created us with in this world have been destined to imperfection and corruption, and will never see immortality. The only way to have imortality is through bodies of incorruption which Christ will give those who believe on The Father through Him at the last day. The glory to come on that day for those who believe will not be comparable to today's time.

2 Pet 3:10-13
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
(KJV)


Those in Christ Jesus are not to dwell on our mortal condition born with today, for it is promised to pass with this present world. We are to look to the future, in hope for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, all evil done away. No sickness, no pain, no heat, no cold, no hunger, no thirst, and no death.




 

Alethos

New Member
Mar 8, 2011
685
4
0
Melbourne Australia
Veteran

There is so much baloney, balderdash and hogswallop in your remarks I do not know where to start?

Towards a more perfect understanding, I offer the following comments...

God originally created Satan (that old serpent) good.



Please provide Bible quote

Satan was originally perfect in his ways until he sinned in wanting to be God.



Please provide Bible quote

So the temptation in the Garden he threw at Adam and Eve was about his own sin when he first rebelled in coveting God's Throne for himself.



Please provide Bible quote

In that sense, knowledge of evil did not even begin to exist until Satan first sinned, which was the very first sin against God ever. For God's Eternity, He has promised to make our hearts anew without a chance for a second rebellion. This is why He sent The Gospel by His Son into this world, each is to make a choice whether they want to continue with Him for eternity or not. Evil won't exist in that future time, nor will we have knowledge of it.



Oh but evil existed in Heaven even before Earths creation :blink: but in the future it will be all gone and angels wont be albe to sin, or will, they? let me think about that for a moment??????

Please provide Bible quote

God is going to remove the evil, which is difficult for many to understand, since today's world seems so dependent upon the manifesting of opposites.

Those in Christ Jesus now are "the sons of God", and that means children of God, their not actually becoming little gods. It's not dependent upon knowledge of good and evil. It's dependent upon following God as His children.


What Bible are you reading Veteran? Hollywood version? Who is the director?

Actually, Satan is the source of all evil. It stims from him, since he sinned in the beginning like God's Word says. Sin as defined in the NT is the transgression of the law. A good question is which laws of God did Satan break when he rebelled? Also note, our human nature of today did not exist when Satan first sinned and did evil. So evil and sin actually first began in the heavenly realm with Satan's sin, not the flesh. That's something to think about. Because of the sin in God's Garden, sin has been assigned to all born flesh so that Salvation would come through Faith on The Saviour Jesus Christ (Gal.3:22). Evil stems from disobedience to God. All evil is sin against God.



Source of Evil is the Flesh James 1:14.

God created flesh Adam and Eve in His Garden without sin. It was their disobedience against God's commandment that caused them to sin, and thus brought Satan's death upon themselves and us. I choose to think that it was destined to happen, so Christ's Salvation could be offerred. There's a mystery involving that, which I won't go into here. Immortality really is... what Christ's Salvation is about. To have eternal life through Christ means to never die (not by the flesh, but by The Spirit to our spirit and redemption bodies when He returns). And once again, once Satan and the wicked are destroyed, the principle of evil will no longer exist in God's Eternity. It won't even come into the minds of the saved then. That's a very important part of God's Promised Salvation through His Son, evil no longer existing nor being thought of.



Lots of words as usual but no Bible quotes to support. Veteran your comments are full of church dogma's.

Before the foundation of this world, God's Plan of Salvation through Christ had already been ordained. That's why I believe Adam and Eve were setup for failfure, and never were to retain their original state in God's Garden with access to the Tree of Life. The Devil is who brought the cause of it, not Adam and Eve, nor their human nature.



Rom 5:12 (doesnt mention your beloved satan?????

Some have asked why God didn't just go ahead and destroy Satan and those who rebelled with him at the first, and not having brought today's world. It's because God is long-sufferring, not wanting anyone to perish with Satan in the lake of fire. It's about making a choice, that's what today is for. It's not about the human condition, because these vessels God created us with in this world have been destined to imperfection and corruption, and will never see immortality. The only way to have imortality is through bodies of incorruption which Christ will give those who believe on The Father through Him at the last day. The glory to come on that day for those who believe will not be comparable to today's time.

2 Pet 3:10-13
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
(KJV)

Please see study at http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13642-a-new-heaven-and-a-new-earth/page__p__105778__fromsearch__1#entry105778 for a Bible based study on New Hevens and Earth.

Those in Christ Jesus are not to dwell on our mortal condition born with today, for it is promised to pass with this present world. We are to look to the future, in hope for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, all evil done away. No sickness, no pain, no heat, no cold, no hunger, no thirst, and no death.


Surely Veteran you can see your error?

Alethos
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
63
North Carolina


Before the foundation of this world, God's Plan of Salvation through Christ had already been ordained.


Tis true, it wasn't a modification to Yahveh's plan as the OP suggests, it was His plan from the beginning just as the scriptures state.Yahveh's intent is for mankind to know Him, His grace and forgiveness are wonderful attributes that could not have been experienced by everyone otherwise.
smile.gif