The Trinity

[marks]

The son was the agency used by his Father to bring all things into existence.
That is what Colossians 1:15-17 says...
"15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

You seem to be saying exactly opposite to what you think.

Do you, or do you not, consider Jesus Christ to have been created? That there was a time He did not exist, and then He came into being because God caused that to be so? Is that what you think?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Seeing only what the English word “god” means in contrast to the Greek is short sighted IMO.

Looking at theos, then, would you describe yourself as "polytheistic", that is, believing there are more than One True God?

Much love!

 

[TEXBOW]

God said (to the angels) let us make man in our image.
.

Angels were not made in God's image. Please.

 

[GodsGrace]

Except hypostatic Union is ingloriously not in Scripture. What is in Scripture is Christianity’ end game which STILL keeps God and Jesus as not one in the same. 1 Cor 15:23-28

Since you consider yourself to be a Christian but do not care to follow the beliefs that Christians have believed for 2,000 years...
Perhaps you could explain to us how Jesus was just a man, a heresy called Arianism, BTW, if He though He could forgive men their sins
and if He was able to be resurrected from the dead.

Do you, at least, believe Jesus was resurrected from the dead?
And if He was...would that make Him an ordinary man?

And if He wasn't, why would you call yourself a Christian??

Jesus was fully man and fully God.
How would YOU explain His nature?

 

[GodsGrace]

Angels were not made in God's image. Please.

Funny stuff !

 

[GodsGrace]

If you look at other NT texts than the flawed Received Text, you will see that many modern texts have monogenes theos. Also the p66 and p75 manuscripts dated to the second century have onlybegotten theos.

P66 and P75 would seem to confirm what the N.T. scriptures state.
Only Begotten Theos.
Only Begotten God.
Right.

When a person has to start to GO TO THE GREEK, he's usually trying to change what is in written in scripture.

THEOS
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon


Strong's Number: 2316 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
qeoß of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with (3588)) the supreme Divinity
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Theos 3:65,322
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
theh'-os Noun Masculine
Definition

1. a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2. the Godhead, trinity
   1. God the Father, the first person in the trinity
   2. Christ, the second person of the trinity
   3. Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3. spoken of the only and true God
   1. refers to the things of God
   2. his counsels, interests, things due to him
4. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges

NAS Word Usage - Total: 1314
divinely 1, God 1267, god 6, God's 27, God-fearing 1, godly 2, godly* 1, gods 8, Lord 1

 

[GodsGrace]

That is where you are dead wrong....JW's do believe in the divinity of Christ.....we just do not believe in his deity, which is not mentioned even once in scripture. Christendom gets these two things muddled....but they are not interchangeable terms.


Who are you to say who is and who isn't a Christian?....Jesus has that privilege, unless of course he has delegated that assignment to you...?


Are you speaking for "all Christians" now, many of whom do not subscribe to much of what you believe.....?


By their fruits...Jesus said. Rotten fruit comes off rotten trees. (Matthew 7:16-19)

P.S.
How would YOU feel about it if I joined a site of the Witnesses,
Wrote JW under my avatar,
and then proceeded to try to convert everyone to Christianity?

I believe you would take issue with my self-description.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are all people named Immanuel God? If not, why not?

Immanuel is not the name of Jesus.
His name is Jesus.
Immanuel is a title given to Jesus.

Theodore has the word GOD in it.
Are all persons names Theodore God?

You should try to be more serious with your questions...

 

[Grailhunter]

Give God always the glory my friend! Why there must be differences between people who love God I believe is part of God's plan to give us opportunity to show charity one to another. Being one in Spirit, in Love, may not be so easy when we differ in what we are able to see and understand and believe. God can help us that as well. What a mighty God we serve!

Ya know it is all a matter of perspective.....objective.....look at the forest from a distance.
Why is it that I can get along with all those denominations that I fellowship with?
For one I don't debate in church....LOL...They do not see that side of me.
For another, I love Christians....but I do not think that any of the denominations are totally correct....
Of course I think I am pretty close....but I am not perfect so I have to be wrong on a couple things....LOL

So in a lot of ways we are in the same boat.....so it is best to fellowship with one another and love one another....kind of what you are told to do.....the boat is Christianity.

As long as their beliefs are not too crazy!....if ya have any OSAS people in the boat....that would make it difficult and uncomfortable because you would always have to sleep with one eye open because they believe they could do anything to you or everyone and still go to heaven. One guy alive in the boat and he thinks he is going to heaven.

Same thing goes with Calvinists.....they could kill everyone in the boat and think that it is not their fault because God predestined them to kill everyone. Irresistible Grace right?

You don't want any Jehovah's Witnesses in the boat because Christ might walk out there and sink the boat.... because he is only a man.

Maybe we could put them on a tether in a dinghy boat and see if they would get along. "No I am the elect! No I know the one true God! You guys worship a man!" All the while the OSAS people are loading there shotguns. "Either way we are getting forgiveness for this and going to heaven!"

But still no one is perfect and no one is totally right and all live in glass houses and have banana peels for sandals. But we can keep rowing that boat and sing hymns to the Lord together.

 

[TEXBOW]

Immanuel is not the name of Jesus.
His name is Jesus.
Immanuel is a title given to Jesus.

Theodore has the word GOD in it.
Are all persons names Theodore God?

You should try to be more serious with your questions...

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

 

[Cooper]

Angels were not made in God's image. Please.

I suggest we, and angels, are very much in the image of God spiritually. For God is spirit (John 4:24) and so are the angels in heaven. We are not talking about a physical likeness but a spiritual one.

You said so yourself in post #204
"Genesis 1:26
Then God said, ``Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

So to be in God's image means we possess personality: knowledge, feelings, and will. We possess morality and so can make moral judgments. We have a conscience, and we can see, hear, smell, touch, speak, think, and plan. Furthermore, we have dominion over the earth and are beholden to use this dominion responsibly by caring for it in our stewardship of the earth.

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the Trinity though.
.

 

[amadeus]

Ya know it is all a matter of perspective.....objective.....look at the forest from a distance.
Why is it that I can get along with all those denominations that I fellowship with?
For one I don't debate in church....LOL...They do not see that side of me.
For another, I love Christians....but I do not think that any of the denominations are totally correct....
Of course I think I am pretty close....but I am not perfect so I have to be wrong on a couple things....LOL

So in a lot of ways we are in the same boat.....so it is best to fellowship with one another and love one another....kind of what you are told to do.....the boat is Christianity.

As long as they do not have crazy beliefs....if ya have any OSAS people in the boat....that would make it difficult and uncomfortable because you would always have to sleep with one eye open because they believe they could do anything to you or everyone and still go to heaven. One guy alive in the boat and he thinks he is going to heaven.

Same thing goes with Calvinists.....they could kill everyone in the boat and think that it is not their fault because God predestined them to kill everyone. Irresistible Grace right?

You don't want any Jehovah's Witnesses in the boat because Christ might walk out there and sink the boat.... because he is only a man.

Maybe we could put them on a tether in a dinghy boat and see if they would get along. "No I am the elect! No I know the one true God! You guys worship a man!" All the while the OSAS people are loading there shotguns. "Either way we are getting forgiveness for this and going to heaven!"

But still no one is perfect and no one is totally right and all live in glass houses and have banana peels for sandals. But we can keep rowing that boat and sing hymns to the Lord together.

LOL... You had me laughing for a bit there. Thank you for that. So many people are seriously critical and without real understanding or charity for those who cannot agree with them.

They may call it tough love, but I rarely would be able to do that... unless it were directed at me...hmmm?

 

[GodsGrace]

Most all have sold out . My advice , be in those bibles and be learning and stay stirred up with those pure reminders .
The leadership has tanked and most all have failed the church . The lambs must look out for one another
and NEVER encourage anyone to enter into a false church . Give them no hope within those chambers .
Only death and confusion awaits all who her enter into her chambers . Be encouraged .

I'll have to agree with you.
But I also believe it's good to fellowship with other Christians.
I know this for sure because I've moved to a place where we have only the Catholic Church.
It has changed from what it was in the past and it's much better and I have born again Christians that belong to this denomination.
It's rather a cold church however, unless you could make friends with a Deacon or Priest and really share with them.
I'm sorry to say that over here they each have more than one Parish and they're very busy.

I really can't imagine staying home and reading the bible and that's where it ends.
This forum is really helpful to me also.
Even if we here don't agree on everything, at least we get to talk to each other about matters that interest us.

So, yes. Keep reading that bible...
but try to hang out with others of the same faith.
I believe that by the end of His ministry, Jesus knew a separate church would have to be instituted.
(from the Jewish one).

 

[GodsGrace]

I suggest we, and angels, are very much in the image of God spiritually. For God is spirit (John 4:24) and so are the angels in heaven. We are not talking about a physical likeness but a spiritual one.

You said so yourself in post #204
"Genesis 1:26
Then God said, ``Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

So to be in God's image means we possess personality: knowledge, feelings, and will. We possess morality and so can make moral judgments. We have a conscience, and we can see, hear, smell, touch, speak, think, and plan. Furthermore, we have dominion over the earth and are beholden to use this dominion responsibly by caring for it in our stewardship of the earth.

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the Trinity though.
.

Let US make man in OUR image ....
is the plural of God.
It does not mean angels. (that are not God).

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL... You had me laughing for a bit there. Thank you for that. So many people are seriously critical and without real understanding or charity for those who cannot agree with them.

They may call it tough love, but I rarely would be able to do that... unless it were directed at me...hmmm?

You cannot take things too seriously. There have been people that have killed themselves and others over internet conversations. There are studies on this....the human mind interacting with the human disconnect of the internet.

This forum is more or less set up for debate, which is not a bad thing, I enjoy it.
The problem is that any thread can be invaded by any attitude.
You could setup a thread for discussions and options but it is prey to every and all attitudes.
I see it a lot, ya know people will try to setup thread for positive comments and prayers and next thing you know you got someone that wants to argue and be belligerent.
The person that sets up a thread should have rights to delete posts and ban persons from that thread to keep it on track. They are probably going to say that cannot be done....I am a computer tech so I know it can be done....it just maybe expensive.

As it is now, I talk to the people I want to talk to and ignore the rest. I like you....two old men....LOL Don't take anything I say too seriously either....My humor is kind of dry they tell me....so I say to picture me as a laughing clown holding up a bottle of Jack Daniels. I know I spelt that right because there is a bottle arms length from me. Take things in stride.

 

[amigo de christo]

I'll have to agree with you.
But I also believe it's good to fellowship with other Christians.
I know this for sure because I've moved to a place where we have only the Catholic Church.
It has changed from what it was in the past and it's much better and I have born again Christians that belong to this denomination.
It's rather a cold church however, unless you could make friends with a Deacon or Priest and really share with them.
I'm sorry to say that over here they each have more than one Parish and they're very busy.

I really can't imagine staying home and reading the bible and that's where it ends.
This forum is really helpful to me also.
Even if we here don't agree on everything, at least we get to talk to each other about matters that interest us.

So, yes. Keep reading that bible...
but try to hang out with others of the same faith.
I believe that by the end of His ministry, Jesus knew a separate church would have to be instituted.
(from the Jewish one).

That church is only doing what it has always done . it is as the chameleon and will change its color to FIT in with its surroundings .
They are decieving us . All they want is to get us all to come together as one .

 

[GodsGrace]

You can’t answer the simple question because you place your trinitarian idol over bringing people to Christ so they might be saved.

You can think what you may....
but, just to be correct,
I DID answer your question.
Read it again...

 

[Wrangler]

Since you consider yourself to be a Christian but do not care to follow the beliefs that Christians have believed for 2,000 years...

It’s more like the last 1600 years, since the trinitarians made up their doctrine in the 4th century.

The Apostles were not trinitarians and Jesus never taught the doctrine of the trinity. This is the Scriptural record.

 

[Cooper]

Let US make man in OUR image ....
is the plural of God.
It does not mean angels. (that are not God).

I do not understand you. TEXBOW said in response to me, "Angels were not made in God's image. Please. #244"
Aren't angels spiritual beings like God? I think they are.

And who was God talking to when he said, "Let us make man in our image" if it wasn't the angels? Back then, Jesus was the pre-incarnate Creator, the WORD. The One God. There was no other in heaven apart from the WORD and the angels. Jesus was not born on earth until billions of years later.
.

 

[Wrangler]

why would you call yourself a Christian??

I call myself a Christian because I follow the teachings of the man, holding him as my master and Savior. Why do you call yourself a Christian?