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The Trinity

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by watt, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. watt

    watt New Member

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    THE TRINITYIN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere I AM again to share with you all THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE.THE TRINITYOne of the most important doctrines of the Christian faith is that of the TRINITY. From Scripture we learn that GOD, by nature is a TRIUNE BEING OR TRINITY. The subject of the TRINITY is holy ground because it discusses the nature of THE ONE, TRUE, GOD. Consequently we should approach the subject with all humility and reverence.All Doctrine Must Be Derived From The BibleAt the outset we must state that any belief about the TRINITY must come from the BIBLE and the BIBLE ALONE. It is the only authoritative source to discover answers about GOD and HIS NATURE. The BIBLE, by itself, must answer the question as to whether or not there is such a thing as a TRINITY. Tradition or the pronouncements of some church authority does not make the doctrine true.The Trinity Is Only Known By RevelationIn addition, the doctrine of the TRINITY could only be known by divine revelation- it cannot be known by human reason. The only way in which the inner working of GOD could be known is that GOD revealed it to humanity. The BIBLE says THE MIND OF THE LORD IS UNKNOWN TO HUMANITY.For who has known THE MIND OF THE LORD, that he will instruct him?But we have THE MIND OF CHRIST (1 Corinthians 2:16).The Trinity is a doctrine that GOD has revealed to humankind through the Scriptures. It is not the result of human reasoning.The Definition Of The TrinityThe doctrine of the TRINITY, simply stated, is as follows: The BIBLE teaches that there is ONE ETERNAL GOD who is THE CREATOR and Sustainer of the universe. HE IS THE ONLY GOD that exists. However, within the nature of this ONE GOD ARE THREE PERSONS, or three centers of consciousness - THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. These THREE PERSONS are co-equal and co-eternal. THEY ARE also distinguishable or distinct from ONE ANOTHER. THESE THREE distinct PERSONS ARE THE ONE GOD. Everything that is true about GOD is true about THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. MAY GOD BLESS ALL.AMENFROM WATT.
     
  2. watt

    watt New Member

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    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere I AM again to share with you all THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVEHERE THE TRUTH OF"TRINITY" (Capital letter with blue font)Isaiah 48:12,16"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I AM HE, I AM THE FIRST, I AM ALSO THE LAST... Come near to Me, listen to this: from the first I have not spoken in secret, from the time it took place, I was there. And now the LORD GOD has sent ME, and His SPIRIT."Matthew 28:19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER and the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT."Luke 24:49"And behold, I (Jesus) am sending forth THE PROMISE (Holy Spirit) of My FATHER upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."John 14:16"And I (Jesus) will ask the FATHER and He will give you another HELPER (Holy Spirit), that He may be with you forever."John 15:26"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the FATHER, that is the SPIRIT oftruth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness of ME."John 16: 15"All things that the FATHER haas are MINE; therefore I said, that HE (Holy Spirit) takes of Mine, and will disclose it to you."Acts 2:32-33"This JESUS, GOD raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. Therefore having beenexalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the FATHER the promise of the HOLY SPIRIT, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."Acts 10:38"You know of JESUS of Nazareth, how GOD (Father) anointed Him with the HOLY SPIRIT."Romans 1:3-4"Concerning HIS (Father) Son...who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the SPIRIT of holiness, JESUS CHRIST our Lord."2 Corinthians 1:21-22"Now He who establishes us with you in CHRIST and anointed us is GOD (Father), who also sealed us and gave us the SPIRIT in our hearts as a pledgeGalatians 4:6"God has sent forth the SPIRIT of His SON into our hearts, crying, "Abba! FATHER!"Hebrews 9:14"How much more will the blood of CHRIST, who through the eternal SPIRIT offered Himself without blemish to GOD, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"1 Peter 1:2"According to the foreknowledge of GOD THE FATHER, by the sanctifying work of the SPIRIT, that you may obey JESUS CHRIST."MAY GOD OPEN OUR HEART, OUR MIND AND OUR SOUL TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORDS.AMENFROM WATT.​
     
  3. tim_from_pa

    tim_from_pa New Member

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    I believe in God's triune nature. How do we understand this? We can simply look at ourselves, who is created in God's likeness. Then again,. I like to build computers. We have three here in the house that I built. The computer also has a triune nature. The body, analogous to the hardware, the soul, analogous to the software (this makes the computer an "individual" as no two are alike), and the spirit, this is analogous to the power that runs it, for without power the computer is "dead".There is no clear line between body, soul and spirit as in a computer sometimes the software is partly hardware, and indeed the same software is contained in the power of the machine. They are 3 and yet one.
     
  4. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I do not like the word Trinity as it is not in the bible. But I love the word Godhead. And no, I do not look at God like 3 persons yet 1, but rather God has three different roles.Like this. I am a son (to my parents), a brother (to my borther and sisters), a cousin, uncle, grandson... Am I 5 persons? Or is it still referring a single person which is ME?
     
  5. waquinas

    waquinas New Member

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    Am guessing at least part of the problem the early Church had with a modal God (roles) and insisted on separate Persons is that it makes it difficult to see other characteristics of God and also has difficulty explaining passages indicating a plurality of persons. I think "let us make man", "go to my Father", "I will..send" the Spirit. "sits at the right hand of" all become difficult to understand if we are talking about one person. Having a modal God also makes particular traits of God impossible, especially when He is in one particular mode, Jesus. At least unless one starts speaking of God playing multiple roles at the same time which then kind of makes the whole concept break down. Which I think also is why it (modal or roles of God) was seen as an assault on the Divinity of Jesus and/or His Nature in that it either makes Him less of a man (or not a man at all), or God pulling the strings of a man's body, a puppet.
     
  6. tim_from_pa

    tim_from_pa New Member

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    (thesuperjag;56129)
    I do not like the word Trinity as it is not in the bible. But I love the word Godhead. And no, I do not look at God like 3 persons yet 1, but rather God has three different roles.Like this. I am a son (to my parents), a brother (to my borther and sisters), a cousin, uncle, grandson... Am I 5 persons? Or is it still referring a single person which is ME?
    What you embrace sounds something like modalism. http://www.carm.org/heresy/modalism.htmI realize that trinity is not in the bible and understanding the three-fold nature of God is difficult. So I am not so callous as to say that you are heretical based on the article that I posted here (I just posted it for info). I think the whole issue is how people understand things and sometimes it's different than other's way of understanding them. In other words, I think that people sometimes make too much of the Trinity thing and have people shaking in their boots for fear that God will send them off to the everlasting confines of hell just because they misunderstand God's nature.I think my computer analogy is somewhat good, before computers people used eggs. [​IMG]Like I said, we have to basically understand ourselves. Our bodies are not our souls and the soul is not the spirit, but the dividing line is not so clear and yet we are one whole person.
     
  7. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Tim_from_PA;56143)
    (thesuperjag;56129)
    I do not like the word Trinity as it is not in the bible. But I love the word Godhead. And no, I do not look at God like 3 persons yet 1, but rather God has three different roles.Like this. I am a son (to my parents), a brother (to my borther and sisters), a cousin, uncle, grandson... Am I 5 persons? Or is it still referring a single person which is ME?
    What you embrace sounds something like modalism. http://www.carm.org/heresy/modalism.htmI realize that trinity is not in the bible and understanding the three-fold nature of God is difficult. So I am not so callous as to say that you are heretical based on the article that I posted here (I just posted it for info). I think the whole issue is how people understand things and sometimes it's different than other's way of understanding them. In other words, I think that people sometimes make too much of the Trinity thing and have people shaking in their boots for fear that God will send them off to the everlasting confines of hell just because they misunderstand God's nature.I think my computer analogy is somewhat good, before computers people used eggs. [​IMG]Like I said, we have to basically understand ourselves. Our bodies are not our souls and the soul is not the spirit, but the dividing line is not so clear and yet we are one whole personI think I'll give it a shot once again. For me to say God is three people is like we are worshipping three Gods. The Father, the Word (Yeshua / Jesus), and the Holy Ghost, these three are one. (I John 5:7) If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. (John 14:9)When Yeshua walked on earth as God in the flesh, (John 1:1, John 1:14) When Christ had the Holy Spirit and the Father spake from Heaven saying, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, (Matthew 3:13-17) All three roles of God is there at that time.What I'm saying is, God is everywhere. The Father can not disagree with the Son. The Son can not disagree with the Father. The Holy Spirit can not disagree with the Son and the Father...... But Tim, Kriss, and I (as examples) can disagree with each other at any time. In short God is not confined to flesh like we are.It is true, that our soul is not our body, nor is the spirit our soul... in which I am totally in agreement. But how can we have a spirit (and even detect) if one doesn't have a soul? (And yes I caught this junk on Evanescence)And I understand just fine and am not going to accuse anyone either for people believe God is three persons since it is "hard" to understand the nature of God...because of our flesh minds.
     
  8. tim_from_pa

    tim_from_pa New Member

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    Yes, I understand what you are saying now, Superjag. I see God that way, too.
     
  9. watt

    watt New Member

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    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere I AM again to share with you all THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE(thesuperjag;56144)
    I think I'll give it a shot once again. For me to say God is three people is like we are worshipping three Gods. The Father, the Word (Yeshua / Jesus), and the Holy Ghost, these three are one. (I John 5:7) If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. (John 14:9)When Yeshua walked on earth as God in the flesh, (John 1:1, John 1:14) When Christ had the Holy Spirit and the Father spake from Heaven saying, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, (Matthew 3:13-17) All three roles of God is there at that time.What I'm saying is, God is everywhere. The Father can not disagree with the Son. The Son can not disagree with the Father. The Holy Spirit can not disagree with the Son and the Father...... But Tim, Kriss, and I (as examples) can disagree with each other at any time. In short God is not confined to flesh like we are.It is true, that our soul is not our body, nor is the spirit our soul... in which I am totally in agreement. But how can we have a spirit (and even detect) if one doesn't have a soul? (And yes I caught this junk on Evanescence)And I understand just fine and am not going to accuse anyone either for people believe God is three persons since it is "hard" to understand the nature of God...because of our flesh minds.
    Well that is your own doctrine, not from the Bible, Sorry!Now listen to THE WORD OF GOD and pray to the HOLY SPIRIT so that you will understand.THE TRUTH of THE TRINITY is here:John 14:26BUT THE COUNSELOR, THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME, WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS AND WILL REMIND YOU OF EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID TO YOU." See blue font!! THE FATHER,THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. Here, you find TRINITY.Refered to your post....Well my dear friend, that is your own understanding.GOD IS SPIRIT, HE IS ALMIGHTY but we are corrupted human-being knew nothing about THE MIND OF GOD. If we dont know THE MIND OF GOD how can we expect we know THE KINGDOM OF GOD. How can we expect we know THE TRUTH?That why as in JOHN 3:5-8JESUS REPLIED,TRULY, I SAY TO YOU: UNLESS ONE IS BORN AGAIN OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. WHAT IS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH, AND WHAT IS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.BECAUSE OF THIS, DONT BE SURPRISED WHEN I SAY: YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN FROM ABOVE.THE WIND BLOWS WHERE IT PLEASES AND YOU HEAR IT SOUND, BUT YOU DONT KNOW WHERE IT COMES FROM OR WHERE IT IS GOING. IT IS LIKE THAT WITH EVERYONE WHO IS BORN OF SPIRIT.If you claim that you are a CHRISTIAN, then FOLLOW ALL JESUS COMMANDMENT, you will find THE TRUTH OF THE FATHER, OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.AMENFROM WATT.
     
  10. Sola_Scriptura

    Sola_Scriptura New Member

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    The Trinity is a very hard topic. And I'm very unsure on this subject. However, let's remember not to let this doctrine divide us, as God's children and Christ's beloved Bride, Whether or not God is three Persons, God is still God. His Being is indivisible and unchanging. Even if the doctrine is not true, Jesus is still our mighty God, our Saviour, and our Lord.Let's look at both views on this:The Trinity states that God is three Persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) in one divine essence (God). To support their belief, Trinitarians look to a few passages from the Bible, such as-Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."-Jesus' baptism: Mark 1:9-11 "And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness."In this doctrine, the Persons of the Trinity are in perfect fellowship with each other. They never disagree with each other because, since all three Persons are God, they have the same powerful Word.But other people, those who don't agree with the Trinity, believe God is one Person. A passage that is used to support God's oneness is in the book of Revelation, where John sees the One that sat on the throne, who is so beautiful and radiant that he is "to look upon like a jasper and sardine stone" (Rev. 4:3).John later introduces the slain Lamb (Jesus Christ). In Revelation 5, the Lamb is described as the One on the throne (v6) and he is worshiped (v9). God and the Lamb have the same throne (Rev. 22:1). The trouble is is that, for those who believe in the Trinity, whether the One on the throne is the Father or the Son.This can be looked at in two ways:Trinitarian: Perhaps "God" and "the throne" are being ascribed to the second Person of the Trinity (Jesus) in the book of Revelation, since it is "the Revelation of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 1:1).Non-Trinitarian: God and the Lamb are one Person. God is God, the Lamb, and the Lion. Again, the Trinity is a very hard subject to understand, and it might take a lot of study in God's Word. Let's turn to God, and ask him to help us understand this situation. Let's keep in mind that whether God is three Persons or not, it does not diminish who he is. He is our Lord, Saviour, and mighty God.May our Sovereign Lord bless each of you
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I believe what is meant by this is We are made in the image of God we are three in one.. flesh body, soul,sprit. each part is separate but also makes up the whole. Another excellent example shown me is the egg...shell,white,yolk ...three parts all complete to themselves separately combined to make a whole.
     
  12. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    (kriss;57393)
    I believe what is meant by this is We are made in the image of God we are three in one.. flesh body, soul,sprit. each part is separate but also makes up the whole. Another excellent example shown me is the egg...shell,white,yolk ...three parts all complete to themselves separately combined to make a whole.
    well in the battle for the best trinity definition ( which is possibly the hardest thing to define in the christian faith) I have always prefered comparing it to water water can be three things, a liquid, ice, or a gas, three seperate "beings" and yet they are all still h2o.
     
  13. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    There is no Trinity and neither is There any Oneness. If the Godhead can be closely explained as biblically possible, then it's in between the Trinity and Oneness. I'm not a modalist, But Jesus Christ, the JEHOVAH of the New Testament, is Manifested in Three Offices, NOT PERSONS. As the Father in Creation, The Son in Redemption He was the First Creation of God, the Pillar of Fire when God said Let there be light, that was the beginning and that Was Jesus Christ. In Holy Ghost Form. They play Three Roles, neither of them synonymous to the Other.God the Father, as God above usGod the Son, God manifested with UsGod the Holy Ghost, God in his ChurchALL THE SAME JESUS CHRIST, not three in One, or Rather One in the Office of Three.I've used this analogy before. I'm a son, an uncle and a Cousin, Three DIFFERENT TITLES One Person!The Godhead is not a trinity or oneness belief, HE IS THE FULLNESS Jesus Christ Colossians 2:9
     
  14. waquinas

    waquinas New Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism[
    "In Christianity, Sabellianism (also known as modalism, modalistic monarchianism, or modal monarchism) is the nontrinitarian belief that the Heavenly Father, Resurrected Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one God, as perceived by the believer, rather than three distinct persons in God Himself."​
    While modern Oneness Pentacostalism may claim a distinction from ancient modalism, am not sure there is as much a difference as some would like to claim
     
  15. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    You can call them modalists, Oneness, or Sabellianists but one thing for Sure, I believe Jesus Christ is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Not Three Different Persons in One, But God working in Three Offices or Titles NEITHER OF THEM Distinct from each other.The Difference between What I believe and what the Modalists and Oneness Pentecostals believe, is that I believe THAT JESUS CHRIST HAD A BEGINNING. Because of his "SONSHIP".
     
  16. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;58686)
    .... I believe THAT JESUS CHRIST HAD A BEGINNING. Because of his "SONSHIP".
    Then you are saying that Jesus is less than God. I don't buy that at all!
     
  17. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    Here Brother Let us Reason Isaiah 1:18He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (Colossians 1:15)In John 1:1 IT SAYS IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD(JESUS CHRIST), AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD(IN THE THOUGHTS OF ELOHIM), AND THE WORD(JESUS CHRIST) WAS GOD.What's the Beginning of God's Creation, Light Genesis 1:3, and this wasn't any ordinary light, IT WAS THE BEGINNING OF GOD'S CREATION, THROUGH THE WORD, and This was the Pillar of Fire. The Same Light that would lead the Children of Israel in the Night, and the Same Light that Blinded Paul on his Journey to Damascus. In Eternity IT WAS ELOHIM(Self Existing One) HE WAS NOT GOD YET he was ELOHIM(TRUE GOD OR LORD) yet because he wasn't the Ruler or the Center of Worship. Rather El Elau Elohim, the Self Existing One. He lived in Eternity, but when he decided that for his own Glory he would create, then his Thoughts which were Expressed(THE WORD OF GOD) brought forth Life. ELOHIM was from Eternity, The Corporeal Body and Jesus Christ had a Beginning.Revelation 22:13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.The Beginning, The 1st.Eternity never had a beginning brother
     
  18. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    What does Jesus mean then, that He is the last? He is the first, yes, but also the last. he is the beginning, yes, but also the end.If you believe that 1st or beginning insinuates one's creation, then what do you do with "last" and "end"? I believe you are making a mistake by bringing this into the finite and making a finite conclusion on what is understood by most Christians (and I believe true)--Jesus doesn't have a beginning, but He always has been. You already stated you don't believe that, but I suppose that is what makes it a matter of interpretation... because Revelation 22 doesn't say Jesus was created. He is the first, and the last, the beginning, and the end. He has been, and always will be.
     
  19. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    In ETERNITY Jesus Christ was El Elau Elohim, WITH NO SPACE AND TIME, HE WAS KNOWN AS THE SELF EXISTING ONE.Now Elohim, wanted to Express him self, and if you look @ the Definition of word, IT'LL SAY THOUGHT EXPRESSED. So in the Thoughts of Elohim, the Eternal being, was his Word. When he expressed his thoughts were expressed, his Word came forth which brought Life and began the creation. Jesus Christ is Eternal as the Father, but the Manifestation was the Beginning of God's Creation.Jesus Christ the being is Eternal God, but the Manifestation of the Thoughts of Elohim expressed are the Beginning. Jesus the WORD had a Beginning.
     
  20. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    Unorthodox Christian,I dissagree with your Theology of the Trinity. I do not have the time to argue with you.
     
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