The Truth About Born Again Christians
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I really did not understand it until now.
Thanks for the information lovely people.. you help so many!
seguro de salud
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FIATC
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Thanks for the information lovely people.. you help so many!
seguro de salud
seguro médico
seguro médico privado
FIATC
noticias salud
seguro médico familiar
seguro médico mas barato
mejor seguro de salud
mejor seguro médico
seguros para empresas
colectivos de salud
cuadro médico
the answer is a. b means one is not born again.
to be born again of the spirit means one is seeking to know Christ more each day, to cme to know him does happen over time. the point raised would be where people come to be challenged by the truth, either they accept or resist until they overcome, or they decide to abandon the truth.
to be born again of the spirit means one is seeking to know Christ more each day, to cme to know him does happen over time. the point raised would be where people come to be challenged by the truth, either they accept or resist until they overcome, or they decide to abandon the truth.
John 3:3-12
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." 9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?" 10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
The word baptism is not mentioned in this discussion.
This discussion is about birth.
The natural birth, - For flesh gives birth to flesh.
The spiritual birth, - Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Baptism is a sign of death and resurrection, not birth.
Being baptized in NATURAL WATER has nothing to do with spiritual birth, for Spirit gives birth to spirit.
You can talk all that papal doctrine mumbo jumbo nonsense you want, however it won't change the word of God and what is clearly written.
Jesus said - If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
The earthly thing is referring to Natural Child Birth!
Being baptized in water comes after your are born again.
JLB
Agreed. May I expand a little? This is for anyone it concerns.
When natural birth is about to take place, the water breaks. This is a well known term. There are two types of birth mentioned in the passage; water and spirit.
In other places, we find the word 'seed' used. A seed carries the life and nature of a species. I was physically born of my parents' seed. But in the new birth, I was born of His seed (1Pet.1:23). However, the part of me that was born at that time was my spirit. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit, as you have correctly said.
So the new birth is about getting a new spirit that is offspring of God. Birth is about reproduction. This is nothing short of our becoming the same species as Jesus Himself. His life and nature have been imparted into us. However, we have this treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7). We have the life and nature of our earthly parents in our flesh, and the life and nature of Christ in our spirit. Therefore, the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. We are torn between the new and the old.
The part of our being that is the neutral ground is our soul. The soul lives in an earthly vessel, or tent, as described in 2Cor.5. But if this tent is destroyed, we have another one, eternal in the heavens, as it says. This other tent must by default, be our spirit. We are body, soul, and spirit. So it makes sense that our spirit is merely the spiritual equivalent to our physical body...each one carrying the life and nature of its species. In our minds (phsyche...soul), we can choose to walk according to the one nature or the other. We are told to put off the old man and put on the new man.." which was created according to God in righteousness and true holiness" (Eph.4:22-24).
The part of me that is doing the putting off and putting on, is my soul. My soul was not born again. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. On that note, it is often said that the new birth is about receiveing the Holy Spirit. However, this is illogical. The Spirit is not born of Himself. He births something that is of Him, our out of Him, as it were. This is what birth is. Reproduction. (However, in our case, we do not inherit His glory, which is His omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence.)
As well, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is seperate and different than the new birth. Though this can certainly take place at the same time, it does not always. In my case it happened later. The new wine first needs a new wineskin.
So, the born again experience is not what some have claimed on this topic. It is not merely a lifestyle. It is not merely a work. It is not merely a behavior. It is first and foremost, a new creation (2Cor.5:17). And until the resurrection, when our new body will reflect the properties of both flesh and spirit, as in Jesus' resurrection, until then we all have our individual walk with God, each bearing his own fruit and demonstration of the new life within.
We have seen many who compare others with themselves in order to make determinations or judgments about their state. This is not our mandate. Not everyone will bear the same measure of fruit or recieve the same rewards at the judgment seat of Christ. But we will all get to the same desitnation by way of the new birth. " Ye must be born again".. Amen Blessings, Howie
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
It's a pity there is so much disagreement among Christians as to the nature
of the regeneration about which the Lord spoke at John 3:3-8 because this is
one of the supernatural components of Christianity that is neither an option
nor a recommendation-- on the contrary, regeneration is a must: and that's
what makes this aspect of Christianity a very crucial factor in people's safety
when they pass on to the other side.
†. John 3:3 . . Jesus answered and said to him: Most assuredly, I say to you,
unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
†. John 3:7 . . Do not be mystified that I said to you: You must be born
again.
Well; it's certainly no mystery to me why regeneration is a must.
†. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.
The Bible's heaven is a place of peace. If earth-born people were allowed to
go there with human nature, it would only be a matter of time before heaven
were turned into another living hell like the one we have on earth now; which
is the reason why it's sometimes said: heaven is a place prepared for a
prepared people.
Regeneration isn't synonymous with renovation; which is just a make-over.
No; regeneration isn't a make-over; it's a do-over; for example: when Las
Vegas real estate mogul Steve Wynn set about to construct the fabulous
Bellagio hotel complex, he didn't bother with remodeling the Dunes hotel
complex to accomplish his dream; but instead thoroughly demolished the
Dunes, carted off the rubble, and built the Bellagio from the ground up.
That's regeneration. It's not only a do-over, but the result itself is a
completely new complex.
†. 2Cor 5:17 . . If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: old things have
passed away; behold, all things have become new.
I think that the root cause of most of the disagreement among Christians as
to the nature of regeneration is that nobody can see the results; the reason
being that according to John 3:6 the product is supernatural; viz: it's
invisible. The original hotel on the Bellagio site is gone; but my original
human body, and my original human nature both still exist so that I can't
walk up to somebody and say: Hey look at me! Notice anything different?
No, nothing's different. There's a Bellagio Cliff in there somewhere but the
only Cliff that people can see for themselves is the Dunes Cliff; and that's
because the "old things" may have passed away on the books; but they are
still very much alive on the hoof.
Adding to the confusion is that Bellagio Cliff never sins.
†. 1John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed
remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
While Dunes Cliff is a habitual sinner.
†. 1John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
the truth is not in us. . . . If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a
liar, and His word is not in us.
Since Dunes Cliff is the only Cliff that people can see for themselves; then
that leaves me with like zero empirical evidence for the existence of Bellagio
Cliff. Even if people never go inside Wynn's stunning Bellagio, they can always
stand outside and admire it's grandeur and watch that incredible fountain go
through its paces to produce the most amazing water show on earth. But
Bellagio Cliff is invisible; and people not only can't go inside for a looky-loo,
but they can't even tell he's there because Dunes Cliff is blocking their view.
Cliff
/
It's a pity there is so much disagreement among Christians as to the nature
of the regeneration about which the Lord spoke at John 3:3-8 because this is
one of the supernatural components of Christianity that is neither an option
nor a recommendation-- on the contrary, regeneration is a must: and that's
what makes this aspect of Christianity a very crucial factor in people's safety
when they pass on to the other side.
†. John 3:3 . . Jesus answered and said to him: Most assuredly, I say to you,
unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
†. John 3:7 . . Do not be mystified that I said to you: You must be born
again.
Well; it's certainly no mystery to me why regeneration is a must.
†. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.
The Bible's heaven is a place of peace. If earth-born people were allowed to
go there with human nature, it would only be a matter of time before heaven
were turned into another living hell like the one we have on earth now; which
is the reason why it's sometimes said: heaven is a place prepared for a
prepared people.
Regeneration isn't synonymous with renovation; which is just a make-over.
No; regeneration isn't a make-over; it's a do-over; for example: when Las
Vegas real estate mogul Steve Wynn set about to construct the fabulous
Bellagio hotel complex, he didn't bother with remodeling the Dunes hotel
complex to accomplish his dream; but instead thoroughly demolished the
Dunes, carted off the rubble, and built the Bellagio from the ground up.
That's regeneration. It's not only a do-over, but the result itself is a
completely new complex.
†. 2Cor 5:17 . . If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: old things have
passed away; behold, all things have become new.
I think that the root cause of most of the disagreement among Christians as
to the nature of regeneration is that nobody can see the results; the reason
being that according to John 3:6 the product is supernatural; viz: it's
invisible. The original hotel on the Bellagio site is gone; but my original
human body, and my original human nature both still exist so that I can't
walk up to somebody and say: Hey look at me! Notice anything different?
No, nothing's different. There's a Bellagio Cliff in there somewhere but the
only Cliff that people can see for themselves is the Dunes Cliff; and that's
because the "old things" may have passed away on the books; but they are
still very much alive on the hoof.
Adding to the confusion is that Bellagio Cliff never sins.
†. 1John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed
remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
While Dunes Cliff is a habitual sinner.
†. 1John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
the truth is not in us. . . . If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a
liar, and His word is not in us.
Since Dunes Cliff is the only Cliff that people can see for themselves; then
that leaves me with like zero empirical evidence for the existence of Bellagio
Cliff. Even if people never go inside Wynn's stunning Bellagio, they can always
stand outside and admire it's grandeur and watch that incredible fountain go
through its paces to produce the most amazing water show on earth. But
Bellagio Cliff is invisible; and people not only can't go inside for a looky-loo,
but they can't even tell he's there because Dunes Cliff is blocking their view.
Cliff
/
To be born of water refers to natural birth - for flesh gives birth to flesh.
To be born of The Spirit refers to spiritual birth ie "born again" - For Spirit gives birth to spirit.
It's that simple.
JLB
Yes it is very simple. Let's start with-' 'when Jesus was baptized"-
John 1:32 - when Jesus was baptized, He was baptized in the water and the Spirit, which descended upon Him in the form of a dove. The Holy Spirit and water are required for baptism. Also, Jesus’ baptism was not the Christian baptism He later instituted. Jesus’ baptism was instead a royal anointing of the Son of David (Jesus) conferred by a Levite (John the Baptist) to reveal Christ to Israel, as it was foreshadowed in 1 Kings 1:39 when the Son of David (Solomon) was anointed by the Levitical priest Zadok. See John 1:31; . Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:9; Luke 3:21.
John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." When Jesus said "water and the Spirit," He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).
John 3:22 - after teaching on baptism, John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptized. Jesus' teaching about being reborn by water and the Spirit is in the context of baptism.
From John Salza of Scriptural Catholic
Baptism = Burial and death
Romans 6:4
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Paul the Apostle - writer of the New Testament
Baptism is about death and resurrection not about birth.
Being born or water refers to natural child birth - for flesh gives birth to flesh.
JLB
Post #49 is correct. There was no mention of baptism in John 3. The context does not confirm your interpretation concerning water. This is a seperate debate, concerning the necessity of water baptism. It is not as requirement for the new birth or for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. There are examples in scripture that show those who recieved the Holy Spirit prior to or in the absence of water baptism.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
FAQ : The Spirit of John 3:5 is easy enough to figure out; but what's the
water?
The water is commonly assumed ritual baptism. But it's actually water for
drinking rather than for bathing; and it isn't natural water at all; but rather:
supernatural.
†. John 4:10 . . Jesus answered and said to her: If you knew the gift of God,
and who is saying to you "Give me a drink" you would have asked him and
he would have given you living water.
†. John 4:14 . . Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.
†. Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say come! Let the hearer say come!
Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the
gift of life-giving water.
In other words: everyone is born the first time with human life. When people
undergo regeneration, they're born with eternal life.
FAQ : If born-again Christians are regenerated with eternal life; then why do
they still die?
They die because they don't have immortality yet; for example: Christ had
eternal life.
†. John 5:26 . . For as the Father has life in himself, so He has granted the
Son to have life in himself.
But the Lord didn't obtain immortality until his resurrection
†. Rom 6:9 . . For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he
cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Born-again Christians expect to be immortal in their own resurrections.
†. 1Cor 15:51-54 . . Behold, I show you a mystery: we shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the
last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this
corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on
immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death
is swallowed up in victory.
FAQ : Well; if eternal life isn't immortality; then what is it?
Scientists have been trying to create life for as long as I can remember; and
they will never succeed because they think all that's needed is a
combination of the right ingredients; for example: amino acids, water,
carbon, and protein. However, life isn't physical; it's metaphysical: which can
be defined as a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses; viz: life is
supernatural.
Adam was a combination of the right ingredients when God created him; but
the first man lay there a corpse until God made him a sentient being by
means of a mysterious force called the breath of life. That breath isn't
something you can produce in a laboratory. In other words: to bring
something to life, you need a source of life to do it because life isn't
spontaneous; viz: it takes life to produce life; which is something we could
legitimately, and sensibly label: the God factor.
When God created Adam, he came into being with human life; which is a
kind of life that produces human nature; viz: human life is what makes it
possible for humans to act, think, and feel like people. God's life is eternal
life; which is a kind of life that produces divine nature; viz: that which makes
God act, think, and feel like Himself. The simplest way I can define eternal
life's role in the process of regeneration, is that by sharing His kind of life
with humans; God makes it possible for them to act, think, and feel no
longer like people, but to act, think, and feel like Himself.
†. 2Pet 1:2-4 . . Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the
knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has given us
everything we need for life and God-likeness through our knowledge of Him
who called us by His own glory and goodness. Through these He has given
us His very great and precious promises, so that through them you may
participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world
caused by evil desires.
I've actually been accused of blasphemy for believing the above-- by
Christians no less --because my depiction of regeneration appears to
produce gods; but it doesn't produce gods, nor is it intended to produce
gods-- it produces humans with God-likeness. They're still human, and
they're still creatures; just more in their creator's image than ever before.
Note : Christ is the Almighty's designated eternal life distributor.
†. John 17:2 . .You have given him authority over all flesh, that he should
give eternal life to as many as you have given Him.
†. John 4:10 . . If you knew the gift of God . . . you would have asked him
and he would have given you living water.
Cliff
/.
FAQ : The Spirit of John 3:5 is easy enough to figure out; but what's the
water?
The water is commonly assumed ritual baptism. But it's actually water for
drinking rather than for bathing; and it isn't natural water at all; but rather:
supernatural.
†. John 4:10 . . Jesus answered and said to her: If you knew the gift of God,
and who is saying to you "Give me a drink" you would have asked him and
he would have given you living water.
†. John 4:14 . . Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.
†. Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say come! Let the hearer say come!
Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the
gift of life-giving water.
In other words: everyone is born the first time with human life. When people
undergo regeneration, they're born with eternal life.
FAQ : If born-again Christians are regenerated with eternal life; then why do
they still die?
They die because they don't have immortality yet; for example: Christ had
eternal life.
†. John 5:26 . . For as the Father has life in himself, so He has granted the
Son to have life in himself.
But the Lord didn't obtain immortality until his resurrection
†. Rom 6:9 . . For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he
cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Born-again Christians expect to be immortal in their own resurrections.
†. 1Cor 15:51-54 . . Behold, I show you a mystery: we shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the
last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this
corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on
immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death
is swallowed up in victory.
FAQ : Well; if eternal life isn't immortality; then what is it?
Scientists have been trying to create life for as long as I can remember; and
they will never succeed because they think all that's needed is a
combination of the right ingredients; for example: amino acids, water,
carbon, and protein. However, life isn't physical; it's metaphysical: which can
be defined as a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses; viz: life is
supernatural.
Adam was a combination of the right ingredients when God created him; but
the first man lay there a corpse until God made him a sentient being by
means of a mysterious force called the breath of life. That breath isn't
something you can produce in a laboratory. In other words: to bring
something to life, you need a source of life to do it because life isn't
spontaneous; viz: it takes life to produce life; which is something we could
legitimately, and sensibly label: the God factor.
When God created Adam, he came into being with human life; which is a
kind of life that produces human nature; viz: human life is what makes it
possible for humans to act, think, and feel like people. God's life is eternal
life; which is a kind of life that produces divine nature; viz: that which makes
God act, think, and feel like Himself. The simplest way I can define eternal
life's role in the process of regeneration, is that by sharing His kind of life
with humans; God makes it possible for them to act, think, and feel no
longer like people, but to act, think, and feel like Himself.
†. 2Pet 1:2-4 . . Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the
knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has given us
everything we need for life and God-likeness through our knowledge of Him
who called us by His own glory and goodness. Through these He has given
us His very great and precious promises, so that through them you may
participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world
caused by evil desires.
I've actually been accused of blasphemy for believing the above-- by
Christians no less --because my depiction of regeneration appears to
produce gods; but it doesn't produce gods, nor is it intended to produce
gods-- it produces humans with God-likeness. They're still human, and
they're still creatures; just more in their creator's image than ever before.
Note : Christ is the Almighty's designated eternal life distributor.
†. John 17:2 . .You have given him authority over all flesh, that he should
give eternal life to as many as you have given Him.
†. John 4:10 . . If you knew the gift of God . . . you would have asked him
and he would have given you living water.
Cliff
/.
1st Peter 3:21 says,
21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-
not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal
to God for a good conscience -through the
resurrection of Jesus Christ,
It saves you by obedience to the Word. If you don't get baptised, how
will you receive a good conscience towards the obedience to the Word?
Acts 10:47-48 says,
47 "[sup] [/sup]Surely no one can refuse the water for these to
be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just
as we did, can he?"
48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name
of Jesus Christ.
The name of Jesus is what washes away your sins (Acts 4:12). That is
how the name is applied and it represents a new beginning in Christ
Jesus (Romans 6:3-6).
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been
baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into
His death ?
4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through
baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised
from the dead through the glory of the Father, so
we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have become united with Him in the
likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in
the likeness of His resurrection,
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with
Him, in order that our body of sin might be done
away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to
sin ;
In essence, we have been identified with Christ in His death, burial and
resurrection when we apply His name in baptism. Acts 22:16 says,
16 'Now why do you delay ? Get up and be baptized,
and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'
Notice what Ananias told Paul, by calling on the name of Jesus in baptism,
it will wash away his sins. I didn't say that, but Ananias sure did, so if you
want to get mad about what you are seeing, get mad @ Ananias. Let's look
@ some more scripture (Acts 19:3-5).
3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized ?"
And they said, "Into John's baptism."
4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of
repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who
was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the
name of the Lord Jesus.
They had already been baptised, but what was the difference? What had
been said made the difference, in the name of the Lord Jesus. That's where
the blood is. Paul said, anything you do in word or deed, do all in the name
of Jesus (Colossians 3:17).
We could go on and on, but if you don't believe by now, God just hasn't given
you eyes to see and ears to hear and a heart to understand. So I will leave you
with one last scripture (Acts 8:12).
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the
good news about the kingdom of God and the
name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized,
men and women alike.
Wonder what Philip was teaching them?
What a God! What a Plan!
Logabe
21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-
not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal
to God for a good conscience -through the
resurrection of Jesus Christ,
It saves you by obedience to the Word. If you don't get baptised, how
will you receive a good conscience towards the obedience to the Word?
Acts 10:47-48 says,
47 "[sup] [/sup]Surely no one can refuse the water for these to
be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just
as we did, can he?"
48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name
of Jesus Christ.
The name of Jesus is what washes away your sins (Acts 4:12). That is
how the name is applied and it represents a new beginning in Christ
Jesus (Romans 6:3-6).
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been
baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into
His death ?
4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through
baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised
from the dead through the glory of the Father, so
we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have become united with Him in the
likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in
the likeness of His resurrection,
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with
Him, in order that our body of sin might be done
away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to
sin ;
In essence, we have been identified with Christ in His death, burial and
resurrection when we apply His name in baptism. Acts 22:16 says,
16 'Now why do you delay ? Get up and be baptized,
and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'
Notice what Ananias told Paul, by calling on the name of Jesus in baptism,
it will wash away his sins. I didn't say that, but Ananias sure did, so if you
want to get mad about what you are seeing, get mad @ Ananias. Let's look
@ some more scripture (Acts 19:3-5).
3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized ?"
And they said, "Into John's baptism."
4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of
repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who
was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the
name of the Lord Jesus.
They had already been baptised, but what was the difference? What had
been said made the difference, in the name of the Lord Jesus. That's where
the blood is. Paul said, anything you do in word or deed, do all in the name
of Jesus (Colossians 3:17).
We could go on and on, but if you don't believe by now, God just hasn't given
you eyes to see and ears to hear and a heart to understand. So I will leave you
with one last scripture (Acts 8:12).
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the
good news about the kingdom of God and the
name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized,
men and women alike.
Wonder what Philip was teaching them?
What a God! What a Plan!
Logabe
John 3:3,5 - unless we are "born again" of water and Spirit in baptism, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The Greek word for the phrase "born again" is "anothen" which literally means “begotten from above.” See, for example, John 3:31 where "anothen" is so used. Baptism brings about salvation, not just a symbolism of our salvation.
Acts 8:12-13; 36; 10:47 - if belief is all one needs to be saved, why is everyone instantly baptized after learning of Jesus?
Acts 16:15; 31-33; 18:8; 19:2,5 - these texts present more examples of people learning of Jesus, and then immediately being baptized. If accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior is all one needs to do to be saved, then why does everyone in the early Church immediately seek baptism?
Acts 9:18 - Paul, even though he was directly chosen by Christ and immediately converted to Christianity, still had to be baptized to be forgiven his sin. This is a powerful text which demonstrates the salvific efficacy of water baptism, even for those who decide to give their lives to Christ.
Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins," even though Paul was converted directly by Jesus Christ. This proves that Paul's acceptance of Jesus as personal Lord and Savior was not enough to be forgiven of his sin and saved. The sacrament of baptism is required.
Acts 22:16 - further, Ananias' phrase "wash away" comes from the Greek word "apolouo." "Apolouo" means an actual cleansing which removes sin. It is not a symbolic covering up of sin. Even though Jesus chose Paul directly in a heavenly revelation, Paul had to be baptized to have his sins washed away.
Rom. 6:4 - in baptism, we actually die with Christ so that we, like Him, might be raised to newness of life. This means that, by virtue of our baptism, our sufferings are not in vain. They are joined to Christ and become efficacious for our salvation.
1 Cor. 6:11 - Paul says they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, in reference to baptism. The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification, which proves baptism is not just symbolic.
Gal. 3:27 - whoever is baptized in Christ puts on Christ. Putting on Christ is not just symbolic. Christ actually dwells within our soul.
Col. 2:12 - in baptism, we literally die with Christ and are raised with Christ. It is a supernatural reality, not just a symbolic ritual. The Scriptures never refer to baptism as symbolic.
Titus 3:5-7 – “He saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs of eternal life.” This is a powerful text which proves that baptism regenerates our souls and is thus salvific. The “washing of regeneration” “saves us.” Regeneration is never symbolic, and the phrase “saved us” refers to salvation. By baptism, we become justified by His grace (interior change) and heirs of eternal life (filial adoption). Because this refers to baptism, the verse is about the beginning of the life in Christ. No righteous deeds done before baptism could save us. Righteous deeds after baptism are necessary for our salvation.
There is also a definite parallel between John 3:5 and Titus 3:5: (1) John 3:5 – enter the kingdom of God / Titus 3:5 – He saved us. (2) John 3:5 – born of water / Titus 3:5 – washing. (3) John 3:5 – born of the Spirit / Titus 3:5 – renewal in the Spirit.
Heb. 10:22 - in baptism, our hearts are sprinkled clean from an evil conscience (again, dealing with the interior of the person) as our bodies are washed with pure water (the waters of baptism). Baptism regenerates us because it removes original sin, sanctifies our souls, and effects our adoption as sons and daughters in Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 3:21 - Peter expressly writes that “baptism, corresponding to Noah's ark, now saves you; not as a removal of dirt from the body, but for a clear conscience. “ Hence, the verse demonstrates that baptism is salvific (it saves us), and deals with the interior life of the person (purifying the conscience, like Heb. 10:22), and not the external life (removing dirt from the body). Many scholars believe the phrase "not as a removal of dirt from the body" is in reference to the Jewish ceremony of circumcision (but, at a minimum, shows that baptism is not about the exterior, but interior life). Baptism is now the “circumcision” of the new Covenant (Col. 2:11-12), but it, unlike the old circumcision, actually saves us, as Noah and his family were saved by water.
Again, notice the parallel between Heb. 10:22 and 1 Peter 3:21: (1) Heb. 10:22 – draw near to the sanctuary (heaven) / 1 Peter 3:21 – now saves us. (2) Heb. 10:22 – sprinkled clean, washed with pure water / 1 Peter 3:20-21 – saved through water, baptism. (3) Heb. 10:22 – from an evil conscience (interior) / 1 Peter 3:21 – for a clear conscience (interior). Titus 3:6 and 1 Peter 3:21 also specifically say the grace and power of baptism comes “through Jesus Christ” (who transforms our inner nature).
Mark 16:16 - Jesus says that he who believes and is baptized will be saved. However, the Church has always taught that baptism is a normative, not an absolute necessity. There are some exceptions to the rule because God is not bound by His sacraments.
Luke 23:43 - the good thief, although not baptized, shows that there is also a baptism by desire, as Jesus says to him that he will be in paradise. It should also be noted that when Jesus uses the word "paradise," He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew "sheol" meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord's resurrection. Hence, the good thief was destined for heaven because of his desire to be with Jesus.
Matt. 20:22-23; Mark 10:38-39; Luke 12:50 - there is also a baptism by blood. Lord says, "I have a baptism to be baptized with" referring to His death. Hence, the Church has always taught that those martyred for the faith may be saved without water baptism (e.g., the Holy Innocents).
Mark 10:38 - Jesus says "are you able...to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?," referring to His death.
1 John 5:6 - Jesus came by water and blood. He was baptized by both water and blood. Martyrs are baptized by blood.
Acts 8:12-13; 36; 10:47 - if belief is all one needs to be saved, why is everyone instantly baptized after learning of Jesus?
Acts 16:15; 31-33; 18:8; 19:2,5 - these texts present more examples of people learning of Jesus, and then immediately being baptized. If accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior is all one needs to do to be saved, then why does everyone in the early Church immediately seek baptism?
Acts 9:18 - Paul, even though he was directly chosen by Christ and immediately converted to Christianity, still had to be baptized to be forgiven his sin. This is a powerful text which demonstrates the salvific efficacy of water baptism, even for those who decide to give their lives to Christ.
Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins," even though Paul was converted directly by Jesus Christ. This proves that Paul's acceptance of Jesus as personal Lord and Savior was not enough to be forgiven of his sin and saved. The sacrament of baptism is required.
Acts 22:16 - further, Ananias' phrase "wash away" comes from the Greek word "apolouo." "Apolouo" means an actual cleansing which removes sin. It is not a symbolic covering up of sin. Even though Jesus chose Paul directly in a heavenly revelation, Paul had to be baptized to have his sins washed away.
Rom. 6:4 - in baptism, we actually die with Christ so that we, like Him, might be raised to newness of life. This means that, by virtue of our baptism, our sufferings are not in vain. They are joined to Christ and become efficacious for our salvation.
1 Cor. 6:11 - Paul says they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, in reference to baptism. The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification, which proves baptism is not just symbolic.
Gal. 3:27 - whoever is baptized in Christ puts on Christ. Putting on Christ is not just symbolic. Christ actually dwells within our soul.
Col. 2:12 - in baptism, we literally die with Christ and are raised with Christ. It is a supernatural reality, not just a symbolic ritual. The Scriptures never refer to baptism as symbolic.
Titus 3:5-7 – “He saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs of eternal life.” This is a powerful text which proves that baptism regenerates our souls and is thus salvific. The “washing of regeneration” “saves us.” Regeneration is never symbolic, and the phrase “saved us” refers to salvation. By baptism, we become justified by His grace (interior change) and heirs of eternal life (filial adoption). Because this refers to baptism, the verse is about the beginning of the life in Christ. No righteous deeds done before baptism could save us. Righteous deeds after baptism are necessary for our salvation.
There is also a definite parallel between John 3:5 and Titus 3:5: (1) John 3:5 – enter the kingdom of God / Titus 3:5 – He saved us. (2) John 3:5 – born of water / Titus 3:5 – washing. (3) John 3:5 – born of the Spirit / Titus 3:5 – renewal in the Spirit.
Heb. 10:22 - in baptism, our hearts are sprinkled clean from an evil conscience (again, dealing with the interior of the person) as our bodies are washed with pure water (the waters of baptism). Baptism regenerates us because it removes original sin, sanctifies our souls, and effects our adoption as sons and daughters in Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 3:21 - Peter expressly writes that “baptism, corresponding to Noah's ark, now saves you; not as a removal of dirt from the body, but for a clear conscience. “ Hence, the verse demonstrates that baptism is salvific (it saves us), and deals with the interior life of the person (purifying the conscience, like Heb. 10:22), and not the external life (removing dirt from the body). Many scholars believe the phrase "not as a removal of dirt from the body" is in reference to the Jewish ceremony of circumcision (but, at a minimum, shows that baptism is not about the exterior, but interior life). Baptism is now the “circumcision” of the new Covenant (Col. 2:11-12), but it, unlike the old circumcision, actually saves us, as Noah and his family were saved by water.
Again, notice the parallel between Heb. 10:22 and 1 Peter 3:21: (1) Heb. 10:22 – draw near to the sanctuary (heaven) / 1 Peter 3:21 – now saves us. (2) Heb. 10:22 – sprinkled clean, washed with pure water / 1 Peter 3:20-21 – saved through water, baptism. (3) Heb. 10:22 – from an evil conscience (interior) / 1 Peter 3:21 – for a clear conscience (interior). Titus 3:6 and 1 Peter 3:21 also specifically say the grace and power of baptism comes “through Jesus Christ” (who transforms our inner nature).
Mark 16:16 - Jesus says that he who believes and is baptized will be saved. However, the Church has always taught that baptism is a normative, not an absolute necessity. There are some exceptions to the rule because God is not bound by His sacraments.
Luke 23:43 - the good thief, although not baptized, shows that there is also a baptism by desire, as Jesus says to him that he will be in paradise. It should also be noted that when Jesus uses the word "paradise," He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew "sheol" meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord's resurrection. Hence, the good thief was destined for heaven because of his desire to be with Jesus.
Matt. 20:22-23; Mark 10:38-39; Luke 12:50 - there is also a baptism by blood. Lord says, "I have a baptism to be baptized with" referring to His death. Hence, the Church has always taught that those martyred for the faith may be saved without water baptism (e.g., the Holy Innocents).
Mark 10:38 - Jesus says "are you able...to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?," referring to His death.
1 John 5:6 - Jesus came by water and blood. He was baptized by both water and blood. Martyrs are baptized by blood.
Okay, it is crystal clear you do not understand this scripture, so I will explain it to you.
1 John 5:6
This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Came by water is clearly a reference to natural child birth!
He came into this world by water, means he was a legitimate Human Being. Only a legitimate Human Being was authorized to take away the sins of the world.
He was The Only One to come into the world by both water and blood. Blood being Mary's hymen. Mary's water sack and hymen broke when He came into the world, for she was a Virgin!
Brother, please tell me you understand this. This is basic Christianity 101!
JLB
Lively Stone Greetings in Christ from Sunny Texas,
If baptism is the natural birth--then almost every human being has already been immersed.
However, the word does not mean physical birth.
It was first used when women went to the river to wash clothes and a crocadile would grap one and take them under the water.
Later the word is used of a ship that is sinking and is sunk. It is immersed in the water.
The last two prophets to Israel John and Jesus did not so use the word and Jesus did not teach that baptism was the new birth.
Jesus taught the baptism of John which was done in the river--an immersion with folksconfessing their sins.
Jesus commanded baptism--an immersion in water unto the remission of their sins--and that is how the 3,000 and later the 5,000 and all men since have been redeemed.
If you read Luke 7:29-30 Jesus baptism caused a great division among the Jews--so it still is today with folks wanting something other than what Jesus commanded.
By the way both Jesus and Nicodemus knew that Jesus was teaching the forgivness of sins by immersing in water. Jesus says Nicodemus should of known--should of..figured that out.
I suspect that will continue until the lord returns.
Richard 79408
If baptism is the natural birth--then almost every human being has already been immersed.
However, the word does not mean physical birth.
It was first used when women went to the river to wash clothes and a crocadile would grap one and take them under the water.
Later the word is used of a ship that is sinking and is sunk. It is immersed in the water.
The last two prophets to Israel John and Jesus did not so use the word and Jesus did not teach that baptism was the new birth.
Jesus taught the baptism of John which was done in the river--an immersion with folksconfessing their sins.
Jesus commanded baptism--an immersion in water unto the remission of their sins--and that is how the 3,000 and later the 5,000 and all men since have been redeemed.
If you read Luke 7:29-30 Jesus baptism caused a great division among the Jews--so it still is today with folks wanting something other than what Jesus commanded.
By the way both Jesus and Nicodemus knew that Jesus was teaching the forgivness of sins by immersing in water. Jesus says Nicodemus should of known--should of..figured that out.
I suspect that will continue until the lord returns.
Richard 79408
I'm clearly with you on that. Today's movement of Humanism has tried to mask Biblical Truth about the difference between flesh and spirit. The NIV translation especially tries to get away from that distinction, aligning more towards the doctrines of Humanism. That's why many no longer understand our Lord Jesus' words there in John 3 with making distinctions between flesh birth in the womb vs. one's spirit being born by The Spirit.
Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,
Evidently we all need to be reminded of some of the basics of bible study when it comes to this subject.
Folks who choose to use John 3--are trying to get folks saved under the wrong covenant.
No one today who claims to be a Christian is to be governed by the Mosaic law. That covenant ended at the cross forevermore.
John 3 falls into that catagory. For those who truly believe that baptism is the water of physical birth--there are more than a few problems with that.
(Complete jewish version}Joh 3:3 "Yes, indeed," Yeshua answered him, "I tell you that unless a person is born again from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."
Joh 3:4 Nakdimon said to him, "How can a grown man be 'born'? Can he go back into his mother's womb and be born a second time?"
Joh 3:5 Yeshua answered, "Yes, indeed, I tell you that unless a person is born from water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
[1] Who was Jesus?
[2] Who was Nakdimon?
[3] Can a grown man be born? Can He go back into his mother's womb and be born a second time.{this suggests that physical birth is not baptism--suggests something that must be done by a grown man
Not to change the subject but what is given in scripture as the expressed reason for baptism?
Now, within the jewish community if you describe John 3 and the new birth as just water--and you emphasize water as the new birth
Then why did John the Baptist insist on baptism and that it be an immersion in water unto the remission of one's sins?
The Jews were a lost people--The immersion of John allowed those who did so to have their sins forgiven and God once agan accepted their offerings and sacrifices.
If Jesus truly taught in John 3 that the new birth was from the mother's womb--why did He insist and teach the baptism of John--the baptism or immersion being in water unto the remission of one's sins?
Why did Jesus give his future apostles some 3 plus years of on the job training using baptism as an immersion in water unto the remission of one's sins--if as many seem to claim baptism is from the mother's womb.
BTW--as an aside--more than a few folks are born into this world with out water in the womb--More than a few...
If what you teach about John 3 is correct--these folks can never ever be saved..
Now, you and I never were a part of the John 3 discussion--we are not jews and even if some of us are--the law is long gone.
Under the new covenant--the will is of effect when? AT birth or after one has died?
What does baptism--new birth mean as described in the new covenant?
What is the purpose of the new birth under the new covenant?
It is not the best idea in any world to take a conversation between a Jewish Rabbi and a jewish leader and claim that is all that is taught on the new birth...and that the water part is physical birth.
Richard79408
Evidently we all need to be reminded of some of the basics of bible study when it comes to this subject.
Folks who choose to use John 3--are trying to get folks saved under the wrong covenant.
No one today who claims to be a Christian is to be governed by the Mosaic law. That covenant ended at the cross forevermore.
John 3 falls into that catagory. For those who truly believe that baptism is the water of physical birth--there are more than a few problems with that.
(Complete jewish version}Joh 3:3 "Yes, indeed," Yeshua answered him, "I tell you that unless a person is born again from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."
Joh 3:4 Nakdimon said to him, "How can a grown man be 'born'? Can he go back into his mother's womb and be born a second time?"
Joh 3:5 Yeshua answered, "Yes, indeed, I tell you that unless a person is born from water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
[1] Who was Jesus?
[2] Who was Nakdimon?
[3] Can a grown man be born? Can He go back into his mother's womb and be born a second time.{this suggests that physical birth is not baptism--suggests something that must be done by a grown man
Not to change the subject but what is given in scripture as the expressed reason for baptism?
Now, within the jewish community if you describe John 3 and the new birth as just water--and you emphasize water as the new birth
Then why did John the Baptist insist on baptism and that it be an immersion in water unto the remission of one's sins?
The Jews were a lost people--The immersion of John allowed those who did so to have their sins forgiven and God once agan accepted their offerings and sacrifices.
If Jesus truly taught in John 3 that the new birth was from the mother's womb--why did He insist and teach the baptism of John--the baptism or immersion being in water unto the remission of one's sins?
Why did Jesus give his future apostles some 3 plus years of on the job training using baptism as an immersion in water unto the remission of one's sins--if as many seem to claim baptism is from the mother's womb.
BTW--as an aside--more than a few folks are born into this world with out water in the womb--More than a few...
If what you teach about John 3 is correct--these folks can never ever be saved..
Now, you and I never were a part of the John 3 discussion--we are not jews and even if some of us are--the law is long gone.
Under the new covenant--the will is of effect when? AT birth or after one has died?
What does baptism--new birth mean as described in the new covenant?
What is the purpose of the new birth under the new covenant?
It is not the best idea in any world to take a conversation between a Jewish Rabbi and a jewish leader and claim that is all that is taught on the new birth...and that the water part is physical birth.
Richard79408
The water is about a cleansing and a turning point and that is the beginning of a hope to the coming of the Spirit that is far greater thing. but you should need the water first, meaning cleansing of your sin. as how can you come with out repentance.
Every time the disciples went to a different city where the gospel hadn't
been preached the first thing they did was baptise them in the name of
Jesus and lay their hands on them that they might receive the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:15-16 says,
15 who came down and prayed for them that they might
receive the Holy Spirit.
16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had
simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they
were receiving the Holy Spirit.
That is what Jesus was talking about in John 3. Baptised in water and baptised
in Spirit. Acts 10:44 says,
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy
Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the
message.
47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be
baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we
did, can he?"
Looks like they were baptised in water and baptised in the Spirit. Is this a pattern
or was it just by chance. Let's go to Jerusalem and see what they did. Acts 2:37-
38 says,
37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the
heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles,
"Brethren , what shall we do ?"
38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be
baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness
of your sins ; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Peter told the Jews and Israelites that they needed to do the same thing. Baptised in
water and baptised in Spirit "in the Name". But, why the NAME? Acts 10:43 says,
43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His
name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness
of sins."
God chose water baptism in the NAME of Jesus to wash away sins. It makes your
salvation legal in the Divine Court in Heaven. When you believe on the Lord Jesus
someone should tell you to go get baptised for the remission of your sins. The
problem is most Christians are confused because immediately someone tells them
it is not important. Jesus said, Search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have
aonian life and they are they that testify of me (John 5:39).
Come on people, put on HIS NAME...He loves you? You got enough scripture there
to choke a mule!
What a God! What a Plan!
Logabe
The only undeniable proof a believer has is that his belief aligns completely with scripture. When it moves out side of this it ceases to be of any value.
This way when someone says something like this " I know I'm saved because I prayed one night and it starting snowing in my room." (Some one actually really did say this to be as proof of their salvation to me.) Well, we know they are quite clearly out of their minds. We need to hold ourselves to the same standard. This is why the personal experience and testimony of millions and millions of believers does not lead people to repentance. Paul said "Follow me as I follow Christ" to believers. But we don't see any record in the bible of him preaching of his personal testimony to the lost to try and win them, and what a testimony it was, blinded for three days, dreams, angels, miraculous arranged meetings. But he never once used this awesome supernatural PERSONAL EXPERIENCE in his preaching, he only ever preached Christ.
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