The Truth About The Rapture

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bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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First earth age has some shared information.

This is just an observation, so take it anyway you like.
Late one night I was having coffee talking with the casher a girl that was telling me all about, Quetzalcoatl / Kukulkan the god of the mayans.
A winged serpent covered with a rainbow of colored feathers. I of course told her I could find a similar description in the bible. Threw the course of several weeks I researched Quetzalcoatl. I find that some of the teachings about a previous earth age where Satan was master is reflected in much of what I discovered about Quetzalcoatl / Kukulkan and his twin brother. He was called the morning star, his brother the evening star Venus. He had a human form as well as his feathered serpent form. Kukulcan would transform into a man standing about 6 feet tall with long white hair, but most interestingly he was a male Caucasian man with white skin!

Quetzalcoatl / Kukulcan is one of the three gods that was thought to have created the Earth. He is a serpent in his natural form and was responsible for teaching the Mayan's about such things as how to run a civilization, agriculture, and medicine. After a brief period of being on Earth Kukulcan returned to the ocean telling the Mayans that he would return at some later date.

To the Aztecs Quetzalcoatl was, as his name indicates, a feathered serpent, a flying reptile (much like a dragon), who was a boundary maker (and transgressor) between earth and sky. He was also a creator deity having contributed essentially to the creation of Mankind. He also had anthropomorphic forms, for example in his aspects as Ehecatl the wind god. Among the Aztecs the name Quetzalcoatl was also a priestly title,

And of course if you start digging into eastern or Asian dragons you find similar stories about the dragon being co creator as well, The bible on the other hand does not equate the serpent with the work of Gods creation but rather a created being.

Don't forget those human sacrifices. Before you read below.


Alternative Interpretations

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Some Mormon scholars believe that Quetzalcoatl, as a white, bearded god who came from the sky and promised to return, was actually Jesus Christ. According to the Book of Mormon, Jesus visited the American natives after his resurrection.[sup][13][/sup] Latter-day Saint President John Taylor wrote:

"The story of the life of the Mexican divinity, Quetzalcoatl, closely resembles that of the Savior; so closely, indeed, that we can come to no other conclusion than that Quetzalcoatl and Christ are the same being. But the history of the former has been handed down to us through an impure Lamanitish source. "[sup][14][/sup] This idea was adapted by science fiction author and Mormon Orson Scott Card in his story America.


Roman Catholic
In the 2004 book The Bearded White God of Ancient America: The Legend of Quetzalcoatl, authors Donald and W. David Hemingway examine a theory among Conquistador-era analysts that Quetzalcoatl may have been a New Testament-era Apostle of Jesus Christ, such as Saint Thomas. Donald Hemingway has previously taught religious studies classes at Brigham Young University [1]. The aforementioned theory expressed by John Taylor in the Latter-Day Saint Movement is also discussed within his book in an appendix.


New Age
Various theories about Quetzalcoatl are popular in the New Age movement, especially since the publication of Tony Shearer's 1971 book "Lord of the dawn: Quetzalcoatl and the Tree of Life" republished also under the title "Lord of the dawn: Quetzalcoatl, the plumed serpent of Mexico."
 

TexUs

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Nov 18, 2010
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I don't think you do yourself any service in using made up Mayan fairytales to prove your three earth ages.

I think most people would realize how asinine that actually sounds.

You're no better than Catholics that teach Papal infallibility... based off made up traditions of men.
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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I have not twisted anything. You love the lie of Rapture more than God's Truth. As long as you allow your thumb-sucking rapture be your redemption instead of the Truth, God will aid you in your delusion [2 Thes. 2:11-12].
Was Paul deluded when he wrote this?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Are you denying this is a literal future event? I don't care whether you call it 'rapture' or not. It is a real event.
 

TexUs

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Nov 18, 2010
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Was Paul deluded when he wrote this?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Are you denying this is a literal future event? I don't care whether you call it 'rapture' or not. It is a real event.

If it's not the rapture then it doesn't support the rapture, does it? LOL.
So apparently it DOES matter what you define it and consider it to be.
 

Vincent

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Sep 6, 2010
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[font="arial][size="2"]
I don't even remember what the discussion was anymore, it's been too long.

All I know is someone holding Revelation 20 as past seems to be off their rocker because I certainly don't see the Great White Throne Judgement having happened

[/size][/font]sorry. I guess it has been a while since we talked about this stuff. But for the record, I don't see Rev 20 as having occurred in the past. Maybe you're thinking of somebody else.

My point was that Rev 20 is a greatly condensed parallelism for chapters 9 to 19, and that the trumpets and bowls all take place after the millennium. You said that Rev 20 was a continuation of 19 and that therefore I was wrong. I said chapter 20 does not start with "Then" and therefore there is no evidence that it is a continuation of 19.

Was Paul deluded when he wrote this?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Are you denying this is a literal future event? I don't care whether you call it 'rapture' or not. It is a real event.

This is why I don't like the use of the word "rapture". Obviously Paul was not deluded when he wrote this and whatever it is that he is describing it is a real and future event.

I don't think any of us here disagree that the words of the Bible, including the passage you quoted above, are all very real and true. But asking if it is a real event vs asking if it is a literal event are two very different questions.
 

Vincent

New Member
Sep 6, 2010
48
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Edmonton, Alberta
First earth age has some shared information.

This is just an observation, so take it anyway you like.
Late one night I was having coffee talking with the casher a girl that was telling me all about, Quetzalcoatl / Kukulkan the god of the mayans.
A winged serpent covered with a rainbow of colored feathers. I of course told her I could find a similar description in the bible. Threw the course of several weeks I researched Quetzalcoatl. I find that some of the teachings about a previous earth age where Satan was master is reflected in much of what I discovered about Quetzalcoatl / Kukulkan and his twin brother. He was called the morning star, his brother the evening star Venus. He had a human form as well as his feathered serpent form. Kukulcan would transform into a man standing about 6 feet tall with long white hair, but most interestingly he was a male Caucasian man with white skin!

Quetzalcoatl / Kukulcan is one of the three gods that was thought to have created the Earth. He is a serpent in his natural form and was responsible for teaching the Mayan's about such things as how to run a civilization, agriculture, and medicine. After a brief period of being on Earth Kukulcan returned to the ocean telling the Mayans that he would return at some later date.

To the Aztecs Quetzalcoatl was, as his name indicates, a feathered serpent, a flying reptile (much like a dragon), who was a boundary maker (and transgressor) between earth and sky. He was also a creator deity having contributed essentially to the creation of Mankind. He also had anthropomorphic forms, for example in his aspects as Ehecatl the wind god. Among the Aztecs the name Quetzalcoatl was also a priestly title,

I don't know about that first earth stuff but the stuff about Quetzalcoatl is interesting. However, I think it's more likely that he is not Jesus, but rather the anti-Christ. Interestingly, the Cherokee Rattlesnake Prophecies talk about this feathered serpent and predict that he will return in 2012. It would make sense if he is to convince the world that he is "God" that he would be resurrected and fulfill various prophecies at the same time.

There's lots of information on this stuff that doesn't really pertain to this thread. Perhaps a new thread is required.






 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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I don't know about that first earth stuff but the stuff about Quetzalcoatl is interesting. However, I think it's more likely that he is not Jesus, but rather the anti-Christ. Interestingly, the Cherokee Rattlesnake Prophecies talk about this feathered serpent and predict that he will return in 2012. It would make sense if he is to convince the world that he is "God" that he would be resurrected and fulfill various prophecies at the same time.

There's lots of information on this stuff that doesn't really pertain to this thread. Perhaps a new thread is required.

I believe the same, it is / was Satan. Over several weeks I witnessed to this girl I did look into it. Its pretty clear from scripture its an anti christ teaching.
The part that affrims 3 earth age people, [they spoke about it in the last page] is the belief that Satan had complete dominion over a previous earth age and it was there that he fell.
This age is simply the reflection of the results, they use his seed and her seed in Gen 3 as support. It has Calvinist over tones, but more telling is selective peoples threw the different seeds, racism is the best was to describe it. The thought is that our destiny's were already played out and are now manifest here. Some here have said that Cain and Able were twins, one being the offspring of Adam and the other the offspring of Satan. Twins conceived in one womb from two different fathers. Are you beginning to see a similar story?

Edit;
BTW if you haven't noticed there is a thread topic named First Earth Age and the Three Earth Ages in the Bible Study Forum
click to view http://www.christianityboard.com/forum/39-first-earth-age-and-the-three-earth-ages/
I have looked into it as well. Thats when I began to notice the similarities.
 

TexUs

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Nov 18, 2010
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[font="arial] [/font]sorry. I guess it has been a while since we talked about this stuff. But for the record, I don't see Rev 20 as having occurred in the past. Maybe you're thinking of somebody else.

My point was that Rev 20 is a greatly condensed parallelism for chapters 9 to 19, and that the trumpets and bowls all take place after the millennium. You said that Rev 20 was a continuation of 19 and that therefore I was wrong. I said chapter 20 does not start with "Then" and therefore there is no evidence that it is a continuation of 19.
OK.
Well I'd say there's no reason in the text itself to believe that unless one was trying to make it fit their opinions instead of form it.
 

[email protected]

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First earth age has some shared information.

This is just an observation, so take it anyway you like.
Late one night I was having coffee talking with the casher a girl that was telling me all about, Quetzalcoatl / Kukulkan the god of the mayans.
A winged serpent covered with a rainbow of colored feathers. I of course told her I could find a similar description in the bible. Threw the course of several weeks I researched Quetzalcoatl. I find that some of the teachings about a previous earth age where Satan was master is reflected in much of what I discovered about Quetzalcoatl / Kukulkan and his twin brother. He was called the morning star, his brother the evening star Venus. He had a human form as well as his feathered serpent form. Kukulcan would transform into a man standing about 6 feet tall with long white hair, but most interestingly he was a male Caucasian man with white skin!

Quetzalcoatl / Kukulcan is one of the three gods that was thought to have created the Earth. He is a serpent in his natural form and was responsible for teaching the Mayan's about such things as how to run a civilization, agriculture, and medicine. After a brief period of being on Earth Kukulcan returned to the ocean telling the Mayans that he would return at some later date.

To the Aztecs Quetzalcoatl was, as his name indicates, a feathered serpent, a flying reptile (much like a dragon), who was a boundary maker (and transgressor) between earth and sky. He was also a creator deity having contributed essentially to the creation of Mankind. He also had anthropomorphic forms, for example in his aspects as Ehecatl the wind god. Among the Aztecs the name Quetzalcoatl was also a priestly title,

And of course if you start digging into eastern or Asian dragons you find similar stories about the dragon being co creator as well, The bible on the other hand does not equate the serpent with the work of Gods creation but rather a created being.

Don't forget those human sacrifices. Before you read below.


Alternative Interpretations

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Some Mormon scholars believe that Quetzalcoatl, as a white, bearded god who came from the sky and promised to return, was actually Jesus Christ. According to the Book of Mormon, Jesus visited the American natives after his resurrection.[sup][13][/sup] Latter-day Saint President John Taylor wrote:

"The story of the life of the Mexican divinity, Quetzalcoatl, closely resembles that of the Savior; so closely, indeed, that we can come to no other conclusion than that Quetzalcoatl and Christ are the same being. But the history of the former has been handed down to us through an impure Lamanitish source. "[sup][14][/sup] This idea was adapted by science fiction author and Mormon Orson Scott Card in his story America.


Roman Catholic
In the 2004 book The Bearded White God of Ancient America: The Legend of Quetzalcoatl, authors Donald and W. David Hemingway examine a theory among Conquistador-era analysts that Quetzalcoatl may have been a New Testament-era Apostle of Jesus Christ, such as Saint Thomas. Donald Hemingway has previously taught religious studies classes at Brigham Young University [1]. The aforementioned theory expressed by John Taylor in the Latter-Day Saint Movement is also discussed within his book in an appendix.


New Age
Various theories about Quetzalcoatl are popular in the New Age movement, especially since the publication of Tony Shearer's 1971 book "Lord of the dawn: Quetzalcoatl and the Tree of Life" republished also under the title "Lord of the dawn: Quetzalcoatl, the plumed serpent of Mexico."

There is also a Muslim character called Iblis or Shaitan who either shares the throne of allah or displaces the throne of allah. Either way Iblis/Shaitan gives allah a real hard time.
According to Muslim ideology, allah created three types of beings; angels (who couldn't sin), men (who could), and a spiritual entity called jinn (who could). Shaitan was a jinn.
To take the story a bit further, Iblis rises out of the sea (or has his throne on the sea, I don't remember) and rebels against allah.

It is interesting to note that the Bible says a wicked creature would rise out of the sea in the last days and that Muslim lore says that Iblis would have something to do with the sea as well. Your Mayan flying serpent may very well be one and the same as the great enemy of man; SATAN.
 

bud02

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There is also a Muslim character called Iblis or Shaitan who either shares the throne of allah or displaces the throne of allah. Either way Iblis/Shaitan gives allah a real hard time.
According to Muslim ideology, allah created three types of beings; angels (who couldn't sin), men (who could), and a spiritual entity called jinn (who could). Shaitan was a jinn.
To take the story a bit further, Iblis rises out of the sea (or has his throne on the sea, I don't remember) and rebels against allah.

It is interesting to note that the Bible says a wicked creature would rise out of the sea in the last days and that Muslim lore says that Iblis would have something to do with the sea as well. Your Mayan flying serpent may very well be one and the same as the great enemy of man; SATAN.

Quetzalcoat was said to say he would return from the sea. In Rev I sometimes wounder If the beast is coming out, or the water is going down. Cyrus diverted the river from under Babylon and entered under the gate. The water was removed from under Babylons gates. I wonder If the same could be true for the beast and the whore. The waters being peoples and nations drying up exposing the truth. Rather than them walking out. It simply says coming out. Well if I put a rock in the bathtub and let the water out the rock also comes out of the water? Just some food for thought.
 

rockytopva

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Praise the Lord! Beam me up Jesus!
 

Duckybill

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This is why I don't like the use of the word "rapture". Obviously Paul was not deluded when he wrote this and whatever it is that he is describing it is a real and future event.

I don't think any of us here disagree that the words of the Bible, including the passage you quoted above, are all very real and true. But asking if it is a real event vs asking if it is a literal event are two very different questions.
Honestly I'm somewhat confused by what some call the 'rapture doctrine'. But I see no reason whatsoever to deny that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV) is a literal future event. It's quite clear.
 

bud02

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Where you attempting to suggest that heteropaternal superfecundation is impossible?

No I'm not. But it is interesting that we have other accounts of twins being born in Gen. But no account of Cain and Able being twins.
 

Vincent

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Sep 6, 2010
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There is also a Muslim character called Iblis or Shaitan who either shares the throne of allah or displaces the throne of allah. Either way Iblis/Shaitan gives allah a real hard time.
According to Muslim ideology, allah created three types of beings; angels (who couldn't sin), men (who could), and a spiritual entity called jinn (who could). Shaitan was a jinn.
To take the story a bit further, Iblis rises out of the sea (or has his throne on the sea, I don't remember) and rebels against allah.

It is interesting to note that the Bible says a wicked creature would rise out of the sea in the last days and that Muslim lore says that Iblis would have something to do with the sea as well. Your Mayan flying serpent may very well be one and the same as the great enemy of man; SATAN.

Yes, I think it's likely that these are all slightly varying versions of the same basic story. Something wicked comes in the last days.
 

australia

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But no account of Cain and Able being twins.

'Adam knew Eve his wife' is an act found in Gen 4:1. The act is missing from Gen 4:2.

Result: One act by Adam; two children (Cain and Abel).

'Adam knew his wife again' is an act found in Gen 4:25.

Result: One act by Adam; one child (Seth).

Cain's name is not found in Genesis Chapter 5. Seth is the first living son of Adam in that chapter because Abel had been murdered.

Fin
al result: heteropaternal superfecundation
 

Vincent

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After Cain killed Abel, he fled to a city. There were obviously many people already on earth. Probably thousands. How many kids did Adam and Eve have? Not all of these "acts" are noted in the Bible.
 

australia

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After Cain killed Abel, he fled to a city.

No, he went to build one. [see Gen 4:17]

There were obviously many people already on earth. Probably thousands.

Yes. [see Gen 1:26 - 27]

How many kids did Adam and Eve have?

I don't know. The only ones we're told about are Abel and Seth (for good reason).

Not all of these "acts" are noted in the Bible.

No, but when we are told about such acts, it is for good reason. [see Judges 11:39 as an example]
 

veteran

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I believe the same, it is / was Satan. Over several weeks I witnessed to this girl I did look into it. Its pretty clear from scripture its an anti christ teaching.
The part that affrims 3 earth age people, [they spoke about it in the last page] is the belief that Satan had complete dominion over a previous earth age and it was there that he fell.
This age is simply the reflection of the results, they use his seed and her seed in Gen 3 as support. It has Calvinist over tones, but more telling is selective peoples threw the different seeds, racism is the best was to describe it. The thought is that our destiny's were already played out and are now manifest here. Some here have said that Cain and Able were twins, one being the offspring of Adam and the other the offspring of Satan. Twins conceived in one womb from two different fathers. Are you beginning to see a similar story?

Edit;
BTW if you haven't noticed there is a thread topic named First Earth Age and the Three Earth Ages in the Bible Study Forum
click to view
http://www.christian...ree-earth-ages/
I have looked into it as well. Thats when I began to notice the similarities.



So your REAL aim is to TRY and discredit those among Christ's believers that are given to see a prior earth age taught in God's Word when Satan rebelled against God? It would be a major joke on you if you discovered some of the Christian pastors you've enjoyed listening to also understand about that time, now wouldn't it? I know of quite a few pastors that know about it within God's Word. Most of them simply don't teach about it, and some of them do. Some of them are Bible scholars you've probably used for Bible study, that is if you've actually ever studied to that level (which I'm somehow now doubting).

But what's most ironical, is how your earlier post with ancient peoples recording a pagan history pointing to a previous time on earth with that old serpent in reign (Satan), that actually helps CONFIRM the existence of a prior time on this earth when Satan first rebelled!

And it does not detract from God's Word at all, simply because the very ancient Babylonian Tablets ALSO have a pagan twist on that event, INCLUDING an account of the creation!

But the PAGAN accounts are full of twists and turns designed to mislead from the real account written in God's Word. And that's the difference.

Another thing is, I consider LDS as following elements of Islamic views from early Arabian interpretations of the law of Moses (per Joseph Smith and the supposed Persian tablets he claimed to have discovered). I'm not a Mormon, but I've never read nor heard any of them cover God's Word about Satan's first rebellion in relation to a prior earth age. But I have heard pastors from various Christian denominations talk about it.

It almost sounds like you're trying to dislcaim and hide what Satan did of old when God said he was "perfect in his ways" in following Him, but then later rebelled against God (per Ezekiel 28).