The Two Arks.

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theefaith

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Where is it written that Mary was preserved from original sin? And may I ask, what was original sin?


Giving birth in Israel meant a period of "uncleanness" for the mother. If the baby was a boy, she was considered "unclean" for seven days, the same as during her menstrual period. The eighth day the child was circumcised, but for another 33 days the mother was "unclean" with regard to touching anything holy or coming into the sanctuary.

If the baby was a girl, this 40-day period was doubled: 14 days plus 66 days. So, from birth, the Law distinguished between male and female. In either case, at the end of the period of purification she was to bring a ram less than a year old for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a turtledove for a sin offering. If the parents were too poor to afford a ram, as was the case with Mary and Joseph, then two doves or two pigeons served for the cleansing sacrifices. (Leviticus 12:1-8; Luke 2:22-24)

If Mary was sinless, why was there a need for a sin offering made by her? If her child was holy, then why was she "unclean" for a period after his birth?
Mary was said to have other children, named in Matthew 13:54-56...
"When Jesus had finished these parables, he departed from that district.
54 He came to his hometown, and he began to teach the people in the synagogue. They were astonished and wondered, “Where did this man get such wisdom and these mighty deeds? 55 Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? Are not James and Joseph and Simon and Judas his brethren? 56 And are not all his sisters here with us? Where then did this man get all this?
(NCB)

Arguing that these were not his natural brothers and sisters is ridiculous! Naming his entire family starting with his father and mother to people in his hometown, who knew the family well, and naming his 4 brothers, who at that stage were not even believers (John 7:5) as well as mention of his sisters, shows that these were not his spiritual brethren.....so these were his half siblings. Nowhere does it state that Mary was to remain a virgin.....even the New Catholic Bible says...in Matthew 1:25...concerning Joseph....
"but he engaged in no marital relations with her until she gave birth to a son, whom he named Jesus."
So not ever virgin. And Jewish families were large. Jesus had at least 6 siblings.

John 2:12 also makes the distinction between his disciples and his fleshly brothers.
"After this, he went down to Capernaum with his mother, his brethren, and his disciples, and they remained there for a few days."
You see that "his mother, his brethren AND his disciples" are mentioned.

I do not believe that the Roman Catholic church has taught anything but lies to its members for centuries. There is no scriptural basis for anything they teach....
All that has been accorded to Mary is handed down from pagan mother worship. Her titles and the fact that she was 'ever virgin' are not notions from scripture, but from Catholic tradition adopted from pagan sources, and handed on to the people with absolutely no scriptural support.

Calling her "Queen of Heaven" and "Mother of God" do not accord Mary with the favor that God found in her. She was not sinless but chosen as the vessel through whom the promised seed would come. There was not a single gene in Jesus' body that came from either Joseph or Mary. It was Jesus who was sinless, not the woman who bore him.

We know through surrogacy that a mother does not have to be related to a child she carries and gives birth to.....her womb is simply used to grow the infant and give birth to it, so with Jesus, he was not related (genetically) to either parent. God was his Father and he was a product of holy spirit....Mary was not sinless.

simple answer was to fulfill the law! Christ came to fulfill all righteousness

mary was not a normal woman in any way!

Her immaculate conception in her mothers womb was miraculous!

her conception of Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Ghost was miraculous!

The virgin birth of Jesus Christ was miraculous!
 

theefaith

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Mary did not need to be sinless to carry the child created by God's spirit in her womb. She was a devout Jewish woman who knew her God and was humble and obedient to him. She was not a sinner in as much as she practiced sin....NO! she was a very good woman who simply inherited her imperfections from Adam as we all have.

Jesus was born of a virgin for a good reason....because it was prophesied that he would be born of a virgin (meaning no earthly father) and so that no one could say his father was Joseph.
This was "the son of God" but he came through a daughter of Adam who inherited his sin just like everyone else.

Jesus is not called "God incarnate" in any passage of scripture. If he was God, then he could not die. Mere mortals cannot kill an immortal Being.

Jesus did not have to be God in order to redeem the human race.....all he had to be was the equivalent of the first man....a perfect sinless creation of his God.....Jesus is called "the last Adam" because he paid the debt caused by the first Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45).....God's law was "an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, life for life".....perfect life was lost for all of Adam's children when he failed the test of obedience in the garden, (Romans 5:12) and Jesus paid with his perfect life to buy ours back. That is what redemption is....an exact payment to buy back what was sold. Jesus had to be 100% sinless human to pay the price. He was not a god/man because that was not demanded to satisfy God's justice. If Jesus didn't really die, then we are still lost in our sins.

Mary and her betrothed future husband had the ideal situation as an engaged couple, and as devout Jews, because a betrothal was as good as a marriage commitment. It was a time for the prospective groom to prepare a place for his future wife and after he had brought her to the home prepared for her, only then were they considered married and consummation permitted. Joseph was told about the divine origins of the child and took Mary as his wife, but he did not have relations with her until after she had given birth to Jesus. Normal marital relations commenced as Mary and Joseph had a typically large family.

The scriptures are there....you can believe them....don't believe your church. They have sold these lies to trusting people for centuries. :(

Christ founded the church to teach and sanctify all men! Matt 28:19
 

theefaith

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Interesting, but Mary isn't called the Ark of God. I think to say Mary is the Ark is some type of personal revelation and it probably isn't a revelation from God. The following scripture from Paul indicates that all except Jesus (God) sinned and fell short of God's glory:

Romans 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

the angel of the Lord declared unto Mary! And she conceived by the Holy Ghost!

It is Luke 1:27-38

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. (Mary found salvation that was lost by Adam and Eve)

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

mary consented to our salvation!

everything depended on this!

rom 3:23 refers to original sin of which God preserved Mary as the first blow against the kingdom of satan! Lk 1:49

satan in tempting Eve and Adam consented with her gained dominion over mankind, Jesus and Mary got it back, that’s why they are the king and queen of glory!
 

theefaith

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The reason that Jesus was born without an Adamic nature, unlike the rest of us that are born into sin, is because GOD is His Father.
So, if Mary's Father is God, then she is immaculate, and free from original sin, same as Jesus.
If God didn't create Mary inside the virgin womb of another Virgin, then the CC is lying about Mary., and will continue to do it, as the catholic church stared as "the CULT OF THE VIRGIN"..."the cult of Mary".
This was its title, given about 4-5 AD by its original "church fathers".
The reason that Jesus was born without an Adamic nature, unlike the rest of us that are born into sin, is because GOD is His Father.
So, if Mary's Father is God, then she is immaculate, and free from original sin, same as Jesus.
If God didn't create Mary inside the virgin womb of another Virgin, then the CC is lying about Mary., and will continue to do it, as the catholic church stared as "the CULT OF THE VIRGIN"..."the cult of Mary".
This was its title, given about 4-5 AD by its original "church fathers".

What does Lk 1:49 refer too?
 

theefaith

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Antichrist.

500 ἀντίχριστος antichristos an-tee’-khris-tos

‭from 473 and 5547; n m; TDNT-9:493,1322; {See TDNT 850}

‭AV-antichrist 5; 5

‭1) the adversary of the Messiah

473 ἀντί anti an-tee’

‭a primary particle; prep; TDNT-1:372,61; {See TDNT 75}

‭AV-for 15, because + 3639 4, for … cause 1, therefore + 3639 1, in the room of 1; 22

‭1) over against, opposite to, before
‭2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
‭ 2a) instead of
‭ 2b) for
‭ 2c) for that, because.


‭The exaltation of Mary as co-Redeemer is Antichrist.

So Pilate, the Jews, the Roman’s all are anti-Christ?

co-redeemer only means cooperated, they all cooperated in our redemption

Christ in his person is our salvation Lk 2:30

Mary found our salvation lost by Adam Lk 1:30 and she consented to our salvation Lk 1:38

without Mary there can be no salvation!

the angel of the Lord declared unto Mary and she conceived by the Holy Spirit!
 

David Boyer

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The following question is for those who believe Mary was not preserved from original sin and committed sins:

God wanted an ark made of the best and purest materials to carry His written Word. How then could God want the Word made flesh, Jesus (God incarnate), to be carried by an impure (sinful) woman?

I'm not asking why God chose Mary over any other impure (sinful) woman, rather why God wanted an impure (sinful) woman at all to carry the Word made flesh, "THE holy one," Jesus (God incarnate), when He wanted the best and purest materials to carry His written word?

I ask this because if you're going to claim Mary wasn't preserved from original sin and committed sins, and provide what scriptural evidence you believe supports this, then you must also have the explanation for WHY God wanted an impure (sinful) woman at all to carry "THE holy one," Jesus (God incarnate). If you can't explain WHY, I suggest finding out, as it's important for your argument. You should be able to find the explanation in Scripture, since all your beliefs are scripturally based, yes?


Wasn't the first ark made of wood and gold... materials that were from the Earth... subject to the fall.
So the first ark was made of impure materials... why not the second.
 

theefaith

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No. Only the Papacy has placed numerous counterfeit ways and means of salvation replacing the only Way, Truth, and Life.

Not replacing but establishing

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15
 

BeyondET

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The following question is for those who believe Mary was not preserved from original sin and committed sins:

God wanted an ark made of the best and purest materials to carry His written Word. How then could God want the Word made flesh, Jesus (God incarnate), to be carried by an impure (sinful) woman?

I'm not asking why God chose Mary over any other impure (sinful) woman, rather why God wanted an impure (sinful) woman at all to carry the Word made flesh, "THE holy one," Jesus (God incarnate), when He wanted the best and purest materials to carry His written word?

I ask this because if you're going to claim Mary wasn't preserved from original sin and committed sins, and provide what scriptural evidence you believe supports this, then you must also have the explanation for WHY God wanted an impure (sinful) woman at all to carry "THE holy one," Jesus (God incarnate). If you can't explain WHY, I suggest finding out, as it's important for your argument. You should be able to find the explanation in Scripture, since all your beliefs are scripturally based, yes?
Mary was Heli's daughter and the genealogy goes back to Adam, Joseph was the son in law of Heli back then there was no saying as in-laws. Jesus was the last Adam thus why Mary was favored. Doesn't matter if she was sinless or not it was all about the lineage back to Adam

Luke 3:23
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
- - -
38 the [son] of Enos, the [son] of Seth, the [son] of Adam, the [son] of God.


1 Corinthians 15
45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit
 
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Brakelite

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Not replacing but establishing

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15
I agree with all those scriptures. I'm a protestant. One of very few left. One who believes in Sola scriptura. And also believes one's life ought to be a reflection of the written standards of gospel living, those standards of conduct being of equal authority to the rest of scripture. I do not believe in the modernist emasculated protestantism so popular in modern Christianity. So don't come and pound me with scripture, you who doesn't believe in scripture but who places tradition above scripture. Yes, Jesus gave all those privileges and responsibilities to His apostles, and by extension, His church. But your church "theefaith" over one and a half millennium has literally abused those privileges, denied the actual responsibility that comes with that abuse, and I declare as per the authority invested in me by those self same scriptures you posted, that your house is left into you desolate.
You may claim that within protestantism "there is no king in Israel, and therefore everyone is doing what is right in their own eyes". I'm here to declare to you, that there is a King in Israel, but He doesn't live in Rome, He rules and reigns in the hearts and minds of His adopted children by His Spirit, who is sent to us from the true sanctuary in heaven wherein our faithful High Priest ministers, bypassing the counterfeit Antichrist sanctuary of Rome.
You may challenge, how do I know I am right when so many protestants disagree with me? "By their fruits ye shall know them".
KJV John 5:39-40
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

You have declared several times in the past of your presumed entitlement to put to death those you judge heretics according to your doctrine. Not biblical doctrine, because you don't believe in the bible. But man's doctrine, taught and interpreted in light of tradition by priests and prelates. Those leaders, with whom I believe you would fully identify, in dealing with modem heretics would quite readily express the same sentiment toward them as these...
KJV John 19:15
15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King's (children)? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar (Pontifex Maximus).

The office, presently occupied by one you call a pretender, is your king is it not? Is not everything in scripture defined by him whether it be good or evil?
.