The Two Babylons

[Enoch111]

I think rather that what our friend, @bbyrd009 does with his thoughts or questions is to probe or stir up the practices and beliefs of people who have stopped seeking the correct first things firsts... if they ever did.

But he is one of those who is ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. God expects every person to come to a point where they either believe with their whole heart or walk away from Christ and Christianity. Not sabotage Christian discussions. As Jesus said "He who is not with us is against us".

 

[farouk]

I will stand with the verse I cited. The questions we may ask are what is His Kingdom and what is His righteousness. The answer He does have for us:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

But, don't ask amiss!

"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:3

These are good verses to remember; thank-you.

 

[amadeus]

But he is one of those who is ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. God expects every person to come to a point where they either believe with their whole heart or walk away from Christ and Christianity. Not sabotage Christian discussions. As Jesus said "He who is not with us is against us".

I would say that you don't know @bbyrd009 very well. But probably I don't either when it comes down to it.

Then again for your argument of him not being with "us" it would depend upon who is included as in the antecedent of that pronoun.

Toward the end of Jesus' walk as a man of flesh many left him because they could not understand his teachings. Instead of working to keep them or compromising, he rather turned to the 12, his closest followers, asking if they would leave as well. If they had chosen to do so, Jesus would have simply walked on alone.

Actually, though, who even among the 12 did walk openly and always with him as he made his way to the Jewish and Roman leaders on his way to the cross which waited for him? Even though Peter spoke brave words in response to Jesus' question, he proceeded to deny Jesus three times before Jesus died. Who was NOT against Jesus as he went to the cross? Who understood at the time even what Jesus was doing and why?

Do we all understand so much better now just what it was that Jesus really did? Many of us on this really small forum who answer, yes, to that question will also disagree with one another. Are any of us in our disagreements victims of sabotage? Who among us can correctly point out the saboteurs?

 

[farouk]

The book by Hislop - whether or not accurate in every single respect - certain can act as a spur to grasp and be sure of Bible doctrine.

 

[aspen]

Wow I never heard of worshiping the Pope.....you sure you’re not making this up?

 

[bbyrd009]

You should be aware that bbyrd009 is a saboteur who calls Christianity "Mithraism", and mocks everything in the Gospel. There would be no point in enlightening him any further.

i would love to be further enlightened, pEnoch, and if you could expose me as a saboteur today i would be pickled tink ok.

I dont think you can quote me ever calling Christianity Mithraism, if youd like to start with that.

And this is why we have forums, yeh? So that ppl who have declared themselves wise can test what they know? Accusing a Christian of mocking the Gospel is a fairly serious charge, pEnoch, are you sure you want to go down this road? Esp with no evidence?

But i guess you got everone's attention now, i'm ready for the examination i guess. Farouk work for you for a mod then? Oh, sorry, Acolyte i mean? F has me on ignore i guess. Ok, opening statements are done i guess, present your first salvo bro, which charge you wanna start with

Prolly best to just lay whatever you got for each of those down first, i guess? Discovery, you call it, right? So call.

 

[bbyrd009]

I would say that you don't know @bbyrd009 very well. But probably I don't either when it comes down to it.

Then again for your argument of him not being with "us" it would depend upon who is included as in the antecedent of that pronoun.

Toward the end of Jesus' walk as a man of flesh many left him because they could not understand his teachings. Instead of working to keep them or compromising, he rather turned to the 12, his closest followers, asking if they would leave as well. If they had chosen to do so, Jesus would have simply walked on alone.

Actually, though, who even among the 12 did walk openly and always with him as he made his way to the Jewish and Roman leaders on his way to the cross which waited for him? Even though Peter spoke brave words in response to Jesus' question, he proceeded to deny Jesus three times before Jesus died. Who was NOT against Jesus as he went to the cross? Who understood at the time even what Jesus was doing and why?

Do we all understand so much better now just what it was that Jesus really did? Many of us on this really small forum who answer, yes, to that question will also disagree with one another. Are any of us in our disagreements victims of sabotage? Who among us can correctly point out the saboteurs?

gotta ask yourself imo why the Son of Man Who already knew the end from the beginning would be saying "God, why have you forsaken Me" huh?

as for sabotage, i gotta confess i have some stuff--some lol, as if--that i have to answer for, that lame apologies later prolly dont really address too good, but i think the charges of sabotage as laid out here are prolly not the way to go. That might be more like provocateur anyway, like you mentioned i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

anyway, came back to say that i meant "no opening evidence" up there pEnoch, @Enoch111 , whaddya call it um...circum...no, wait...telltale, ya, ya, no telltale no evidence? That's kinda when you're supposed to give ppl a little foretaste of the fire to come, when you make your accusations, yeh? Establish some like initial legitimazzy? I think the manual suggests going with your second biggest bombshell there fwiw ("Prosecuting Attorney for Dummies," if i'm not mistaken, should be out by...ha, the rapture at this rate lol)

 

[bbyrd009]

But he is one of those who is ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. God expects every person to come to a point where they either believe with their whole heart or walk away from Christ and Christianity. Not sabotage Christian discussions. As Jesus said "He who is not with us is against us".

oh, i'm here for your head, pEnoch, your enemies will for sure be those of your own household bro, dunno if youre around yet this am or not, but 'm ready when you are k?

ok yall have a good day, might be this evening Father willing, should give you plenty of time to establish your position i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

Bible Search: believe with your whole heart
ya, thought that sounded fishy
too

its the "whole heart" thing i think, the heart is not whole? maybe? totally guessing

 

[amadeus]

gotta ask yourself imo why the Son of Man Who already knew the end from the beginning would be saying "God, why have you forsaken Me" huh?

A hard question and who knows the answer? Have any of us who has really served God at all ever felt that God has forsaken him? When we in the depths of a pit have none of us called out perhaps in despair or even anger and He was "seemingly" not there [no answer right now when we believe we need it?]

So then perhaps we see Jesus in one of his final performances as a man of flesh still tempted as we are... but still unwilling to call upon those 12 plus legions of angels to assist him. If it were you or me on the cross suffering and dying might we not call out the same words? Could we or would we, having the choices and authority that Jesus had go ahead and allow death to take us?

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:18

Jesus came to be like us, tempted in every point but also overcoming in every point. Do we not have it to do... to overcome that is?

as for sabotage, i gotta confess i have some stuff--some lol, as if--that i have to answer for, that lame apologies later prolly dont really address to good, but i think the charges of sabotage as laid out here are prolly not the way to go. That might be more like provocateur anyway, like you mentioned i guess.

We all probably have such stuff to answer for, but then again consider how God really views things, if we can... Think about Moses when he was working the way God told him work as best he could but then once for certain he erred as the people blamed him and God so he went farther than he was supposed to go...

"And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also." Num 20:11

Sometimes in your case @bbyrd009 in doing the work that God has given you to do, have you not also struck Jesus himself? I honestly wish I could say that I never had.

Moses was kept from the Promised Land of Israel, but his blunder was not the final end for him as we see him together with Elijah at the transfiguration.

 

[bbyrd009]

A hard question and who knows the answer?

ha, tbh i'm not sure an answer is even called for, so much as a reflection?

[no answer right now when we believe we need it?]

ha, and there it is!
lol

but while you have already let the cat out there i guess, the accepted Christian pov @ Jesus is pretty obviously in conflict with the Question, and the accepted explanation "bc God cannot look upon sin, God had to turn His Head" is inadequate at best? I would even say obv in denial, antiScriptural even. Even no support whatsoever, not a single Witness, might be pushing it there tho dunno

 

[bbyrd009]

So then perhaps we see Jesus in one of his final performances as a man of flesh still tempted as we are... but still unwilling to call upon those 12 plus legions of angels to assist him. If it were you or me on the cross suffering and dying might we not call out the same words? Could we or would we, having the choices and authority that Jesus had go ahead and allow death to take us?

these are interesting enough Qs, but imo do not really address Jesus' understanding, even if they do contemplate His choices and authority. Iow even as a Son of Man He could hardly have been forgetting what He knew as God? So to say, or be satisfied with "God cannot be in the presence of sin" despite any lack of Witness strikes me as pretty myopic?

Even if God had imputed our sins to Jesus or Christ, which i also find no support for whatever?
(!)
ha, unwrap that lollipop lol

 

[bbyrd009]

"And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also." Num 20:11

Sometimes in your case @bbyrd009 in doing the work that God has given you to do, have you not also struck Jesus himself? I honestly wish I could say that I never had.

ah ya, ouch, prolly not a passage i wanna talk about too deep i guess huh lol
ty

 

[amadeus]

ha, tbh i'm not sure an answer is even called for, so much as a reflection?

ha, and there it is!
lol

but while you have already let the cat out there i guess, the accepted Christian pov @ Jesus is pretty obviously in conflict with the Question, and the accepted explanation "bc God cannot look upon sin, God had to turn His Head" is inadequate at best? I would even say obv in denial, antiScriptural even. Even no support whatsoever, not a single Witness, might be pushing it there tho dunno

Can God look at man as he is before he is born again [born from above]? Is not the man of flesh in his fleshly ways without having met Jesus still in the depths of sin and death?

What the scripture says is no man can see His [God's] face and live. But this speaks of the corrupted flesh of a man, does it not? God told Moses to warn the people to not even come near the mountain. He also warned even Moses that he could see only His back parts while the covering of God's own hand further protected the place of Moses. [Exodus 33]

God does not have to turn away from us. It is us who have already turned away from Him. But... as our vision through the Holy Spirit improves can we not come to the face to face vision of which Paul wrote?

 

[bbyrd009]

ah ya, ouch, prolly not a passage i wanna talk about too deep i guess huh lol
ty

guess i just never thought of myself as the Mos...es...type no wait
lol
man, Its not Word i guess but you can sure hear Word back there right behind It if you listen huh? i tell ya what. Them guys were hearing It alright i guess. Paging Aaron, i guess is what i meant to say lol.
No, wait...

Can God look at man as he is before he is born again [born from above]? Is not the man of flesh in his fleshly ways without having met Jesus still in the depths of sin and death?

What the scripture says is no man can see His [God's] face and live. But this speaks of the corrupted flesh of a man, does it not? God told Moses to warn the people to not even come near the mountain. He also warned even Moses that he could see only His back parts while the covering of God's own further protected place. [Exodus 33]

God does not have to turn away from us. It is us who have already turned away from Him. But... as our vision through the Holy Spirit improves can we not come to the face to face vision of which Paul wrote?

ya, i'll have to come back for this after i found my skull gain i guess ok. Read it three times and i couldnt quote a single word right now lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Farouk? pEnoch? Where we @?

guess me and aaron is ready whenever
got dollars waitin on dimes now ladies
lol j/k k

 

[bbyrd009]

Can God look at man as he is before he is born again [born from above]? Is not the man of flesh in his fleshly ways without having met Jesus still in the depths of sin and death?

Where are you?
i heard Your Voice in the garden, and i was afraid bc i was naked, so i hid
Who told you that you were naked?

plus i hear an implication that one sinning might somehow be hiding from God...ya, lking it less by the sec bro sorry. looks like God had to look for adam but He found him quick enough maybe?
my guess would be yes to both
although actually "in the depths of" might not characterize everyone so well maybe

hmm, an interesting other way to put maybe that is that even the son doesnt know for a reason, ha

 

[bbyrd009]

God does not have to turn away from us. It is us who have already turned away from Him. But... as our vision through the Holy Spirit improves can we not come to the face to face vision of which Paul wrote?

i would say as long as we are in agreement that they read Paul to their destruction, and then face to face might be a fab way to make a dialectic statement that means ezackly the opposite of what it reads like on the surface? maybe? i feel like stewie slowly turning my head further sideways alla suddden narf

if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father right

 

[bbyrd009]

Farouk? pEnoch? Where we @?

guess me and aaron is ready whenever
got dollars waitin on dimes now ladies
lol j/k k

so, be it heard, at the close of bidness 6 pm on blahblahblah, ...