The Two Witnesses Came and Went Thousands of Years Ago

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ScottA

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I think that what Peter was saying in 2Peter3:8-9 is that God is not bound by the constraint of time, in His desire that all should turn to Jesus and receive eternal life.

The definition of eternity is - infinite or unending time.
There is no such thing as "unending time."

Otherwise, yes, of course, Peter was just giving assurance that time was not an issue to be concerned with. But that doesn't apply to Jesus saying "soon" or referring to things that "must shortly take place", or saying "this generation" speaking specifically about and to those He addressed, saying "you will see."

But all of those passages can be looked at either way. The problem is, there are those passages that cannot be looked at that way, that show that none of those things were to be pushed off into the distant future: Passages such as, "before Abraham was, I am", "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world", and "I was crucified with Christ." Once you begin to pick and choose which ones must certainly mean something else--some time in the future, you're off the path completely.
 

quietthinker

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Yes, the Patriarchs had hope of being redeemed.

While Jesus's body lay dead in the tomb, His soul went to the place of the dead and preached to the souls there who had died in the past. I am sure that Jesus preached the gospel message, and set the souls free, redeeming their souls, to be taken to heaven when He went to heaven, leading captivity captive, Ephesians 4:7-10.

When we believe upon Jesus, our souls are redeemed, born again. We now await the redemption of our bodies in the resurrection/rapture. The time is near. Look up! Lift up our heads. Our redemption draws nigh. Thank God, day and night. Praise His Holy Name !
You are a living soul. We are living souls.
To reiterate, we are souls, we do not have souls. Misunderstand this and you will do violence to the texts you quote and muddle the straight forward into supporting a delusion.

Genesis 2:7
'The Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.'
 

quietthinker

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The whole Thread Topic is about FALSEHOOD.


Funny, since Jesus said the following about Abraham's day...

John 8:56-59
56
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad."

57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"

58
Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

59 Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
KJV
You write as if you understand what Jesus meant. Perhaps you can enlighten us?
 

Douggg

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You are a living soul. We are living souls.
To reiterate, we are souls, we do not have souls. Misunderstand this and you will do violence to the texts you quote and muddle the straight forward into supporting a delusion.

Genesis 2:7
'The Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.'
Yes, as long as we are breathing we are living souls. When a person's body dies, the soul departs the body.
 

Douggg

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No thank you, but I have a greater reference.
Well, the dictionary definition is what I posted.

The definition of eternity is - infinite or unending time.

Everyone is figuratively speaking on a time train heading toward eternity. Which train depends on whether a person has put his trust in Jesus.

 

quietthinker

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Yes, as long as we are breathing we are living souls. When a person's body dies, the soul departs the body.
The text says we became, it doesn't say we received.

When power (energy) is connected to a globe does it become a light or receive a light?
When breath (spirit/ life force/ energy) is connected to dust does it become a soul or receive a soul? Breath is not an entity in itself

Reverse the process and where does the light go? It ceases to exist
When the breath is taken from the body (dust) where does the breath go? Back to God who gave it. Breath is not an entity in itself.
 

Douggg

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The text says we became, it doesn't say we received.

When power (energy) is connected to a globe does it become a light or receive a light?
When breath (spirit/ life force/ energy) is connected to dust does it become a soul or receive a soul? Breath is not an entity in itself

Reverse the process and where does the light go? It ceases to exist
When the breath is taken from the body (dust) where does the breath go? Back to God who gave it. Breath is not an entity in itself.
Do you not believe that when a person's body dies, the soul leaves the body ?

The soul is the inner man. The body is the outer man.
 

quietthinker

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Do you not believe that when a person's body dies, the soul leaves the body ?

The soul is the inner man. The body is the outer man.
A teacher is teaching the arithmetic of addition to a class of children saying 1+1=2. He repeats it several times using various illustrations so it is not misunderstood. A child chimes in, Sir, do you believe in numbers?
 
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Douggg

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A teacher is teaching the arithmetic of addition to a class of children saying 1+1=2. He repeats it several times using various illustrations so it is not misunderstood. A child chimes in, Sir, do believe in numbers?
Is that a "yes" or "no" to the question of....

"Do you not believe that when a person's body dies, the soul leaves the body?"

?
 
D

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Is that a "yes" or "no" to the question of....

"Do you not believe that when a person's body dies, the soul leaves the body?"

?
Genesis 2:7
KJ21
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.''

the verse indicates all of the man is a soul .
 

Douggg

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Genesis 2:7
KJ21
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.''

the verse indicates all of the man is a soul .
I think what that verse is indicating that when God breathed life into the body of man He had formed from the dust of the earth, the body became a living being. In that verse, a living soul = a living being....we call human beings.

The point I was making is that when a human being physically dies, the inner man - the soul - departs the body.

In Matthew 16:26, Jesus said,

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

So our souls are not permanently infused in our physical bodies. It is in our souls that when a person becomes a Christian, that is redeemed, born again, and the person receives Holy Spirit Who resides in their soul.
 

LoveYeshua

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In the beginning, God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul (Genesis 2:7). This shows that man does not have a soul as something separate inside of him, but that he himself became a living being when body and breath came together. When man dies, the body returns to the dust of the earth (Genesis 3:19), and the breath of life returns to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7). The person no longer lives, for the soul, the living being, cannot exist without both body and breath joined together. The Scriptures tell us that in death there is no memory, no praising of God, and that the dead lie in silence (Psalm 6:5; Psalm 115:17). Jesus explained this clearly when He said that death is like sleep, as He told His disciples about Lazarus, that he was asleep, though He meant that he was dead (John 11:11–14). Just as a sleeping man knows nothing until he awakes, so the dead know nothing until the day of resurrection. This is the hope that Jesus gave, for He said that the hour is coming when all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth, some to everlasting life and others to judgment (John 5:28–29).

Jesus also explained that in the resurrection people will not marry nor be given in marriage, but will be like the angels of God in heaven (Matthew 22:30). After His own resurrection, He showed us what the new body will be like. Though the doors were shut, He stood among His disciples (John 20:19). Yet He was not a ghost, for He said, “Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have” (Luke 24:39). He even ate food before them to prove He was real (Luke 24:42–43). His risen body was physical and touchable, but also transformed, no longer subject to death or weakness. He promised that those who belong to Him will share in this same kind of resurrection, for He said, “The righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father” (Matthew 13:43).

So the soul does not go on living apart from the body, but man rests in the grave, silent and still, until God calls him back to life at the resurrection. On that day, those who hear the voice of the Son of God will rise, not as disembodied spirits, but with a real and glorious body, like the one Jesus Himself revealed after His resurrection, filled with everlasting life and the glory of heaven.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You are a living soul. We are living souls.
To reiterate, we are souls, we do not have souls. Misunderstand this and you will do violence to the texts you quote and muddle the straight forward into supporting a delusion.

Genesis 2:7
'The Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.'
Wrong. Do you somehow not understand that words can have more than one meaning? Human beings are living souls made up of "spirit and soul and body".

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 
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Davy

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You write as if you understand what Jesus meant. Perhaps you can enlighten us?

What Jesus said there to those blind scribes and Pharisees is that He is God. That is what that phrase "I AM" means; it is one of God's sacred names that He gave to Moses. And that is why those Pharisees took up stones to try and stone Jesus, because Jesus proclaimed to them that He is God.

And what about what Jesus said that Abraham saw His day, and he saw it, and was glad? The Melchizedek who met Abraham and offered Abraham "bread and wine" was Lord Jesus Christ before He was born through woman's womb. Hebrews 7 confirms that fact.

Same as in Genesis 18 with the "three men" that appeared to Abraham at his tent door, and Abraham bowed and called one of them Lord. And The Lord remained talking with Abraham while the other two men went to Lot per Genesis 19. That was Lord Jesus Abraham was speaking with.

Recall what Paul said in 1 Cor.10...

1 Cor 10:1-4
10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
KJV

If you are a Christian, how can you not know this?
 
D

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I think what that verse is indicating that when God breathed life into the body of man He had formed from the dust of the earth, the body became a living being. In that verse, a living soul = a living being....we call human beings.

The point I was making is that when a human being physically dies, the inner man - the soul - departs the body.

In Matthew 16:26, Jesus said,

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

So our souls are not permanently infused in our physical bodies. It is in our souls that when a person becomes a Christian, that is redeemed, born again, and the person receives Holy Spirit Who resides in their soul.
ok you pointed out that a ''man is a being ''= to a ''living soul'' .the opposite then of a living soul would be a dead soul.
dead beings/souls only go to the place that another living being puts them. the light has gone out no one's at home.
 

Davy

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ok you pointed out that a ''man is a being ''= to a ''living soul'' .the opposite then of a living soul would be a dead soul.
dead beings/souls only go to the place that another living being puts them. the light has gone out no one's at home.

Both of you guys are funny, and only show your Biblical illiteracy about the soul, spirit, and flesh.

Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of
soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV


Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28 that the soul is NOT material flesh.

Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 shows that spirit is NOT material flesh.

John 3:6 shows that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

Our soul is attached with our spirit, and both separate from the flesh body at flesh death, the "silver cord" being severed. Our flesh then goes back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit (with soul) goes back to God Who gave it (Eccl.12).
 
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quietthinker

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Both of you guys are funny, and only show your Biblical illiteracy about the soul, spirit, and flesh.

Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of
soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV


Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28 that the soul is NOT material flesh.

Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 shows that spirit is NOT material flesh.

John 3:6 shows that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

Our soul is attached with our spirit, and both separate from the flesh body at flesh death, the "silver cord" being severed. Our flesh then goes back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit (with soul) goes back to God Who gave it (Eccl.12).
The word 'soul' is not a conscious entity in its own right that goes somewhere at death. It is not something we have, it is what we are ie, living souls.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The word 'soul' is not a conscious entity in its own right that goes somewhere at death. It is not something we have, it is what we are ie, living souls.
Why don't you address the scripture he referenced? Scripture teaches that we are living souls made up of body, soul and spirit. The word "soul" has more than one definition. Are the following verses in your Bible?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.