The (Two Witnesses) Revelation 11:3-12 Will Be Literal Prophets Returned, In Literal Physical Bodies

[No Pre-TB]

Not a valid point. Outside of the city and in the city is the same exact thing. It's speaking of general location not exact location.

It is valid because of its context and grammar. Being crucified outside of a city is not the same as inside a city. The word for “in” versus “out” are opposites. If you think it’s generalizing, what else in this book are we going to generalize?

Jerusalem is called the great city in Rev.

It’s not. Let me explain, 8 times the great city is used to describe Babylon. One time it’s used in Rev 21:10 to describe the New Jerusalem. It’s never used in Revelation to describe literal Jerusalem.

You add too much that isn't required. The two prophets die a literal death. Any arguments that deny that deny the text as written.

I don’t deny what’s written. I take issue with how someone interprets what’s written.

This is the same error Amill makes when it symbolizes everything to change what the text says.

I’m not changing what it says. Revelation is a book of symbols, Given in the spirit. Let’s assume it’s a literal 2 witnesses. Do you believe human beings will breathe fire out of their mouth? I do not and have reasons for it.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Actually God did call the Christian Jews out of Jerusalem just before she was destroyed by Rome.

You misunderstood me. Yes, people left Jerusalem before the siege in the time leading up to 70AD. I was speaking about a verse in Revelation calling God’s people to come out of mystery Babylon, not Jerusalem in 70AD. I do not take Revelation as mostly historical as some do. Hope that helps.

 

[No Pre-TB]

It was a typo I edited it I meant to say not holy but a whore

Holy Whore!
Hilarious. Reading that between you two was funny.

Edit: I saw an article today on that a women talks about her sex life. What was interesting was she goes on about over +10 partners over her life and the picture of her for this article has her wearing a necklace with the crucifix!
Holy Whore?

 

[quietthinker]

You claim the scripture below is metaphor, please explain your claims made, what does it mean in Revelation 11:3-12 below?

Zechariah 4:12-14 uses metaphor, then it explains and interprets the metaphor "These Are The Two Anointed Ones" and uses the personal pronoun "Themselves"

Zechariah 4:12-14KJV
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Personal Pronouns:They, Them, Their?

1.) Scripture below clearly states the (Two Witnesses) have literal physical bodies that die "Their Dead Bodies", and they stand upon literal physical feet "They Stood Upon Their Feet"?

2.) Scripture below clearly teaches a literal world is watching in celebration of their deaths, exchanging literal gifts?

How do you justify putting the literal seen below into symbolic metaphor?

Revelation 11:3-12KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The central theme around which this revolves is the Gospel, its proclamation and the opposition it faces as is the majority of the rest of Revelation. Keep in mind the books opening words; 'the revelation of Jesus Christ '

 

[Truth7t7]

The central theme around which this revolves is the Gospel, its proclamation and the opposition it faces as is the majority of the rest of Revelation. Keep in mind the books opening words; 'the revelation of Jesus Christ '

The main theme of the future literal (Two Witnesses) is God's Judgements In Literal Plagues Upon A Literal World, A Literal Remake Of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, "100% Future Literal"

The (Two Witnesses) bring God's judgment upon (The Beast) and wicked world through ",Plagues"

"Many" claim the historical biblical plagues of Egypt were literal, and the same "Many" falsely claim that the plagues seen below are symbolic metaphor "Wrong"!

Revelation 11:6 & 10KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[ewq1938]

It is valid because of its context and grammar. Being crucified outside of a city is not the same as inside a city.

It's still the same meaning. Stop applying modern English understanding to ancient Greek.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

So your position is that Jesus was crucified in the streets of Babylon?? lol

Make up your confused mind. Was Jesus crucified in or outside of a city??

 

[Truth7t7]

It’s not. Let me explain, 8 times the great city is used to describe Babylon.

The great city "Babylon" where Jesus was crucified?

Amazing at how far one will go to promote a teaching and belief

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[No Pre-TB]

It's still the same meaning. Stop applying modern English understanding to ancient Greek.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

So your position is that Jesus was crucified in the streets of Babylon?? lol

Make up your confused mind. Was Jesus crucified in or outside of a city??

I did not say Christ was slain in the streets of Babylon. Why take peoples words and distort them? Jesus was crucified outside the city in Judea where it’s said “outside the gates”.
Hebrews 13:12

In knowing that, and as I said earlier, I find an interesting parallel to “crucifying Christ afresh” with apostates to whom these 2 witnesses will preach to.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The great city "Babylon" where Jesus was crucified?

Amazing at how far one will go to promote a teaching and belief

Jesus Is The Lord

It sounds like you’re looking to argue and not trying to understand. Is that your point? As I said, all 8 times the “great city” refers to mystery Babylon. Not literal Babylon.

Chapter 18 is all about Babylon falling. Do you mean you interpret spiritual Babylon as a spiritual Egypt and spiritual Sodom all as Jerusalem?

I recognize this wouldn’t apply to now, and anything is possible in the future, but do you see Jerusalem as the leading economic city on the earth? Like New York City in the 90s? Where everyone will mourn her death because of all the things they got from her? Jerusalem is not that big of an exporter and as I said, maybe that’ll change one day. But I see Babylon as the spiritual influence on the world and not a particular city. With the 2 witnesses, Christ sent out 2 by 2 of his apostles. Though 2 went out here or there, they were not the only ones sent as Paul and one went one way and Peter and such another. For the 2 are candle sticks and there is a thought they also represent either 2 church types or perhaps 1 church but 2 parts. One person has mentioned Gentile and Jew, but I do not ascribe to that because we are all one in Christ. If 2 men represent 2 churches, Revelation 1:20, what is the rest of those 2 churches doing? This is not an argument for you Truth. I’m more thinking generally about God’s word and enjoy pondering scripture and its application. There were many schools of thought on it and I find them fascinating though only 1 can be the correct interpretation.

 

[Truth7t7]

It sounds like you’re looking to argue and not trying to understand. Is that your point? As I said, all 8 times the “great city” refers to mystery Babylon. Not literal Babylon.

Chapter 18 is all about Babylon falling. Do you mean you interpret spiritual Babylon as a spiritual Egypt and spiritual Sodom all as Jerusalem?

I recognize this wouldn’t apply to now, and anything is possible in the future, but do you see Jerusalem as the leading economic city on the earth? Like New York City in the 90s? Where everyone will mourn her death because of all the things they got from her? Jerusalem is not that big of an exporter and as I said, maybe that’ll change one day. But I see Babylon as the spiritual influence on the world and not a particular city. With the 2 witnesses, Christ sent out 2 by 2 of his apostles. Though 2 went out here or there, they were not the only ones sent as Paul and one went one way and Peter and such another. For the 2 are candle sticks and there is a thought they also represent either 2 church types or perhaps 1 church but 2 parts. One person has mentioned Gentile and Jew, but I do not ascribe to that because we are all one in Christ. If 2 men represent 2 churches, Revelation 1:20, what is the rest of those 2 churches doing? This is not an argument for you Truth. I’m more thinking generally about God’s word and enjoy pondering scripture and its application. There were many schools of thought on it and I find them fascinating though only 1 can be the correct interpretation.

The "Great City" below is Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified

It appears your arguing against the basic facts before your eyes, your trying to sell ice at the North Pole in the middle of winter, and nobody is buying it

Jesus Is The Lord

"The Great City = Jerusalem"

Revelation 11:8KJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The (Two Witnesses) will be literal prophets returned, that bring literal plagues upon this literal earth, they have physical bodies that die, that lay in a literal street, as a literal world watches in celebration of their deaths

Pretty close, except they have Glorious bodies that can not be killed unless God allows it. Notice it says they can not be harmed by anyone less that harm comes onto them, THEN it says that Apollyon, the Beast from the bottomless pit kills the Two-witnesses, but why does God all of the sudden allow them to die? Ever think about that? God allows this, which they never really "die die die", if you know what I mean, but God allow them to die even with Glorious bodies but again, WHY? The North star gives us a bearing and likewise THE TIMELINE of the end time is like the North star. Everything is centered around a 1260 Troubles in which both God's Wrath starts AND the Anti-Christ is allowed to go forth conquering, this this 1260 is like the North star for navigation. Hence, God also gives the Two-witnesses AND the Beast both 1260 day Ordained by God "office timelines", the Beast's timeline just so happens to parallel with the Wrath of God (because God planned it that way of course).

Now, if we understand plan English (the bible) we can see the Beast dies when Jesus returns of course, but the Two-witnesses as we know dies at the end of the 2nd Woe, this is God was of giving us a "navigational timeline" if you know what I mean. THIS MANDATES that the Two-witnesses have to show up BEFORE the Beast starts Conquering and JUST BEFORE the Day of the Lord arrives. Does that fit? Yes, we are told in Malachi 4:5-6 that Elijah shows up BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord to turn his people back unto God. We also see in Zechariah 13:8-9 that 1/3 of Israel turn back to God and the very next verse (Zechariah 14:1) says the DOTL arrives/cometh, then Jerusalem gets sacked.

Putting all of this together is how I came to understand that the Two-witnesses are the "1335 Blessing". Now we can know (North star navigation like) that the Two-witnesses show up 75 days before the Day of the Lord AND Beast goes forth conquering. Thus we also know the last Woe must last around 75 days because as soon as the Two-witnesses die it says the 3rd Woe comes quickly. They have to die 75 days before the Beast dies so both will have 1260 day Ordained Offices.

Yes, they lay on the streets "as dead" same thing, God allows their glorious bodies to die or just commands their spirit to join Him in heaven for 3.5 days, its semantics on that part. I do not believe they can be killed no more than an Angel can be killed in reality, God just allows it, like I stated, its semantics. I also think they are allowed to die for a specific reason other than the timelines. I do not think there is any Euphrates River that has to "dry up" in order for an end time Army to cross it, I think its a metaphor. It makes no sense, today's armies can cross rivers in a few hours. So what does it really mean? Well, the celebration in the streets sort of gives us a clue. As you stated, the Two-witnesses bring every plague upon mankind, by the time the Second Woe ends billions have been killed by these plagues, the Four Trumps (Apophis Asteroid) and he first two woes kill billions, so as Seal 6 says (which is only a Prophetic Utterance by Jesus about the coming Trump Judgments) these people will be hiding in caves, begging rocks to fall on them, they are at their ends wit, they hate God and his Two-witnesses, so how can Satan, the Anti-Christ and False Prophet ever entice they cowards to COME OUT of their "caves/hiding places" and go to the Meggido site to try and defeat God?

Because God dries up their problem "Their Euphrates River barrier so to speak" which has really been the Two-witnesses who they see physically praying for certain events and these events always come to pass BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, like clockwork. So, God allows them to die, then the first 5 Vials happen, more die, then God DRIES UP THE RIVER (No more Plagues hit for a while) and thus now Satan, the Anti-Christ and False Prophet can entice them into going to Israel to kill the rest of the Jews so that there can never be another "Two-witnesses type situation". In other word God allows the Two-witnesses to die to give us a TIMELINE, and to give the cowards hiding in caves the courage to gather together at Armageddon one last time. Then Jesus returns, you see, it is Gods desire to wipe out every man willing to gather to kill the Jews, the rest seem to be allowed to live, they bring presents to the king of Israel Jesus every year.

The "Golden Oil" represents the "Golden Vials" full of the seven last plagues

Exactly, but I really think it represents the 7 Trumps, of which the 7 Vials is the 3rd Woe, the reason I went this direction was in Rev. 15, many years ago. It says the 7 "Last Plagues" fills up God's Wrath, so in other words all of God's plagues are his wrath, Trumps 1-4 and Woes 1 and 2. Bit I agree the 7 Vials end the plagues of God.

Tell Marty that the Transfiguration proves his theory in error. (SMILE). The Disciples say Moses & Elijah.

 

[No Pre-TB]

It appears your arguing against the basic facts before your eyes, your trying to sell ice at the North Pole in the middle of winter, and nobody is buying it

Is that really necessary? Is it possible to present your view without sarcasm? I may disagree with you but am disrespecting you because of a difference? No. Learn how to talk to people, or at least try to show compassion, love and respect even if you disagree. Try modeling Christ, not Satan.

 

[Truth7t7]

Is that really necessary? Is it possible to present your view without sarcasm? I may disagree with you but am disrespecting you because of a difference? No. Learn how to talk to people, or at least try to show compassion, love and respect even if you disagree. Try modeling Christ, not Satan.

No disrespect or sarcasm whatsoever, the truth of scripture has been presented, my suggestion is that you follow it

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Timtofly]

I have no idea what you mean here. When did Jesus say that or when did I say that I don’t accept it?

Do you agree with my point?

I agree that the Jews rejected Jesus from the start. The Resurrection of Jesus did not change that.

The point of Lazarus returning is the age long question of life after death. For some it is wonderful. For others it is torment. Even if Lazarus returned, no one would change their minds about a resurrection. They already had the writings of the Hebrew OT as proof.

My point is Christians today don't even accept that Lazarus was given a permanent incorruptible physical body. That is the first resurrection. The Pharisees already accepted and believed in this permanent physical resurrection. That is why every time Paul brought it up, the crowd was divided. Many like the Sadducees rejected any resurrection.

Paul was a Pharisee and knew all the OT writings. A physical resurrection was no issue. Even Mary a representative of the common folk knew these facts. The point is this rich man and all his family high ranking Pharisees were headed for sheol and not Abraham's bosom. They thought they had the knowledge and even observed the Law, but Jesus said they were dead in their sin, where it counts, their hearts.

That is why they rejected Jesus, and that is why any one returning in a physical resurrection would not convince them, even if one returned from sheol or Abraham's bosom.

I don't need hundreds of different passages throughout the Bible to corroborate a point in Scripture. One time is enough. It seems many posters need it spelled out over and over in God's Word before they are convinced. Yes, two or three witnesses make a point. But yet it seems even though the whole of Abraham's bosom came out of their graves, no one made a big deal of it at the time, and it never convinced the Jews as was promised.

My point is that all these people were given permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Because they experienced the first resurrection, which is out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, not back into Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They were about to enter Paradise, where Adam's dead corruptible flesh was not permitted.

The first resurrection is not about a spiritual experience.

The acceptance of a resurrection would never convince the apostate Jews they were wrong in their doctrines. One coming back would not convince them of their error. Since they had 2 witnesses, Jesus and Lazarus, did they need that third witness? If they rejected Lazarus and Jesus, they would be back to having no witnesses at all. In fact the resurrection of Lazarus caused them to double down on getting rid of Jesus.

That example of a first resurrection, meant they were totally wrong about Jesus.

 

[Timtofly]

Most if not all were prophets but the prophecy doesn't require any of them to be prophets.

I'm just proving it wasn't Apostate Israel that killed all of them so they can't be identified as Babylon, nor can Jerusalem which is called Holy in Rev 11. Babylon was never holy nor called that.

It is not just about the wording though. Jesus is coming to earth to set up His throne in Jerusalem. Satan is not going to move that throne and temple to any other city. Satan will rule from Jerusalem over his Babylonian empire.

 

[Timtofly]

If the olive trees and the candlesticks are metaphorical, why not the two prophets of which there are numerous texts available to indicate this?

Do individuals represent Christ? Is Christ metaphorical? Are you metaphorical? The usage of the olive trees and candlesticks are metaphorical. That 2 bodies will lay dead is literal, not metaphorical.

Even the term beast is metaphorical throughout the book. There are no literal beast. The beast like descriptions are depictions of character. Like when posters are called trolls or bots. They are not literal trolls or bots, that is their character. Even the 4 beasts described in Revelation 4:6-9 do not look like literal beasts. They are the same two olive trees and two candlesticks. They are literal humans. The metaphor is used to place them in history. The beast description depicts their character and how they served God while on the earth. That they had eyes covering their whole body is figurative of the term witness. These 4 humans literally were a witness of God's power on earth at different times and for different purposes.

Some people add to the metaphor already there making them out to be more than what John already mentioned. That two are candlesticks places them in the NT. That 2 are olive trees places them in the OT. They are not literally the OT and the NT, nor the Law and the prophets. John is not making that point. They are literal beings, and humans at that. They are all descendants of Adam. They have been redeemed from the earth and serve a special purpose. The 2 from the OT are the two who appeared as a witness on the mount of Transfiguration. But John points out 4 and states 2 are from the OT, and 2 are from the NT. And since John was literally taken from the first century and physically experienced all that he saw, he would be the third witness. That 4th witness is the unknown witness.

 

[Timtofly]

It is valid because of its context and grammar. Being crucified outside of a city is not the same as inside a city. The word for “in” versus “out” are opposites. If you think it’s generalizing, what else in this book are we going to generalize?

"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

Where does this verse claim Jesus was crucified in the city?

Jesus was not crucified near Rome. Jesus was not crucified near Babylon. Jesus was crucified near Jerusalem.

Since Jesus was not crucified in any city, John did not convey the point of crucifixion was in any city. Your point is moot as John is not saying in any city to begin with.

"Where" is not generalizing. The "where" is pointing to Jerusalem. No one is interpreting that Jesus was crucified in the street of Jerusalem. That seems to be all your strawman argument. The 2 witnesses are dead in the street, sure. No one is saying they were crucified on crosses, because that is how Jesus died, either.

 

[ewq1938]

I did not say Christ was slain in the streets of Babylon. Why take peoples words and distort them?

What city is referred to as the great city in Rev 11?

 

[quietthinker]

Do individuals represent Christ? Is Christ metaphorical? Are you metaphorical? The usage of the olive trees and candlesticks are metaphorical. That 2 bodies will lay dead is literal, not metaphorical.

Even the term beast is metaphorical throughout the book. There are no literal beast. The beast like descriptions are depictions of character. Like when posters are called trolls or bots. They are not literal trolls or bots, that is their character. Even the 4 beasts described in Revelation 4:6-9 do not look like literal beasts. They are the same two olive trees and two candlesticks. They are literal humans. The metaphor is used to place them in history. The beast description depicts their character and how they served God while on the earth. That they had eyes covering their whole body is figurative of the term witness. These 4 humans literally were a witness of God's power on earth at different times and for different purposes.

Some people add to the metaphor already there making them out to be more than what John already mentioned. That two are candlesticks places them in the NT. That 2 are olive trees places them in the OT. They are not literally the OT and the NT, nor the Law and the prophets. John is not making that point. They are literal beings, and humans at that. They are all descendants of Adam. They have been redeemed from the earth and serve a special purpose. The 2 from the OT are the two who appeared as a witness on the mount of Transfiguration. But John points out 4 and states 2 are from the OT, and 2 are from the NT. And since John was literally taken from the first century and physically experienced all that he saw, he would be the third witness. That 4th witness is the unknown witness.

I'm sorry Tim, your position is not persuasive.

 

[Timtofly]

It sounds like you’re looking to argue and not trying to understand. Is that your point? As I said, all 8 times the “great city” refers to mystery Babylon. Not literal Babylon.

Chapter 18 is all about Babylon falling. Do you mean you interpret spiritual Babylon as a spiritual Egypt and spiritual Sodom all as Jerusalem?

I recognize this wouldn’t apply to now, and anything is possible in the future, but do you see Jerusalem as the leading economic city on the earth? Like New York City in the 90s? Where everyone will mourn her death because of all the things they got from her? Jerusalem is not that big of an exporter and as I said, maybe that’ll change one day. But I see Babylon as the spiritual influence on the world and not a particular city. With the 2 witnesses, Christ sent out 2 by 2 of his apostles. Though 2 went out here or there, they were not the only ones sent as Paul and one went one way and Peter and such another. For the 2 are candle sticks and there is a thought they also represent either 2 church types or perhaps 1 church but 2 parts. One person has mentioned Gentile and Jew, but I do not ascribe to that because we are all one in Christ. If 2 men represent 2 churches, Revelation 1:20, what is the rest of those 2 churches doing? This is not an argument for you Truth. I’m more thinking generally about God’s word and enjoy pondering scripture and its application. There were many schools of thought on it and I find them fascinating though only 1 can be the correct interpretation.

I am curious if you think Peter died in Babylon or Rome. How far do you take literal and figurative in the NT? Peter obeyed Jesus. I think Peter traveled the whole Roman Empire and visited every city there was a synagogue and cities that did not. He went in a circle up through Turkey and Greece, through Rome, and Europe. Went from Spain to Africa and ended up in Babylon. Peter did not travel to Rome and sat out the rest of his life. That is the propaganda of the apostate church, rewriting history. No I don't care if any one agrees or not.

At the 6th Seal, Jesus comes to the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14. The whole earth is changed. All the continents and mountain ranges change back to pre-Flood condition of one single continent. No one is killed at the 6th Seal. The 4th Seal was the judgment of death at that point.

That is when Jesus sets up His throne and Jerusalem is the capital of this new world just baptized in fire. All this Babylonian empire stuff, and the ten kingdoms, don't even start until after the 7th Trumpet starts.

Jesus is king and the first 6 Trumpet and 7 Thunders is the final harvest, the GT. Even then the kingdoms that still think they have a say are declared under the authority of Jesus at the celebration of the 7th Trumpet.

If Satan is given 42 months. He creates this new beast after the declaration of the 7th Trumpet. Many think all this has to happen before the Second Coming. That is the wrong scenario people of 150 years ago started to imagine in their minds. That the Second Coming is in Revelation 19 seems to be a modern invention. The ten toes of Daniel 2 is not this future beast. Daniel's ten toes was destroyed by the Reformation, and the church was decentralized, and literally spread across the world after the Reformation. And even more so with the industrial revolution and the British empire. Unfortunately so did slavery and the RCC.

I think Daniel did see modern nations arise after the ten toes. Even so people still conflate past history and Satan's new empire. Even the timing is all wrong when they do that. Many put the 70th week all in the wrong place. It was not all in the first century. It will not be all at the Second Coming.

Revelation 17 and 18 literally have no basis in Daniel, even though the metaphor is the same imagery. The kingdoms are not, because no one can even say who or what is left after the 4th Seal wipes out 2 billion people, and the 6th Seal changes the 6 major continents back into a single continent. With all the mountains in new locations all borders will change. If you don't think natural borders will cause this, and claim this is just metaphor:

"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

The result is still the same that all new kingdoms are formed, even if you reject the geographical implications. All kingdoms and borders are moved out of their places. It simply makes sense this is not just theoretical. The change in geography goes hand in hand with the changes in governmental authority. In other words it is God reversing the tower of babel, and not just human power grabs. That Satan will once again build his Babylon, even based in Jerusalem is a given, if he is allowed those 42 months. Satan will take over the throne and temple Jesus set up at the Second Coming. So your pre-trib scenario cannot work since Jesus is the one who establishes Jerusalem as the world's capital. More than likely the only city built immediately after the 6th Seal, as Jesus brought his own builders the angels with Him, or He could make it happen without any help. If we had been given all the details no one would be in disagreement.

Since the Day of the Lord is sudden without warning, the 4th Seal will be that way as well. Obviously the 4th Seal would be an indication the next Seals are about to happen. But humans will not instigate the 4th Seal. Only Jesus can do that, when God declares it is the right time. Then immediately after those days, the church will not have much time if caught off guard, like the 10 virgins.