The Very First Sin

[veteran]

To my brethren and sisters in Christ Jesus.

Most of us well know how Adam and Eve sinned in disobeying God's commandment to not partake of the tree in the midst of His Garden of Eden, and how that sin was imparted to all men because of that sin (Rom.5:12). That was the first flesh sin of this present world. But it was not... the very first sin who sinned in the beginning against our Heavenly Father. Don't fall for the trick of thinking Adam and Eve's was the very first sin ever. Our Heavenly Father in His Word has more to show you about it.

I Jn 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
(KJV)

Apostle John tells us that the devil, i.e., Satan, is who sinned from the beginning. From what... beginning though? From the time of the devil as "that old serpent" tempting Adam and Eve to sin in God's Garden? No. You can easily do a search here for my posts where I cover the subject of God originally creating Satan as a good cherub that was pefect in his ways at the first, following God right at His Throne (Ezek.28). I also covered how that Ezek.28 and Isaiah 14 Scripture giving a parable or proverb of how Satan first sinned against God, with his wanting to BE GOD, coveting God's Throne. Those descriptions are in parable form about Satan.

Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(KJV)


Notice also in the above 1 John 3:8 verse that Satan having sinned from the beginning is why... our Lord Jesus Christ was manifested on earth to die on the cross, so as to destroy the works of the devil. Those two ideas are emphatic and together in that verse, as to when our Lord Jesus was first foreordained to be born in the flesh to do that.


1 Pet 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
(KJV)

Did you get that? These Scriptures reveal that our Lord Jesus was "foreordained before the foundation of the world" to come in the flesh in order to defeat death and the devil. In other words, Christ was foreordained to die on the cross PRIOR to the time of Adam and Eve even, and thus before... Adam and Eve had sinned.

Do you understand what this means? It means simply, that some OTHER event PRIOR to the time of Adam and Eve, which happened prior to the founding of this world, is what caused the foreordaining of Christ's coming to die on the cross. 1 John 3 emphatically points to that prior event with Satan having sinned from the beginning.

With that understood, these following Scriptures should mean more to us...
Eph 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
(KJV)

That Ephesians 1:3-4 Scripture is just of how our Lord Jesus knows everything, so He knows beforehand who would follow Him in this world, right? That's often what we're told by those who don't really know the real meaning of these Scriptures per the above. You'll have to think a lot on that one, because He did not speak to everyone in parables, but opened His chosen one's eyes and ears, giving them eyes to see, and ears to hear...
Matt 13:34-35
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake He not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."
(KJV)

Just what things have been kept secret from the foundation of the world? Is it only that Christ's Salvation would also go to the Gentiles and many of them would believe on Him? That's what many of our preachers quickly revert to in answer to this. Those parables include the subject above about the time of the very first sin against God when Satan originally rebelled, in a time prior to Adam and Eve.

Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
(KJV)

Once again, that idea points back to why... Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world, i.e., in order to destroy the works of the devil. Again, it was because the devil sinned from the beginning like Apostle John said.

Is your mind ready to understand one of the parables in God's Word of when the devil sinned from the beginning? Did you even know that God gave us a detail of how Satan was originally exalted before he rebelled? Let's go there, if you think you are ready to understand...

I hope our Heavenly Father won't be angry by my revealing this to 'babes' ready for it. I really don't think those not given will understand it anyway...

Ezek 31:1-18
1 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 "Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; 'Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

God tells His prophet Ezekiel to go speak to Pharaoh king of Egypt. And then God begins speaking of this Assyrian in a parable. For those who may not be aware, a parable in God's Word is a story using real objects to reveal another matter, often a deeper Truth or Message. In this case that Assyrian (king of Assyria) is the object God is using here. He's not really speaking about the flesh king of Assyria in this we will easily discover later here. God is using him as a TYPE for another.

The "cedar of Lebanon" is used here as a symbol for royalty (see Ezek.17; Daniel 4 with Neb's dream). We're given an image of a glorious tree with fair branches and large shadowing shroud giving a lot of shade, of great height with its tops among the thick boughs. But this is not about a real tree, it's a comparison or analogy to the Assyrian king.

4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

This image is of a great tree in the center with waters flowing outward from it to all the plants around it, and then flowing outward further to water all the other trees of the field. That compared to a king suggests a great king from which flowed goodness and blessed life throughout his kingdom. But "the deep" of waters suggests they come from another source greater than the king, and that source (God) is Who exalted him thus.

5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

Because of that "multitude of waters" he was exalted. If the waters were cut off, the tree would become destitute and die. So the waters fed him and sustained him.

6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

His boughs (branches) were so hardy they gave plenty of comfort to the fowls for nests, and cast much shade for all the beasts of the field, and under that shadow dwelt... what??? ... "all great nations"!

What happened here? God was giving us this parable about the Assyrian as a high cedar, plants, river of waters, fowls, beasts of the field, great shade, and then brings up the matter of 'nations'? Is He now pointing directly to the king of Assyria and nations he had conquered? Is the parable description now over? Let's keep going to find out.

7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

Wait a minute. Now God reverts us back to the parable of the high cedar. What gives? What is our Heavenly Father trying to show us on a deeper note here? We find out in the next verse...

8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

What's this "garden of God"? Could our Heavenly Father be speaking of His Garden of Eden? Wait a minute. Were any... of the flesh kings of Assyria ever in His Garden of Eden? Absolutely not! And were any of the flesh kings of Assyria ever regarded in this beauty aspect? No way. Just who... is our Heavenly Father really... talking about in this parable?

9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

Now there's absolutely no mistaking that our Heavenly Father is talking about one who was in His Garden of Eden, and not some flesh king of Assyria! Who would have been in God's Garden of Eden like this? And all the other trees in God's Eden envied him because of his fairness and beauty? Just who was this?

10 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.

Oh, it's becoming clearer now. This one who was like a great cedar, exalted by great waters, with all the other trees envying him, was Satan before he rebelled against God!

The following Ezek.31 verses become much clearer now that Satan is who God is really speaking this about.


12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
13 Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
14 To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
15 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.

Important to note the descriptions of when he was a high cedar fed by great waters, that was in a time before... he rebelled against God. Does that maybe mean these other trees and "nations" even, was of a previous world prior to Adam and Eve?

16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Did actual nations exist... at the time of Satan's original rebellion and fall? That's what our Heavenly Father is suggesting here if you'll notice. Now we can grasp why He weaved the idea of "nations" back and forth within this high cedar parable about Satan. Is there any other Scripture pointing to the idea of nations existing at the time of Satan's original rebellion? YES! It's within the Revelation 12:3-4 Scripture about a beast kingdom that had ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. The beast kingdom of Rev.13:1, which is for the end of this world, is to have ten horns, seven heads, but ten crowns (an additional three).

17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.
(KJV)

Ah, for those not given to understand this parable, God seals it with speaking this to Pharaoh. Therefore some will say, "See there, He wasn't speaking about Satan, He was speaking about and to Pharaoh!" The whole Message IS... for Pharaoh, we learned that from the start of the chapter. But the whole Message is not all... about Pharaoh, nor about the flesh king of Assyria, unless you truly believe that flesh kings were ever in God's Garden of Eden!

"How can this be possible that nations once existed on this earth when Satan first sinned against God?," some will protest?

If you're asking yourself that, that's good. You might just be on the start of understanding things in God's Word that He more or less hid from the profane.

 

[dragonfly]

unless you truly believe that flesh kings were ever in God's Garden of Eden

Hi veteran,

Surely it is not necessary to believe that flesh kings were ever in the garden of Eden, to make sense of the reference to nations?

You began your post with emphasis on what had been ordained before the foundation of the world/creation of the earth, including Ephesians 1:4.

We know that 'in Adam all die', and that we could not be in Christ from before the foundation of the world unless the lamb had been slain before the foundation of the world, as you indicated. That alone suggests that we were all there, already, doesn't it?

Yes, we had not been born at our appointed time, but we were all present in the sense that we were known by God before we knew ourselves. Yes?

 

[veteran]

Hi veteran,

Surely it is not necessary to believe that flesh kings were ever in the garden of Eden, to make sense of the reference to nations?

You began your post with emphasis on what had been ordained before the foundation of the world/creation of the earth, including Ephesians 1:4.

We know that 'in Adam all die', and that we could not be in Christ from before the foundation of the world unless the lamb had been slain before the foundation of the world, as you indicated. That alone suggests that we were all there, already, doesn't it?

Yes, we had not been born at our appointed time, but we were all present in the sense that we were known by God before we knew ourselves. Yes?

Uh, no. That's not what those Scriptures I started with are actually pointing to.

Both Apostles John and Peter pointed to the reason for Christ's coming to die on the cross being in order to defeat the works of the devil, and by that Christ overcame death for us, defeating death for us upon His cross so that we might have eternal life (Heb.2:14; 1 John 3:8). So because the point of that being to defeat the devil and his works, power of death, one MUST... go back to the time when the devil first sinned against God.

This is why the Ezekiel 31 Scripture with God speaking it for Pharaoh, but to include how He originally exalted the cherub Satan in the beginning before the rebellion, aligns with that beast kingdom of old that was mentioned in Rev.12:3-4, which includes the time when Satan drew a third of the stars (angels) into rebellion with him. We know that did NOT occur in the time of Adam and Eve nor even Pharaoh, etc., but prior... to the time of Adam and Eve, prior to God forming Adam in His Garden. Thus there's no mistaking that God was talking about Satan in the Ezekiel 31 chapter with "the Assyrian", but in the form of a parable about the devil. It is a very simple matter to understand that Pharaoh, the king of Assyria, etc., were not in God's Garden of Eden. This kind of pointer exists in the Ezekiel 28 chapter also, and is even more emphatic with God pointing directly to the "anointed cherub that covereth", which can never be about any flesh man born on this earth.

I know many of you don't understand this about "the world that then was" which God overflowed with water per 2 Pet.3, and think that was about the days of Noah. Yet many brethren do understand this, including many Christian pastors. My understanding of it per God's Word is that the "world that then was" when Satan first sinned against God, and under his shadow dwelt "nations" of a beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns of Rev.12:3-4 (when he drew a third of the angels in rebellion with him), that that old world was an angelic type existence upon this earth. That old world involved the existence of pre-historic remains that have been found in fossils upon the earth, which includes tropical fossils in desert regions and in polar regions. In that respect, God's Garden of Eden in the old world prior to Adam and Eve was a tropic Paradise over all... the earth. Just as today's state of the heavens and earth can not be compared to the glory of God's future new heavens and a new earth (per Paul in Rom.8), likewise that old world prior to Satan's rebellion can not be compared to today's state of the heavens and earth since Adam.

I know some of you here will begin to understand this within God's Word with more study. Some of you know already. And then some of you will be like Peter said in 2 Peter 3, "willingly ignorant" of this matter.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi veteran,

I am not entirely unsympathetic to the interpretation that there was an earth before the one into which Adam was placed, but I am unsympathetic to the idea that Satan's effect on Adam and Eve through their disobedience to God, did not affect their flesh. You must, I think, be aware of the suggestion that one of the effects of the Fall, was the loss of the 'covering glory' which concealed Adam and Eve's nakedness?

There is also the possibility that their bodies were not of a resistant material, as ours are, until the Fall. If sin had such a profound effect on Adam's body and those of his descendants, then surely that is an effect on 'the flesh man' by 'anointed cherub that covereth'?

It may be that the 'covering' which 'the anointed cherub' extended over all mankind, is very much something to do with being imprisoned by physical limitations and subject to demon infestation, as well as the spiritual bondage from which we are delivered through identification with Christ's death.

 

[veteran]

... but I am unsympathetic to the idea that Satan's effect on Adam and Eve through their disobedience to God, did not affect their flesh. You must, I think, be aware of the suggestion that one of the effects of the Fall, was the loss of the 'covering glory' which concealed Adam and Eve's nakedness?

The starting verses I covered suggest a different matter than men's traditions on the idea of Adam and Eve's fall. Like Apostle Paul said, sin is not imparted where there is no law. Doesn't mean the ability to sin was not present yet. We know it was because of what happened, and because Christ had already been foreordained to come to destroy death and the works of the devil. This is why Biblically Apostle Paul pointed to our flesh body as "the body of sin", while later Bible translations try to get totally away from that idea about the flesh just so people can be deceived about what part of our being is actually resurrected after flesh death.

There is also the possibility that their bodies were not of a resistant material, as ours are, until the Fall. If sin had such a profound effect on Adam's body and those of his descendants, then surely that is an effect on 'the flesh man' by 'anointed cherub that covereth'?

We have the same exact genetic makeup as God gave Adam and Eve. That has not changed. The ordained numbers of years to live in the flesh was changed by God, but not our fleshy makeup.

Satan as the anointed cherub that covereth is a heavenly body pointer, not a flesh body pointer.

It may be that the 'covering' which 'the anointed cherub' extended over all mankind, is very much something to do with being imprisoned by physical limitations and subject to demon infestation, as well as the spiritual bondage from which we are delivered through identification with Christ's death.

You're getting way far... away from Bibllcal Scripture with that line of supposition. A little supposition is alright, but it must... stay within the bounds of the written Scripture.

The idea of covereth for the devil in the parable of Ezek.28 was about Satan's duties PRIOR to his rebellion. It was his job to protect the Mercy Seat, The Throne. Do you remember seeing images of the ark of the covenant with two cherubs with their wings overspread the Mercy Seat per God's commandment for Israel to construct it? (Exo.25). Satan was originally one of those covering cherubs guarding the Mercy Seat. His sin was that he coveted... that Throne for Himself in wanting to be GOD.

 

[dragonfly]

The starting verses I covered suggest a different matter than men's traditions on the idea of Adam and Eve's fall. Like Apostle Paul said, sin is not imparted where there is no law.

Don't you think that when God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because in the day that they did so, they would die, was His exposition of a 'law'?

 

[veteran]

Don't you think that when God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because in the day that they did so, they would die, was His exposition of a 'law'?

Yes, and with that commandment they sinned against Him. But you were talking about the 'state' of their existence without sin as if it were an example of Christ's Salvation, which is a false tradition simply because in Christ's Salvation there will be no more opportunity for sin. With Adam and Eve the opportunity was there, setup to happen even one could say. We know that because of Scripture like Galatians 3:22.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

As I have tried to show before that Satan is the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil that produces fruit to be LIKE GOD for God says that man has become like us knowing good and evil because they ate of the forbidden tree that was among all the trees in the garden of Eden.
Gen 3:22
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
KJV

God describes rulers as trees and yes iniquity was found first in the serpent who used to be God's RIGHT HAND man the most beautiful of all his creation until he exalted himself, his word over God's Word, who is THE CHRIST the very Tree of life. But the iniquity was found in him in the garden of Eden when he did not correct Eve when she erroneously thought it was the tree in the midst of the garden(tree of life) that was the forbidden tree.. she did not say the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, only the tree in the midst and we know that God placed the tree of life in the midst.... the other trees were just in the garden.
Mark 8:25
24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
KJV
Adam who was in the first world that was destroyed by the flood, was the first man. "Before the foundations of the world" is mentioned 3 times in the new testament. Jesus died in 33 ad which was before the foundation of the new earth to come, as are those being chosen out to be conformed into Jesus' image as kings and priests before the foundation of the NEW world to come.

Rev 1:5-6
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
KJV
Rev 5:10
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV
2 Peter 2:4-5
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness(TORMENT, EVIL), to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
KJV

God only wants his man to know GOOD so that they will be blessed as children of God having no iniquity in them. Made in His image meaning His attributes of His Spirit and His Word. Not willing to steal, kill and destroy as our enemy tries to get us to do.

Jesus died so that we could be given the Spirit of life that helps us to overcome the temptations of the devil(the works of the devil) who tries to keep us in living hell. God forsook His Word, who became flesh, on the cross to remove all the added ordinances that were due to transgressing Christ, breaking the Law/Word to give us a grace period to be trained up in His Christ meaning in His Word so that we no longer bring ourselves back under all those laws that held us captive to them, for the Spirit will have taught us how NOT TO SIN. God separated some of us from our mother's womb(heavenly Jerusalem) before the foundation of the new world to come to raise us up in integrity, godly character in her wisdom to rule and reign with Christ for the 1,000 yrs.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi veteran,

But you were talking about the 'state' of their existence without sin as if it were an example of Christ's Salvation,

Where did I do that, please?

 

[afaithfulone4u]

To my brethren and sisters in Christ Jesus.

Most of us well know how Adam and Eve sinned in disobeying God's commandment to not partake of the tree in the midst of His Garden of Eden, and how that sin was imparted to all men because of that sin (Rom.5:12). That was the first flesh sin of this present world. But it was not... the very first sin who sinned in the beginning against our Heavenly Father. Don't fall for the trick of thinking Adam and Eve's was the very first sin ever. Our Heavenly Father in His Word has more to show you about it.

I Jn 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
(KJV)

Apostle John tells us that the devil, i.e., Satan, is who sinned from the beginning. From what... beginning though? From the time of the devil as "that old serpent" tempting Adam and Eve to sin in God's Garden? No. You can easily do a search here for my posts where I cover the subject of God originally creating Satan as a good cherub that was pefect in his ways at the first, following God right at His Throne (Ezek.28). I also covered how that Ezek.28 and Isaiah 14 Scripture giving a parable or proverb of how Satan first sinned against God, with his wanting to BE GOD, coveting God's Throne. Those descriptions are in parable form about Satan.

Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(KJV)


Notice also in the above 1 John 3:8 verse that Satan having sinned from the beginning is why... our Lord Jesus Christ was manifested on earth to die on the cross, so as to destroy the works of the devil. Those two ideas are emphatic and together in that verse, as to when our Lord Jesus was first foreordained to be born in the flesh to do that.


1 Pet 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
(KJV)

Did you get that? These Scriptures reveal that our Lord Jesus was "foreordained before the foundation of the world" to come in the flesh in order to defeat death and the devil. In other words, Christ was foreordained to die on the cross PRIOR to the time of Adam and Eve even, and thus before... Adam and Eve had sinned.

Do you understand what this means? It means simply, that some OTHER event PRIOR to the time of Adam and Eve, which happened prior to the founding of this world, is what caused the foreordaining of Christ's coming to die on the cross. 1 John 3 emphatically points to that prior event with Satan having sinned from the beginning.

With that understood, these following Scriptures should mean more to us...
Eph 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
(KJV)

That Ephesians 1:3-4 Scripture is just of how our Lord Jesus knows everything, so He knows beforehand who would follow Him in this world, right? That's often what we're told by those who don't really know the real meaning of these Scriptures per the above. You'll have to think a lot on that one, because He did not speak to everyone in parables, but opened His chosen one's eyes and ears, giving them eyes to see, and ears to hear...
Matt 13:34-35
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake He not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."
(KJV)

Just what things have been kept secret from the foundation of the world? Is it only that Christ's Salvation would also go to the Gentiles and many of them would believe on Him? That's what many of our preachers quickly revert to in answer to this. Those parables include the subject above about the time of the very first sin against God when Satan originally rebelled, in a time prior to Adam and Eve.

Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
(KJV)

Once again, that idea points back to why... Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world, i.e., in order to destroy the works of the devil. Again, it was because the devil sinned from the beginning like Apostle John said.

Is your mind ready to understand one of the parables in God's Word of when the devil sinned from the beginning? Did you even know that God gave us a detail of how Satan was originally exalted before he rebelled? Let's go there, if you think you are ready to understand...

I hope our Heavenly Father won't be angry by my revealing this to 'babes' ready for it. I really don't think those not given will understand it anyway...

Ezek 31:1-18
1 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 "Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; 'Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

God tells His prophet Ezekiel to go speak to Pharaoh king of Egypt. And then God begins speaking of this Assyrian in a parable. For those who may not be aware, a parable in God's Word is a story using real objects to reveal another matter, often a deeper Truth or Message. In this case that Assyrian (king of Assyria) is the object God is using here. He's not really speaking about the flesh king of Assyria in this we will easily discover later here. God is using him as a TYPE for another.

The "cedar of Lebanon" is used here as a symbol for royalty (see Ezek.17; Daniel 4 with Neb's dream). We're given an image of a glorious tree with fair branches and large shadowing shroud giving a lot of shade, of great height with its tops among the thick boughs. But this is not about a real tree, it's a comparison or analogy to the Assyrian king.

4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

This image is of a great tree in the center with waters flowing outward from it to all the plants around it, and then flowing outward further to water all the other trees of the field. That compared to a king suggests a great king from which flowed goodness and blessed life throughout his kingdom. But "the deep" of waters suggests they come from another source greater than the king, and that source (God) is Who exalted him thus.

5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

Because of that "multitude of waters" he was exalted. If the waters were cut off, the tree would become destitute and die. So the waters fed him and sustained him.

6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

His boughs (branches) were so hardy they gave plenty of comfort to the fowls for nests, and cast much shade for all the beasts of the field, and under that shadow dwelt... what??? ... "all great nations"!

What happened here? God was giving us this parable about the Assyrian as a high cedar, plants, river of waters, fowls, beasts of the field, great shade, and then brings up the matter of 'nations'? Is He now pointing directly to the king of Assyria and nations he had conquered? Is the parable description now over? Let's keep going to find out.

7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

Wait a minute. Now God reverts us back to the parable of the high cedar. What gives? What is our Heavenly Father trying to show us on a deeper note here? We find out in the next verse...

8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

What's this "garden of God"? Could our Heavenly Father be speaking of His Garden of Eden? Wait a minute. Were any... of the flesh kings of Assyria ever in His Garden of Eden? Absolutely not! And were any of the flesh kings of Assyria ever regarded in this beauty aspect? No way. Just who... is our Heavenly Father really... talking about in this parable?

9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

Now there's absolutely no mistaking that our Heavenly Father is talking about one who was in His Garden of Eden, and not some flesh king of Assyria! Who would have been in God's Garden of Eden like this? And all the other trees in God's Eden envied him because of his fairness and beauty? Just who was this?

10 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.

Oh, it's becoming clearer now. This one who was like a great cedar, exalted by great waters, with all the other trees envying him, was Satan before he rebelled against God!

The following Ezek.31 verses become much clearer now that Satan is who God is really speaking this about.


12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
13 Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
14 To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
15 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.

Important to note the descriptions of when he was a high cedar fed by great waters, that was in a time before... he rebelled against God. Does that maybe mean these other trees and "nations" even, was of a previous world prior to Adam and Eve?

16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Did actual nations exist... at the time of Satan's original rebellion and fall? That's what our Heavenly Father is suggesting here if you'll notice. Now we can grasp why He weaved the idea of "nations" back and forth within this high cedar parable about Satan. Is there any other Scripture pointing to the idea of nations existing at the time of Satan's original rebellion? YES! It's within the Revelation 12:3-4 Scripture about a beast kingdom that had ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. The beast kingdom of Rev.13:1, which is for the end of this world, is to have ten horns, seven heads, but ten crowns (an additional three).

17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.
(KJV)

Ah, for those not given to understand this parable, God seals it with speaking this to Pharaoh. Therefore some will say, "See there, He wasn't speaking about Satan, He was speaking about and to Pharaoh!" The whole Message IS... for Pharaoh, we learned that from the start of the chapter. But the whole Message is not all... about Pharaoh, nor about the flesh king of Assyria, unless you truly believe that flesh kings were ever in God's Garden of Eden!

"How can this be possible that nations once existed on this earth when Satan first sinned against God?," some will protest?

If you're asking yourself that, that's good. You might just be on the start of understanding things in God's Word that He more or less hid from the profane.

The devils punishment for not correcting Eve when she had misunderstood which tree was forbidden:
Gen 3:14-19
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Eve's punishment being that she would now have children in her own body and with pain, where as God created them before, and took Eve out of Adam before they had fallen down to and God covered them with skin/carnal flesh:

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

And Adam's punishment because he obeyed his wife instead of God's Word:

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
KJV

 

[veteran]

The devils punishment for not correcting Eve when she had misunderstood which tree was forbidden:
Gen 3:14-19
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Eve's punishment being that she would now have children in her own body and with pain, where as God created them before, and took Eve out of Adam before they had fallen down to and God covered them with skin/carnal flesh:

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

And Adam's punishment because he obeyed his wife instead of God's Word:

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
KJV

Nah, Satan's rebellion happened PRIOR to his time as "that old serpent" tempting Eve.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
(KJV)


1. When did Satan draw a third of the angels ("stars") into rebellion with him? "Duh... in Eden during the time of Adam and Eve??" No, of course not.

2. Why does Rev.12:3 reveal a prior beast kingdom like the one in Rev.13:1 linked with the time of Satan's original rebellion?? "Duh... because that existed during the time of Adam and Eve in God's Garden?" No, absolutely not. That's the beast kingdom of old when Satan first rebelled against God and was first cast out of Heaven by God, prior to the time of Adam and Eve.

3. Did the earth and God's Eden exist back to the time when Satan first rebelled against Him in that time of old?? Yes, you bet it did. Ezekiel 31 reveals it in parable form when Satan was exalted by God prior to his rebellion, which again of course was prior to the time of Adam and Eve.
WHY do some here appear to want to HIDE this issue of Satan's original rebellion against God prior to the time of Adam and Eve? Do you think I preach about it just because I believe God's Word about a previous world prior to this one of today? You're very wrong if you think that. I preach about it because God's Word reveals it, but apparently not to everyone here.

 

[veteran]

Hi veteran,


Where did I do that, please?

With this idea...

"... but I am unsympathetic to the idea that Satan's effect on Adam and Eve through their disobedience to God, did not affect their flesh. You must, I think, be aware of the suggestion that one of the effects of the Fall, was the loss of the 'covering glory' which concealed Adam and Eve's nakedness?"


Because of New Testament Scripture revealed later about man's 'fall' and Christ being foreordained already prior to Adam and Eve, we can know Adam and Eve's sin was a setup for failure of the flesh body of sin.
Rom 5:12-13
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
(KJV)

Even when there is no law it does not mean sin is non-existant, only that sin is not imputed (assigned).

Adam and Eve were partaking of the tree of life in God's Garden which sustained their flesh. But the tree of the knowledge of good... and evil, was already there too, and they were warned about taking of it. That reveals the ability to sin to cause death was already present. And if Adam had not have sinned, where would Christ's pre-ordaining to come to defeat death for us have been?

So it was like someone began on another thread, that the fall of Adam was ordained, setup to occur, and impossible for them to continue under that "covering glory" idea you mention.

And thusly...
Gen 3:22-24
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
(KJV)