The "watch rapture view"

[David in NJ]

I think there is a difference between no longer being a sinner who sins,as one of his redeemed,compared to the idea sin itself has been put to an end. And is no more.

Think Think Think = TRUTH

If Christ did not make an end of sin then no one could be saved and we are all DEAD in trespasses and sins.

 

[pandaflower]

Think Think Think = TRUTH

If Christ did not make an end of sin then no one could be saved and we are all DEAD in trespasses and sins.

Yes,I read you the first time.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes,I read you the first time.

Read and BELIEVE the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE

It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest enters into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world:
but now once in the end of the age hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many;

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 9:23-28

 

[covenantee]

You don't believe that the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 spoke of by Daniel the prophet in Daniel 12:11-12 is still unfulfilled ?

It's not unfulfilled because Luke 21:20 identifies the abomination of desolation as the Roman armies.

 

[Douggg]

It's not unfulfilled because Luke 21:20 identifies the abomination of desolation as the Roman armies.

Daniel the prophet used the term "set up" in regards to the abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Also, "abomination" does not appear in Luke 21:20.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It's not unfulfilled because Luke 21:20 identifies the abomination of desolation as the Roman armies.

Are the Roman armies the abomination of desolation? Nope! Who was compassed by armies, and then the temple destroyed? Have you even read the Old Testament prophesies concerning the compassing with armies. It might interest you comparing scripture with scripture or do you simply rely on Josephus's record of who?

Luk 21:20-24
(20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
(22) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(23) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
(24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

They are all related to the apostasy in the church and its dire results. Apostasy comes from kingdom rising against kingdom, there is spiritual famine, persecution, betrayal, hatred, etc., as in those signs. Indeed, apostasy "IS" Jerusalem compassed with armies! Not physically, but spiritually just as it was revealed in the time of Christ when He fulfilled prophesy of this. It all depends upon how we define God's Word, either by God's Word or by hypothesis and supposition. The New Testament Jerusalem "IS" the church. What armies would encamp against her and surround her but those soldiers spiritually of Satan, just as they did at Christ's first advent, eg. Scribes and Pharisees (Zec 9:8-9). There were no literal/physical battles in Jerusalem then, no literal armies then, and there are no literal/physical battles or armies against the Lord's house in the last days. It is spiritual warfare. For example:

Revelation 20:8-9

• "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
• And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

The beloved city is spiritual Jerusalem, the church. Period! Not physical Jersualem! That is the encampment of the saints. This "IS" where the battle truly takes place. The fight against abomination standing in the holy place. Again, it all depends upon how we define God's Word, either "by" God's word or by presumption in looking at physical nations, battles, famines and warfare.

 

[covenantee]

Daniel the prophet used the term "set up" in regards to the abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Also, "abomination" does not appear in Luke 21:20.

Luke 21:20 refers to Daniel 9:26-27 which references the Roman armies as "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary".

Luke 21:20 does not reference Daniel 12.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Daniel the prophet used the term "set up" in regards to the abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Also, "abomination" does not appear in Luke 21:20.

Luke 21:20 makes it absolutely clear: "When you see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is near." That is the abomination of desolation—not Roman soldiers in 70 AD, but the spiritual invasion of false prophets and false christs flooding the Church with corrupt doctrines. These are the armies surrounding the spiritual Jerusalem, the New Covenant congregation.


When we see this happening—when we recognize the flood of deception, compromise, and apostasy—we will "KNOW" that is the signal: it's time to flee. God has allowed these the armies of Satan (eg Gog and Magog) to enter as judgment upon a rebellious house. The desolation is not merely physical ruin, but spiritual devastation brought on by abominations allowed to fester within. This is a sobering warning to discern the signs and separate from an unfaithful congregation before judgment falls. Pray that your flight (flee) be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day when you see it? Do you understand what winter and sabbath day refers to and WHY? Humm...

 

[TribulationSigns]

Luke 21:20 refers to Daniel 9:26-27 which references the Roman armies as "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary".

Concerning Daniel 9:26 — the common preterist interpretation is false. The "people of the prince that shall come" is not referring to the Roman armies under Titus. That is a distortion of Scripture rooted in false doctrine.


The context makes it unmistakably clear: the Prince is Messiah—the same "Messiah the Prince" mentioned in verse 25. This is Jesus Christ, not some Roman general. His people, at the time of His crucifixion, were the Jews—the people of the Old Covenant congregation. But because of their rejection of the Messiah, that congregation was falling into ruin. “The end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined" upon the Old Testament congregation. Period!


This verse is not about Rome—it’s about the judgment of God upon His own Old Testament rebellious house, the covenant people who rejected their Prince. That is verse 26! Not verse 27. Let Scripture interpret Scripture, not man-made theories.

Luke 21:20 does not reference Daniel 12.

Well, guess what, it does! :-)

 

[Douggg]

Luke 21:20 does not reference Daniel 12.

But Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 do reference Daniel 12:11

 

[covenantee]

But Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 do reference Daniel 12:11

Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 reference Daniel 9:26-27.

There are no Roman armies destroying Jerusalem in Daniel 12.

 

[covenantee]

Concerning Daniel 9:26 — the common preterist interpretation is false. The "people of the prince that shall come" is not referring to the Roman armies under Titus. That is a distortion of Scripture rooted in false doctrine.


The context makes it unmistakably clear: the Prince is Messiah—the same "Messiah the Prince" mentioned in verse 25. This is Jesus Christ, not some Roman general. His people, at the time of His crucifixion, were the Jews—the people of the Old Covenant congregation. But because of their rejection of the Messiah, that congregation was falling into ruin. “The end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined" upon the Old Testament congregation. Period!


This verse is not about Rome—it’s about the judgment of God upon His own Old Testament rebellious house, the covenant people who rejected their Prince. That is verse 26! Not verse 27. Let Scripture interpret Scripture, not man-made theories.




Well, guess what, it does! :-)

Thank God that the saints of His Judaean Church were immeasurably smarter than you.

As 70 AD approached, they remembered, understood, and acted upon, Jesus' warning; and fled, and survived.
God preserved His Judaean Church.

Meanwhile back in Jerusalem, what is it we see?
TS's sad psychoses, hanging on a tree.
But not without company.
"So the soldiers, out of the wrath and hatred they bore the Jews, nailed those they caught, one after one way, and another after another, to the crosses, by way of jest, when their multitude was so great, that room was wanting for the crosses, and crosses wanting for the bodies." (Wars of the Jews, V.11.1)