David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Think Think Think = TRUTH
If Christ did not make an end of sin then no one could be saved and we are all DEAD in trespasses and sins.
The "watch rapture view"
- Thread starter Douggg
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If Christ did not make an end of sin then no one could be saved and we are all DEAD in trespasses and sins.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Read and BELIEVE the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest enters into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world:
but now once in the end of the age hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many;
and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Hebrews 9:23-28
Last edited:
It's not unfulfilled because Luke 21:20 identifies the abomination of desolation as the Roman armies.
Daniel the prophet used the term "set up" in regards to the abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Also, "abomination" does not appear in Luke 21:20.
TribulationSigns
Well-Known Member
- May 1, 2023
- 1,719
- 453
- 83
- 55
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Are the Roman armies the abomination of desolation? Nope! Who was compassed by armies, and then the temple destroyed? Have you even read the Old Testament prophesies concerning the compassing with armies. It might interest you comparing scripture with scripture or do you simply rely on Josephus's record of who?
Luk 21:20-24
(20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
(22) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(23) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
(24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
They are all related to the apostasy in the church and its dire results. Apostasy comes from kingdom rising against kingdom, there is spiritual famine, persecution, betrayal, hatred, etc., as in those signs. Indeed, apostasy "IS" Jerusalem compassed with armies! Not physically, but spiritually just as it was revealed in the time of Christ when He fulfilled prophesy of this. It all depends upon how we define God's Word, either by God's Word or by hypothesis and supposition. The New Testament Jerusalem "IS" the church. What armies would encamp against her and surround her but those soldiers spiritually of Satan, just as they did at Christ's first advent, eg. Scribes and Pharisees (Zec 9:8-9). There were no literal/physical battles in Jerusalem then, no literal armies then, and there are no literal/physical battles or armies against the Lord's house in the last days. It is spiritual warfare. For example:
Revelation 20:8-9
- "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
- And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."
Luke 21:20 refers to Daniel 9:26-27 which references the Roman armies as "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary".
Luke 21:20 does not reference Daniel 12.
TribulationSigns
Well-Known Member
- May 1, 2023
- 1,719
- 453
- 83
- 55
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Luke 21:20 makes it absolutely clear: "When you see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is near." That is the abomination of desolation—not Roman soldiers in 70 AD, but the spiritual invasion of false prophets and false christs flooding the Church with corrupt doctrines. These are the armies surrounding the spiritual Jerusalem, the New Covenant congregation.
When we see this happening—when we recognize the flood of deception, compromise, and apostasy—we will "KNOW" that is the signal: it's time to flee. God has allowed these the armies of Satan (eg Gog and Magog) to enter as judgment upon a rebellious house. The desolation is not merely physical ruin, but spiritual devastation brought on by abominations allowed to fester within. This is a sobering warning to discern the signs and separate from an unfaithful congregation before judgment falls. Pray that your flight (flee) be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day when you see it? Do you understand what winter and sabbath day refers to and WHY? Humm...
TribulationSigns
Well-Known Member
- May 1, 2023
- 1,719
- 453
- 83
- 55
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Concerning Daniel 9:26 — the common preterist interpretation is false. The "people of the prince that shall come" is not referring to the Roman armies under Titus. That is a distortion of Scripture rooted in false doctrine.
The context makes it unmistakably clear: the Prince is Messiah—the same "Messiah the Prince" mentioned in verse 25. This is Jesus Christ, not some Roman general. His people, at the time of His crucifixion, were the Jews—the people of the Old Covenant congregation. But because of their rejection of the Messiah, that congregation was falling into ruin. “The end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined" upon the Old Testament congregation. Period!
This verse is not about Rome—it’s about the judgment of God upon His own Old Testament rebellious house, the covenant people who rejected their Prince. That is verse 26! Not verse 27. Let Scripture interpret Scripture, not man-made theories.
Well, guess what, it does! :-)
Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 reference Daniel 9:26-27.
There are no Roman armies destroying Jerusalem in Daniel 12.
Last edited:
Thank God that the saints of His Judaean Church were immeasurably smarter than you.
As 70 AD approached, they remembered, understood, and acted upon, Jesus' warning; and fled, and survived.
God preserved His Judaean Church.
Meanwhile back in Jerusalem, what is it we see?
TS's sad psychoses, hanging on a tree.
But not without company.
"So the soldiers, out of the wrath and hatred they bore the Jews, nailed those they caught, one after one way, and another after another, to the crosses, by way of jest, when their multitude was so great, that room was wanting for the crosses, and crosses wanting for the bodies." (Wars of the Jews, V.11.1)
Last edited:
There are no Roman armies destroying Jerusalem in Daniel 12, because the abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11 is not 70ad.
Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 are end times.
Also Daniel 9:27, the 7 year 70th week is end times. Those 7 years are the same 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9 that follow the Gog/Magog attack on Israel in the end times.
We are living in the end times.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
I believe that there are prophecies in the Old Testament that would not make 100% sense (to me) if God did not restore them to Himself, which would only happen if their rejection of the Messiah came to an end - but IMO in the New Testament there is absolutely no direct statement regarding this - Paul is speaking about the restoration of individual Jews who repent of their unbelief in Romans 11, not of the entire nation.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
the AoD is the Image that will be "SET UP" for all to worship = Revelation
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
I just can't get on this A4E is in the book of Daniel page. The days of A4E have no connection with the verses that surround it. Daniel 11, for instance. Which BTW, the following is also echoed in Daniel 12. There wasn't anyone during the A4E days being purged, and being made white. That is NT church language not OT language involving the days of A4E. Keeping in mind, we can't divorce Daniel 11:35 from Daniel 11:31.
Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
IMO, in light of verses like these, to then apply Daniel 11:35 to the days of A4E is absurd and is not even remotely an example of interpreting Scripture with Scripture, which is what we should be trying to do when possible.
In my view Daniel 12:11 is involving the same great tribulation Revelation 7:13 is involving. And that Daniel 12:11 tells us how many days Daniel 11:31 is involving since that verse neglected to make mention of the amount of days involved. And if Scripture interprets Scripture, the amount of days involved did not remain a mystery, they were revealed in Daniel 12:11, then elsewhere in the book of Revelation, to name a few.
What we should be looking for before deciding how this should be interpreted, how that should be interpreted, is not what looks like it can fit, but what looks like it can't fit. And Clearly, Daniel 11:35 can't fit the days of A4E, when in light of the NT, being made white is a major theme throughout and that it involves overcomers, thus the church.
If you want to continue seeing A4E in texts such as Daniel 12:11, Daniel 11:31, I can't stop you. But what I can do is never agree with you about that since I see you being wrong in this case. Judas is the type for the man of sin, the son of perdition, not A4E.
And what about comparing the following in Daniel 11 with the following in Revelation 13? No connection?
Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
IOW, the 'many days' meant in Daniel 11:33 are interpreted to mean the 42 months recorded in Revelation 13:5. And in Daniel 11:35, that is interpreted to be involving the patience of the saints, Revelation 13:10.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
In light of verses like these, why would anyone want to interpret Daniel 11:35 below in such a manner, where they have people already being made white before Christ even comes and spills His blood first, Jews in the case, keeping in mind, that just because they are Jews this doesn't mean when Christ comes, meaning His first coming, that all Jews are going to accept Him? WE already know many of them didn't. But let's just say some Jews were already made white before Christ comes. Why then would they need Jesus if they have already been made white before He even spills His blood first? Keeping in mind we can't divorce being made white from that of spilling His blood.
Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Last edited:
I don't think it right that you imply I don't believe in Jesus because you don't agree with what I say.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
False accusation
i NEVER implied what you said
We are commanded by God to read and believe His Word = Everyday = Matthew 4:4
It is a JOY and GIFT from the Holy Spirit to be encouraged in the Scriptures = daily
You said, "Read and BELIEVE the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE."
Your wording allowed me to infer you were implying what I said. If I was mistaken, I apologize.
Similar threads
