The "We" in Ephesians

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MatthewG

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Ephesians 1:11
In him "we" have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

Is this speaking of the Jewish people? When Paul stated "we"? Shortly after he starts using "you." Wouldn't that be for the Gentiles?
 

Lambano

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As I read the context, "us" and "we" in the intro refers to all who are "in Him" (verse 4). In verse 12, "we who were the first to hope in Christ" would refer to himself, his traveling companions, and all who came to Christ before his target audience, the Ephesians, the "you" starting in verse 13.

I don't see ethnicity/race directly mentioned until chapter 2 verse 11, but it's there in the background, the elephant in the room. Note the reference to "chosen" in 1:4 and "(God's) possession" in 1:14. See Deuteronomy 7:6 to understand what these terms meant.
 
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MatthewG

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It’s Paul writing to a certain group. It couldn’t be us.

Commonly people assume its us.

Paul is speaking of his people, though the Jews right?
 

MatthewG

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He goes from “we” to “you” making a distinction between the Jewish audience and the Gentile audience, most ignore that.

It’s written to the people of Ephesus and if anything he is expounding upon them things he has learned over time… right?
 

MatthewG

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Here is more for people to consider
“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.




In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 

MatthewG

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Here is more for people to consider
“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.




In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
I think it was Abram whom Yahavah chose out of all the people to bring forth the nation of Israel, he was seemingly predestined, to bring forth the nation of Israel.
 

MatthewG

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As I read the context, "us" and "we" in the intro refers to all who are "in Him" (verse 4). In verse 12, "we who were the first to hope in Christ" would refer to himself, his traveling companions, and all who came to Christ before his target audience, the Ephesians, the "you" starting in verse 13.

I don't see ethnicity/race directly mentioned until chapter 2 verse 11, but it's there in the background, the elephant in the room. Note the reference to "chosen" in 1:4 and "(God's) possession" in 1:14. See Deuteronomy 7:6 to understand what these terms meant.

Thanks for writing. I do believe this question I have brought for to the table, disables predestination. And it was indeed Israel whom was predestined to bring forth the Messiah, which would bring forth salvation to themselves, and also the gentiles.

Awesome stuff!
 

MatthewG

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I don't think he is talking about all people. Thank you for your comment.
 

MatthewG

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We are looking at Letter that was written to the people in Ephesus from a man whom was born under the law, and was a Jewish person by every right from the tribe of Benjamin. There has to be some merit concerning the way he is writing.
 

Lambano

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Thanks for writing. I do believe this question I have brought for to the table, disables predestination. And it was indeed Israel whom was predestined to bring forth the Messiah, which would bring forth salvation to themselves, and also the gentiles.
Paul's repeated use of the phrase "in Him" and "in Christ" indicates that Paul is talking about believers, Jewish or Gentile. So, this is not saying anything about Christ being predestined to come out of Israel, though He certainly was.

Predestination is the elephant in the room. I think Paul is saying that our identity ("we") as God's personal chosen possession (ala Deuteronomy 7:6) is "in Christ", and being "In Him" destines us to holiness, blamelessness, adoption, redemption, forgiveness, a part in Christ's mission and an inheritance in the World to Come. This is what biblical "election" is all about - being God's representatives in the world.
 

MatthewG

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In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”. <- towards the gentiles.
 

MatthewG

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I get there is no difference of those in Christ, @Lambano.

However Paul came from the Jewish economy, and he is explaining to the Gentile people (People of Ephesus) whats up. They came from a predestined line whom brought forth the Messiah.
 

MatthewG

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I recognize that many people use this verse " just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" However he is talking about here the choice of using the Israel to bring forth messiah... Many use this verse in essence of God choosing and picking people to predestine or whatever, but if you really look at it, Paul is opening is introduction here by telling the Gentile people where he comes from, and what has now became in open invitation of them to come to salvation if they so want it.
 

MatthewG

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I’m just saying the facts of what’s being written @Lambano.

We could even see when Paul mentions we he could be testifying of the apostles themselves, and then he switched it up to you.
 

MatthewG

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People typically forget the original audience and make themselves the original audience, I don’t think that is a good way to really deduct scripture.
 

MatthewG

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In 20 years of doing Christian forums, I've only started two topics. This question on the now-defunct Ekklesia forum was on of them.

Cool. Well I hope you got your question answered, when it comes down to the “we” here in Ephesians. May Yahavah guide.