The Wolves Are Already Among Us

[amigo de christo]

Why reword it? As I said….”that very few people can tell the the difference anymore.” So why is that?

The “sheep” can tell when something is not right…but the sheep can also be misled by false shepherds who teach the doctrines of demons, and who are themselves misled by “the angel of light”. Satan is not into the business of being obvious….he is the master deceiver, and he has a counterfeit “Christianity”, sown in the world and spreading from the end of the apostolic period….which means that once the apostles passed away, it was open slather for the apostasy to take over, and ever so slowly, to grow into a global entity with power over the masses….this is Christendom, which, in its many divisions, has created nothing but mass confusion.

Anyone who takes their beliefs from this entity are being led down a dark path. The foundations were laid so long ago that no one questions them…..we need to go back to the Bible and start again.

But first, like the devil did with our first parents….he has to separate them from the true God, and take his place in their lives. As you so rightly said….”by their fruits” we will recognize them.
The false Christians will have blood on their hands, and political involvement in their hearts in the mistaken notion that Jesus would condone their loyalties. He told us to be “NO PART of the world” for a very good reason. It would set us apart from Christendom who are up to their necks in politics and the bloodshed that results from military conflicts. Patriotism has been presented as compatible with Christianity, but they are in complete opposition.


The harlot is so confident that she will never fail, or be toppled by any government of man…but she is in for a very big shock, as are all who support her…..Matt 7:21-23 is an indication of who will be rejected at the judgment….those who think that Jesus is their “Lord”….but who will be rejected outright as those he “NEVER KNEW”.

The harlot has many lovers….but none of them will save her. It is God who puts it into the hearts of the political powers to destroy her. (Rev 18:4-5) We have to remove ourselves entirely from anything to do with her…if we don’t, we will go down with her.

Yes indeed that ol HARLOT is going down on the day of the LORD.
And none of us wants to sit under her in any shape , form , or fashion .
Tis why the call is being made louder than ever , COME YE OUT from amongst her
and sip not of her ecumenical cup of common ground . For a whore knows how to lie and to seduce
and how to please the flesh of man to entice him into her bedchambers of whoredom .

 

[Behold]

View attachment 68569

Apostasy is not coming. Apostasy is here. Jude wrote, “Certain men… crept in unawares… ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness” (Jude 1:4).

JUDE was teaching that religious Jews caused Christians to misunderstand God's Grace, as they twisted it into a false idea that preaching Grace as "the Gospel of the GRACE OF GOD".... is preaching "Licence to sin".
So, the idea is, to cause you to never understand God's Grace correctly, which ruins your FAITH..... because you've been mislead into the false idea that when God's Grace is taught correctly, someone is teaching "license to sin".

Also, you can look high and low, and you'll never find a Real Christian who teaches "licence to sin."
So.......This is a Strawman" argument, a deception.

And if you study Paul's epistles......you find that these Jews whom Jude was defining.......had misdefined Paul's Gospel as "license to sin".
And they still do it today on Forums, and in commentaries, and in Pulpits, and in Youtube Videos.

NOW, Here is an update for you... Reader..
Anytime God's Grace is preached correctly, you will find Legalists and Fake Christians will come and say....>"that's license to sin".
Keep your eye on that fact.

Jesus said wolves will come in sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15). Paul said that men will rise up from among them and preach perverted doctrine (Acts 20:30). Peter said false teachers will secretly introduce destructive heresies (2 Peter 2:1–2).

On any Christian forum you find people who will lead Christians away from the Truth by teaching them their FALSE gospel of works, or their Calvinism, or their MaryCult, or their JW, or Mormonism.......and on and on, as these are "doctrines of devils" that RUIN "chrisitan forums".

The false teachers of today preach grace as a license to sin.

Completely untrue, that preaching Grace is to preach "license to sin".

and this carnal lie is spread a lot by deceived people who can't explain Salvation....They can't explain.."Justification by Faith.. .. They can't explain "the Blood atonement"... They can't explain the "new Covenant'.......all they can do is howl like a carnal dog about "OSAS" because their mind is become twisted by hyper religious carnal people who have subverted them with this "licence to sin" nonsense.

Judgment is coming on the apostate church.

More nonsense.

The reality is, the body of Christ will never face God's Wrath, as Jesus has already faced it for the CHRISTIANS, on The Cross.
Any Real Christian understands this and any fake one never will. = Heretics can never understand this, and that is probably because they are FAKING being a Christian as the #1 reason.

. The Church must “earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints”

The "faith" delivered to the Saints""........is the understanding that "our FAITH is counted by God as Righrteousness".

This is "Justification BY Faith".

The "faith delivered to the Saints"".... is """Abraham BELIEVED God, and it (His Faith) was counted unto Him as Rightetousness, and it shall be imputed (righteousness) unto us ALSO who BELIEVE""".

We cannot afford wishy-washy Christianity. The enemy is among us. The time to stand is now.

The enemy of Christianty is a person who is trying to stay saved, and does not understand Salvation and wants to TEACH.
Or, its a fake Chrisitan who is trying to keep commandments and do works to try to go to Heaven.
These are BOTH the "enemy of Cross".....as its all who do not understand = "THE GIFT of Righteousness" who is Jesus on The Cross.

 

[bdavidc]

Talk about wandering off the subject! (I am not smarter than everyone else.) Where in hades did that come from. All you can do is be a parrot and write what others say. You are not able to seriously work with the Greek text. You misapply John 16.13 without knowing it. The promise there is to the apostles, not all the saints. God gifted pastor-teachers to instruct the Body of Christ. I am through with this discussion. Everything you wrote in this post is man's opinion, right? [I can just hear Paul now teaching at some gathering say: Jesus is God but that is just my opinion.

Finally, tell me about a time in the last 2000 years where the condition you say is found in 2 Thes 2 was not true. Church History is well recorded. If the Reformation was not a falling away, then I don't know what is. So, why didn't the Church enter the Tribulation, since the Reformation fulfilled the prophecy of 2 thes 2. The church at that time was mostly catholic.

I ignored you, so don't bother me any more. To me, you are not an honest person.

Yes, you did say that earlier. You told me I “wasn’t smart enough to work with the Greek text,” which is exactly the kind of prideful jab that has nothing to do with the topic. Now you say “I’m not smarter than everyone else” but that’s the same tone you took when you tried to elevate your own study above all others. The issue here isn’t who’s smart, it’s what Scripture says. God’s truth doesn’t bow to degrees or Greek claims. The Word is spiritually discerned, not academically owned ~1 Corinthians 2:14-15. Truth is not about IQ, it’s about obedience.

I’ll keep this on Scripture and on the topic.

I said you “misapply” ~John 16:13. Contextually Jesus is speaking to the apostles, yes. But the New Testament also says the same Spirit guides all believers in the truth He revealed through them. “You have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know” ~1 John 2:20. “His anointing teaches you about all things” ~1 John 2:27. “As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God” ~Romans 8:14. Pastor-teachers are a gift to equip the saints ~Ephesians 4: 11-12, yet the final standard is still the God-breathed Scripture, sufficient to make the man of God “complete” ~2 Timothy 3:16-17. The Bereans were commended for testing teachers by the Word, not by a guild of scholars ~Acts 17:11.

On apostasia. Paul’s term in ~2 Thessalonians 2:3 is used for spiritual defection. The same root idea appears where the Spirit says “some will depart from the faith” ~1 Timothy 4: 1, and “take care… lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God” ~Hebrews 3:12. In ~Acts 21: 21 Paul is accused of “apostasy from Moses”, clearly a doctrinal defection. That is the sense that fits Paul’s warning about deception, false signs, and loving a lie ~2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

You asked “When in the last 2000 years was this not true?” Scripture already answers. The mystery of lawlessness “is already at work” but it also moves toward a climax when the man of sin is revealed ~2 Thessalonians 2:7-8. In other words, apostasy is both present and progressive. It was here in the first century, and it will intensify until the appointed unveiling. That reality does not make today’s falling away any less real. It makes vigilance more urgent ~2 Timothy 3:1-5, ~2 Timothy 3:13, ~Jude 1:3-4.

I never said the Reformation “fulfilled” ~2 Thessalonians 2. Scripture does not pin that prophecy to any human milestone. The test God gives is not dates but doctrine. If anyone preaches a different gospel, he is accursed ~Galatians 1:8-9. That is the point of my post: measure teachers by the Word, contend for the faith, and refuse the lie, right now ~Jude 1:3, ~1 John 4:1.

You called my words “man’s opinion.” I have given chapter and verse. If you believe I have handled those texts wrongly, open the Bible and show where. If not, then dismissing Scripture with labels will not change what it says.

For my part I am done with the side trails. The thread’s subject is apostasy in the visible church and the call to hold fast to the truth. I will keep it there for the sake of the readers ~2 Thessalonians 2:15.

 

[Behold]

For my part I am done with the side trails. The thread’s subject is apostasy

Your thread is not really about Apostasy........its simply the same old worn out "OSAS"... argument that is always created by self righteous people who do not understand exaclty and specifically what Jesus has ETERNALLY accomplished by offering His Blood and Death To God, on behalf of all sinners.

@bdavidc ...... you could not explain "The Gift of Rightesouenss" if it would save your life.

But you can "Google" it and try to pretend........ in your next post.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Yes indeed that ol HARLOT is going down on the day of the LORD.
And none of us wants to sit under her in any shape , form , or fashion .
Tis why the call is being made louder than ever , COME YE OUT from amongst her
and sip not of her ecumenical cup of common ground . For a whore knows how to lie and to seduce
and how to please the flesh of man to entice him into her bedchambers of whoredom .

@amigo de christo

 

[NotTheRock]

View attachment 68569

Apostasy is not coming. Apostasy is here. Jude wrote, “Certain men… crept in unawares… ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness” (Jude 1:4). Apostates sit in pulpits, write books, and livestream sermons. But they twist the truth and pour poison into the flock.

Jesus said wolves will come in sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15). Paul said that men will rise up from among them and preach perverted doctrine (Acts 20:30). Peter said false teachers will secretly introduce destructive heresies (2 Peter 2:1–2). They are here today.

The false teachers of today preach grace as a license to sin. They mock holiness, downplay Scripture, and teach a Jesus who saves but does not rule. But the Bible says, “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him” (Titus 1:16).

Judgment is coming on the apostate church. God destroyed Israel in the wilderness for unbelief (Numbers 14), fallen angels are held in eternal chains of darkness (2 Peter 2: 4), and Sodom was burned up for its sexual corruption (Jude 1:7). The same is coming for every apostate.

We cannot be naïve. The Church must “earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude 1: 3), test every spirit (1 John 4:1), and hold fast to Scripture as our final authority (2 Timothy 3:16–17).

We cannot afford wishy-washy Christianity. The enemy is among us. The time to stand is now.

Indeed. Anyone who disagrees with my theology is a false teacher destined for Hell.

 

[amigo de christo]

Indeed. Anyone who disagrees with my theology is a false teacher destined for Hell.

yea rather its anyone who agrees NOT to the true gospel
which clearly stated ONE MUST BELEIVE and CONFESS the LORD JESUS
are those destined for hell .
Now how many do we have amongst us
who now call JESUS a liar and imply in any way shape or fashion
It was NOT necessary TO HAVE had to have beleived on Him
as they hug muslims and false relgioins to hell by promising them hey we all Gods children .
WOE unto any and unto all
WHO have made VOID the dire necessity to have had TO have BELEIVED ON and CONFESSED the LORD JESUS
to be saved . YEAH i say woe unto those .
SO how many here are sitting in ecumenical churches who have poured out this co exist
intefaith interreligious finding c ommon ground dialgoue
IF SO , YA BETTER GET OUT and fast .

 

[bdavidc]

Indeed. Anyone who disagrees with my theology is a false teacher destined for Hell.

That's not how truth works. I'm not the standard, God's Word is. If what someone teaches is contrary to Scripture then yes, it's false. But if it agrees with the Bible, then it stands regardless of who may disagree. "Let God be true, but every man a liar" ~Romans 3:4.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

View attachment 68569

Apostasy is not coming. Apostasy is here. Jude wrote, “Certain men… crept in unawares… ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness” (Jude 1:4). Apostates sit in pulpits, write books, and livestream sermons. But they twist the truth and pour poison into the flock.

Jesus said wolves will come in sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15). Paul said that men will rise up from among them and preach perverted doctrine (Acts 20:30). Peter said false teachers will secretly introduce destructive heresies (2 Peter 2:1–2). They are here today.

The false teachers of today preach grace as a license to sin. They mock holiness, downplay Scripture, and teach a Jesus who saves but does not rule. But the Bible says, “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him” (Titus 1:16).

Judgment is coming on the apostate church. God destroyed Israel in the wilderness for unbelief (Numbers 14), fallen angels are held in eternal chains of darkness (2 Peter 2: 4), and Sodom was burned up for its sexual corruption (Jude 1:7). The same is coming for every apostate.

We cannot be naïve. The Church must “earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude 1: 3), test every spirit (1 John 4:1), and hold fast to Scripture as our final authority (2 Timothy 3:16–17).

We cannot afford wishy-washy Christianity. The enemy is among us. The time to stand is now.

The church is not apostate! The church is the living breathing organism called teh body of Christ. It is the false church that is apostate and its wolves have been devouring people since shortly after Pentecost!

 

[bdavidc]

The church is not apostate! The church is the living breathing organism called teh body of Christ. It is the false church that is apostate and its wolves have been devouring people since shortly after Pentecost!

I agree that the true Church, the body of Christ, cannot become apostate. Jesus said, “The gates of hell shall not prevail against it” ~Matthew 16:18. But Scripture also makes clear that within the visible church there will be many who claim His name but are not truly His. That’s the apostasy being exposed.

Paul warned, “From among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them” ~Acts 20:30. Jude and Peter both described these same deceivers operating inside the fellowship, not outside it. So yes, the body of Christ remains pure, but the visible institution calling itself “church” is full of both wheat and tares ~Matthew 13:24–30.

That’s why I said apostasy is here. It’s not Christ’s true bride that’s fallen, it’s the false ones pretending to be and many are they.

 

[marks]

I agree that the true Church, the body of Christ, cannot become apostate. Jesus said, “The gates of hell shall not prevail against it” ~Matthew 16:18. But Scripture also makes clear that within the visible church there will be many who claim His name but are not truly His. That’s the apostasy being exposed.

Paul warned, “From among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them” ~Acts 20:30. Jude and Peter both described these same deceivers operating inside the fellowship, not outside it. So yes, the body of Christ remains pure, but the visible institution calling itself “church” is full of both wheat and tares ~Matthew 13:24–30.

That’s why I said apostasy is here. It’s not Christ’s true bride that’s fallen, it’s the false ones pretending to be and many are they.

Can false believers rightly be called apostate? I thought that would only describe someone true who then left.

Much love!

 

[bdavidc]

Can false believers rightly be called apostate? I thought that would only describe someone true who then left.

Yes, they can, and Scripture proves it. Apostasy is not about losing salvation. It is about departing from truth. You cannot fall away from something you never truly possessed, but you can fall away from truth that you once professed. Judas provides the example. He walked with Christ, heard His teaching, cast out demons, yet Jesus said he was “a devil” ~John 6:70. Outwardly he appeared to be a disciple. Inwardly he was a false believer. His falling away exposed the reality that was already in his heart.

Paul wrote that “in the last days some will depart from the faith” ~1 Timothy 4:1. They were not born again. They were part of the visible fellowship of believers. Then they turned from the truth they were professing to follow. John was equally blunt: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

So yes, false believers can rightly be called apostate because they depart from the faith they once professed. They prove by their defection that their faith was never real. Apostasy reveals the counterfeit, it doesn’t contaminate the real.

 

[marks]

The church is not apostate! The church is the living breathing organism called teh body of Christ. It is the false church that is apostate and its wolves have been devouring people since shortly after Pentecost!

I agree with you, and let's not sell short the Body of Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So yes, false believers can rightly be called apostate

Obviously we use the word differently, no need to go on about it.

Much love!

 

[JLB]

Sorry to disagree with you, but everything I said above is accurate. Apostasia means to "stand away from." It means "a departure." It is used this way many times in the NT.

It may be best if I show you the context of Apostasia in 2 Thes 2:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.

You may not need Mark Hitchcock, but I can assure you have not done your homework on this usage.

The Day of the Lord/Christ does not begin until the man of sin is identified. The sequence of events that take place using a systematic theology approach is:
The Rapture
The beginning of the DOL
Then the revealing of the man of sin, the lawless one
The AC is identified by his signing of the Peace Treaty described in Daniel.
It is a seven year covenant between the AC and the Jews.

Your approach to interpreting this passage ignores the "our being gathered to him." The departure is the Rapture/Resurrection of the Church.

I think you are leaving yourself ignorant of this passage because you are not reading the evangelical scholars. you need to read 5 scholars on each side of the discussion. I can assure you that you haven't bothered to read a well-rounded study on the actual usages of the noun and verb. Your definition of Apostasia only appears one place in the NT. Whereas the meaning of departure appears I think 11 or 18 times (cant remember that right now).

Finally, 2 Thes 2.7 is the departure of the HS, he is taken "out of the way." You have the concept of a Rapture at the beginning and ending of this section.

Just out of curiosity, how many scholars have you read that disagree with you? Until you do that, you really are not in a position to discuss this topic.

‘Totally false.


Apostasy is not the rapture.

It’s a departure from Christ by departing from His teachings.

 

[NotTheRock]

That's not how truth works. I'm not the standard, God's Word is. If what someone teaches is contrary to Scripture then yes, it's false. But if it agrees with the Bible, then it stands regardless of who may disagree. "Let God be true, but every man a liar" ~Romans 3:4.

Well let's put you to the test. Are some people forever separated from our Father?

Lamentations 3:31
For the Lord will not cast off forever

 

[bdavidc]

Well let's put you to the test. Are some people forever separated from our Father?

Lamentations 3:31
For the Lord will not cast off forever

You're quoting one verse out of context. Lamentations 3 deals with God's mercy towards Israel in regards to temporal suffering, not eternal salvation. It says He won't "cast off forever" meaning that His covenant people would not be utterly destroyed in that sense. However, Scripture is also clear that those who reject Christ will be in eternal separation.

Jesus said, "These shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal" ~Matthew 25:46. And Paul wrote, "They shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" ~2 Thessalonians 1:9.

God's mercy is real, but His justice is too. Those who refuse His Son will be in that separation state not because God didn't forgive them, but because they refused to believe.

 

[NotTheRock]

You're quoting one verse out of context. Lamentations 3 deals with God's mercy towards Israel in regards to temporal suffering, not eternal salvation. It says He won't "cast off forever" meaning that His covenant people would not be utterly destroyed in that sense. However, Scripture is also clear that those who reject Christ will be in eternal separation.

Jesus said, "These shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal" ~Matthew 25:46. And Paul wrote, "They shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" ~2 Thessalonians 1:9.

God's mercy is real, but His justice is too. Those who refuse His Son will be in that separation state not because God didn't forgive them, but because they refused to believe.

You're wrong.

 

[marks]

‘Totally false.


Apostasy is not the rapture.

It’s a departure from Christ by departing from His teachings.

How would you know when this is actually fulfilled, considering there have been people leaving leaving churches, and abandoning sound doctrine for a long long time?

However, the departure of those in Christ is a one time event, and marks a particular point in history.

Much love!

 

[bdavidc]

You're wrong.

If you think I’m wrong, prove it from Scripture, not opinion. Personal feeling is not the standard of truth, God’s Word is.

Lamentations 3 talks of God’s mercy towards Israel in their afflictions, not their eternal salvation. But the same Bible also declares, “These shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal” ~Matthew 25:46. “They shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord” ~2 Thessalonians 1:9.

That’s not my opinion, that’s God’s Word. If you disagree with that, you’re not disagreeing with me, you’re disagreeing with Scripture itself.