The Wolves Are Already Among Us

[bdavidc]

Apostasy is not coming. Apostasy is here. Jude wrote, “Certain men… crept in unawares… ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness” (Jude 1:4). Apostates sit in pulpits, write books, and livestream sermons. But they twist the truth and pour poison into the flock.

Jesus said wolves will come in sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15). Paul said that men will rise up from among them and preach perverted doctrine (Acts 20:30). Peter said false teachers will secretly introduce destructive heresies (2 Peter 2:1–2). They are here today.

The false teachers of today preach grace as a license to sin. They mock holiness, downplay Scripture, and teach a Jesus who saves but does not rule. But the Bible says, “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him” (Titus 1:16).

Judgment is coming on the apostate church. God destroyed Israel in the wilderness for unbelief (Numbers 14), fallen angels are held in eternal chains of darkness (2 Peter 2: 4), and Sodom was burned up for its sexual corruption (Jude 1:7). The same is coming for every apostate.

We cannot be naïve. The Church must “earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude 1: 3), test every spirit (1 John 4:1), and hold fast to Scripture as our final authority (2 Timothy 3:16–17).

We cannot afford wishy-washy Christianity. The enemy is among us. The time to stand is now.

 

[KUWN]

View attachment 68569

Apostasy is not coming. Apostasy is here. Jude wrote, “Certain men… crept in unawares… ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness” (Jude 1:4). Apostates sit in pulpits, write books, and livestream sermons. But they twist the truth and pour poison into the flock.

The Apostasia is not something that gradually settles in over time. It is an event (a single occurrence), an observable event. Due to its scarce usage, the definition of the Greek is determined by its cognate verb, which is used frequently in the NT. So, the definition of the verb as well as its noun, means to remove or be snatched away. Paul further qualifies what he meant by referring to the Rapture. Apostasia is only part of the definition.

Jesus said wolves will come in sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15). Paul said that men will rise up from among them and preach perverted doctrine (Acts 20:30). Peter said false teachers will secretly introduce destructive heresies (2 Peter 2:1–2). They are here today.

Again, this is not an event, but a state of Christianity. This is something we can not look at and say 'This is the Apostasia Paul wrote about,' that is just one reason we know that Apostasia is a one time event. It has to happen at a point of time, not gradually. For the first many years, Apostasia was translated 'Departure' in all early versions.

The false teachers of today preach grace as a license to sin. They mock holiness, downplay Scripture, and teach a Jesus who saves but does not rule. But the Bible says, “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him” (Titus 1:16).

So, when did the Apostasia originally happen? Why are we still here on earth if it has already occurred? Just a side note: Bear in mind that the Book of Revelation puts the Day of the Lord as still future. The book of Revelation was written in the mid 90's (about 95 AD). See Mark Hitchcock's dissertation that is out on the internet for free. He demonstrates to beyond a reasonable doubt of the date of Revelation.

Judgment is coming on the apostate church. God destroyed Israel in the wilderness for unbelief (Numbers 14), fallen angels are held in eternal chains of darkness (2 Peter 2: 4), and Sodom was burned up for its sexual corruption (Jude 1:7). The same is coming for every apostate.

Above you say that the Apostasia is here already, but here you say it is coming...

 

[bdavidc]

The Apostasia is not something that gradually settles in over time. It is an event (a single occurrence), an observable event. Due to its scarce usage, the definition of the Greek is determined by its cognate verb, which is used frequently in the NT. So, the definition of the verb as well as its noun, means to remove or be snatched away. Paul further qualifies what he meant by referring to the Rapture. Apostasia is only part of the definition.


Again, this is not an event, but a state of Christianity. This is something we can not look at and say 'This is the Apostasia Paul wrote about,' that is just one reason we know that Apostasia is a one time event. It has to happen at a point of time, not gradually. For the first many years, Apostasia was translated 'Departure' in all early versions.

So, when did the Apostasia originally happen? Why are we still here on earth if it has already occurred? Just a side note: Bear in mind that the Book of Revelation puts the Day of the Lord as still future. The book of Revelation was written in the mid 90's (about 95 AD). See Mark Hitchcock's dissertation that is out on the internet for free. He demonstrates to beyond a reasonable doubt of the date of Revelation.

Above you say that the Apostasia is here already, but here you say it is coming...

That is the exact opposite of what apostasia means. Paul didn’t use that word for the rapture. He used it for a falling away from the faith. The context of ~ 2 Thessalonians 2:3 has to do with rebellion and deception, not rescue. It said it would come before the man of sin is revealed, not after we’re raptured away.

Apostasy is not a single flash-in-time event, it is the condition of the visible church turning from the truth. And that’s exactly what is happening right now: preachers denying Scripture, churches embracing sin, people calling evil good. That’s not future. That’s present.

When I said judgment is coming, that’s the next stage, God’s response to the apostasy we’re already seeing. The falling away is now, the judgment for it is coming. Scripture is self explanatory. I don’t need Mark Hitchcock or any dissertation to tell me what the text already says.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

I think false ones have been among us for generations. It's just that now we're all connected on one world web and can talk about it, and can see how deeply entrenched they are.

 

[bdavidc]

I think false ones have been among us for generations. It's just that now we're all connected on one world web and can talk about it, and can see how deeply entrenched they are.

You are correct that false teachers have been present since the beginning, and the apostles spoke about them in their own time. The difference now is the level of visibility and pervasiveness. The internet didn't create apostasy; it simply unveiled its extent. Scripture mentions, "Evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived" ~2 Timothy 3:13. We are witnessing this unfold in real-time, which is why remaining steadfast in the truth is crucial now more than ever.

 

[KUWN]

That is the exact opposite of what apostasia means. Paul didn’t use that word for the rapture. He used it for a falling away from the faith. The context of ~ 2 Thessalonians 2:3 has to do with rebellion and deception, not rescue. It said it would come before the man of sin is revealed, not after we’re raptured away.

Apostasy is not a single flash-in-time event, it is the condition of the visible church turning from the truth. And that’s exactly what is happening right now: preachers denying Scripture, churches embracing sin, people calling evil good. That’s not future. That’s presentR

When I said judgment is coming, that’s the next stage, God’s response to the apostasy we’re already seeing. The falling away is now, the judgment for it is coming. Scripture is self explanatory. I don’t need Mark Hitchcock or any dissertation to tell me what the text already says.

Sorry to disagree with you, but everything I said above is accurate. Apostasia means to "stand away from." It means "a departure." It is used this way many times in the NT.

It may be best if I show you the context of Apostasia in 2 Thes 2:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.

You may not need Mark Hitchcock, but I can assure you have not done your homework on this usage.

The Day of the Lord/Christ does not begin until the man of sin is identified. The sequence of events that take place using a systematic theology approach is:
The Rapture
The beginning of the DOL
Then the revealing of the man of sin, the lawless one
The AC is identified by his signing of the Peace Treaty described in Daniel.
It is a seven year covenant between the AC and the Jews.

Your approach to interpreting this passage ignores the "our being gathered to him." The departure is the Rapture/Resurrection of the Church.

I think you are leaving yourself ignorant of this passage because you are not reading the evangelical scholars. you need to read 5 scholars on each side of the discussion. I can assure you that you haven't bothered to read a well-rounded study on the actual usages of the noun and verb. Your definition of Apostasia only appears one place in the NT. Whereas the meaning of departure appears I think 11 or 18 times (cant remember that right now).

Finally, 2 Thes 2.7 is the departure of the HS, he is taken "out of the way." You have the concept of a Rapture at the beginning and ending of this section.

Just out of curiosity, how many scholars have you read that disagree with you? Until you do that, you really are not in a position to discuss this topic.

 

[soberxp]

See to it that you are not a sheep following the wolf, but following the shepherd.

 

[Aunty Jane]

See to it that you are not a sheep following the wolf, but following the shepherd.

The trouble is…..the wolves in the sheep suits are so well disguised and they have been around so long, that very few people can tell the the difference anymore.

If the apostasy was beginning in the first century, as the apostles indicated, then it’s been around and festering for many centuries.
Only in “the time of the end” (the time for Christ’s return) would we see global conditions “like the days of Noah”. (Matt 24:37-39) Here we are in a world again filled with immorality and violence, in an age where there is no excuse to plead ignorance. We all know better, so we should do better. Yet human nature never seems to change even with a better education.

“Power corrupts” as we all know….so it’s the corruption of exercising power over each other that is at the bottom of all of man’s problems…..the time when God handed the world over to the god they chose (Luke 4:5-6) and we have been reaping what they sowed ever since.
God has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that mankind were never designed to rule one another….
They were designed to be ruled by their Maker who is incorruptible.

 

[JohnDB]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1979802759659672027

 

[bdavidc]

Just out of curiosity, how many scholars have you read that disagree with you? Until you do that, you really are not in a position to discuss this topic.

You’ve just wandered off the topic completely. My post is not on timelines or rapture sequences or end-times charts. My post is on apostasy, the here and now falling away from the truth that Scripture plainly prophesied would occur. Jude and Peter and Paul each foretold this rebellion and said it would come from within the visible church. They did not treat it as a single prophetic event, but as a state of deception and compromise. THAT is what we are observing right now.

Apostasia in ~2 Thessalonians 2:3 does not refer to a physical departure, but to a spiritual defection. This same root word is used in ~1 Timothy 4: 1, where the Spirit says some will depart from the faith. THAT is what the Bible calls apostasy. It is not some speculation or theory. It is happening in real time right now as churches are denying Scripture and sanctioning sin and redefining truth.

If you want to argue about rapture timing, that is a whole other topic that you can start a thread of your own on, but it does not negate what the Word of God already declares: the church today is infiltrated by deception and judgment is coming for those who pervert the gospel. That is the point of this post, and that is where this discussion remains.

Since you can’t even stay on topic and the thread is on apostasy (visible church falling away from the truth), not your charts about end-times, or what scholars everyone must read. You are determined to change the subject from the Word of God to man’s opinions.

And really, don’t act like you are smarter than everyone else just because you quote some scholars. God’s Word interprets itself. The Holy Spirit, not scholars, is the one who brings the saints into all truth ~John 16:13. The Bereans were praised by God for searching the Scriptures, not for reading dissertations ~Acts 17:11.

If you think you need a pile of commentaries in order to rightly divide the Word, then you are already making my point of apostasy: that folks trust human reason and research instead of God’s revelation. So stick to the Word, stay on topic, and stop trying to act like scholarship is spiritual authority. The standard is the Scripture, period.

You’re not the standard. The Scripture is.

 

[amigo de christo]

View attachment 68569

Apostasy is not coming. Apostasy is here. Jude wrote, “Certain men… crept in unawares… ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness” (Jude 1:4). Apostates sit in pulpits, write books, and livestream sermons. But they twist the truth and pour poison into the flock.

Jesus said wolves will come in sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15). Paul said that men will rise up from among them and preach perverted doctrine (Acts 20:30). Peter said false teachers will secretly introduce destructive heresies (2 Peter 2:1–2). They are here today.

The false teachers of today preach grace as a license to sin. They mock holiness, downplay Scripture, and teach a Jesus who saves but does not rule. But the Bible says, “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him” (Titus 1:16).

Judgment is coming on the apostate church. God destroyed Israel in the wilderness for unbelief (Numbers 14), fallen angels are held in eternal chains of darkness (2 Peter 2: 4), and Sodom was burned up for its sexual corruption (Jude 1:7). The same is coming for every apostate.

We cannot be naïve. The Church must “earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude 1: 3), test every spirit (1 John 4:1), and hold fast to Scripture as our final authority (2 Timothy 3:16–17).

We cannot afford wishy-washy Christianity. The enemy is among us. The time to stand is now.

TO the trenches one and all . We make our last and final stand in these late and last hours .
APOSTACY has OVERTAKEN much of christendom and its solution , its love , its unity
Has accepted sins and even the lie and has made the path to GOD very broad indeed .

 

[amigo de christo]

You’ve just wandered off the topic completely. My post is not on timelines or rapture sequences or end-times charts. My post is on apostasy, the here and now falling away from the truth that Scripture plainly prophesied would occur. Jude and Peter and Paul each foretold this rebellion and said it would come from within the visible church. They did not treat it as a single prophetic event, but as a state of deception and compromise. THAT is what we are observing right now.

Apostasia in ~2 Thessalonians 2:3 does not refer to a physical departure, but to a spiritual defection. This same root word is used in ~1 Timothy 4: 1, where the Spirit says some will depart from the faith. THAT is what the Bible calls apostasy. It is not some speculation or theory. It is happening in real time right now as churches are denying Scripture and sanctioning sin and redefining truth.

If you want to argue about rapture timing, that is a whole other topic that you can start a thread of your own on, but it does not negate what the Word of God already declares: the church today is infiltrated by deception and judgment is coming for those who pervert the gospel. That is the point of this post, and that is where this discussion remains.

Since you can’t even stay on topic and the thread is on apostasy (visible church falling away from the truth), not your charts about end-times, or what scholars everyone must read. You are determined to change the subject from the Word of God to man’s opinions.

And really, don’t act like you are smarter than everyone else just because you quote some scholars. God’s Word interprets itself. The Holy Spirit, not scholars, is the one who brings the saints into all truth ~John 16:13. The Bereans were praised by God for searching the Scriptures, not for reading dissertations ~Acts 17:11.

If you think you need a pile of commentaries in order to rightly divide the Word, then you are already making my point of apostasy: that folks trust human reason and research instead of God’s revelation. So stick to the Word, stay on topic, and stop trying to act like scholarship is spiritual authority. The standard is the Scripture, period.

You’re not the standard. The Scripture is.

TO the trenches the hour is late . LET GOD be true but every man a liar .
HIS WORDS are TRUTH and YES INDEED MY FRIEND they are the STANDARD . If i could
i would put a bible into the hand of every man woman and child with the reminder
TIME to love and beleive THE TRUTH rather than loving to twist and omit the scriptures unto their own destruction .
The battle line is drawn . Armour up and point to CHRIST .

 

[bdavidc]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1979802759659672027

Don’t miss the point. The Bible is not King James’s word. It’s God’s Word, and He is its Author. King James had no hand in the translation (let alone the writing or inspiration) of the Bible. He merely authorized the translation. Over fifty men, many of them learned in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, set out to produce a faithful, accurate translation of Scripture into English from the original languages. The King James Bible does not have the authority of a king, or a council, or a man, or even an institution. It has the authority of God Himself.

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God” ~2 Timothy 3:16. The men who translated it were His instruments, not its authors. The Word of God does not depend on human perfection for its authority any more than it did when God chose to reveal Himself through a series of imperfect men throughout history. “Moses and Saul and David and Peter and Paul” were all men, all sinned, and yet, “the word of our God shall stand forever” ~Isaiah 40:8.

Appealing to a book King James may or may not have written about demonology is another smoke screen to obscure the Word of God. It was written years before the translation project began. It has nothing to do with the reliability of the King James Bible, and everything to do with changing the subject. James did not change the Word of God to make it fit his views, because he was not translating it from his own opinions, but from the original inspired text.

God does not need perfect kings to defend His truth. He will keep His Word because He promised to, “preserve them from this generation forever” ~Psalm 12:6–7. “The words of the LORD are pure words…Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them” ~Psalm 12:6–7. The authority of the Bible is in God, not in some king.

 

[amigo de christo]

The trouble is…..the wolves in the sheep suits are so well disguised and they have been around so long, that very few people can tell the the difference anymore.

If the apostasy was beginning in the first century, as the apostles indicated, then it’s been around and festering for many centuries.
Only in “the time of the end” (the time for Christ’s return) would we see global conditions “like the days of Noah”. (Matt 24:37-39) Here we are in a world again filled with immorality and violence, in an age where there is no excuse to plead ignorance. We all know better, so we should do better. Yet human nature never seems to change even with a better education.

“Power corrupts” as we all know….so it’s the corruption of exercising power over each other that is at the bottom of all of man’s problems…..the time when God handed the world over to the god they chose (Luke 4:5-6) and we have been reaping what they sowed ever since.
God has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that mankind were never designed to rule one another….
They were designed to be ruled by their Maker who is incorruptible.

Lets reword your first sentence .
The trouble is .... the wolves in sheep suits are so well disguised and they have been around
so long , But a sheep will discern them BY their fruits my friend .
This sheep can whiff a false one very easy .
The reason so many have a time and a trouble doing so
IS because how often and how much are they reading and enjoying that bible again .
Many have no real desire to serve honor and FOLLOW CHRIST .
Rather they desire some other version that will be contrary to HIM , to HIS WORDS .
Apostacy has been raging and only increases MASSIVE in this last and final hour .
THIS GREAT APOSTACY has one goal . TO UNIFY them all to be as one .
No longer are they divided by their false doctrines and ways
ITS UNIFYING THEM ALL . the decieved of christendom WITH TEH FALSE RELIGOINS .
ITS a big ol fat love lie and it hollers unity and love all day long
IT will not correct certain sins and it hollers against the TRUE DOCTRINE
and calls THAT DOCTRINE weapons of mass distratction . OH YEAH i been watching them for a long time .
I just quoated the wolf BRIAN MCLAREN from years ago .
IT hollers bridge builders
it hollers alpha courses
it hollers seeker friendly
IT hollers a lot and says love a lot . But examine closely those under this breaking down walls
and healing the so called wound and etc
CAUSE THEY DARN SURE dont have any LOVE now for even the WORDS of GOD , nor those who bring them .
You see many are IN LOVE
with a the LOVE OF A HARLOT and of the world and they THINK ITS THE LOVE OF GOD .
WELL its love casts OUT the WORDS OF GOD
and those who bring them and do correct sin and error .
ITS love embraces sins now , been calling evil good and good evil .
ITs love now even brings in the last of its love
the lie of all lies as it now merges us with all false religoins and even claims we all serve the same GOD .
THE LOVE of a HARLOT and HER LOVE , GONNA END THIS GENERATION and THIS WORLD
BY THE VERY GOD they claimed to love and to believe IN HIS CHRIST
seeing THEIR LOVE DENIED HIS WORDS , DENIED HIS GOSPEL . oh yeah DUPED MANY NOW ARE .

 

[shepherdsword]

Sorry to disagree with you, but everything I said above is accurate. Apostasia means to "stand away from." It means "a departure." It is used this way many times in the NT.

It is only used in two places in the NT. I have posted them both here.To stand away is the same as to depart from. The only other place it's root is used is here, where Paul was accused of departing from the teaching of Moses.

It may be best if I show you the context of Apostasia in 2 Thes 2:

The context is the same as in Acts 21. The great falling away is apostasy. To claim it means the "rapture" is nothing but ignorance:


Here is what AT Robertson has to say about it.



Here is Vincent, in which he notes the word is only used in two places (not many as you claim) in the NT. It is used in the Septuagint as apostasy. However, the fact that we derive our word "apostasy" from it is overwhelming proof that pre tribbers are clutching as straws and twisting scripture:



It is never used as "catching away" or any other term that can be misconstrued as meaning the "rapture"

 

[KUWN]

It is only used in two places in the NT. I have posted them both here.To stand away is the same as to depart from. The only other place it's root is used is here, where Paul was accused of departing from the teaching of Moses.


View attachment 72064


The context is the same as in Acts 21. The great falling away is apostasy. To claim it means the "rapture" is nothing but ignorance:

View attachment 72065
Here is what AT Robertson has to say about it.

View attachment 72066

Here is Vincent, in which he notes the word is only used in two places (not many as you claim) in the NT. It is used in the Septuagint as apostasy. However, the fact that we derive our word "apostasy" from it is overwhelming proof that pre tribbers are clutching as straws and twisting scripture:

View attachment 72067

It is never used as "catching away" or any other term that can be misconstrued as meaning the "rapture"

The Greek root of apostasia in the New Testament (NT) is from the words apo meaning "away" and stasis meaning "to stand," so its literal meaning is "a standing away" or "departure". Dr. Andy Woods interprets this as a physical departure or "rapture" that precedes the Antichrist, a view supported by the historical context of early translations. Others argue that while the word can mean physical departure, the specific context of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 points to a spiritual "falling away" or rebellion against the faith.



Linguistic breakdown of apostasia

• Apo : Greek for "away" or "from".
• Stasis : Greek for "to stand".
• Literal meaning: "To go away from, depart, or to stand away from".
• Figurative meaning: "A leaving, from a previous standing".
  

Interpretations of apostasia in New Testament contexts

• Physical Departure (Rapture):
  Dr. Andy Woods argues that apostasia refers to the rapture, a physical "departing" of believers from the earth before the tribulation. This interpretation is supported by some early translations like the Geneva Bible, which used the word "departing".
  

• Spiritual Departure (Apostasy):
  Another view is that apostasia refers to a spiritual "falling away" or rebellion from the faith, which occurs before the revelation of the Antichrist. Proponents of this view believe the word is used in its more common sense of "defection" or "rebellion against God".
  

Context in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

• The verse reads, "...for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed...".
  

• The context of the passage discusses the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him" (2 Thess 2:1).
  
  
• Some scholars argue that since the topic is the "gathering together," the "falling away" is the opposite: a physical departure.
  

Pastor Andy Woods just completed a 2 part series ... - FacebookNov 16, 2023 — Pastor Andy Woods just completed a 2 part series on 2 Thessalonians 2:3, and how all the early translations had apostasia. What you need to see here is that your definition did not arise until the KJV 1611 was published. People at the time would argue their point just as you are arguing your point today.
The root word for apostasia appears many times in the NT whereas your definition appears for certainty one once Act 21.21.
If you don't want to listen to Dr. Woods sermon on apostasia, then do not bother responding to me.

For 1500 years all translations had apostasia or departure. Nobody used rebellion.

 

[shepherdsword]

The Greek root of apostasia in the New Testament (NT) is from the words apo meaning "away" and stasis meaning "to stand," so its literal meaning is "a standing away" or "departure". Dr. Andy Woods interprets this as a physical departure or "rapture" that precedes the Antichrist, a view supported by the historical context of early translations. Others argue that while the word can mean physical departure, the specific context of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 points to a spiritual "falling away" or rebellion against the faith.



Linguistic breakdown of apostasia

• Apo : Greek for "away" or "from".
• Stasis : Greek for "to stand".
• Literal meaning: "To go away from, depart, or to stand away from".
• Figurative meaning: "A leaving, from a previous standing".

Interpretations of apostasia in New Testament contexts

• Physical Departure (Rapture):
  Dr. Andy Woods argues that apostasia refers to the rapture, a physical "departing" of believers from the earth before the tribulation. This interpretation is supported by some early translations like the Geneva Bible, which used the word "departing".
• 
  
• Spiritual Departure (Apostasy):
  Another view is that apostasia refers to a spiritual "falling away" or rebellion from the faith, which occurs before the revelation of the Antichrist. Proponents of this view believe the word is used in its more common sense of "defection" or "rebellion against God".

Context in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

• The verse reads, "...for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed...".
• The context of the passage discusses the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him" (2 Thess 2:1).
  
  
• Some scholars argue that since the topic is the "gathering together," the "falling away" is the opposite: a physical departure.

Pastor Andy Woods just completed a 2 part series ... - FacebookNov 16, 2023 — Pastor Andy Woods just completed a 2 part series on 2 Thessalonians 2:3, and how all the early translations had apostasia. What you need to see here is that your definition did not arise until the KJV 1611 was published. People at the time would argue their point just as you are arguing your point today.
The root word for apostasia appears many times in the NT whereas your definition appears for certainty one once Act 21.21.
If you don't want to listen to Dr. Woods sermon on apostasia, then do not bother responding to me.

"Pastor" Andy Woods doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. He has no understanding of Greek etymology. he probably got this definition from Les Feldick, who uses the same ignorant definition. I have proved from some of the greatest greek scholars who ever lived that "apostsia" means to depart or fall away. EVERY single bible translation translates it as "rebellion" "depart" or "fall away"

For 1500 years all translations had apostasia or departure. Nobody used rebellion.

So post these "translations' and PROVE IT. And don't respond back unless you are willing to listen to actual Greek scholars and not some pretentious pretender. Andy Woods knows nothing. Here is the actual etymology of the word. So, once again, I challenge you to produce these "translations" for the first 1500 years.

The Greek word ἀποστασία (apostasia) has a rich etymology and historical significance. Here's a breakdown of its origin and meaning:

---

Etymology of ἀποστασία (apostasia):​

• From Ancient Greek:
  ἀποστασία (apostasia)
  → "defection," "revolt," "rebellion," or "falling away"
• Root components:
  • ἀπό (apo) – "away from"
  • στάσις (stasis) – "a standing," "a position," or "a state," from ἵστημι (histēmi), "to stand"

Literally: "a standing away" or "departure/revolt from a position or state"

---

️ Classical and Biblical Usage:​

• In Classical Greek, apostasia was used to describe political rebellion or desertion, such as a citizen rebelling against a state.
• In the New Testament (Koine Greek), it took on a religious or spiritual meaning, often translated as:
  • "apostasy"
  • "falling away" (from faith or truth)
  • "rebellion" (against divine authority)
  • Example:
  • 2 Thessalonians 2:3 – "...for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first..."

---

Related Words:​

• ἀποστάτης (apostates) – "deserter," "rebel," or "apostate" (person)
• Apostasy (English) – Directly derived from apostasia, meaning abandonment of a religious or political beliefs

 

[KUWN]

You’ve just wandered off the topic completely. My post is not on timelines or rapture sequences or end-times charts. My post is on apostasy, the here and now falling away from the truth that Scripture plainly prophesied would occur. Jude and Peter and Paul each foretold this rebellion and said it would come from within the visible church. They did not treat it as a single prophetic event, but as a state of deception and compromise. THAT is what we are observing right now.

Apostasia in ~2 Thessalonians 2:3 does not refer to a physical departure, but to a spiritual defection. This same root word is used in ~1 Timothy 4: 1, where the Spirit says some will depart from the faith. THAT is what the Bible calls apostasy. It is not some speculation or theory. It is happening in real time right now as churches are denying Scripture and sanctioning sin and redefining truth.

If you want to argue about rapture timing, that is a whole other topic that you can start a thread of your own on, but it does not negate what the Word of God already declares: the church today is infiltrated by deception and judgment is coming for those who pervert the gospel. That is the point of this post, and that is where this discussion remains.

Since you can’t even stay on topic and the thread is on apostasy (visible church falling away from the truth), not your charts about end-times, or what scholars everyone must read. You are determined to change the subject from the Word of God to man’s opinions.

And really, don’t act like you are smarter than everyone else just because you quote some scholars. God’s Word interprets itself. The Holy Spirit, not scholars, is the one who brings the saints into all truth ~John 16:13. The Bereans were praised by God for searching the Scriptures, not for reading dissertations ~Acts 17:11.

If you think you need a pile of commentaries in order to rightly divide the Word, then you are already making my point of apostasy: that folks trust human reason and research instead of God’s revelation. So stick to the Word, stay on topic, and stop trying to act like scholarship is spiritual authority. The standard is the Scripture, period.

You’re not the standard. The Scripture is.

Talk about wandering off the subject! (I am not smarter than everyone else.) Where in hades did that come from. All you can do is be a parrot and write what others say. You are not able to seriously work with the Greek text. You misapply John 16.13 without knowing it. The promise there is to the apostles, not all the saints. God gifted pastor-teachers to instruct the Body of Christ. I am through with this discussion. Everything you wrote in this post is man's opinion, right? [I can just hear Paul now teaching at some gathering say: Jesus is God but that is just my opinion.

Finally, tell me about a time in the last 2000 years where the condition you say is found in 2 Thes 2 was not true. Church History is well recorded. If the Reformation was not a falling away, then I don't know what is. So, why didn't the Church enter the Tribulation, since the Reformation fulfilled the prophecy of 2 thes 2. The church at that time was mostly catholic.

I ignored you, so don't bother me any more. To me, you are not an honest person.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Lets reword your first sentence .
The trouble is .... the wolves in sheep suits are so well disguised and they have been around
so long , But a sheep will discern them BY their fruits my friend .
This sheep can whiff a false one very easy .

Why reword it? As I said….”that very few people can tell the the difference anymore.” So why is that?

The “sheep” can tell when something is not right…but the sheep can also be misled by false shepherds who teach the doctrines of demons, and who are themselves misled by “the angel of light”. Satan is not into the business of being obvious….he is the master deceiver, and he has a counterfeit “Christianity”, sown in the world and spreading from the end of the apostolic period….which means that once the apostles passed away, it was open slather for the apostasy to take over, and ever so slowly, to grow into a global entity with power over the masses….this is Christendom, which, in its many divisions, has created nothing but mass confusion.

Anyone who takes their beliefs from this entity are being led down a dark path. The foundations were laid so long ago that no one questions them…..we need to go back to the Bible and start again.

Many have no real desire to serve honor and FOLLOW CHRIST .
Rather they desire some other version that will be contrary to HIM , to HIS WORDS .
Apostacy has been raging and only increases MASSIVE in this last and final hour .
THIS GREAT APOSTACY has one goal . TO UNIFY them all to be as one .

But first, like the devil did with our first parents….he has to separate them from the true God, and take his place in their lives. As you so rightly said….”by their fruits” we will recognize them.
The false Christians will have blood on their hands, and political involvement in their hearts in the mistaken notion that Jesus would condone their loyalties. He told us to be “NO PART of the world” for a very good reason. It would set us apart from Christendom who are up to their necks in politics and the bloodshed that results from military conflicts. Patriotism has been presented as compatible with Christianity, but they are in complete opposition.

You see many are IN LOVE
with a the LOVE OF A HARLOT and of the world and they THINK ITS THE LOVE OF GOD .
WELL its love casts OUT the WORDS OF GOD
and those who bring them and do correct sin and error .
ITS love embraces sins now , been calling evil good and good evil .

The harlot is so confident that she will never fail, or be toppled by any government of man…but she is in for a very big shock, as are all who support her…..Matt 7:21-23 is an indication of who will be rejected at the judgment….those who think that Jesus is their “Lord”….but who will be rejected outright as those he “NEVER KNEW”.

THE LOVE of a HARLOT and HER LOVE , GONNA END THIS GENERATION and THIS WORLD
BY THE VERY GOD they claimed to love and to believe IN HIS CHRIST
seeing THEIR LOVE DENIED HIS WORDS , DENIED HIS GOSPEL . oh yeah DUPED MANY NOW ARE .

The harlot has many lovers….but none of them will save her. It is God who puts it into the hearts of the political powers to destroy her. (Rev 18:4-5) We have to remove ourselves entirely from anything to do with her…if we don’t, we will go down with her.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Lets reword your first sentence .
The trouble is .... the wolves in sheep suits are so well disguised and they have been around
so long , But a sheep will discern them BY their fruits my friend .
This sheep can whiff a false one very easy .
The reason so many have a time and a trouble doing so
IS because how often and how much are they reading and enjoying that bible again .
Many have no real desire to serve honor and FOLLOW CHRIST .
Rather they desire some other version that will be contrary to HIM , to HIS WORDS .
Apostacy has been raging and only increases MASSIVE in this last and final hour .
THIS GREAT APOSTACY has one goal . TO UNIFY them all to be as one .
No longer are they divided by their false doctrines and ways
ITS UNIFYING THEM ALL . the decieved of christendom WITH TEH FALSE RELIGOINS .
ITS a big ol fat love lie and it hollers unity and love all day long
IT will not correct certain sins and it hollers against the TRUE DOCTRINE
and calls THAT DOCTRINE weapons of mass distratction . OH YEAH i been watching them for a long time .
I just quoated the wolf BRIAN MCLAREN from years ago .
IT hollers bridge builders
it hollers alpha courses
it hollers seeker friendly
IT hollers a lot and says love a lot . But examine closely those under this breaking down walls
and healing the so called wound and etc
CAUSE THEY DARN SURE dont have any LOVE now for even the WORDS of GOD , nor those who bring them .
You see many are IN LOVE
with a the LOVE OF A HARLOT and of the world and they THINK ITS THE LOVE OF GOD .
WELL its love casts OUT the WORDS OF GOD
and those who bring them and do correct sin and error .
ITS love embraces sins now , been calling evil good and good evil .
ITs love now even brings in the last of its love
the lie of all lies as it now merges us with all false religoins and even claims we all serve the same GOD .
THE LOVE of a HARLOT and HER LOVE , GONNA END THIS GENERATION and THIS WORLD
BY THE VERY GOD they claimed to love and to believe IN HIS CHRIST
seeing THEIR LOVE DENIED HIS WORDS , DENIED HIS GOSPEL . oh yeah DUPED MANY NOW ARE .

@amigo de christo