The Woman Wonder in Heaven (Rev 12) isn't Israel:

[robert derrick]

Is the Woman with the twelve stars (Tribes) standing on the moon (Mosaic Law/Moses/Old Covenant)?

If Jacob/Israel was born of the Woman and then the Reborn Christians (still Jacob) became Children through CHRIST ...then the Woman isn't Israel?


[Rev 12:1 KJV]
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

[Rev 12:2 KJV]
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

[Rev 12:3 KJV]
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

[Rev 12:4 KJV]
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

[Rev 12:5 KJV]
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.

[Rev 12:6 KJV]
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.


--------------------------------------

Romans 8:22-23
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Matthew 24:8-9
All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.

True. The woman is clothed with the Israel of God. She is not the Israel of God herself.

She is a mother of the Israel of God, which makes her the mother of us all heavenly Jerusalem. (Gal 4)

That woman and mother therefore is the ministry of the God of Israel in the Old and New Testaments.

In opposition to her, is the Mother of harlots and all false ministries, that work against Christ and overthrow the faith of other Christians.

 

[Truth7t7]

True. The woman is clothed with the Israel of God. She is not the Israel of God herself.

She is a mother of the Israel of God, which makes her the mother of us all heavenly Jerusalem. (Gal 4)

That woman and mother therefore is the ministry of the God of Israel in the Old and New Testaments.

In opposition to her, is the Mother of harlots and all false ministries, that work against Christ and overthrow the faith of other Christians.

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

You will closely note Micah 7:13-18 is a detailed description of Revelation 12:6, the Remnant will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, and Gilead, they will be fed "Manna" from heaven as in the days of coming out of Egypt, the world will watch in "Fear" of the Lord's power

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:13-18KJV
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

True. The woman is clothed with the Israel of God. She is not the Israel of God herself.

She is a mother of the Israel of God, which makes her the mother of us all heavenly Jerusalem. (Gal 4)

That woman and mother therefore is the ministry of the God of Israel in the Old and New Testaments.

In opposition to her, is the Mother of harlots and all false ministries, that work against Christ and overthrow the faith of other Christians.

In the inspired prophecies, women at times represent organizations “married” to outstanding personalities. In the Hebrew Scriptures, Israel was spoken of as a wife of YHWH God. (Jeremiah 3:14) In the Greek Scriptures, the congregation of anointed Christians is spoken of as Christ’s bride. (Revelation 21:9-14) The woman John here sees is also married to someone, and she is about to give birth. Who is her husband? Well, later her child is “caught away to God and to his throne.” (Revelation 12:5) YHWH God thus claims the child as his own. Therefore, the woman that John sees must be YHWH God's symbolic wife.
Notice that she is crowned with 12 stars. The number 12 is associated with completeness in an organizational setting. So, these 12 stars seem to indicate that she is an organizational arrangement in heaven, just as ancient Jerusalem was on earth. Jerusalem above is YHWH God's universal organization of spirit creatures that acts as his wife, both in serving him and in producing offspring.The Jerusalem above” then is God’s heavenly “woman,” his organization of mighty spirit creatures.

 

[Davy]

The identity of the symbolic "woman" in Revelation 12 is easy.

In the Rev.12:1-2 verses, the symbolic 'woman' is about Israel, and is linked to the symbols given in Joseph's dreams of Genesis 37. The sun and moon represent Joseph's mother and father, and 12 the stars represent Joseph and his 11 brethren.

In the latter Rev.12:13-17 verses, the symbolic "woman" represents Christ's Church of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles. And the timing is about the last days leading up to Christ's future return.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The identity of the symbolic "woman" in Revelation 12 is easy.

In the Rev.12:1-2 verses, the symbolic 'woman' is about Israel, and is linked to the symbols given in Joseph's dreams of Genesis 37. The sun and moon represent Joseph's mother and father, and 12 the stars represent Joseph and his 11 brethren.

In the latter Rev.12:13-17 verses, the symbolic "woman" represents Christ's Church of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles. And the timing is about the last days leading up to Christ's future return.

I don't agree

 

[Davy]

I don't agree

Then you don't agree with the Scripture as written.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Then you don't agree with the Scripture as written.

Don't agree with that either.

 

[Davy]

Don't agree with that either.

Right, I well know you don't agree with what is written in The Bible.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Right, I well know you don't agree with what is written in The Bible.

Why because you say so. You're not God. To me you're just another imperfect human being who has the right to believe what you choose to believe but just because you believe what you choose to believe doesn't make you some infallible person who can't be wrong. You will continue to choose to believe what you choose to believe, as will I. Nothing you have said convinces me that what you said is true about who this symbolic woman is that you speak of, so I disagree with you.

 

[Davy]

Why because you say so. You're not God. To me you're just another imperfect human being who has the right to believe what you choose to believe but just because you believe what you choose to believe doesn't make you some infallible person who can't be wrong. You will continue to choose to believe what you choose to believe, as will I. Nothing you have said convinces me that what you said is true about who this symbolic woman is that you speak of, so I disagree with you.

Ignorant.

 

[robert derrick]

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11,

She's the ministry of Christ with the church in the wilderness, and today where two or three are gathered together in His name, and tomorrow so long as any of His people remain alive on earth, whether in their homes or gathered together in one place elsewhere.

they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

They will be anywhere they are, ministering to one another without approval of the approved ministers of the last antichrist's Christian religion.

Like Luther ministering without approval of the papacy, but on a much wider scale.

You will closely note

No, I won't. No one has to 'closely note' anything in the Bible. We can just read the words plainly. You can see, that I don't do scholar talk.

Micah 7:13-18 is a detailed description of Revelation 12:6, the Remnant will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, and Gilead, they will be fed "Manna" from heaven as in the days of coming out of Egypt, the world will watch in "Fear" of the Lord's power

Whether in Carmel or Bangladesh, the Lord is the bread from heaven feeding all them that love Him.

None on earth, after the first resurrection of the saints, will be feeding on anything from the Lord, except tribulation and wrath.

Why are their Christians at this time, still fixated on land and birth of flesh?

The Lord will appear again to receive His people unto Himself, and then He will deal with the gathered armies around Armageddon without quarter, and cleanse Jerusalem of the wicked, so that He can sit on David's throne in peace.

The only reason He will be there, is because He said He would, not because of any unbelieving natural people, fouling up the place with their own religion today.

 

[robert derrick]

In the inspired prophecies, women at times represent organizations “married” to outstanding personalities. In the Hebrew Scriptures, Israel was spoken of as a wife of YHWH God. (Jeremiah 3:14) In the Greek Scriptures, the congregation of anointed Christians is spoken of as Christ’s bride. (Revelation 21:9-14) The woman John here sees is also married to someone, and she is about to give birth. Who is her husband? Well, later her child is “caught away to God and to his throne.” (Revelation 12:5) YHWH God thus claims the child as his own. Therefore, the woman that John sees must be YHWH God's symbolic wife.
Notice that she is crowned with 12 stars. The number 12 is associated with completeness in an organizational setting. So, these 12 stars seem to indicate that she is an organizational arrangement in heaven, just as ancient Jerusalem was on earth. Jerusalem above is YHWH God's universal organization of spirit creatures that acts as his wife, both in serving him and in producing offspring.The Jerusalem above” then is God’s heavenly “woman,” his organization of mighty spirit creatures.

Virgin and Bride, yes.

Not woman nor mother.

There is no Scripture calling the Israel and Church of God, a woman nor a mother.

The only mothers named in Scripture are heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of us all, and the mother of all harlots, the mother of all false teachers, that teach their own things, rather than only what is written in Scripture.

Mothers in Scripture are ministry, whether true or false.

The sun is not the Head Jesus Christ, who was the first and only begotten of God, and the stars are all the sons begotten of God by Jesus Christ.

Which includes the OT saints preached to in hell, and then led to heaven in the presence of the Lord.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Is the Woman with the twelve stars (Tribes) standing on the moon (Mosaic Law/Moses/Old Covenant)?

If Jacob/Israel was born of the Woman and then the Reborn Christians (still Jacob) became Children through CHRIST ...then the Woman isn't Israel?


[Rev 12:1 KJV]
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

[Rev 12:2 KJV]
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

[Rev 12:3 KJV]
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

[Rev 12:4 KJV]
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

[Rev 12:5 KJV]
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.

[Rev 12:6 KJV]
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.


--------------------------------------

Romans 8:22-23
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Matthew 24:8-9
All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.

The Woman is Israel. The vision follows Joseph dream.

Also Jesus was born of Israel and not the church.

Also Israel during the Tribulation will flee into teh wilderness and God cares for them for 3 1/2 years.

 

[shilohsfoal]

[Rev 12:4 KJV]
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


[/SIZE]

Have you ever considered who tried to kill Christ as soon as he was born?

I don't think many people consider the king of Judea as being the beast.They don't consider today's israeli government as being anything important in scripture.
Perhaps after the church flees Israel ,they will finally see the light.

 

[Truth7t7]

She's the ministry of Christ with the church in the wilderness, and today where two or three are gathered together in His name

"I Disagree"

Your "Symbolic" interpretation of the Church where two or three are gathered, being fulfillment of the future "Literal" seen below is 100% Error

Below you see physical earthly locations, Carmel, Bashan, Gilead, and you have "Literal Nations" upon this earth watching in fear of the Lord

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

You will closely note Micah 7:13-18 is a detailed description of Revelation 12:6, the Remnant will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, and Gilead, they will be fed "Manna" from heaven as in the days of coming out of Egypt, the world will watch in "Fear" of the Lord's power

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:13-18KJV
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

A crown of twelve stars doesn't make the Woman wearing it ...Israel. If you read through the thread you would understand Israel is the seed ...not The Woman.

The promised "seed" is Jesus.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

"I Disagree"

Your "Symbolic" interpretation of the Church where two or three are gathered, being fulfillment of the future "Literal" seen below is 100% Error

Jesus being where two or three are gathered in His name, is not symbolic.

And there's no interpretation to make. It's just Scriptural truth.

The same now and in the future.

Below you see physical earthly locations, Carmel, Bashan, Gilead, and you have "Literal Nations" upon this earth watching in fear of the Lord

True, and if two are three are gathered in Christ, there He is.

It takes only members of the church, for there to be the church of Jesus Christ.

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

The church is never called a woman nor a mother.

The only time the church is ever spoken of as a mother, is by those who want to interpret it that way in Rev 12.

You will closely note Micah 7:13-18 is a detailed description of Revelation 12:6, the Remnant will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, and Gilead, they will be fed "Manna" from heaven as in the days of coming out of Egypt, the world will watch in "Fear" of the Lord's power

Already answered this.

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:13-18KJV
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[Truth7t7]

True, and if two are three are gathered in Christ, there He is.

It takes only members of the church, for there to be the church of Jesus Christ.

You have 2-3 individuals in the wilderness of Carmel,, Bashan, and Gilead representing the "Remnant" spoken of in scripture seen below as the world watches, as you bend scripture to suit your need "Sad"

There's one believer in Carmel, one in Gilead, and one in Bashan, your claims are a twisted fairy tale in "Denial" of biblical truth

Micah 7:13-18KJV
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[robert derrick]

You have 2-3 individuals in the wilderness of Carmel,, Bashan, and Gilead representing the "Remnant" spoken of in scripture seen below as the world watches, as you bend scripture to suit your need "Sad"

There's one believer in Carmel, one in Gilead, and one in Bashan, your claims are a twisted fairy tale in "Denial" of biblical truth

Typical.

As with humor, hyperbole is only accurate with a kernel of truth in it.

All else is just childish spit-balls.

Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

 

[robert derrick]

No Scripture ever refers to Israel as a woman, nor a mother.

Only men say so from Rev 12.

Jacob and 11 of his sons were the sun. moon, and stars, not a woman clothed with them.

The Israel of God is now the sun, moon, and 12 stars, with Jesus as the Head and sun.

The woman clothed with the church, giving birth to members thereof, is obviously the mother of us all, heavenly Jerusalem in Gal 4: the ministry of Christ and the saints, and the gospel of our salvation.

It's always so much easier to let Scripture interpret Scripture. However, easy isn't always fun for the inteelect, and so people like to make things confusing on purpose, and then show how smart they are in unravelling it with their own personal keys.

Like Alexander and the Gordian knot, when we use the sword of Scripture straightly, then we can just cut through all the confusing mass of personal interpretations, of men's own intellectual minds.