1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Because it was quoted by a very early church father, I'll accept it as fact. You can have the deleted version if you wish, but there was an agenda...
"The word was a god"?
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Because it was quoted by a very early church father, I'll accept it as fact. You can have the deleted version if you wish, but there was an agenda...
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Yea, the agenda was the tradition's of man to cancel the word of God. The 'early church Father' is not Scripture.
And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.
Mark 7:13 NLT
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
..............................................................................
Examining the Trinity: 1 John 5:7 (KJV)
I’m thoroughly convinced that it’s not original but, even if it were, it still doesn’t say that the one God is the Trinity. Trinitarian interpretation is still required to make that leap.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Agreed. In another thread 'Jesus is God' the statement was made that the trinity MUST be taken on faith. Why this is a must is another Trinitarian leap.
What do you mean by the "other" Paul?
This means that sin and death for everyone came from (originated, or resulted from the actions of) one man, Adam, Romans 5:12 (WEB):
(12) Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned.
and the resurrection of the dead also came from (orginated, or resulted from the actions of) one man, Jesus, the Christ, Romans 5:15-21 (WEB):
(15) But the free gift isn’t like the trespass. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
(16) The gift is not as through one who sinned: for the judgment came by one to condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses to justification.
(17) For if by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; so much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ.
(18) So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life.
(19) For as through the one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one [man], many will be made righteous.
(20) The law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace abounded more exceedingly;
(21) that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
It was through the acts of Jesus, while he was a man (100% man), that we are saved and redeemed, and can look forward to the promised resurrection to eternal life.
Paul is saying that God has appointed judgement of the world to the man Jesus, who He has raised from the dead. It is evident that since his resurrection Jesus is no longer a man, for he is not living on the Earth and we are told that he is sat down in heaven at the right hand of God.
1 Cornthians 15:45-49 (WEB):
(45) So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
(46) However that which is spiritual isn’t first, but that which is natural, then that which is spiritual.
(47) The first man is of the earth, made of dust. The second man is the Lord from heaven.
(48) As is the one made of dust, such are those who are also made of dust; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
(49) As we have borne the image of those made of dust, let’s also bear the image of the heavenly.
Irrelevant to Jesus' nature.
Why is the man Jesus the mediator between men and God? Because, continuing the sentence to verse 6 (KJV):
(6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
It was Jesus as a man who sacrificed his life for all mankind, and as a man was familiar with our trials and temptations, Hebrews 4:15 (WEB):
(15) For we don’t have a high priest who can’t be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin.
Paul is explaining that Jesus' ministry as a high priest is more excellent than the ministry of human Aaronic priesthood, because he is the "mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises", and the blood of the sacrifice of his human life was far greater than the blood of sacrifice of animals, which were a type pointing foward to Jesus' sacrifice.
Hebrews 5:4-10 (WEB):
(4) Nobody takes this honor [of being high priest] on himself, but he is called by God, just like Aaron was.
(5) So also Christ didn’t glorify himself to be made a high priest, but it was he who said to him, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father.”
(6) As he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.”
(7) He, in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to him who was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear,
(8) though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered.
(9) Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation,
(10) named by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
Why would Paul say "in the days of his flesh"? Because Jesus is no longer in the days of his flesh, he has been perfected, glorified and been made a spirit being. Jesus prayed to God, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5). When he existed with God before the world had been made, no human had been made, and so obviously Jesus was not a man then. So Jesus was praying for God to restore him to his previous spirit being form after he had sacrificed his human body. God not only answered that prayer but he highly exalted him, Philippians 2:8-11 (WEB):
(8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
(10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
(11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
We (Christians) have the promise of being changed to be made to be like Jesus is now (1 John 3:2), having an immortal (cannot possibly die) spirit nature ("It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body", 1 Corinthians 15:44), the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). If that's how we'll be then it is clear that Jesus is no longer a man.
2 Corinthians5:16-17 (WEB):
(16) Therefore we know no one after the flesh from now on. Even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more.
(17) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.
Really? You did not even come close to getting the joke??? My name is Paul... the other Paul...the one sent for this time!
Now you know... what I have to deal with...
I'm the other Paul!!!
I'm glad you got there before me... I would have had too much fun...! LOLI think you're typing out of your anus.I think you'll find that should be Arius, not Anus.
Paul
What do you mean by the "other" Paul?
This means that sin and death for everyone came from (originated, or resulted from the actions of) one man, Adam, Romans 5:12 (WEB):
(12) Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned.
and the resurrection of the dead also came from (orginated, or resulted from the actions of) one man, Jesus, the Christ, Romans 5:15-21 (WEB):
(15) But the free gift isn’t like the trespass. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
(16) The gift is not as through one who sinned: for the judgment came by one to condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses to justification.
(17) For if by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; so much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ.
(18) So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life.
(19) For as through the one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one [man], many will be made righteous.
(20) The law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace abounded more exceedingly;
(21) that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
It was through the acts of Jesus, while he was a man (100% man), that we are saved and redeemed, and can look forward to the promised resurrection to eternal life.
Paul is saying that God has appointed judgement of the world to the man Jesus, who He has raised from the dead. It is evident that since his resurrection Jesus is no longer a man, for he is not living on the Earth and we are told that he is sat down in heaven at the right hand of God.
1 Cornthians 15:45-49 (WEB):
(45) So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
(46) However that which is spiritual isn’t first, but that which is natural, then that which is spiritual.
(47) The first man is of the earth, made of dust. The second man is the Lord from heaven.
(48) As is the one made of dust, such are those who are also made of dust; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
(49) As we have borne the image of those made of dust, let’s also bear the image of the heavenly.
Irrelevant to Jesus' nature.
Why is the man Jesus the mediator between men and God? Because, continuing the sentence to verse 6 (KJV):
(6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
It was Jesus as a man who sacrificed his life for all mankind, and as a man was familiar with our trials and temptations, Hebrews 4:15 (WEB):
(15) For we don’t have a high priest who can’t be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin.
Paul is explaining that Jesus' ministry as a high priest is more excellent than the ministry of human Aaronic priesthood, because he is the "mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises", and the blood of the sacrifice of his human life was far greater than the blood of sacrifice of animals, which were a type pointing foward to Jesus' sacrifice.
Hebrews 5:4-10 (WEB):
(4) Nobody takes this honor [of being high priest] on himself, but he is called by God, just like Aaron was.
(5) So also Christ didn’t glorify himself to be made a high priest, but it was he who said to him, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father.”
(6) As he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.”
(7) He, in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to him who was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear,
(8) though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered.
(9) Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation,
(10) named by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
Why would Paul say "in the days of his flesh"? Because Jesus is no longer in the days of his flesh, he has been perfected, glorified and been made a spirit being. Jesus prayed to God, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5). When he existed with God before the world had been made, no human had been made, and so obviously Jesus was not a man then. So Jesus was praying for God to restore him to his previous spirit being form after he had sacrificed his human body. God not only answered that prayer but he highly exalted him, Philippians 2:8-11 (WEB):
(8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
(10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
(11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
We (Christians) have the promise of being changed to be made to be like Jesus is now (1 John 3:2), having an immortal (cannot possibly die) spirit nature ("It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body", 1 Corinthians 15:44), the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). If that's how we'll be then it is clear that Jesus is no longer a man.
2 Corinthians5:16-17 (WEB):
(16) Therefore we know no one after the flesh from now on. Even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more.
(17) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.
Given that you have no clue of what you speak.... AND that You have no understanding of biblical Agency...
I'm going to make you look STUPID.... Really stupid... Why??? because you have no answer to what I'm about to show you!!!
One simple question... What truth did Peter speak in act 12:7-17???
Act 12:7 And behold, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared and a light shone in the cell; and he struck Peter's side and woke him up, saying, "Get up quickly." And his chains fell off his hands. 8 And the angel said to him, "Gird yourself and put on your sandals." And he did so. And he *said to him, "Wrap your cloak around you and follow me."
Act 12:17 But motioning to them with his hand to be silent, he described to them how the Lord had led him out of the prison. And he said, "Report these things to James and the brethren." Then he left and went to another place.
OK keithr... Who let Peter out of prison... an Angel of the Lord or the Lord himself??? What did Peter what humanity to know.... YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!!
Paul
When you speak to people that way do you really think it shows us that you know the word that is God?
I saw the new post that I already replied to before I saw this one.
Now I get it. You're a troll! Likely wondering how long you'll last posting as you do.
Prayerfully, not long. Goodbye.
GLAD YOU CAME TO MAN UP!!! Whom came to Peter an Angel or the LORD... Tell us Mr Blue Dragonfly's... Peter said both... Whom came to Peter in Act 12:7... It was not Jesus my friend!
Act 12:7 And behold, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared and a light shone in the cell; and he struck Peter's side and woke him up, saying, "Get up quickly." And his chains fell off his hands. 8 And the angel said to him, "Gird yourself and put on your sandals." And he did so. And he *said to him, "Wrap your cloak around you and follow me."
Act 12:17 But motioning to them with his hand to be silent, he described to them how the Lord had led him out of the prison. And he said, "Report these things to James and the brethren." Then he left and went to another place.
Come on Mr Blue Dragon show us the difference... You going to start teaching Jesus was an Angel??? Really?
Let me teach you about Angels....
The New Testament puts this theory about the angel of the Lord being Jesus in his preexistence to rest in Hebrews 1: “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son” (v 1-2).
So, the Son of God “did not speak” in the Old Testament days! Back in those days God spoke in various ways and only in “portions,” whether by vision or by prophet or by angel. It is only since Jesus Christ was brought into existence at birth and appeared “in these last days” that we have heard God speak “in his Son.” This is axiomatic. Jesus Christ was not God's messenger before his appearance as a man, born of Mary in history. Look at the scriptures:
Act 7:53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it."
Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty,
Do I know the word of God Blue Dragonfly?
Obviously more than you!!!
Paul
Try posting some meat... how much baby milk can you hold??? Your like a breast feeding man! Man up... Even Jesus spanked the money exchangers in the temple. Take off you diaper and teach something!!!
PAUL
That's so kind of you. You're wrong again though, I do have an answer for you.
The angel let Peter out of prison. As Peter said, Acts 12:11 (WEB):
(11) When Peter had come to himself, he said, “Now I truly know that the Lord has sent out his angel and delivered me out of the hand of Herod, and from everything the Jewish people were expecting.”
If you meant to type "What did Peter want humanity to know?" then I can't say. All the Scripture records (in verse 17) is that he wanted "James and the brothers" to be told how Jesus had helped him. What he wanted humanity to know it doesn't say.
Such humility! May I remind you of some of the other Paul's writings:
Ephesians 4:1-3 (WEB):
(1) I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called,
(2) with all lowliness and humility, with patience, bearing with one another in love;
(3) being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Colossians 3:12,14 (WEB):(2) with all lowliness and humility, with patience, bearing with one another in love;
(3) being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
(12) Put on therefore, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, a heart of compassion, kindness, lowliness, humility, and perseverance;
(14) Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection.
Titus 3:2 (WEB):(14) Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection.
(2) to speak evil of no one, not to be contentious, to be gentle, showing all humility toward all men.
As Jesus said, Matthew 11:29 (WEB):
(29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you will find rest for your souls.
I'll teach you something. "Your like a breast feeding man" is bad English. It should be "You are" or "you're", not your. You should get the simple things correct if you expect and want people to believe the more complex things you might try to teach. If you sound like an idiot then others will most likely treat you like an idiot and not take notice of what you say.
There you go... Not dealing with how wrong you actually are.... Not how I showed and spanked you with the truth... Your just diverting how really biblically bad you looked! Yet... I'm not sure everyone here is more concerned about the english language... than how bad your biblical understanding exposed you as a child!
Paul
Mat 21:12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove (Spanked) out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves.
Context Keither....
Sometimes you need to overturn the tables....
Thus the tables have been turned on you!!! Stop crying... Learn and start posting some biblical meat!!!
Paul
I gave you an answer in post #693.
So do you think my answer in post #693 was right or wrong? Did I have a clue or not, in your opinion?
I have not been crying. I posted some "biblical meat" in post #664 which was in response to your post #660. You have not commented on that; so do you agree with what I posted, or are you still confused?
Dude... Stop crying.... and post it again! Things are get missed!!!
Something was missed...
Don't be Satan's...Messenger !!
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So you're not going to answer then?
As I mentioned, it was only a few posts ago in post #693 that I gave my short answer. While you were reading post #698, which you've just replied to, are you really saying that you couldn't be bothered to click on the scroll bar 2 or 3 times to read the short post that I was referring to?
If your response was regarding missing my post #664, then I know you're lying because you did reply to that post, but only to the short question 'What do you mean by the "other" Paul?'. Your only comment on the meat of the post, all of the Scripture references and comments, was to say:
Given that you have no clue of what you speak.... AND that You have no understanding of biblical Agency...
I'm going to make you look STUPID.... Really stupid... Why??? because you have no answer to what I'm about to show you!!!
I'm going to make you look STUPID.... Really stupid... Why??? because you have no answer to what I'm about to show you!!!
So, rather than commenting on what I wrote you simply diverted to asking a random question which you claimed I would not be able to answer. I did answer, and yet you don't seem to be willing to acknowledge that.
What did I write in post #698 that could possibly make you think that I am a messenger of Satan? Why are you being so insulting?
Ephesians 4:29 (WEB):
(29) Let no corrupt speech proceed out of your mouth, but only what is good for building others up as the need may be, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Galations 6 (WEB):
(3) For if a man thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
(4) But let each man examine his own work, and then he will have reason to boast in himself, and not in someone else.
(7) Don’t be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
(8) For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
(9) Let’s not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we don’t give up.
(10) So then, as we have opportunity, let’s do what is good toward all men, and especially toward those who are of the household of the faith.
(4) But let each man examine his own work, and then he will have reason to boast in himself, and not in someone else.
(7) Don’t be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
(8) For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
(9) Let’s not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we don’t give up.
(10) So then, as we have opportunity, let’s do what is good toward all men, and especially toward those who are of the household of the faith.
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