The Wrath of the Lamb vs. the Wrath of God

[David H.]

Is there a difference? and What is the difference?

Scriptures to consider:
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (Revelation 6:16)

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Revelation 14:19)

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. (Revelation 15:1)

Some of You Know my view on this already, and I will elaborate later, for now I want to see other peoples views and thoughts.

 

[Naomi25]

Is there a difference? and What is the difference?

Scriptures to consider:
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (Revelation 6:16)

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Revelation 14:19)

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. (Revelation 15:1)

Some of You Know my view on this already, and I will elaborate later, for now I want to see other peoples views and thoughts.

Well…without digging into this deeply, my initial thought is: its not really explained as different anyway. Consider:

Revelation 6:16-17
[16] calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, [17] for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

We see in this passage that specifies the ‘wrath of the Lamb’, that it is, in fact, “the great day of THEIR wrath”. In fact, if we pull apart the whole sentence, we see those calling out to “hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb”. It then goes on to tell us that the day of ‘their’ wrath has come. So, it is a day of BOTH of their wrath. Of the Lamb, AND of the one who “is seated on the throne”.
So, in point of fact, this passage is not trying to separate the wrath of God and of the Lamb, it’s trying to tell us that the Lamb and God ARE ONE. In wrath, in punishment, in justice, in righteousness.

 

[David H.]

Well…without digging into this deeply, my initial thought is: its not really explained as different anyway. Consider:

Revelation 6:16-17
[16] calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, [17] for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

We see in this passage that specifies the ‘wrath of the Lamb’, that it is, in fact, “the great day of THEIR wrath”. In fact, if we pull apart the whole sentence, we see those calling out to “hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb”. It then goes on to tell us that the day of ‘their’ wrath has come. So, it is a day of BOTH of their wrath. Of the Lamb, AND of the one who “is seated on the throne”.
So, in point of fact, this passage is not trying to separate the wrath of God and of the Lamb, it’s trying to tell us that the Lamb and God ARE ONE. In wrath, in punishment, in justice, in righteousness.

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (KJV)

I Will look into this later when I have time. Suffice it to say, is verse 16 creating a plurality referring to 1 Him who is seated on the throne and 2 the Lamb, or is it speaking of a singular Lamb who sits on the throne.

 

[Truth7t7]

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (KJV)

I Will look into this later when I have time. Suffice it to say, is verse 16 creating a plurality referring to 1 Him who is seated on the throne and 2 the Lamb, or is it speaking of a singular Lamb who sits on the throne.

I agree, I posted the same and removed it

Do translations make a difference, absolutely

Below the KJV has a man that was in the monotheistic lineage if the true "God" that has no desire for women?

The NIV has a polytheistic gods of ancestors, and he is a playboy desired by women?

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Daniel 11:37NIV
37 He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.

 

[Davy]

Is there a difference? and What is the difference?

Scriptures to consider:
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (Revelation 6:16)

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Revelation 14:19)

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. (Revelation 15:1)

Some of You Know my view on this already, and I will elaborate later, for now I want to see other peoples views and thoughts.

The "wrath" of Rev.6 and Rev.14 and specifically on the 7th Vial in Rev.16 is the "wrath" that Apostle Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5. It is about God's wrath upon the wicked on the LAST day of this present world when Jesus returns.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Is there a difference? and What is the difference?

Scriptures to consider:
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (Revelation 6:16)

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Revelation 14:19)

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. (Revelation 15:1)

Some of You Know my view on this already, and I will elaborate later, for now I want to see other peoples views and thoughts.

15 Then everyone—the kings of the earth, the rulers, the generals, the wealthy, the powerful, and every slave and free person—all hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they cried to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb.17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to survive?”

Everyone? Some people think they will live through all that tribulation and that some of them will be beheaded and some of them will survive it. Are those survivors included in that “everyone”?

 

[Davy]

Is there a difference? and What is the difference?

Scriptures to consider:
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (Revelation 6:16)

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Revelation 14:19)

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. (Revelation 15:1)

Some of You Know my view on this already, and I will elaborate later, for now I want to see other peoples views and thoughts.

Don't forget the parable that Jesus spoke to the Jewish women that cried for Him on His way to be crucified...

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.

28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us'."
KJV

Jesus quoted that to those daughters of Jerusalem from Isaiah 54 about the 'blessed are the barren' parable, which is an allegory applied towards true worship vs. false worship.

The Interpretation:
1. Jesus is pointing to the day of His future coming.
2. the "Daughters of Jerusalem" is pointing to the unbelieving Jews, including on the day of His future return when they will see Jesus (Revelation 1:7; end of Zechariah 12).
3. the deceived unbelieving 'daughters of Jerusalem' on that day is who will say, "Blessed are the barren...", and will wish for the mountains and hills to "Cover us". It will be because of their SHAME of having rejected Jesus Christ when He appears, and they finally 'know' beyond all doubt Who He is.
4. The 'barren' that are blessed represent Christ's faithful elect who wait on His return.
5. those 'with child' (spiritually) are those who were deceived, and spiritually wed another in place of Christ, just prior to Jesus' return.

That is what the Isaiah 54 parable is about. If your spiritual womb stays 'barren' waiting on Jesus' future return, then it means you remained faithful waiting for Lord Jesus to come. If you didn't... then it means you spiritually bore many children as an already married wife when Jesus does come, and finds you were unfaithful. That is truly what the parable is about.

What this means ultimately is, that His wrath on the day of His coming is upon the flesh, but not their spirit. The world to come when Lord Jesus returns is going to be a spiritual body type age. Man is no longer going to be in flesh bodies once the "day of the Lord" happens with Jesus' return.

 

[Davy]

Is there a difference? and What is the difference?

Scriptures to consider:
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (Revelation 6:16)

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Revelation 14:19)

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. (Revelation 15:1)

Some of You Know my view on this already, and I will elaborate later, for now I want to see other peoples views and thoughts.

Luke 21:22-23
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

The "days of vengeance" is about the final day of this world when Jesus returns. That event was prophesied also in Isaiah 61:2.

Notice the "wrath" is that upon those people that are "with child, and to them that give suck, in those days". That is easily interpreted to mean pregnant women during the tribulation having hardship. But it's also implicitly pointing to the allegory Jesus gave in Luke 23 from Isaiah 54 about "Blessed are the barren...".

Thus the connection with that "days of vengeance" and that "wrath"?

That's God Wrath upon the deceived who failed to remain spiritually barren and without child, but instead appear having already married the fake-Christ when Jesus does appear later.

 

[David H.]

The Interpretation:
1. Jesus is pointing to the day of His future coming.
2. the "Daughters of Jerusalem" is pointing to the unbelieving Jews, including on the day of His future return when they will see Jesus (Revelation 1:7; end of Zechariah 12).
3. the deceived unbelieving 'daughters of Jerusalem' on that day is who will say, "Blessed are the barren...", and will wish for the mountains and hills to "Cover us". It will be because of their SHAME of having rejected Jesus Christ when He appears, and they finally 'know' beyond all doubt Who He is.
4. The 'barren' that are blessed represent Christ's faithful elect who wait on His return.
5. those 'with child' (spiritually) are those who were deceived, and spiritually wed another in place of Christ, just prior to Jesus' return.

Does this not apply to the tares in the church as well?

 

[David H.]

I agree, I posted the same and removed it

Do translations make a difference, absolutely

Below the KJV has a man that was in the monotheistic lineage if the true "God" that has no desire for women?

The NIV has a polytheistic gods of ancestors, and he is a playboy desired by women?

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Daniel 11:37NIV
37 He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.

The NIV is one of the worst translations out there, this being a prime example.

 

[Truth7t7]

The "wrath" of Rev.6 and Rev.14 and specifically on the 7th Vial in Rev.16 is the "wrath" that Apostle Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5. It is about God's wrath upon the wicked on the LAST day of this present world when Jesus returns.

I agree 100% good post

 

[Truth7t7]

Does this not apply to the tares in the church as well?

Aren't any tares in the "invisible" church

Wolves in sheep's clothing would be a better expression?

 

[amigo de christo]

The warth of the lamb IS THE WRATH OF GOD . IT IS HE WHO TREADES the winepress of the wrath of GOD .
WHEN JESUS said all judgment was given unto HIM by the FATHER . TRUE IT IS .
JESUS wont be coming with cookies and hugs for all who denied him or followed another religoin or path .
BUT IF WE ARE HIS , WE GO HOME WITH HIM on that day . WOE to the world on that day is all i can say .

 

[Naomi25]

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (KJV)

I Will look into this later when I have time. Suffice it to say, is verse 16 creating a plurality referring to 1 Him who is seated on the throne and 2 the Lamb, or is it speaking of a singular Lamb who sits on the throne.

Well, the Greek word used is ‘autos’, which can be used as he or they. But, in context of the whole verse, I’d say ‘they’ is proper, even though, yes, it is creating unity between the two.

“…hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, [17] for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

The “and” tells us that the wrath, the judgment is from both he who sits on the throne AND the Lamb. Thus, I would suggest the “their” is most appropriate. For, while theologically we confess they are both God within the Trinity, they do hold their personal distinctions.

 

[David H.]

Well, the Greek word used is ‘autos’, which can be used as he or they. But, in context of the whole verse, I’d say ‘they’ is proper, even though, yes, it is creating unity between the two.

“…hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, [17] for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

The “and” tells us that the wrath, the judgment is from both he who sits on the throne AND the Lamb. Thus, I would suggest the “their” is most appropriate. For, while theologically we confess they are both God within the Trinity, they do hold their personal distinctions.

The way I see it is that Jesus is the one seated on the throne, and that both sides of the "And" Point to different aspects that those involved fear of the Lamb. The reasoning I use is that No one has ever seen the "face of the Father".

Interesting topic.

 

[Taken]

Is there a difference? and What is the difference?

Scriptures to consider:
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (Revelation 6:16)

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Revelation 14:19)

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. (Revelation 15:1)

Some of You Know my view on this already, and I will elaborate later, for now I want to see other peoples views and thoughts.

Wrath of the Lamb,
Wrath of God.
Yes, a difference.

Wrath of the Lamb; Seals/ purposed toward persons who do not Believe in Jesus the Christ Messiah.

Wrath of God; purposed toward persons who do not Believe;
in Jesus the Christ Messiah;
And
in God;
And
have commited to another, as their god;
(ie Mark of the Beast)
And
have persecuted persons who Believed;
in God or Jesus the Christ Messiah.
(ie Gods Wrath/ vials, mixed with Gods cup of vengeance).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

Does this not apply to the tares in the church as well?

Of course The Father's Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ is offered to all... who will believe, including those of the 'tares' that turn to Christ Jesus.

But the 'tares' that creep in, like we are forewarned in the Book of Jude and by Apostle Peter, those represent the 'tares' that do not turn to Christ. That would mean these creep into the Church in order to corrupt the congregation, like the Jezebel of Revelation 2:20.