There is a dispute

[mjrhealth]

There is a dispute,

Not just here amongst Christians but even between God and the satan,

IS Jesus God???

And we have a witness, and odd one at that, that says HE is not God, satan Himself.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

For you see, satan, the accuser of the brethren, was Gods top angel, keeper of the light, so He knew God, remember Job, and that little dispute that satan had with God over Job.

Satan wasn’t questioning whether Jesus was God but whether He was the son of God, because

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

God himself could never, for legal reasons full fill this redemption of mankind, it had to be a man, even Christ Himself was not considered a son until,

2Pe_1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

If Jesus was God HE would never have needed the Spirit of God.

For it was Christ, the Word of God that was sent to the Cross to redeem mankind as Jesus said,

Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

For the new covenant was not made with men as it was with Israel, but with Christ, God the father made a new and everlasting covenant with Jesus His Son, whom signed that Covenant with His blood, which,

Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

So in Christ is the new Covenant fulfilled and made complete in Christ, and Jesus having completed the task the Father had given Him returned to God, as it says,

Isa_55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

And so His blood even today is still at work covering the sins of men,

Lev_17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

So there is no more work for men except to believe, for Christ has fulfilled all the requirements to redeem men back to God. And God not only will HE never break a covenant, He certainly will not one with His own Son.

Mar_11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

 

[brian100]

You can't prove God with just a bible.. Its like proving Allah with a book.

You would have to go outside the bible to an alternate source to prove God.

 

[101G]

You can't prove God with just a bible.. Its like proving Allah with a book.

You would have to go outside the bible to an alternate source to prove God.

not everything, but we cannot agree with that assessment, scripture, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

so there is no excuse to use the bible.

PICJAG.

 

[mjrhealth]

You can't prove God with just a bible.. Its like proving Allah with a book.

You would have to go outside the bible to an alternate source to prove God.

Well at least I can agree with you on that bit.

 

[brian100]

Once you get the proof of God... then that proves the bible. But then you need to find the right bible.. Douay, KJB, NIV?

 

[mjrhealth]

Once you get the proof of God... then that proves the bible. But then you need to find the right bible.. Douay, KJB, NIV?

No just need to find Jesus.

 

[Stumpmaster]

There is a dispute,
Not just here amongst Christians but even between God and the satan,
IS Jesus God???
And we have a witness, and odd one at that, that says HE is not God, satan Himself.

WARNING: LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU BY ANY MEANS
2Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

If Jesus isn't God then simply put, people who believe Jesus is God and worship Him as such are sinning.

Exo 20:1-7 And God spake all these words, saying, (2) I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. (3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; (6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (7) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

 

[brian100]

No just need to find Jesus.

I was lucky my mother told me to believe in Jesus age 3.. I'm just saying for kids who had atheist parents.

However many people told me Jesus was a fake God so I looked into it.. and they called Mary a fake, too. I've proved them all wrong.

 

[mjrhealth]

WARNING: LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU BY ANY MEANS
2Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

If Jesus isn't God then simply put, people who believe Jesus is God and worship Him as such are sinning.

Exo 20:1-7 And God spake all these words, saying, (2) I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. (3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; (6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (7) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

You would be surprised how christians sin against God continually, good thing He is patient with men.

 

[Brakelite]

Yep, Jesus was the Son of God. So true. And what did the Father say of His Son?
KJV Hebrews 1
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[tigger 2]

Literally the NT Greek manuscripts read at Heb. 1:8: “Toward but the son the throne of you the god into the age of the age.”

There is evidence that the proper translation of Heb. 1:8 (as well as Ps. 45:6) should be “your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.”

And yet we find that nearly all Bibles use ONLY the trinitarian-preferred translation ('your throne, O God, is forever'). For example, all 60 entries for Heb. 1:8 at BibleGateway use only this interpretation! https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews%201:8


Oxford professor and famed trinitarian Bible translator, Dr. James Moffatt, was described as “probably the greatest biblical scholar of our day.” His Bible translation renders Heb. 1:8 as:

“God is thy throne for ever and ever.”

University of Cambridge professor and noted New Testament language scholar, Dr. C. F. D. Moule reluctantly admits that Heb. 1:8 may conceivably be “construed so as to mean Thy throne is God” - p. 32, An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, Cambridge University Press, 1990 printing.

An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), renders it: “God is your throne....” And The Bible in Living English (Byington) reads: “God is your throne....” The Message reads: “Your throne is God’s throne….” NSB - "God is your throne" Mace - "God is thy throne….” Twentieth Century Translation - ‘God is thy throne….’

Noted NT scholar Dr. William Barclay, in his translation of the New Testament, has also rendered Hebrews 1:8 as : “God is your throne for ever and ever.”

Famed trinitarian (Southern Baptist) New Testament Greek scholar Dr. A. T. Robertson acknowledges that either “Thy throne, O God” or “God is thy throne” may be proper renderings: “Either makes good sense.” - p. 339, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. V.

Since this is admitted by even a few respected trinitarian scholars and translators, it is certainly not a proof for Jesus being equally God.

 

[Joseph77]

Jesus is proof Himself of Jesus and the Father being echad, one , eternally....

Scholars and other so-called educated ones , seeking to prove something else, are in great error, and lost.

 

[mjrhealth]

@DNB Just in case you missed this one

 

[101G]

Literally the NT Greek manuscripts read at Heb. 1:8: “Toward but the son the throne of you the god into the age of the age.”

There is evidence that the proper translation of Heb. 1:8 (as well as Ps. 45:6) should be “your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.”

And yet we find that nearly all Bibles use ONLY the trinitarian-preferred translation ('your throne, O God, is forever'). For example, all 60 entries for Heb. 1:8 at BibleGateway use only this interpretation! https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews%201:8


Oxford professor and famed trinitarian Bible translator, Dr. James Moffatt, was described as “probably the greatest biblical scholar of our day.” His Bible translation renders Heb. 1:8 as:

“God is thy throne for ever and ever.”

thanks for that reply, but what do the bible clearly say about God on the Throne? scripture, Acts 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."
Acts 2:30 "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;"
Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."
Acts 2:32 "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses."

OK, verse 30 "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;"
WELL WHO'S REALLY GOING TO SIT ON THE THRONE? scripture, Psalms 132:11 "The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne."

well, well, well, the "I" here, in Psalms 132:11 is the LORD all caps, indicating the ordinal "First"/the Father. now either Jesus is the "LORD" all caps, which make the one speaking in Heb. 1:8 the LORD who is God, and if son, then one have Jesus speaking of and to himself. for the fruit of David body.. (Mary), came the Lord Jesus.

well now, we have either a contridiction or the truth about GOD as the "ANOTHER"/G243 Allos of himself as God. this kinda clear up that mess "God is thy throne for ever and ever.”

christian as well as scholars miss Psalms 132:11, so lets reconcile Psalms 132:11, shall we?

PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

@DNB Just in case you missed this one

Thank you, I will review when I get a chance...!

 

[DNB]

If Jesus isn't God then simply put, people who believe Jesus is God and worship Him as such are sinning.

Yes, I would emphatically agree with that point. I believe that Jesus is not God, that there is only one God, the Father. And any attempt to deify Christ ,or anyone else but the Father, is an egregious sin. Damnable in my opinion.

 

[DNB]

There is a dispute,

Not just here amongst Christians but even between God and the satan,

IS Jesus God???

And we have a witness, and odd one at that, that says HE is not God, satan Himself.

For you see, satan, the accuser of the brethren, was Gods top angel, keeper of the light, so He knew God, remember Job, and that little dispute that satan had with God over Job.

Satan wasn’t questioning whether Jesus was God but whether He was the son of God, because

God himself could never, for legal reasons full fill this redemption of mankind, it had to be a man, even Christ Himself was not considered a son until,
If Jesus was God HE would never have needed the Spirit of God.

For it was Christ, the Word of God that was sent to the Cross to redeem mankind as Jesus said,

For the new covenant was not made with men as it was with Israel, but with Christ, God the father made a new and everlasting covenant with Jesus His Son, whom signed that Covenant with His blood, which,

So in Christ is the new Covenant fulfilled and made complete in Christ, and Jesus having completed the task the Father had given Him returned to God, as it says,

And so His blood even today is still at work covering the sins of men,
So there is no more work for men except to believe, for Christ has fulfilled all the requirements to redeem men back to God. And God not only will HE never break a covenant, He certainly will not one with His own Son.

It's nice that you kept things rationale, and thus, applicable. You didn't base your theology on extraneous speculation, in order to justify the incomprehensible and absurd i.e. '...man's sin was so egregious that it required God to rectify...' Both predicates being false.
Like you said in another post, it a legal and forensic issue, that demands the utmost jurisprudence in order to truly justify both the Law and the Atonement, and ultimately, to glorify God. Such an unfounded proposition as a god-man saviour, brings nothing but utter defamation to God, and recklessness to its adherents.
Keeping the logistics of Christian theology sound and reasonable , brings glory to all involved, and thus, brings more people to the true Faith.

 

[mjrhealth]

It's nice that you kept things rationale, and thus, applicable. You didn't base your theology on extraneous speculation, in order to justify the incomprehensible and absurd i.e. '...man's sin was so egregious that it required God to rectify...' Both predicates being false.
Like you said in another post, it a legal and forensic issue, that demands the utmost jurisprudence in order to truly justify both the Law and the Atonement, and ultimately, to glorify God. Such an unfounded proposition as a god-man saviour, brings nothing but utter defamation to God, and recklessness to its adherents.
Keeping the logistics of Christian theology sound and reasonable , brings glory to all involved, and thus, brings more people to the true Faith.

When you wait upon the Lord long enough HE makes everything simple. Not a learned man and I am glad I am not.

 

[Enoch111]

Satan wasn’t questioning whether Jesus was God but whether He was the son of God...

To question whether Jesus was the Son of God was indeed to question whether He was God. For Jesus to claim to be the Son of God was the same as claiming to be God. Hence the unbelieving Jews called it blasphemy and sought to stone Christ.

JOHN 10: JEWS REJECT THE DEITY OF CHRIST
30 [Jesus said] I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

It would appear that you -- like the unbelieving Jews -- do not believe that Jesus is God, even though the Bible has made that crystal clear.

 

[mjrhealth]

To question whether Jesus was the Son of God was indeed to question whether He was God. For Jesus to claim to be the Son of God was the same as claiming to be God. Hence the unbelieving Jews called it blasphemy and sought to stone Christ.

JOHN 10: JEWS REJECT THE DEITY OF CHRIST
30 [Jesus said] I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

It would appear that you -- like the unbelieving Jews -- do not believe that Jesus is God, even though the Bible has made that crystal clear.

Believe is one thong to know is another, they got upset because HE claimed to be equal to God, there is only one God, God, Jesus is and always will be His son, the first of many Sons and the first of the new creation, God doesnt and never will change, for anyone.